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No evidence video games cause mass shootings

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  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,952
    Torval said:
    I think both sides of the gun control argument are in denial.  The reality is that the US population is mentally sick and saturated with weapons.  No amount of armed people or gun banning will stop anything.  Guns do make things easier but guns aren't going anywhere because of 2nd and ridiculous lobbying.  

    The only choices are to arm up your self or just beat the odds and pray the bad gun culture changes.  Odds are you likely will never be shot.
    That won't happen until we get tired of killing each other and the consequences for living like feral dogs.
    Yeah, US culture has some very twisted attitudes about guns.  I am guilty of it myself at times.
    Torvalalkarionlog
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,602
    First, dancing was the devil, then it was rock and roll. After that they moved on to D&D table top and now it's video games. The people who keep pointing fingers are all living in denial. Only a human being is capable of committing mass murder. Maybe they should look into mental healthcare.

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,494
    Nearly all of the mass shootings so far have been carried out by people that would have passed most sanity tests or whatever, so improved mental healthcare sadly won't improve that situation very much (though it'll improve other things)

    .....admittingly it probably will still have more impact than blaming videogames though.
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,602
    Nearly all of the mass shootings so far have been carried out by people that would have passed most sanity tests or whatever, so improved mental healthcare sadly won't improve that situation very much (though it'll improve other things)

    .....admittingly it probably will still have more impact than blaming videogames though.
    Not sure what mental evaluations you've dealt with, but most of the recent mass shooters would definitely not have passed a typical mental health evaluation which asks questions repeatedly with different wording. Test results look for inconsistencies which generally leads one to believe the person is hiding something. Then you have the typical mannerisms of someone who is clinically insane, like Charles Manson. Between the evaluation and studying body language, it's not hard at all to determine ones state of mind.

  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,239
    Rhoklaw said:
    Nearly all of the mass shootings so far have been carried out by people that would have passed most sanity tests or whatever, so improved mental healthcare sadly won't improve that situation very much (though it'll improve other things)

    .....admittingly it probably will still have more impact than blaming videogames though.
    Not sure what mental evaluations you've dealt with, but most of the recent mass shooters would definitely not have passed a typical mental health evaluation which asks questions repeatedly with different wording. Test results look for inconsistencies which generally leads one to believe the person is hiding something. Then you have the typical mannerisms of someone who is clinically insane, like Charles Manson. Between the evaluation and studying body language, it's not hard at all to determine ones state of mind.
    My wife is a therapist and I can tell you from talking with her its not that simple. Her and her colleagues argue all the time about the mental health issue brought up every time their is a shooting. Obviously she can not go to much into it because of HIPAA but I can say that she says that mental health evaluations wouldn't work. People are really good at lying, at hiding things.  
    I changed my profile picture, sorry

    Proud supporter of Ship of Heroes, Fractured, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, and Saga of Lucimia 

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  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,494
    Rhoklaw said:
    Nearly all of the mass shootings so far have been carried out by people that would have passed most sanity tests or whatever, so improved mental healthcare sadly won't improve that situation very much (though it'll improve other things)

    .....admittingly it probably will still have more impact than blaming videogames though.
    Not sure what mental evaluations you've dealt with, but most of the recent mass shooters would definitely not have passed a typical mental health evaluation which asks questions repeatedly with different wording. Test results look for inconsistencies which generally leads one to believe the person is hiding something. Then you have the typical mannerisms of someone who is clinically insane, like Charles Manson. Between the evaluation and studying body language, it's not hard at all to determine ones state of mind.
    Thing is, even if mental evaluations hypothetically were capable of what you are saying they are (I disagree, but as mentioned by the previous poster, we could argue all day about that and get no where), how would you know to mentally evaluate those individuals in the first place?  Sure, it hypothetically, if you are correct, might be easy enough to figure out they're ill once you start questioning them, but how would you know to question them in the first place?

