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Game admins cheating in F2P/P2W games, to milk players (whales) for all they can.

mrmelonimrmeloni Member UncommonPosts: 236
edited August 2019 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
I've heard about this happening in a certain major F2P/P2W game, which I shall not name. I think this has happened to me.

There are F2P/P2W web games, many of such are constantly advertised in various places such as Facebook, even on here. The game typically has hundreds of servers with new servers opening every 3-5 days. Many older servers are barren.

It works like this, when a new server launches, there are new server launch events specific for that server, typically a week long. Each day for 7 days there is a set of rewards for the top players in different aspects of character development.

The No. 1 reward is typically very valuable and sought after. No 2 and No 3 arn't bad either, below that it's not so great. You're highly unlikely to make the top 3, especially not the sought after 1st place rewards if you're not throwing money at the game.

In the game I was playing, some of the rewards are extremely powerful and some of these are new server rewards only. Meaning if you miss it, you cannot ever get it unless you start again on a new server.

So, I heard a rumour in the game that when someone is spending considerably and trying to achieve number 1, the player is flagged as a whale by the admins. The admins will create a character on the new server to compete with the 'whale'. The admin character will spend enough real money to take on the competitive player in order to make the 'whale' spend more money in order to keep their place as number 1 and get the best rewards. But the admin isn't really spending their own money on this.

The admin will spend as much money as is needed to keep up with or get just ahead of the whale, to make the whale need to spend more. Unlikely to have realised he is being conned, the whale will spend more money as needed to try to prevent the admin from taking the rewards.

I wasn't sure if to believe it, but then this exact thing happened to me. I even had an experience that all but proves this is really going on. Which I won't go into else I will be identified by them if they see this.

Anyway, this player who was trying to beat me for the top rewards came to the server a day or two late. He spent much more money than me, and as a consequence he took some of the top rewards that I was aiming for. He also took the reward for "most money spent" which gives huge bonuses. I realised what was going on and so did not try to outspend him. In fact I didn't spend any further money.

This admin character who was competing with me was a strange one. He didn't seem to really play the game very much. He just spent a lot of money and then quit once the new server event was over. Based on the rewards he received, I can see that he spent over $500 in 1 week. Then he stops playing after the 7th day.

It's very strange that he would spend $500 in a week and then stop playing. His character name was exactly generic, as generic as names get. I suppose if I had kept spending money he'd still be playing?

I haven't described what the big give away was that revealed to me that admins are really milking players with this con. It just confirms what I already suspect was happening.

It makes sense that these companies would be doing this. They are looking to maximise profit and these games are ripe for this sort of thing. They keep opening new servers every few days offering all these great rewards in new server events because that's the best way to tempt people to spend. Once spenders are identified, they will have their own guys compete against them to milk the spender for as much as they can.

Is it illegal? No. But it shouldn't be allowed. Is it morally wrong? Yeah it's rotten and players have no idea that they're being conned. They will have no doubt identified that doing this increases their profits.




GdemamiDrunkWolfUngoodSlyLoK
«1

Comments

  • vegetableoilvegetableoil Member RarePosts: 768
    the problems seems you can't prove that he was the admin, So you question if the guy is legit or not and started getting suspicious, but most p2w games has people who spend money to win without doing the hard work $500 is actually not much I have seen people spend $80k. Just don't be competitive you will feel much better or if you are suspicious that it is the admin, just leave the game there are plenty other games. if they keep opening new server and leaving the old one every 7 days, then there are no community in it why bother playing it.
  • mrmelonimrmeloni Member UncommonPosts: 236
    edited August 2019
    the problems seems you can't prove that he was the admin, So you question if the guy is legit or not and started getting suspicious, but most p2w games has people who spend money to win without doing the hard work $500 is actually not much I have seen people spend $80k. Just don't be competitive you will feel much better or if you are suspicious that it is the admin, just leave the game there are plenty other games. if they keep opening new server and leaving the old one every 7 days, then there are no community in it why bother playing it.
    It's actually worse than 7 days. They open new server every 3 days. I know it's admin. Can't go into specifics but it's smoking gun proof.


    Post edited by mrmeloni on
    Gdemami
  • moshramoshra Member RarePosts: 400
    I question why anyone would play a game when one of the goals is to win a "most money spent" reward.
    IselinCaffynatedWaanlaserit[Deleted User]KyleranDakeru
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    Unless it is a small company, with employees that have little to do, it is highly unlikely that this is being done by the company. It just isnt worth the time/effort to do this when it happens naturally by game design.  I have seen this many times, and there are always so many people fighting to outspend each other that there is no point trying to interfere with them.
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,766
    This is pretty normal in Chinese browser based (and non browser too, but I've seen it a lot in browser) MMORPG's. The server rotations are like you said, to lure whales to new servers in hopes to get number 1 and compete. It's almost impossible to get top positions without spending thousands as it's always whales. They never shut down old servers either which is strange, and they always have like 200+ servers with new ones each week. But I've never heard of admins doing that, that's a new thing to me. Maybe it's true, but it would be super hard to prove. 
    mrmeloni
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    I had a guy follow me around and compete with me to induce me to spend more money in the cash shop. Turns out it was Elvis. The blue suede shoes gave him away.
    [Deleted User]Kyleran

