True. I’ll try to find the time. There is an obvious need for such a common sense book. Maybe I can Kickstart it...
Good idea. Thanks!
[mod edit]
Have we sunk to the “I know you are. What am I?” part of the discussion already?
On a serious note. I think your sarcasm actually spawned a great idea. I think The Armchair Developer’s Common Sense Guide to Game Development “ would make a perfect vehicle for Kickstarter.
Wonder if some of these Crowdfunded devs would kick in for Lessons Learned chapters?
Post edited by Vaross on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
True. I’ll try to find the time. There is an obvious need for such a common sense book. Maybe I can Kickstart it...
Good idea. Thanks!
Yeah, go ahead, there is never enough people to laugh at that make fools of themselves...
Have we sunk to the “I know you are. What am I?” part of the discussion already?
On a serious note. I think your sarcasm actually spawned a great idea. I think The Armchair Developer’s Common Sense Guide to Game Development “ would make a perfect vehicle for Kickstarter.
Wonder if some of these Crowdfunded devs would kick in for Lessons Learned chapters?
If you wrote it as a sort of lampoon of forums and video game players then you wouldn't need them.
It's sort of like that "joke" book, "How to Lose a Guy in 10 days." Was just a joke but one that was funny enough for me to get it for a friend as she was sort of the poster child for its contents. Others saw the humor and yadda, yadda, yadda, it spawned a movie.
Lesson? Go write it!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Hatefull said: Alpha is still systems development, in beta, all systems are more or less complete it's just tweaking and making sure they work together.
...armchair dev manual quote.
If you have a copy can you send it on to these Crowdfunding devs? Seems they all could use a dose of common sense. Also, please highlight chapter 2: Gantt Charts, Their Uses and Limitations.
I found it most useful.
Chapter 6: "Promised Delivery Dates are for Suckers" is also very enlightening.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's sort of like that "joke" book, "How to Lose a Guy in 10 days."
...except this ain't any "joke".
True. With hundreds of millions of crowd funding dollars committed it certainly is no laughing matter, especially if these folks never actually deliver.
As the Joker would say, "Why aren't you laughing?" (From the Killing Joke)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Meh, wake me up when the game releases. Naxxramas will probably have been cleared in Classic WoW by then.
I pledged $35 IIRC, and fortunately decided early on not to spend a lot of time actively following this game. I just look it up every few months and every time find it’s still got a long way to go.
Wow, we still have people saying/asking this years later eh? MJ/City State Entertainment have been VERY clear their vision of a Beta aligns more closely with original mmo beta testing, which was done much earlier in development and involved a game needing more than a little polish and balance. Rather than the modern interpretation of Beta which has been used a pre-launch/early access cash grab maneuver for unfinished games.
Haxus Council Member 21 year MMO veteran PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Wow, we still have people saying/asking this years later eh? MJ/City State Entertainment have been VERY clear their vision of a Beta aligns more closely with original mmo beta testing, which was done much earlier in development and involved a game needing more than a little polish and balance. Rather than the modern interpretation of Beta which has been used a pre-launch/early access cash grab maneuver for unfinished games.
Too bad they adopted the modern definition of "18 months"
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Wow, we still have people saying/asking this years later eh? MJ/City State Entertainment have been VERY clear their vision of a Beta aligns more closely with original mmo beta testing, which was done much earlier in development and involved a game needing more than a little polish and balance. Rather than the modern interpretation of Beta which has been used a pre-launch/early access cash grab maneuver for unfinished games.
Too bad they adopted the modern definition of "18 months"
Lol ya. Of all the parts of the game and its development (which I follow closely), the one thing I don't trust their capabilities is in publishing realistic timelines.
I think the game will be good, within scope, and deliver the gameplay and features they promised with the spirit of the foundational principles being followed.
Just will keep on taking longer than they say it will, as it has since 2013.
Meh, wake me up when the game releases. Naxxramas will probably have been cleared in Classic WoW by then.
I pledged $35 IIRC, and fortunately decided early on not to spend a lot of time actively following this game. I just look it up every few months and every time find it’s still got a long way to go.
Like the ideas behind the game, though.
Honestly this is the best approach.
For anyone who cant handle the boring minutiae of the weekly updates, just wait til you hear about it through gaming media or your friends cause they saw something really cool.
