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With the looming trend of classic MMOs relaunches on the rise, the truth will be revealed

2

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  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,323
    DMKano said:
    WoW relaunch will not go 2 ways - it will go exactly like everyone already predicts 

    Initially it will be a huge success, only to be followed by rapid decline.

    Also I think it's laughable to talk about WoW classic as some sort of a "challenging" game - please, can we all remember that classic wow was the ultimate casual MMORPG at launch?

    Now that all classic content is 100% known - the game will be way easier than how it was in 2004 when not everything was 100% already figured out.
    It will be fun to watch the launch of this. All these people acting like its the second coming. It's still Wow after all. And Blizzard will never admit to declining numbers for it. I'm betting they are banking on people returning to the new Wow after a few months of playing this classic.
    NorseGod
  • RavenRaven Member UncommonPosts: 2,004
    Hariken said:
    DMKano said:
    WoW relaunch will not go 2 ways - it will go exactly like everyone already predicts 

    Initially it will be a huge success, only to be followed by rapid decline.

    Also I think it's laughable to talk about WoW classic as some sort of a "challenging" game - please, can we all remember that classic wow was the ultimate casual MMORPG at launch?

    Now that all classic content is 100% known - the game will be way easier than how it was in 2004 when not everything was 100% already figured out.
    It will be fun to watch the launch of this. All these people acting like its the second coming. It's still Wow after all. And Blizzard will never admit to declining numbers for it. I'm betting they are banking on people returning to the new Wow after a few months of playing this classic.
    There is no doubt in my mind that the numbers will decline very quickly, there will be a lot of hype around it and launch will be a lot of fun with tons of people, but as people have noted the fact that everyone knows the game already, every thing will be min-maxed, content will be consumed much faster than usual.

    I think the key to them making this work as a business is the phases, every new phase will bring people back to consume that content, I suspect that once that has been exhausted they will likely move to TBC and beyond, with every new patch the servers will be full of people with a % of those being new subscribers and when they consume the content it is very likely a lot of them will turn into retail subscribers too.

    Now here is an alternative to classic that I think would be very interesting but will never happen:

    Blizzard forks World of Warcraft, pick an event in classic and call it a different timeline and re-invent WoW Classic with new content and a different approach that is more inline with the experience some of its core fanbase is looking for. Take the things that are universally liked from all the expansions they released and repackage it with different content and leave out everything people hated, they must have 15 years of data readily available.

    This would still be a massive gamble and no guarantees of any success but it would be a completely different take and if someone can make this work is Blizzard, because I think right now they are doomed to simply make a progression server and hope that they buy enough time and enough subscribers until their next project.

    image

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,008
    The numbers decline quickly after every MMO launch these days.. . so what will we actually be able to use to gauge success?  The percentage of drop off. . how long servers are open for?
    Palebane

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 1,000
    i think it's probably too many of the wrong type of people that are excited about this because of the hype. i keep seeing all these guild recruiments of guilds planning to rush through the game to start raiding. those people will be bored of classic in a month tops.
    Palebane

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,373
    edited August 23
    i think it's probably too many of the wrong type of people that are excited about this because of the hype. i keep seeing all these guild recruiments of guilds planning to rush through the game to start raiding. those people will be bored of classic in a month tops.
    i only hope blizz didn't remove the waterlords grind for MC, they wanted classic, give em classic ^^

    and is falling through the map still a feature for mining?

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,613
    edited August 23
    WoW classic will go the way the other classics seem to have gone, successful but not game changing. Ultimately this will go the way the MMO companies want not what the player want.

    For the players this is proof we need a new kind of MMO, that new school is not as good as they make it out to be. For the MMO companies what they want is another version of their games that players will lap up and what can be cheaper than an old version of the same game? Players will be enticed back or enticed to stay with WoW when they were thinking of leaving. It is win every which way you look for the company, but it proves little to them.

    I think players will be ultimately disappointed, at best the success of classics in MMO land will result in a bit of tweaking of the current versions of the game. Will it make designers think more about old school when they make a new MMO? Quite likely it will, but again only a few tweaks nothing major. 

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  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,644
    TEKK3N said:
    Most people got the MMORPGs wrong.

    MMORPGs were a niche and still are, it’s a nerdy hobby, it never meant to go mainstream.

    MMORPGs are the modern version of table top D&D, it’s a niche.
    And the last MMORPG was Vanilla WOW.