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,701
    edited August 2019
    let me see if i understand this.

    you play a game where the goal is to spend as much money as possible in a week to get a item. and if u dont get it, go to a new server that just opened and try again ( rinse repeat ). and older servers are empty because everybody is trying to join the new servers to get the items?

    i am in the wrong business
    RidelynnGroqstrongWaanAriesTiger[Deleted User]Kyleran
  • mrmelonimrmeloni Member UncommonPosts: 236
    moshra said:
    I question why anyone would play a game when one of the goals is to win a "most money spent" reward.
    I wasn't aware it was like this when I started playing. Been many years since I played a cash shop game. I haven't spent any more since realising what the game is really about.

  • mrmelonimrmeloni Member UncommonPosts: 236
    edited August 2019
    Unless it is a small company, with employees that have little to do, it is highly unlikely that this is being done by the company. It just isnt worth the time/effort to do this when it happens naturally by game design.  I have seen this many times, and there are always so many people fighting to outspend each other that there is no point trying to interfere with them.


    There's not many people on each server. I guess that's what happens when you have hundreds of servers. I think on the server I played on, after the event week was over, there was only about 5 players left.

    Think about this. If you have a game where you need people to compete with each other to get them to spend more money, but it's not happening naturally as well as it could due to low amount of players, wouldn't it be profitable to have someone who works for the company make characters to compete against people who they've identified as spenders in the new server race?

    They open new servers every 3 days, so I've been tracking the progress of the new server races on those servers and I've noticed a common theme. You'll have either multiple big spenders on a server or none at all. That's exactly what you'd expect to see if this was taking place. Because they won't bother trying to compete on a new server if there's no whale to milk.
  • mrmelonimrmeloni Member UncommonPosts: 236
    DrunkWolf said:
    let me see if i understand this.

    you play a game where the goal is to spend as much money as possible in a week to get a item. and if u dont get it, go to a new server that just opened and try again ( rinse repeat ). and older servers are empty because everybody is trying to join the new servers to get the items?

    i am in the wrong business


    I don't know why older servers are empty. They're not all empty, but many are. I guess that's just the natural order of things when you open new servers every 3 days, any new players will go to new servers meaning that once older server players have quit there is no new players to replace them = barren server.
  • mrmelonimrmeloni Member UncommonPosts: 236
    edited August 2019
    This is pretty normal in Chinese browser based (and non browser too, but I've seen it a lot in browser) MMORPG's. The server rotations are like you said, to lure whales to new servers in hopes to get number 1 and compete. It's almost impossible to get top positions without spending thousands as it's always whales. They never shut down old servers either which is strange, and they always have like 200+ servers with new ones each week. But I've never heard of admins doing that, that's a new thing to me. Maybe it's true, but it would be super hard to prove. 

    Yep, it's exactly that sort of game. Asian browser mmo. Server rotations designed to lure whales in the hopes of getting powerful new server rewards.

    If you fall for this and get your credit card out, you'll be identified as a whale. By the next day some new guy with a generic name will have appeared late on your server, outspending you and challenging you for the rewards you thought you were going to get.

    In my experience, these generic named challengers only appear on the server AFTER a day or 2, once you have got out your credit card. It's like I said, if you check other new servers that just launched, you'll have a few players who are spending, competing for top spot, or none at all.

    These sorts of games are bad enough already. They are designed to lure people to spend as much as possible by giving you ever more potent rewards the more you spend. And this specific type of game makes it into a competition, with extremely powerful rewards for the "winners".

    You think you're competing against another player, when in fact it's an employee of the game company, who isn't really spending his own money to compete with you. It's just you who's losing money.

    It doesn't surprise me at all that underhanded tricks are being used by companies who run such games to increase profits. It's exactly what I'd expect from them in fact. These are Asian based companies looking for profit by marketing their web game in the West. It's actually shocking that anyone would think they're not doing this. They want your money and this helps them get more of it.

    It's an absolute scandal.
    Post edited by mrmeloni on
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584
    and you figure this out just now?

    I knew games who a gm was using his gm char invul, to tank raid bosses for his guild get the drops, or gms using other gm powers like summoning mobs to make his guild get loot and lvl faster.

    in one game they fired the gm but the damage was already done and they just fired him as a way to keep things quiet
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,351
    The moral of the story is that if a game opens a single new server every few days, that's one of the surest signs there is that the game is terrible and you should stay away.  The handful of games with an enormous and rapidly growing playerbase that requires a lot of new servers (think of WoW shortly after launch) tend to open them in batches, not one at a time.

