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Activision Blizzard and a whole lot of taxes.

245

Comments

  • sacredcow4sacredcow4 Member UncommonPosts: 240
    Gutlard said:
    I wish regular citizens had half as many loopholes to use....

    Gut Out!
    You do. It's on you to learn them and use them. Just because most people don't take time to understand and implement the rules doesn't make it a loophole. Learn the rules. Get better at the game. Calling it a loophole is just an excuse to be bad, like complaining that someone is using an OP class in a game when you are just as capable of picking that class.
    Iselinkenguru23Gutlard
     I've been here a while...
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,663
    Gutlard said:
    I wish regular citizens had half as many loopholes to use....

    Gut Out!

    Remember that US is run by corporations and their interests- corporations have more rights and protections than citizens.


    GdemamiAlverantMargraveAlBQuirky
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,168
    I knew there was another reason i was holding off moving to the US... Apart from the (in my opinion) muy loco head of state. You people have tax evasion turned in to a bloody hobby... Now i did read Ron Chernovs bio on Hamilton... So it does not shock me... But still. 

    With that said, i do agree that Activision-Blizzard as a company would be stupid to not do it. Amoral AF but also stupid. 
    AlBQuirky

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • DarkestOverlordDarkestOverlord Member UncommonPosts: 555
    Why pay the taxman he is evil :D
    Phry




  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,454
    edited August 22
    Why pay the taxman he is evil :D
    Evil? Why?

    One can argue about how much tax and who pays but are you suggesting that there should be no public funding for schools, police, the armed forces, roads etc. etc.  ?
    Sovrath
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    tawess said:
    I knew there was another reason i was holding off moving to the US... Apart from the (in my opinion) muy loco head of state. You people have tax evasion turned in to a bloody hobby... Now i did read Ron Chernovs bio on Hamilton... So it does not shock me... But still. 

    With that said, i do agree that Activision-Blizzard as a company would be stupid to not do it. Amoral AF but also stupid. 
    Lets be honest here, you were probably on the no entry list anyway  :p
    KyleranSovrathAlBQuirky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,514
    DMKano said:
    Gutlard said:
    I wish regular citizens had half as many loopholes to use....

    Gut Out!

    Remember that US is run by corporations and their interests- corporations have more rights and protections than citizens.


    Fortunately for me, I work for a US corporation.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • AlverantAlverant Member RarePosts: 1,147
    getting loop holes to prevent state to steal from you is normal and everyone does, expecting people pay they "dues" just because you belive the state is there to protect and help you don't make this any more right
    Taxes aren't theft. Corporations lying and scheming to avoid paying taxes while demanding things from the government IS theft. Taxes are your part of a contract you have with a government. If you don't want to honor that contract, you should leave.
    GdemamiNorseGod
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,144
    kjempff said:
    "The case of Activision Blizzard is just another example demonstrating the need for governments to introduce more effective measures to deal with royalty-based tax avoidance schemes."
    Tax avoidance is one of the side effects of the broken state of our current branch of capitalism.
    While I agree, tax avoidance is not tax evasion. So until those laws are changed these companies are well within their legal rights to use these "loop holes" to their financial advantage. What personally galls me is the fact that quite a few people champion the idea of closing these loop holes, but at the same time don't utter a peep about these governments complete lack of ability to spend these tax revenues responsibly.
    Who makes and changes those laws and who funded their election campaigns? :)
    Octagon7711MisterZebubAlBQuirky
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,168
    Phry said:
    tawess said:
    I knew there was another reason i was holding off moving to the US... Apart from the (in my opinion) muy loco head of state. You people have tax evasion turned in to a bloody hobby... Now i did read Ron Chernovs bio on Hamilton... So it does not shock me... But still. 

    With that said, i do agree that Activision-Blizzard as a company would be stupid to not do it. Amoral AF but also stupid. 
    Lets be honest here, you were probably on the no entry list anyway  :p
    Well that is always a risk, seeing how i tend to call the current leadership (if you can call it that) the tangerine in chief and said citrus has a ego like a soap-bubble.. large and fragile. So i am sure i am on some list at least. 
    NorseGod

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 2,935
    edited August 22
    DMKano said:
    Gutlard said:
    I wish regular citizens had half as many loopholes to use....

    Gut Out!