    If it were so easy to detect these people in the first place and realize they need help, you'd see it happen more often instead of all these people who, AFTER the mass shooting happened, always say "Oooooooooh, yea, that guy was nuts".  Hindsight is 20/20 but that means nothing for finding out if a person is going to do a mass shooting BEFORE they do the mass shooting.
  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Member RarePosts: 2,391
    Jeez dude, you would think a week long ban and dude wouldn't jump right back to his blame Trump for everything schpeil, oh well, I am not going down this road again

    Blaze_RockerJeffSpicoliAlBQuirky
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,569
    edited August 11
    Myrdynn said:
    Jeez dude, you would think a week long ban and dude wouldn't jump right back to his blame Trump for everything schpeil, oh well, I am not going down this road again

    ??????????????



    I am relaying my opinion like many others here and you choose to target ME.  Maybe 45 was your sugar daddy or something the way you get offended it's like you are defending a teen boyfriend..tbh you just look like a b**** (edited for more emphasis) 

    You would think that after your week-long ban you wouldn't jump right back on my nutsack but somehow... you found your way back. You couldn't wait to mention me.

    FTR I want everyone to see how you continually start shit with me. For no reason. I didn't mention you, didn't say a word about you ( i never do, you actually have zero importance)  and you still want to talk shit about me. WHY?
    (it's rhetorical no need to answer, I don't care. ) 

    Welcome to my BLOCK/IGNORE list. 

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    You've heard what I've heard

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Member RarePosts: 2,391
    edited August 11
    what a shock, I cant imagine if I would have spent the previous 8 years of my life blaming Obummer for everything, instead I got up and went to work, just like a normal person.  Also I am not a Trump supporter, but whatever #everythingisracist

    Blaze_RockerAlBQuirkyJeffSpicoli
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,166
    IMHO

    Desperate people do desperate things.

    Whats making them so desperate?
    JeffSpicoli

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    laserit said:
    IMHO

    Desperate people do desperate things.

    Whats making them so desperate?
    Im no shrink but if i had to guess, Hysteria and fear mongering 
    Blaze_RockerAlBQuirky
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 564

    I don't think videogames have reached the level of realism for them to help "normalize" killing in a person's mind yet.  Pretty sure the way the military trains for such things is entirely different and involves lots of live exercises, etc.  If anything, pretty sure videogames do the opposite due to the uncanny valley effect where holding a real gun and shooting someone feels VERY different from how such things happen in games when done via a controller or light gun, etc.
    If the military can double the number of soldiers shooting to kill just by switching from from bullseye targets to human shaped targets, I think vidya is capable of having a similar effect. While it may not have the same realism and impact that a live fire exercise with simunition has, those exercises are done for a few hours over a career while games are played for thousands of hours. 
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 475
    edited August 12
    While I wouldn't say that vidya causes or motivates shootings, I don't think it's accurate to say they haven't contributed somewhat to them. 

    After WW2 the military did a study of the willingness of soldiers to shoot to kill and found that a very small percentage actually bothered to aim at an enemy and attempt to hit them. It was determined that most people find killing abhorrent and even on a battlefield are not comfortable with intentionally taking a life. 

    Following the results of this study they began training programs designed to lesson this the effects of this innate reaction and normalize shooting another human being. They've refined the training (one might call it brain washing) down to the point where nearly 100% of trained soldiers shoot to kill. 

    Lindybeige did an episode on this, and it's worth watching:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zViyZGmBhvs

    How does this relate to games? We're undergoing that same normalization process. It may even be more intense and effective than what the military has done, as we're often shooting at human characters controlled by real people. 