Wow, we still have people saying/asking this years later eh? MJ/City State Entertainment have been VERY clear their vision of a Beta aligns more closely with original mmo beta testing, which was done much earlier in development and involved a game needing more than a little polish and balance. Rather than the modern interpretation of Beta which has been used a pre-launch/early access cash grab maneuver for unfinished games.
Too bad they adopted the modern definition of "18 months"
Lol ya. Of all the parts of the game and its development (which I follow closely), the one thing I don't trust their capabilities is in publishing realistic timelines.
I think the game will be good, within scope, and deliver the gameplay and features they promised with the spirit of the foundational principles being followed.
Just will keep on taking longer than they say it will, as it has since 2013.
Meh, wake me up when the game releases. Naxxramas will probably have been cleared in Classic WoW by then.
I pledged $35 IIRC, and fortunately decided early on not to spend a lot of time actively following this game. I just look it up every few months and every time find it’s still got a long way to go.
Like the ideas behind the game, though.
Honestly this is the best approach.
For anyone who cant handle the boring minutiae of the weekly updates, just wait til you hear about it through gaming media or your friends cause they saw something really cool.
That's the problem. I've been waiting for six years for someone to tell me, media or otherwise, that they saw something really cool. Six years in and it's still a hodge podge of basic systems.
If you've really been gaming and beta testing since the 90s, then you should also know that what passes for alpha/beta these days could be anything.
Who the what now? Since when did people stop caring about what words mean? How can you feel that and then come to a place of words and give a shit about what anyone says? What a load of BS. Beta has a definition, so if it doesn't meet those criteria it's something people should have open season to complain about. You like the game? Fine. That doesn't mean they devs can't do anything wrong.
The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
Are you a game developer? Just curious to know how credible your opinion actually is.
Welcome to the internet. Where everyone is a developer, artist, writer, marketing exec, lawyer, musician, song writer, insider, a friend of an insider, critic, reviewer, programmer, IT specialist, mother, sister, brother, father, and cousin twice removed.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
The fact they are still in this phase of working out NPC pathfinding is what I am talking about. Nothing that you expect to be complete in a beta is complete in this game.
Are you a game developer? Just curious to know how credible your opinion actually is.
Welcome to the internet. Where everyone is a developer, artist, writer, marketing exec, lawyer, musician, song writer, insider, a friend of an insider, critic, reviewer, programmer, IT specialist, mother, sister, brother, father, and cousin twice removed.
Well don't you all have big comfy armchairs? I do, makes me an expert on practically everything.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hatefull said: Alpha is still systems development, in beta, all systems are more or less complete it's just tweaking and making sure they work together.
...armchair dev manual quote.
No, back when I used to test a lot of games, that is exactly what several developers explained to me. I do not have any first-hand game development experience (much like you) but I at least had this explained to me by several people that do, unlike you.
Alpha is still systems development, in beta, all systems are more or less complete it's just tweaking and making sure they work together.
In product manufacturing alpha means the core concept of the product can still be changed to something else, just like it target demographic, functions and such.
Beta is a phase, after that, in which what the product will be, it's core functions and values, is already decided so now it's just a matter to "fit" it on it's place - chosing materials, shapes and sizes, extra features and so on.
I don't see why in gaming industry it would be different. Once the core features are set in stone it leaves alpha and start beta to check where the game's mechanics and features will support the core vision of the product.
While not as verbose, that is what I was saying. There is no difference between the industries being discussed. We are both trying to educate an arrogant fool and wasting our time. The person in question only comes here to troll and should not be taken seriously.
Although, the book idea could be a really good one.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Yes. You are just parroting something you lack comprehension of.
There is not even a point arguing this, it is very much a fact that what is labeled as Alpha or Beta differs from developer to developer - this very thread is a prime example.
Wow, we still have people saying/asking this years later eh? MJ/City State Entertainment have been VERY clear their vision of a Beta aligns more closely with original mmo beta testing, which was done much earlier in development and involved a game needing more than a little polish and balance. Rather than the modern interpretation of Beta which has been used a pre-launch/early access cash grab maneuver for unfinished games.
Too bad they adopted the modern definition of "18 months"
Lol ya. Of all the parts of the game and its development (which I follow closely), the one thing I don't trust their capabilities is in publishing realistic timelines.
I think the game will be good, within scope, and deliver the gameplay and features they promised with the spirit of the foundational principles being followed.
Just will keep on taking longer than they say it will, as it has since 2013.