    Remember that US is run by corporations and their interests- corporations have more rights and protections than citizens.


    of course most politicians have a nice bank account of bribery they take from anyone willing to pay so comporations can buy the laws to they benefit, hence why politicians should be shot dead on spot when cought doing so, but that would be too hard, let's just do a slap on they hand and let they still run for the next election
    Gdemami
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • BrotherMaynardBrotherMaynard Member UncommonPosts: 91
    Phry said:

    Sounds a lot like the EU, and they haven't had their accounts signed off on for  how long now?  Never understimate the level of government corruption when it comes to money. :/
    This is a deliberately distorted version of the budget procedure that some UK tabloids and Nigel Farage have been using for years (and it seems to have worked particularly well on UK voters). As Farage has also been a Member of the European Parliament, he knows the procedure very well and thus this story of his is a deliberate lie (and not an honest mistake or lack of knowledge).

    If you are really interested in how the EU budget works or plan to be giving examples from this area, you might want to learn about it first - and Nigel Farage and his lies (such as this one about "EU haven't had their accounts signed off") really are not the best reference material.

    The budget discharge of the EU is given annually by the European Parliament, culminating in a plenary vote, and so far there has been no case when this did not happen.

    The absurd stories circulated by the British tabloids and then happily re-used by some politicians to stoke fires are almost endless. Don't fall into their trap.

    NorseGodgervaise1
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,455
    edited August 23
    laserit said:
    Take this from someone who pays more tax in one year than the everyday working man will pay in a lifetime.

    The less that these companies pay in taxes using loopholes and offshore tax havens the more YOU will pay in taxes.
    Then you would know that your personal income taxes are for servicing the interest of the money borrowed from the Federal Reserve, alone. I mean, I know my taxes last year were only more than the average national household salary, not as much as your taxes, but even I knew that.

    Your taxes will not go up because Blizzard was within the law.

    You're basically arguing the equivalent of raising the price on goods to offset Shrink Loss. Taxes don't work that way. Gov budgets are based on projections. They are aware of loopholes, because they put them there.

    Edit: I assumed you were in the US. I don't know about you leafs tax system. But I bet you have a central private bank like ours.
    Post edited by NorseGod on
    Pemmin
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,455
    kjempff said:


    with I tells you more, if most then half of out tax was not spend keeping the fat politician wellfed, then maybe we could come to a middle ground, but what I see is people without kids paying for other people kids, people without cars paying for others cars, and working people paying for lazy fucks who don't want to work
    And that's why I do all I can to deny them, even if it's a penny. It's mine.
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • ronanxronanx Member UncommonPosts: 26
    edited August 22
    Blizzard is a corporation and find loopholes to dodge taxes, what else is new? The reason they can get away with it is because politicians are corrupt as is the system they govern in.
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,455
    Alverant said:

    Taxes aren't theft. Corporations lying and scheming to avoid paying taxes while demanding things from the government IS theft. Taxes are your part of a contract you have with a government. If you don't want to honor that contract, you should leave.
    What contract?
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,166
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    Take this from someone who pays more tax in one year than the everyday working man will pay in a lifetime.

    The less that these companies pay in taxes using loopholes and offshore tax havens the more YOU will pay in taxes.
    There was a famous Canadian politician, as you know @laserit , who coined the phrase "Corporate Welfare Bums." The rest of us are all subsidizing these bums with our taxes.
    I wouldn't be able to tell you about big multinationals but small business pays plenty of taxes. In general, how I make my tax bill smaller is by deferring profits from a good year and spreading it into a not as good year and by spending/reinvesting. I took full advantage for this fiscal year of a 100% write off on new machinery that the Trudeau government gave to manufacturers to compete with Trumps corporate tax break.

    I spent $1,100,000.00 usd on a new machine. Now I don't get any money from the government, I just get to pay less tax on my profits.

    AlBQuirky

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,166
    edited August 22
    NorseGod said:
    laserit said:
    Take this from someone who pays more tax in one year than the everyday working man will pay in a lifetime.

    The less that these companies pay in taxes using loopholes and offshore tax havens the more YOU will pay in taxes.
    Then you would know that your personal income taxes are for servicing the interest of the money borrowed from the Federal Reserve, alone. I mean, I know my taxes last year are more than the average national household salary, not as much as your taxes, but even I knew that.

    Your taxes will not go up because Blizzard was within the law.

    You're basically arguing the equivalent of raising the price on goods to cover Shrink Loss. Taxes don't work that way. Gov budgets are based on projections. They are aware of loopholes, because they put them there.
    I'm in Canada so I pay the Federal Reserve diddly squat.