    WOW Classic is going to be a huge success because it will be played by this big niche who is waiting for a ‘real’ MMORPG for 10 years.

    And it will have longevity, because old MMORPGs were designed to be Social.
    It’s the players who are the main content of older MMORPGs, not the game mechanics per se.

    I played Vanilla for 2 years on private servers, and I would still be playing if they didn’t announce Classic.
    So saying that after a couple of months people will get bored with it, means you never understood what an MMORPG is all about.


    The only post in this thread worth a shit. So tired of this conversation from people who think they know what is best for everyone else. The true MMORPG was NEVER for the masses. Get over yourselves.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • RavenRaven Member UncommonPosts: 2,004
    edited August 23
    Viper482 said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Most people got the MMORPGs wrong.

    MMORPGs were a niche and still are, it’s a nerdy hobby, it never meant to go mainstream.

    MMORPGs are the modern version of table top D&D, it’s a niche.
    And the last MMORPG was Vanilla WOW.

    WOW Classic is going to be a huge success because it will be played by this big niche who is waiting for a ‘real’ MMORPG for 10 years.

    And it will have longevity, because old MMORPGs were designed to be Social.
    It’s the players who are the main content of older MMORPGs, not the game mechanics per se.

    I played Vanilla for 2 years on private servers, and I would still be playing if they didn’t announce Classic.
    So saying that after a couple of months people will get bored with it, means you never understood what an MMORPG is all about.


    The only post in this thread worth a shit. So tired of this conversation from people who think they know what is best for everyone else. The true MMORPG was NEVER for the masses. Get over yourselves.
    WoW Classic has no player driven content other than battlegrounds, there is only so much mileage you can get out of a fixed content pipeline where the content always comes from the developer. There are exceptions and I am sure there is a reasonable amount of people that would be happy to play on this fixed content forever and RP or whatever they do, but this is not business viable long term.

    Anyone that wants to play classic will be playing classic now, there won't be a healthy stream of new players beyond this launch to replace people leaving unless there is new content. I am ready to be proven wrong on this, but I suspect most people are spot on and once the nostalgia wears off and they dont have a content plan it will just slowly die until it is no longer economically viable to maintain. 

    I know this reality upsets some people but Blizzard is not going to keep paying a large dev team and server costs for 10k people.
    Viper482

    image

  • KabulozoKabulozo Member UncommonPosts: 882
    edited August 23
    No idea where WoW Classic being grindy came from. WoW was the most casual MMO of its time at launch. But as players of today just want no grind at all, it is understandable that WoW Classic is seen as a extreme hardcore MMO by players of today. Anything above 3 days to get level cap is grindy by todays player mentality.
    gunklacker
  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 3,622
    edited August 23
    It devolved from my perspective. Its all about action and progression and competition amongst peers. There is hardly any role playing or cooperation amongst players besides just a means to an end. I haven't had a meaningful friendship in an online game since early WoW. Part of it is me, im sure, but most communities do not seem as welcoming as my nostalgic glasses lead me to believe. I’ve never tried FF games and didn’t like LoTR online, though I’ve heard their communities are better than most.

    Cazriel said:
    In 1966 I went to the Beatles concert at the Hollywood Bowl in Los Angeles.  It was insane.  Utterly insane.  The screaming of the audience was so loud you could not hear any music at all.  The band was so far away, they were tiny.  But I was there.  

    It's the same for Classic WoW.  It doesn't matter whether it has legs.  It doesn't matter if it's legendary, nostalgic or boring.  It only matters that you're there.  And just like I have my stories and memories of going to a Beatles concert, gamers who play Classic, hit or miss, will remember launch day. 

    TL;DR:  Classic is a gaming event few people will miss.  
    Thats some serious FoMO marketing there. A common trend these days to lure weak minds to crappy games.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • KabulozoKabulozo Member UncommonPosts: 882
    edited August 23
    WoW classic will lose steam in a few months, or even less, people already know the content from 1 to 60, what took a few months for casuals in 2004 will take a few weeks to get cap level today. For faster/efficient players it will take a few days to get lvl cap.

    After that, only the hardcore raiders will stay.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,943



    My theory of the state of the MMO genre will be put to the ultimate test.


    My theory to explain the regression of the MMO genre over the years has been the understanding that the MMO games themselves now days haven’t really changed. It’s the Mentality of the players which is what really has changed.


    Over time player’s mentality has changed and evolved. But the MMO games themselves have stayed the same stagnant conservative models of yesteryear. In fact I believe the players and fan of the MMO genre themselves aren’t even consciously aware of this mentality change.