    To stress the point, no I'm not saying games cause or motivate shootings. But it's inaccurate to say they haven't contributed at all. You combine someone who is angry or psychotic enough to commit mass murder, with the normalization of killing from hours of gaming and you have a recipe for disaster. Does that mean we should ban games? Not any more than we should ban human shaped range targets. 
    IF what you say is true, where's hte evidence? No research supports a link between violent video games and shootings. Your video shows some military programs using skinnerian psychology and man-shaped targets to reportedly increase the numbers of soldiers shooting to kill on hte battlefiedl (by making it a reflex). Those're not the same thing. You're doing apples and oranges. Furthermore, killing on a battlefield is not the same thing as indiscriminate killing in a school or public place. True scientific research demands FAR more empirical thoroughness.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • Noobmaster_95Noobmaster_95 Member UncommonPosts: 93
    There's more evidence that government hypnosis causes mass shootings than video games.
    True
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,740
    Kyleran said:


    Sometimes I think the Purge movies are ever closer to becoming a reality.


    LOL, when I first watched those movies, it was one of the first things I thought. "Wow, I could actually see some politician pulling this. Scary."
    Kyleran

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,494
    edited August 12

    I don't think videogames have reached the level of realism for them to help "normalize" killing in a person's mind yet.  Pretty sure the way the military trains for such things is entirely different and involves lots of live exercises, etc.  If anything, pretty sure videogames do the opposite due to the uncanny valley effect where holding a real gun and shooting someone feels VERY different from how such things happen in games when done via a controller or light gun, etc.
    If the military can double the number of soldiers shooting to kill just by switching from from bullseye targets to human shaped targets, I think vidya is capable of having a similar effect. While it may not have the same realism and impact that a live fire exercise with simunition has, those exercises are done for a few hours over a career while games are played for thousands of hours. 
    There's actually a huge difference between live shooting something shaped-like a human and virtual shooting one on a TV screen using a controller or even a light gun (not that there are many light guns these days anyways).

    The former makes it a reflex built into your body to use a gun with your actual muscles and own hands against a human target, and the soldier's brain already knows that's what you're supposed to be doing.  The latter, you're using a controller or even with a light gun, shooting at a screen, and the player is well aware that they are not a soldier getting ready to kill other soldiers in real life (well, unless they are, but most if not all mass shooters didn't use a video game to train themselves. They used a shooting range instead cause using a videogame to train yourself to hit a target instead of live training when learning how to shoot a real gun is idiotic).  The mental implant that occurs is vastly different.
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,786
    edited August 12
    Viper482 said:
    Viper482 said:
    Listening to non-Americans talk about guns in America hurts my brain. 

    First of all....it isn't the wild west here. I am 48 years old and don't know one person who has been shot or even shot at. I have lived in big cities like Tampa, Miami, El Paso, and Las Vegas and I have never heard gunshots just being out in the community or sitting in my home. We have 320 million people in our country, we have states that have a bigger population than most countries. We have 90 million law abiding gun owners. Think about those numbers, then think of the fact we lose about 10,000 people to murder by firearm each year. 

    Do the math. If you read the news you would think death by gun is the leading cause of death in the U.S., it does not make the top 15, at which point 16+ is "all other causes".

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf 
    you have to omit the exception of Chicago and Baltimore . 
    No I don't, this is exactly my point. This is a huge country, you cannot compare us as a country to tiny countries with the population that equals one of our states. Even in a large city like Chicago the majority of shootings are where? South side? It is not like you can't visit Chicago as a tourist without fear of being murdered. It's gang violence and it's in the "hood", not the entire city.
    . People get shot every single day. They're shooting in small towns you haven't even heard of and aren't report nationally. There is at least 1 shooting a week in my area of nowhere. 

    From what I'm seeing in your comment , is because you don't personally see it happening in front of "your" eyes, it is not an epidemic ? 

    Are you saying you devalue human life by the scale of their income because in rich neighborhoods don't see shooting ? I'm using this word by definition, that is a very "ignorant" way of viewing shooting. We are all human, doesn't matter if it is in the ghetto or on 5th avenue, a life is a life.

    Chicago :

    "Early Sunday, 17 people were shot in a period of two hours in a small pocket on the city’s West Side, turning residential blocks into chaotic scenes of ambulances, grieving family members and cars pockmarked with bullets.

    There were 32 separate shooting incidents throughout the weekend, the police said."