Meh, wake me up when the game releases. Naxxramas will probably have been cleared in Classic WoW by then.
I pledged $35 IIRC, and fortunately decided early on not to spend a lot of time actively following this game. I just look it up every few months and every time find it’s still got a long way to go.
Like the ideas behind the game, though.
Honestly this is the best approach.
For anyone who cant handle the boring minutiae of the weekly updates, just wait til you hear about it through gaming media or your friends cause they saw something really cool.
That's the problem. I've been waiting for six years for someone to tell me, media or otherwise, that they saw something really cool. Six years in and it's still a hodge podge of basic systems.
Oh ok, well: i saw something really cool. Big battles with lots of vfx and many characters rendered and good fps, with some amount of rubber banding which needs to be fixed. But still really cool.
And i saw building destruction, buildings crumbling into small pieces block by block and rubble crushing players real time. Networked too, so not like medieval siege engineers.
In hindsight it was a mistake for this stage of development to be called "Beta 1" instead of "Alpha 2." The latter more accurately describes it.
...you remind me of people calling F2P not being "FREE" because you can spend money in the game.
That's a bullshit analogy and you are straw-manning the conversation. No one is complaining they cannot play the game they put money up for, that is absurd for you to even imply. I appreciate honest communication. They missed beta targets several times and were taking heat for how far behind they were, so they just caved and called it beta knowing damn well it wasn't. Once again, I put up $100 for this game to back it, so if I want to complain I really don't give a damn if you or anyone else doesn't like it.
Hatefull said: Alpha is still systems development, in beta, all systems are more or less complete it's just tweaking and making sure they work together.
...armchair dev manual quote.
Okay genius....here is the latest update on the game....speaks for itself.
WIP -
Tech - NavMesh: Lee continued on his
quest to bring pathing to the game via the NavMesh. Mark showed this off earlier in the week,
following through with our promise that our NPCs would not remain dumb as
rocks. This week, Lee worked on 3D-ification of the NavMesh/pathplanner to
handle pathing on surfaces above other surfaces, such as ramparts and
stairs. He also doubled the speed of the vertex welder (part of the mesh
simplifier system) and improved/fixed the algorithm for obstacle detection
for the NavMesh, adding data for heights to the obstacles.
Tech - Gameplay: Matt
and Christina added support for items that react when a player collides
with them. This should be the first step in getting traps into the game.
WIP - Tech - Servers - Linuxification: Andrew
has made a lot of progress on the Linuxification front. He has got all the
projects rebuilt through user proxies, which is one of CU’s biggest
scaling points, and is now working on the physics side of things. As a
reminder, this work, and the following Linux-related items, will help us
cut server costs.
WIP - Tech - NPC Server Linuxification: Colin
worked on converting the NPC server to build for .Net Core. After this is
done, it will let us run the NPC server on Linux. This work also gets us
closer to running the other .Net servers on Linux, because most of the
code he is converting is shared.
WIP - Tech - Servers - Moar Linuxification: This
week, Wylie worked to linuxify our low-level utility library. More
specifically, he replaced non-standard Microsoft-specific code with C++
standard code wherever possible. In some cases, this meant swapping out
functions, and in other cases, this meant creating new functions to the
original's specification.
WIP - Tech - Design Tools: Bull
worked on a tool that will make it easier to load and configure data in spreadsheets.
Our designers will be able to use this for versioning and rapid iteration.
WIP - Tech - Tools: We’re
working on a tool to automate starting and tearing down Shards. We made a
web frontend, and are making it smarter about the order in which Instances
are started up, waiting for connection to be established, users logged in,
server running, etc. An added output with error reporting helps us with
troubleshooting.
Art - VFX - Improvements and Templates:
Mike continued to adjust existing VFX based off his changes to lighting
last week. Additionally, he’s working through new ability types by
creating templates that can be used later when the visual look of an
ability is more defined.
Art - SFX - Music: This
week dB focused on creating sample instruments for new low-intensity
music.
WIP - Art - Procedural Materials: Last
week, we talked about using a new program to create our own in-house
materials. This week, we focused on making these materials more procedural.
This will save a lot of time in the future when we want to tweak things
like hue, value, grime, dents, etc. because we won’t have to go back to
the sculpting phase, instead just moving a few sliders around and making
new textures.