    So you're saying that people can grow and change over time and that their preferences and likes and interests can evolve as they get older?!?!?!?

    Additionally, as the genre grew in popularity it drew people of different mentalities than the original fans of the games?!?!?!

    And you came up with this theory all by yourself!

    You are truly wise.  >:)


    Palebane



  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,213
    edited August 23
    While I have made my opinion on classic servers quite often on these forums, thinking about it again I still have to say the servers will do a hell of a lot better than some people seem to think.

    This time around, the game has a crap ton of streamers promoting it, almost every big name streamer is interested in playing Classic as they all played WoW back in the day. That will show the game to an entirely new audience of people who may have never tried it (namely the younger audience, which whether or not you want that, is still a new crowd). Sure they may bounce off of it, but that's how the original boom happened, the ease of the game attracted a new audience that couldn't get into EQ or DAOC at the time. 

    Only time will tell if the servers population will drop off. I'm sure Blizzard has thought about this more than anyone could possibly think about, and they did make a statement talking about expansion servers if Vanilla did well enough, so it isn't too crazy to think they could retain quite a few players just by taunting newer expansion servers when the time comes.

    I have some friends who have never played WoW coming to try classic, just because they felt like it was too late in the game to get into it. I'm sure there is a crowd like that. 

    A lot of people still have this weird hate for WoW, it didn't kill the MMORPG genre, it just brought the masses to it. The genre itself would have stagnated with the niche community it had if WoW didn't bring new players originally. We aren't seeing the decline of a genre right now, we are seeing a small peak into what it would have been like without WoW's large community being around. 
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,644
    Raven said:
    Viper482 said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Most people got the MMORPGs wrong.

    MMORPGs were a niche and still are, it’s a nerdy hobby, it never meant to go mainstream.

    MMORPGs are the modern version of table top D&D, it’s a niche.
    And the last MMORPG was Vanilla WOW.

    WOW Classic is going to be a huge success because it will be played by this big niche who is waiting for a ‘real’ MMORPG for 10 years.

    And it will have longevity, because old MMORPGs were designed to be Social.
    It’s the players who are the main content of older MMORPGs, not the game mechanics per se.

    I played Vanilla for 2 years on private servers, and I would still be playing if they didn’t announce Classic.
    So saying that after a couple of months people will get bored with it, means you never understood what an MMORPG is all about.


    The only post in this thread worth a shit. So tired of this conversation from people who think they know what is best for everyone else. The true MMORPG was NEVER for the masses. Get over yourselves.
    WoW Classic has no player driven content other than battlegrounds, there is only so much mileage you can get out of a fixed content pipeline where the content always comes from the developer. There are exceptions and I am sure there is a reasonable amount of people that would be happy to play on this fixed content forever and RP or whatever they do, but this is not business viable long term.

    Anyone that wants to play classic will be playing classic now, there won't be a healthy stream of new players beyond this launch to replace people leaving unless there is new content. I am ready to be proven wrong on this, but I suspect most people are spot on and once the nostalgia wears off and they dont have a content plan it will just slowly die until it is no longer economically viable to maintain. 

    I know this reality upsets some people but Blizzard is not going to keep paying a large dev team and server costs for 10k people.

    So fucking what? There are enough people who want this that Blizzard went out of their way to make it happen. For THOSE PEOPLE it is what THEY want. This so-called community on MMORPG.com is one that loves to pop some corn in hopes they get to watch something fail simply because it is not their cup of tea. Who is saying WoW classic is going to be some huge hit to be the Rockstar of all MMO's? Literally no one. It is simply something many people wanted to see happen, and many people are going to be enjoying it in spite of people like you and others in this thread. If that bothers you or anyone else perhaps a therapist can help you with that. Once again, these classic servers are about none of you haters, they are about people who want that style of gameplay. Once again....get over yourselves. It's not about you.
    TEKK3N
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 1,000
    i actually think all those big name streamers will do more harm than good for the classic community. 
    PalebaneSteelhelmNorseGod

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • NeblessNebless Member UncommonPosts: 1,246
    With the looming trend of classic MMOs relaunches on the rise, 


    You say 'TREND' yet only talk about 1 game; WoW.  A single game is not a trend or are there others you just didn't mention?
    SovrathNorseGod

    SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO - GnH (beta tester) - SWToR - Neverwinter

  • ThupliThupli Member RarePosts: 1,261
    I think it will be great for 1-2 years, with initial drop off after the hype.