    Don't strawman me. I stated FACTS. 10,000 people per year are killed in this HUGE country of 320,000,000 people. My ONLY point...was if you ONLY listen to the news and to people like you, one would believe we are dodging bullets on the way to work every day. 

    Strawman fallacy is for people who either lack reading comprehension or are intellectually dishonest. Which one are you?  Don't respond to my posts if you are not going to address the actual premise of my argument. Turning this into "you don't care about poor people" is bullshit. 
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,786
    edited August 12
    Viper482 said:
    I think both sides of the gun control argument are in denial.  The reality is that the US population is mentally sick and saturated with weapons.  No amount of armed people or gun banning will stop anything.  Guns do make things easier but guns aren't going anywhere because of 2nd and ridiculous lobbying.  

    The only choices are to arm up your self or just beat the odds and pray the bad gun culture changes.  Odds are you likely will never be shot.

    This is pathetically ignorant and moronic crap. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting it. I am embarrassed for you.
    No you should be embarrassed throwing out insults without rebuttal.  

    You're right, my emotions got the best of me. I do think your comments were ignorant and paint an absurd picture of our country in general. I find some truth in it but it is too exaggerated for me to grasp any more than that.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Torval said:
    I think both sides of the gun control argument are in denial.  The reality is that the US population is mentally sick and saturated with weapons.  No amount of armed people or gun banning will stop anything.  Guns do make things easier but guns aren't going anywhere because of 2nd and ridiculous lobbying.  

    The only choices are to arm up your self or just beat the odds and pray the bad gun culture changes.  Odds are you likely will never be shot.
    That won't happen until we get tired of killing each other and the consequences for living like feral dogs.
    Yeah, US culture has some very twisted attitudes about guns.  I am guilty of it myself at times.
    Nahh.. just most Americans understand that a Gun is a tool, not any different than a hammer or knife, and like any tool, it is only as deadly as the person using it.

    See Evil or "Right and Wrong" are an action of motive, a machine or a tool, cannot have motive, it cannot be good or evil, it is just an object.

    Just like a Nuclear Warhead is neither good nor evil, it is just a thing, it is not the weapon that is the problem, it is who has it.

    The issue is, when it comes to America, we don't trust our government, and given how often and how much they screw over the general people, this is a well founded lack of trust (Why we have not revolted yet is beyond me), so, asking our dead incompetent leaders to judge who is fit to own a gun is not something any really sane American wants to do.

    Which also happens to be why many Americans do not trust public health care, it's not that they don't want health care, or even that public health care is a bad thing, it's that, keep in mind, you are asking the same people that have screwed up social security funds, to now cover your health care.. and trying to tell half this country "But this time they won't fuck it up" when their batting record has been shit.. 

    This is really why Americans are against gun laws.. 
    laserit
  • jonp200jonp200 Member UncommonPosts: 453
    This has been debated for years.  I recall a Columbia University study during the last attack on video games that found no evidence of a link to violence.  To be fair, that same study however did indicate that playing violent games could contribute to more agitation for someone already mentally unstable which makes sense.

    Violence in movies has also been cited as a contributing factor too; hogwash.  I grew up watching Warner Brothers cartoons with Wiley Coyote dropping 500 lb Acme weights on everything in sight. It was entertainment not reality.

    What is more concerning in my mind is a lack of awareness in a community.  Only 31% of Americans know their neighbors.  In the aftermath of one of these tragedies I keep seeing interviews with community members; "he was a quiet guy.  Seemed nice but I didn't really know him..." (sic)  There is more going on here that access to guns and playing video games.

    Seaspite
    Playing ESO on my X-Box


  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,527
    edited August 12
    jonp200 said:
    This has been debated for years.  I recall a Columbia University study during the last attack on video games that found no evidence of a link to violence.  To be fair, that same study however did indicate that playing violent games could contribute to more agitation for someone already mentally unstable which makes sense.

    Violence in movies has also been cited as a contributing factor too; hogwash.  I grew up watching Warner Brothers cartoons with Wiley Coyote dropping 500 lb Acme weights on everything in sight. It was entertainment not reality.