Art - Concept - NPCs: This
week, we went wide for possible NPCs. This covered a wide gamut of
creature types. At this point, we’re investigating different types of
characters we could create.
Art - Viking Battering Ram: We
finished this guy off, fixing its materials and adding rigging to it, so
it can be used as the other two Realm’s versions. This should show up soon
in a future build. Now the Viking’s won’t have to use the filthy Arthurian
version for testing!
Art - Draugar Movement Set: Sandra
and Scott double-teamed this item to get all the walks, runs, idles, and
one-handed weapon movement animations done. The next step will be to work
on the attack animations!
Art - Animation - Giant Movement Concepts: Scott
completed three rough animations of a giant walking forward. Each of these
has a very different feel to them. Next step is to pick the one we like
the most and build out the rest of the animations for later use.
More "beta" notes....these from July. The word "concept" is used six times.
Tech -
Performance: Over the last month, we’ve seen a
degradation in performance on the Cherry Keep Stress tests. Andrew turned
his attention to the problem this week and exorcised (or exercised, it was
tired, needed a good workout!) the problematic code. Performance is
actually slightly better now than it was back before the degradation.
WIP - Tech - NPC Behavior: This
week, Spidey started working on the messaging framework for NPC behaviors.
NPCs will be able to message from the NPC server to the Physics Server and
back again, and receive responses to said messaging. This is the root
framework required so our NPCs can start reacting to having Line of Sight
with their targets, as well as how they will be able to poll the
navigation in order to do proper pathfinding.
WIP - Tech - Camera: Spidey
also fixed the follow and target cameras so players can move the camera
around.
WIP - Tech - Tools: This
week, Christina added a bunch of validation tools to our game data. These
tools will help us catch errors in a timely manner, making development
faster, because we will spend less time tracking down those errors.
WIP - Tech - Trigger Volumes: Caleb
has been working on trigger volume tech. We already have this in our
ability system, so Caleb’s work will help us bring items like health and
blood pools to life.
WIP - Tech - Proxy optimizations: Rob
has decreased the bandwidth used to send player information to the client.
This should allow us to send more player information to the client per
packet, and update them more frequently, smoothing out the client
experience in mid-to-large size battles.
Tech - Abilities: Christina
added the ability for scripting to add abilities to a player. The bomb
item will be using this feature - when it is picked up it adds a
"place bomb" ability on your bar, so players can now hit the
hotkey and drop the bomb instead of have to unintuitively drop it by
swapping weapons.
Tech - World Editor Bugs: Matt
continued to assist those using the world editor by tracking down and
fixing more bugs that were blocking progress. This was a lengthy
investigation that leveled up Matt’s patience score!
WIP - Tech - Server: Following
up on Wylie’s work last week, Colin is finishing up the work on converting
our server to Linux. This week, he finished the necessary step of removing
the C++/CLI code from the game server. The end goal of this work is to
reduce server costs.
WIP - Tech - Client Performance:
Wylie spent the week investigating some client performance issues we were
seeing while running through Cherry Keep. Once he found the problem, he
wrote a fix to address it.
WIP - Tech - Tools:
Bull is working on a new data architecture that will make all the
supporting data needed to run the game branchable, batchable, and backed
up in a way that is a lot easier for us to use.
WIP - Tech - Improving Knockback:
Matt has recently moved to making knockbacks look and feel better, first
by teaching the client how to predict them like it does for particles,
projectiles, and other ability effects. This step should improve the
latency and rubber banding, but might not send people flying quite the way
we want just yet.
Art - Concept - Environments: Again,
and some of us will never get tired of saying this, we’ve completed a
bunch of cool concepts for environments and props. We’ve got a few artists
biting at the bit to make them!
Art - Concept - Draugr Color: Michelle
knocked out nine color ideas for last week’s Draugr NPC concepts.
WIP - Art - Material Creation: We’ve
begun to improve our ability to create the materials we need for CU by
working with Substance Designer, a program that will allow us to more
easily make exactly what we need vs. picking from a pre-existing library
of materials. This program has quickly become an industry standard for AAA
material work. Lots of info about it can be found online.
Art - Animation: Scott
prototyped several single-handed weapon attacks with a bit more “oomph” in
them, as well as some block animation prototyping with various flinches.
We can later use these for more animation variation.
WIP - Art - Animation: Sandra
did the animation equivalent of concepting, by blocking out different idle
and single direction movement animations, for possible use on NPCs. Once
we approve one of the concepts, she’ll turn it into an entire walk and run
set for later use.