    What happens at the time to either go to TBC or do something different could be a game changer.

    IMO, going to TBC will divide classic... lots of folks didnt like TBC for a number of reasons, but then again there were mechanics that they added that would have helped classic.

    I think it would be best to do a 1.13.  Add content to classic wow continents, improve some specs, but dont let one class do everything!  Maybe level and stat cap gear, but give characters means of horizontal progression.  Streamline some of the gearing/stats so that loot tables arent beyond rediculous to be competitive.

    If they do that, "new content" to wow will actually pull people in to keep playing it.  I know I wont play TBC again, but I would do a new spin on classic that had a soft cap on the power/gear curve and focused  on content and story telling.
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,960
    edited August 23
    There are one thing that question me about clasic , you know Blizzard used to release sub number right ?
    I wonder if they will "release" sub number of clasic server lol . After all , it kind of a classic that had being lost for a while . hahaha

    For example , "there are x millions subs on classic servers"
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,529
    edited August 23
    smh at people thinking the old MMOs were some amazingly special thing.. they weren't. the games were janky at best and the UIs and mechanics were horrible. There is a reason those games aren't being made anymore. The people playing made it special. 

    Gamers and technology have changed dramatically since 2004.  WoW classic won't last because it's simply not 2004 anymore. Yes, this is in fact Nostalgia that Blizzard is selling to you. Fake Nostalgia. 

    This isn't a true Vanilla experience! they are selling you the perfect version of Vanilla which btw WASNT perfect, and that's the key ingredient. 

    The thing that made Vanilla what it was and the things people remember are the experiences caused by the jank of the times. The blizzard mistakes that players had to experience together. Bosses with broken health pools, trash mobs that one shot, Corrupted Blood bug (lol).. broken spells, op outdoor raid bosses, even the ability to kite Kazzak across the map.. these are all things that the first time it happens its cool, it helps to create the community. 

    Blizzard cant reproduce THIS no matter what mechanics they have in there.. the community will never be the same. I keep saying its not the game, its the community. It's true and we are all about to see it first hand. The community of WoW classic and the Community of Vanilla WoW are two completely different sets of people.

    Once people realize that "it feels different than expected" the nostalgia will wear off. Give it less than a year. 

    And also be clear to the people that are getting butthurt over someone's opinion... just because a person says they believe its going to fail doesn't mean they want it to fail, everyone is just stating the obvious about the nostalgia. It never lasts. Don't expect everyone to feel how you feel about it. Good that you are excited about it and to be honest if you are excited about it, you probably shouldn't be looking in these types of threads anyway, it's only going to upset you. 

    Also would like to point out this is only getting traction because its Blizzard. Many companies have tried to launch classic servers or even create a whole new "Classic MMO" styled game and failed. Blizzard is one of those companies that can do anything and have a maybe it'll stick maybe it won't attitude.. in the case of Classic WoW I don't think it'll stick very long..

    might need more glue. 

    kertinViper482
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,540
    People's interest in classic versions of games can be for many reasons, so you can't say that just because classic WoW succeeds that _______________ [fill in the blank with unsupported speculation].

    Maybe they are just curious? They're heard stories and want to see what it's like.

    Maybe they just want to start over afresh.  

    Maybe they want to see what some places look like before cataclysmic events changed the world.

    Maybe they Played WoW at launch and want to experience it again that way.

    Maybe it's just the latest thing. Something to do.

    Honestly I don't think this is support for, or any kind of indictment of, any particular kind of game.  There are way too many variables.




    Torval

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 436
    edited August 24
    Rhoklaw said:
    Retail WoW and Classic WoW aren't even remotely the same game. I have been trying to play Retail since resubbing for the first time since WotLK and I can't even recognize the game. Not just environments because of Cataclysm, but mechanics are completely different. Retail WoW is literally streamlined to the point that it's boring. Yes, theres a ton of new features like pet battles and other things, but the core mechanics from Vanilla WoW are nonexistent.