    Your government is currently running close to a Trillion Dollar deficit. The government needs revenue to operate. When they don't collect enough revenue they either have to:

    A: borrow more money

    B: raise taxes

    If businesses and/or individuals are not paying their fair share than everyone else pays more.

    Period
    Gutlardgervaise1GdemamiAlBQuirky

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,144
    laserit said:
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    Take this from someone who pays more tax in one year than the everyday working man will pay in a lifetime.

    The less that these companies pay in taxes using loopholes and offshore tax havens the more YOU will pay in taxes.
    There was a famous Canadian politician, as you know @laserit , who coined the phrase "Corporate Welfare Bums." The rest of us are all subsidizing these bums with our taxes.
    I wouldn't be able to tell you about big multinationals but small business pays plenty of taxes. In general, how I make my tax bill smaller is by deferring profits from a good year and spreading it into a not as good year and by spending/reinvesting. I took full advantage for this fiscal year of a 100% write off on new machinery that the Trudeau government gave to manufacturers to compete with Trumps corporate tax break.

    I spent $1,100,000.00 usd on a new machine. Now I don't get any money from the government, I just get to pay less tax on my profits.

    I don't think David Lewis was talking about you :)

    He was taking a shot at multinationals with their usual tax avoidance shenanigans who got special tax free deals from federal and provincial governments. And that was in the '70s when life was good.
    laserit
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    Iselin said:
    kjempff said:
    "The case of Activision Blizzard is just another example demonstrating the need for governments to introduce more effective measures to deal with royalty-based tax avoidance schemes."
    Tax avoidance is one of the side effects of the broken state of our current branch of capitalism.
    While I agree, tax avoidance is not tax evasion. So until those laws are changed these companies are well within their legal rights to use these "loop holes" to their financial advantage. What personally galls me is the fact that quite a few people champion the idea of closing these loop holes, but at the same time don't utter a peep about these governments complete lack of ability to spend these tax revenues responsibly.
    Who makes and changes those laws and who funded their election campaigns? :)
    Yep. "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

    "You have kept me at your beck and call for fifteen years. I shall never again do what you demand of me. By every rule of single combat, from this moment your life belongs to me. Is that not correct? Then I shall simply declare you dead. In all of your dealings with me, you'll do me the courtesy to conduct yourself as a dead man. I have submitted to your notions of honor long enough. You will now submit to mine."

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,455
    laserit said:
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:

    I wouldn't be able to tell you about big multinationals but small business pays plenty of taxes. In general, how I make my tax bill smaller is by deferring profits from a good year and spreading it into a not as good year and by spending/reinvesting. I took full advantage for this fiscal year of a 100% write off on new machinery that the Trudeau government gave to manufacturers to compete with Trumps corporate tax break.

    I spent $1,100,000.00 usd on a new machine. Now I don't get any money from the government, I just get to pay less tax on my profits.

    I think you are missing the point. The government didn't give you money, they took less of it from you because you took advantage of tax laws. That's YOUR money that you get to keep, not the Gov.

    I know it's popular to call corporations evil, but would you have still bought that machine if you couldn't write it off? If so, what would you cut to pay for it? Sometimes the answer is job(s).

    My clients are local small/medium businesses. I know for a fact that the money they can save in taxes goes to hiring another employee or buying better equipment. I don't do work for national corporations, because I figure, they can afford to hire somebody to do my job, full time. Whereas, small businesses cannot.

    My business gets sharp spikes four times a year, like clockwork.

    1. After Apr 15th (US taxes are due, depending on business structure), because they don't know how much money they have left over to invest back into the business. (not knowing how much money you have is weird, but ok)

    2. Just before Summer tourist season. (I'm indirectly effected by this, but if their business is doing good, I'm doing good).

    3. Just before Ski tourist season. (see #2)

    4. End of year closeouts for writeoffs. (My schedule is already filled for the end of the year and I have to figure out if I can afford a great salary to hire another person so that they stay long-term) 

    Half of my business' high dollar projects depend on other businesses' taxes. If they can't reinvest, then I'm in trouble. Did I plan it that way? No. It's a huge risk I didn't foresee when I first started. But to me, it's pretty clear that lower/less taxes create jobs and grow businesses.

    So that's just me. Now think about 85% of businesses in the US are small businesses.
    laseritGdemamiAlBQuirky
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,911
    God Bless ATVI
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 909
    Gutlard said:
    I wish regular citizens had half as many loopholes to use....