Art - Animation - Improved Rig and Character
Topology Testing: Using models provided
by Jon, Joe investigated rigging improvements in Maya as well as external
tools that could improve the speed of creating unique skeletons.
Art - Siege Engine
LODs: We finished the LODs for all three battering rams, including the Vikings
version. That last one is currently getting set up for animation support. We
also added three different base ammunition for each trebuchet. We’ll use
these later to investigate why ammo doesn’t show up visually during the firing
animation of siege engines.
*crickets* on the actual development notes that show exactly how alpha this game is really in. Have fun in the beta that is going to last another 2 years....that's being optimistic.
Methodology is the way you flow a system, pipeline is the flow itself and a phase is a stage in production.
Whether you change the process in each phase or you call it "new pipeline", methodology or w/e is the same.
Again, there is a factual evidence that each developer is using same label for different development state and process.
There is no point arguing that any further.
There is a mountain of factors that will determine how you will call each development milestone - whether you are using out-of box engine, you are building your own, you are customizing one, when and how you want public or customers let in, whether you are crowdfunded fully, partially, what are your monetization and marketing plans, etc. etc.
Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, w/e are just labels for milestones picked by devs and only thing they share is consecution - one follow another.
*crickets* on the actual development notes that show exactly how alpha this game is really in. Have fun in the beta that is going to last another 2 years....that's being optimistic.
I am not arguing that CS is diverging from the standard in game development. Having played this game, it is in NO WAY in a beta phase as they are still developing systems. Among (many) other things.
Also, most people don't give a shit about anything you have to say. Ergo, crickets.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Comments
Good idea. Thanks!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
On a serious note. I think your sarcasm actually spawned a great idea. I think The Armchair Developer’s Common Sense Guide to Game Development “ would make a perfect vehicle for Kickstarter.
Wonder if some of these Crowdfunded devs would kick in for Lessons Learned chapters?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's sort of like that "joke" book, "How to Lose a Guy in 10 days." Was just a joke but one that was funny enough for me to get it for a friend as she was sort of the poster child for its contents. Others saw the humor and yadda, yadda, yadda, it spawned a movie.
Lesson? Go write it!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As the Joker would say, "Why aren't you laughing?" (From the Killing Joke)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I pledged $35 IIRC, and fortunately decided early on not to spend a lot of time actively following this game. I just look it up every few months and every time find it’s still got a long way to go.
Like the ideas behind the game, though.
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I think the game will be good, within scope, and deliver the gameplay and features they promised with the spirit of the foundational principles being followed.
Just will keep on taking longer than they say it will, as it has since 2013.
Honestly this is the best approach.
For anyone who cant handle the boring minutiae of the weekly updates, just wait til you hear about it through gaming media or your friends cause they saw something really cool.
Proof is in the pudding - if there was more into development stage labes other than consecution, we would not have this discussion.
Devs put lables on development stages to fit their needs, they don't do development stages to fit the labels.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
While not as verbose, that is what I was saying. There is no difference between the industries being discussed. We are both trying to educate an arrogant fool and wasting our time. The person in question only comes here to troll and should not be taken seriously.
Although, the book idea could be a really good one.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
There is not even a point arguing this, it is very much a fact that what is labeled as Alpha or Beta differs from developer to developer - this very thread is a prime example.
And i saw building destruction, buildings crumbling into small pieces block by block and rubble crushing players real time. Networked too, so not like medieval siege engineers.
That's a bullshit analogy and you are straw-manning the conversation. No one is complaining they cannot play the game they put money up for, that is absurd for you to even imply. I appreciate honest communication. They missed beta targets several times and were taking heat for how far behind they were, so they just caved and called it beta knowing damn well it wasn't. Once again, I put up $100 for this game to back it, so if I want to complain I really don't give a damn if you or anyone else doesn't like it.
Okay genius....here is the latest update on the game....speaks for itself.
More "beta" notes....these from July. The word "concept" is used six times.- Tech -
Performance: Over the last month, we’ve seen a
degradation in performance on the Cherry Keep Stress tests. Andrew turned
his attention to the problem this week and exorcised (or exercised, it was
tired, needed a good workout!) the problematic code. Performance is
actually slightly better now than it was back before the degradation.
- WIP - Tech - NPC Behavior: This
week, Spidey started working on the messaging framework for NPC behaviors.