    If you're young and new to online gaming, I could understand not recognizing what is going on.  But please, don't repeat the mistake.  That only encourages companies to try to scam other people like how they got you, instead of putting their effort into making games that are actually good.
    Dakeru
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,256
    Ha , they had being caught cheating since ever we having online gaming . Now you know about it ?
    There are alots trick and trap behind the scene to force player to spend more . Even in P2P game without cash shop it happen too .
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 932
    Unfortunately it will continue until players themselves make it stop by not buying anything unless they change the monetization to something else like cosmetics for example. 
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 932
    I don't mind low p2w like a small xp and drop advantage, but the power creep p2w I can't tolerate anymore. 
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,530
    Kudos on the sleuth work, and you are 100% correct, no one spends $500 in a week and just vanishes.. total con job, and to be honest, this is a new low.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,223
    edited August 2019
    I pretty much dont play browser, mobile, or games from south east asia. Because they are complete bullshit, i fell for some of this shit 7+ years ago and only spent less than $100 a few times. Now i dont bother playing games that have cheesy silly mechanics.

    If i pay for a free game, it is usually to buy skins when i reach certain goals, like platinum rank in sc 2 or lvl 90+ in path of exile.
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,605
    Maybe you shouldn't spend that much money in a crappy web game in the first place.

    I play niche pay 2 win games.  Quite a bunch of people spend 500$ a month.

    If the game is so terrible there are only 1 whale on the server, you probably shouldn't play it.
  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,903
    edited August 2019
    Why would you bother with Chinese style servers, in any game?   It's so pointless to play a server that's only going to be around for a month.  (EDIT: well effectively be around for that long, since players migrate).

    That's pretty much less MMO than even GW1 in my opinion, at least in how players actually play.   Migrating like cattle from new server to new server, while leaving behind your characters and similar defeats the point of having some level of persistence (even though most newer MMOs are pretty weak at persistent mechanics).

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • mrmelonimrmeloni Member UncommonPosts: 236
    Quizzical said:
    The moral of the story is that if a game opens a single new server every few days, that's one of the surest signs there is that the game is terrible and you should stay away.  The handful of games with an enormous and rapidly growing playerbase that requires a lot of new servers (think of WoW shortly after launch) tend to open them in batches, not one at a time.

    If you're young and new to online gaming, I could understand not recognizing what is going on.  But please, don't repeat the mistake.  That only encourages companies to try to scam other people like how they got you, instead of putting their effort into making games that are actually good.
    I'm not young, but had no experience with this kind of game. Learned from it. I realised quickly what was going on and took a hard stance to not give them a penny more. Because I don't want to reward them for this unscrupulous activity.

    It's as I said, as a result of my ceasing to deposit, the admin character beat me to some of the new server rewards, and also beat me to the 'highest total deposit' reward. I didn't spend any more money, and funnily enough, the other guy all but stopped playing.

    Ungood
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,059
    Sounds like Wartune.
  • mrmelonimrmeloni Member UncommonPosts: 236
    edited August 2019
    AAAMEOW said:
    Maybe you shouldn't spend that much money in a crappy web game in the first place.

    I play niche pay 2 win games.  Quite a bunch of people spend 500$ a month.

    If the game is so terrible there are only 1 whale on the server, you probably shouldn't play it.

    It wasn't me who spent $500 in a week, it was the suspected admin character.

    anemo said:
    Why would you bother with Chinese style servers, in any game?   It's so pointless to play a server that's only going to be around for a month.  (EDIT: well effectively be around for that long, since players migrate).

    That's pretty much less MMO than even GW1 in my opinion, at least in how players actually play.   Migrating like cattle from new server to new server, while leaving behind your characters and similar defeats the point of having some level of persistence (even though most newer MMOs are pretty weak at persistent mechanics).

    I wasn't aware of the mechanics of it at the time. I saw a new server open up 2-3 days after I just started a new one and then another new one 3 days later again. Since then several more have opened. It's every 3 days or so.

    I agree it's a rotten system to keep making money from uninformed whales who do not understand what is going on.

    But what really gets me is them basically fleecing anyone who deposits for as much as they can by having admins create characters to compete against them to make them spend more money to be number 1 to get the sick rewards. If you don't get these rewards, you may as well consider your deposits wasted and start again on a new server. Where they'll likely do the same thing to you again.
  • AriesTigerAriesTiger Member UncommonPosts: 444
    DrunkWolf said:
    let me see if i understand this.

    you play a game where the goal is to spend as much money as possible in a week to get a item. and if u dont get it, go to a new server that just opened and try again ( rinse repeat ). and older servers are empty because everybody is trying to join the new servers to get the items?

    i am in the wrong business
    I know right? All those wasted hours of life and for what? Another rinse and repeat LOL.
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