    I also don't see Classic WoW dying in a year because it offers a version of WoW that hasn't existeed for almost a decade outside of private servers. I'm going to have to disagree with a lot of whats been said in this thread, but that's just differing opinions. Everyone enjoys what they want and Classic WoW is for old school veterans who stopped playing before the launch of Cataclysm. I don't care if Retail players hate it or talk shit about it. It wasn't brought back for them, lol.
    You get it. I figured this out back in late 2009, early 2010, when I played Project 1999. Over the course of a year I figured out it wasn't rose tinted glasses for everyone. Some players genuinely played it because they liked the original gameplay mechanics--this includes the grouping/solo mechanics. Say you were to go back to 1999 and group the players into two groups: like the gameplay versus dislike it. The people in 2010 who're playing Project 1999 for the gameplay were the same players who liked EQ in 1999. The gist of this is that most players didn't. MOST players don't like Project 1999. Some still play it because of nostalgia or rose-tinted glasses, maybe even most of them.

    I think you explain it well. You said it best. "I'm going to have to disagree with a lot of whats been said in this thread, but that's just differing opinions. Everyone enjoys what they want..." It really is that simple! Some people don't wnat to accept that though. They just can't imagine that anybody would actually prefer gameplay in classic WoW (circa 2004-05). They've somehow  convinced themselves that nobody can enjoy it legitimately, and nobody ever did. It's like some sort of vast conspiracy, or delusion, and they're here to rescue us from our affliction.

    It's a small group of people, but ti exists. Same thing applies to Wurm Online. It's a small group of plaeyrs for sure. The total number is only a couple thousand or so. Only several hundred active peak during the day. However, this has been enough to keep the servers alive since 2011. Not everybody cares about whether something is remarkably successful. It may not even be profitable. Maybe it runs on heart or passion. Is that so surprising? Not everybody who makes a game is aiming for millions of dollars of revenue. (This is why a niche market exists. This is why Indie is a word, even though niche always existed. For example, Derek Smart was indie before it was used to describe games. I know. I played BC3000AD when it was new.)

    Hence, I believe games like EQ in 1999 will continue to exist in one form or another. What a lot of people mistakenly do is look for a commercial counterpart--with hundreds of thousands of players. Since they see none, they believe nobody likes that gameplay anymore. This causes them to berate anybody who says they still like that old gameplay. What they forget is a lot of people are still playing emulators, or still playing old games htey purchased on GOG or Steam. They might even be playing obscure Minecraft servers. For a small population of gamers, a commercial example isn't always necessary. However, I would suggest Wurm Online is like combining old UO and old EQ, so in fact it IS an example. There might be a few others. Even modern EQ is more niche than other modern MMORPGs.

    EDIT: Therre'e so many tiny MMORPGs too. They may not be exactly like EQ 1999, but they have some of the same old school game mechanics. A game doesn't have to be exactly the same for it to serve a purpose. For some players, that's enough. It's easy to miss things like this because there're an unbelievable number of games and MMORPGs--some of them are nearly invisible, and some are MUDs.

    What I"m saying is the people who liked EQ 1999 still exist--I'm not referring to Project 1999; I'm referring instead to the gameplay in EQ in 1999. They just get missed because they're such a small population. Indeed even young kids growing up, not yet young adults, might be the same way. It's not entirely generational, as is often asserted, especially concerning gameplay mechanics. (Grahpics tend to be strongly generational, but evne now, in 2019, there're games that're essentially textual novels with some visuals--and even a smaller gorpuing of text-only games.) It gets missed  becaue there' so many millions more youth who're unlike them--and they get all the attention. Sometimes the more things change the more they stay the same! Because it's all the more obvious some things don't...
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • SandmanjwSandmanjw Member UncommonPosts: 200
    All this nonsense about classic is just that nonsense. It is just the same as every other release. Hype follows fact that people find the same old same old. 

    There is no be all to end all, and my gosh, how i hope there never is...that would be so boring.

    Fact is players are looking for the philosopher stone of gaming...hint...there isn't one. Each and every game will get old to each and every person. 

    It is gaming people...stop looking for religious experience, and just look for some fun...you will all be happier. 
    kertin
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,607
    I cant talk about others, i only played WoW in 04, hit 60, raided once or twice, didnt like it and quit. Wasnt going to play a silly rat race of raiding to get good gear to do harder raids to get even better gear and ad nauseum.

    Im not interested in the gameplay anymore, until an MMO provides an amazing setting with true innovation and as sand boxy as possible, i will not be playing it.
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • ColonizerJColonizerJ Newbie CommonPosts: 14
    Well in some areas, Ragnarok Online is still a big hit. WoW would probably follow the same trend. :no_mouth:
  • Shooter564567Shooter564567 Member UncommonPosts: 31
    only relaunch that would have matter would be Asherons Call 1
    kertin
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