NPCs will be able to message from the NPC server to the Physics Server and
back again, and receive responses to said messaging. This is the root
framework required so our NPCs can start reacting to having Line of Sight
with their targets, as well as how they will be able to poll the
navigation in order to do proper pathfinding.
- WIP - Tech - Camera: Spidey
also fixed the follow and target cameras so players can move the camera
around.
- WIP - Tech - Tools: This
week, Christina added a bunch of validation tools to our game data. These
tools will help us catch errors in a timely manner, making development
faster, because we will spend less time tracking down those errors.
- WIP - Tech - Trigger Volumes: Caleb
has been working on trigger volume tech. We already have this in our
ability system, so Caleb’s work will help us bring items like health and
blood pools to life.
- WIP - Tech - Proxy optimizations: Rob
has decreased the bandwidth used to send player information to the client.
This should allow us to send more player information to the client per
packet, and update them more frequently, smoothing out the client
experience in mid-to-large size battles.
- Tech - Abilities: Christina
added the ability for scripting to add abilities to a player. The bomb
item will be using this feature - when it is picked up it adds a
"place bomb" ability on your bar, so players can now hit the
hotkey and drop the bomb instead of have to unintuitively drop it by
swapping weapons.
- Tech - World Editor Bugs: Matt
continued to assist those using the world editor by tracking down and
fixing more bugs that were blocking progress. This was a lengthy
investigation that leveled up Matt’s patience score!
- WIP - Tech - Server: Following
up on Wylie’s work last week, Colin is finishing up the work on converting
our server to Linux. This week, he finished the necessary step of removing
the C++/CLI code from the game server. The end goal of this work is to
reduce server costs.
- WIP - Tech - Client Performance:
Wylie spent the week investigating some client performance issues we were
seeing while running through Cherry Keep. Once he found the problem, he
wrote a fix to address it.
- WIP - Tech - Tools:
Bull is working on a new data architecture that will make all the
supporting data needed to run the game branchable, batchable, and backed
up in a way that is a lot easier for us to use.
- WIP - Tech - Improving Knockback:
Matt has recently moved to making knockbacks look and feel better, first
by teaching the client how to predict them like it does for particles,
projectiles, and other ability effects. This step should improve the
latency and rubber banding, but might not send people flying quite the way
we want just yet.
- Art - Concept - Environments: Again,
and some of us will never get tired of saying this, we’ve completed a
bunch of cool concepts for environments and props. We’ve got a few artists
biting at the bit to make them!
- Art - Concept - Draugr Color: Michelle
knocked out nine color ideas for last week’s Draugr NPC concepts.
- WIP - Art - Material Creation: We’ve
begun to improve our ability to create the materials we need for CU by
working with Substance Designer, a program that will allow us to more
easily make exactly what we need vs. picking from a pre-existing library
of materials. This program has quickly become an industry standard for AAA
material work. Lots of info about it can be found online.
- Art - Animation: Scott
prototyped several single-handed weapon attacks with a bit more “oomph” in
them, as well as some block animation prototyping with various flinches.
We can later use these for more animation variation.
- WIP - Art - Animation: Sandra
did the animation equivalent of concepting, by blocking out different idle
and single direction movement animations, for possible use on NPCs. Once
we approve one of the concepts, she’ll turn it into an entire walk and run
set for later use.
- Art - Animation - Improved Rig and Character
Topology Testing: Using models provided
by Jon, Joe investigated rigging improvements in Maya as well as external
tools that could improve the speed of creating unique skeletons.
Art - Siege Engine LODs: We finished the LODs for all three battering rams, including the Vikings version. That last one is currently getting set up for animation support. We also added three different base ammunition for each trebuchet. We’ll use these later to investigate why ammo doesn’t show up visually during the firing animation of siege engines.Again, there is a factual evidence that each developer is using same label for different development state and process.
There is no point arguing that any further.
There is a mountain of factors that will determine how you will call each development milestone - whether you are using out-of box engine, you are building your own, you are customizing one, when and how you want public or customers let in, whether you are crowdfunded fully, partially, what are your monetization and marketing plans, etc. etc.
Pre-Alpha, Alpha, Beta, w/e are just labels for milestones picked by devs and only thing they share is consecution - one follow another.
Also, most people don't give a shit about anything you have to say. Ergo, crickets.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.