    Gut Out!
    You do. It's on you to learn them and use them. Just because most people don't take time to understand and implement the rules doesn't make it a loophole. Learn the rules. Get better at the game. Calling it a loophole is just an excuse to be bad, like complaining that someone is using an OP class in a game when you are just as capable of picking that class.
    Oh you're being serious? I use tax shelters as much as I can, but with my middle class income, yeah that's on me of course, I pay my fair share and have my W4's set up to always get money back. I wish I had enough to max out 401K/403B contributions pre-tax, and 529's etc, but I don't.

    Then you have these companies:

    https://itep.org/notadime/

    That would be like me making my income, not paying taxes and STILL getting a refund. Our US infrastructure is crumbling, our military IS NOT using its money to gear out our soldiers for proper safety, and when they get done damaging our soldiers mentally/physically, the VA is too underfunded to get them the help they DESERVE. We don't take care of our elderly the way they deserve, our mentally sick the way they need, and our children the way we should.

    Our power grids are old, our sewer lines are old, our utilities are outdated. Florida floods all the time I hear, and they're rushing to keep cities from flooding but not getting the money they need, because there's no money. It's not trickling down the way it's supposed to. Imagine that.

    But I agree with you on one point for Americans. We need to get better at 'the game.' We need to show up. We need to vote. We need to help out in our local communities. We need to hold politicians accountable for their lies and low down dirty bullshit. We need to pay attention to the money and follow where it's going and shine a light on areas where it's misused, which seems to be everywhere all the time.

    Gut Out!



    NorseGodAlBQuirky

    What, me worry?

  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 909
    NorseGod said:
    laserit said:
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:

    I wouldn't be able to tell you about big multinationals but small business pays plenty of taxes. In general, how I make my tax bill smaller is by deferring profits from a good year and spreading it into a not as good year and by spending/reinvesting. I took full advantage for this fiscal year of a 100% write off on new machinery that the Trudeau government gave to manufacturers to compete with Trumps corporate tax break.

    I spent $1,100,000.00 usd on a new machine. Now I don't get any money from the government, I just get to pay less tax on my profits.

    I think you are missing the point. The government didn't give you money, they took less of it from you because you took advantage of tax laws. That's YOUR money that you get to keep, not the Gov.

    I know it's popular to call corporations evil, but would you have still bought that machine if you couldn't write it off? If so, what would you cut to pay for it? Sometimes the answer is job(s).

    My clients are local small/medium businesses. I know for a fact that the money they can save in taxes goes to hiring another employee or buying better equipment. I don't do work for national corporations, because I figure, they can afford to hire somebody to do my job, full time. Whereas, small businesses cannot.

    My business gets sharp spikes four times a year, like clockwork.

    1. After Apr 15th (US taxes are due, depending on business structure), because they don't know how much money they have left over to invest back into the business. (not knowing how much money you have is weird, but ok)

    2. Just before Summer tourist season. (I'm indirectly effected by this, but if their business is doing good, I'm doing good).

    3. Just before Ski tourist season. (see #2)

    4. End of year closeouts for writeoffs. (My schedule is already filled for the end of the year and I have to figure out if I can afford a great salary to hire another person so that they stay long-term) 

    Half of my business' high dollar projects depend on other businesses' taxes. If they can't reinvest, then I'm in trouble. Did I plan it that way? No. It's a huge risk I didn't foresee when I first started. But to me, it's pretty clear that lower/less taxes create jobs and grow businesses.

    So that's just me. Now think about 85% of businesses in the US are small businesses.
    How have your tax breaks been? My brother owns a small business and that was a major selling point of POTUS. My brother hasn't seen much as far as I hear. Large corporations may only account for the other 15%, or a smaller portion of that, but how much money do they get to keep? 85%+?

    Banks are always a great example. US CEO's got bail outs right? The government just pissed all that money away and Banks seemed to go right back to doing the same bullshit that got us in our mess in the first place. And those CEO's got bonuses with our bail out money, a slap on the wrist, a shaken finger in their face, and what 1 or 2 CEO's got short jail time?

    The same thing happened in Europe and those CEO's went to prison for a long time. 

    WTF are we doing here?

    Gut out!
    NorseGodGdemamiAlBQuirky

    What, me worry?

  • OldSchoolGamerOldSchoolGamer Member UncommonPosts: 229
    edited August 23
    Old news.  Activision Blizzard is getting it's just reward right now with all the taxes they HAVE to pay to the Swiss government for their purchase of King.  They can't get out of that one.  https://seekingalpha.com/article/4239233-activision-blizzards-coming-370-million-dollar-tax-liability

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