    What is more concerning in my mind is a lack of awareness in a community.  Only 31% of Americans know their neighbors.  In the aftermath of one of these tragedies I keep seeing interviews with community members; "he was a quiet guy.  Seemed nice but I didn't really know him..." (sic)  There is more going on here that access to guns and playing video games.
    It's hard to get to know quiet unsociable people.  What are you supposed to do if someone is purposefully staying away from others?  Invade their private life?

    That said, in several cases there were interviews with people who did reach out and try to get to know the mass shooter before he shot up everyone (of course, at the time, they didn't know he'd become a mass shooter).  In the end, they ended up cutting off relations with that person because it turns out that most people who become mass shooters are assholes.  What a surprise.
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,924
    Tiamat64 said:
    jonp200 said:
    This has been debated for years.  I recall a Columbia University study during the last attack on video games that found no evidence of a link to violence.  To be fair, that same study however did indicate that playing violent games could contribute to more agitation for someone already mentally unstable which makes sense.

    Violence in movies has also been cited as a contributing factor too; hogwash.  I grew up watching Warner Brothers cartoons with Wiley Coyote dropping 500 lb Acme weights on everything in sight. It was entertainment not reality.

    What is more concerning in my mind is a lack of awareness in a community.  Only 31% of Americans know their neighbors.  In the aftermath of one of these tragedies I keep seeing interviews with community members; "he was a quiet guy.  Seemed nice but I didn't really know him..." (sic)  There is more going on here that access to guns and playing video games.
    It's hard to get to know quiet unsociable people.  What are you supposed to do if someone is purposefully staying away from others?  Invade their private life?

    That said, in several cases there were interviews with people who did reach out and try to get to know the mass shooter before he shot up everyone (of course, at the time, they didn't know he'd become a mass shooter).  In the end, they ended up cutting off relations with that person because it turns out that most people who become mass shooters are assholes.  What a surprise.
    Who'd give an interview about how he had a great friend who turned out to be a mass shooter, and who'd want to publish that?

    Mass shooters do likely have more problems and less good relationships than average people, but what we see is also biased based on what people and media want to report.
     
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,527
    edited August 12
    Vrika said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    jonp200 said:
    This has been debated for years.  I recall a Columbia University study during the last attack on video games that found no evidence of a link to violence.  To be fair, that same study however did indicate that playing violent games could contribute to more agitation for someone already mentally unstable which makes sense.

    Violence in movies has also been cited as a contributing factor too; hogwash.  I grew up watching Warner Brothers cartoons with Wiley Coyote dropping 500 lb Acme weights on everything in sight. It was entertainment not reality.

    What is more concerning in my mind is a lack of awareness in a community.  Only 31% of Americans know their neighbors.  In the aftermath of one of these tragedies I keep seeing interviews with community members; "he was a quiet guy.  Seemed nice but I didn't really know him..." (sic)  There is more going on here that access to guns and playing video games.
    It's hard to get to know quiet unsociable people.  What are you supposed to do if someone is purposefully staying away from others?  Invade their private life?

    That said, in several cases there were interviews with people who did reach out and try to get to know the mass shooter before he shot up everyone (of course, at the time, they didn't know he'd become a mass shooter).  In the end, they ended up cutting off relations with that person because it turns out that most people who become mass shooters are assholes.  What a surprise.
    Who'd give an interview about how he had a great friend who turned out to be a mass shooter, and who'd want to publish that?

    Mass shooters do likely have more problems and less good relationships than average people, but what we see is also biased based on what people and media want to report.
    *shrug*  If the topic in question is "People need to get to know each other better", I believe that "Mass shooters are the types of personalities that are hard to get to know" is a more likely factor than "Maybe mass shooters are good enough people who had good friends that the media isn't interviewing and it's other peoples' fault for not getting to know them!"
  • AxxarAxxar Member UncommonPosts: 86
    Funny how other western countries play just as many video games but have far fewer guns do not have these issues, huh?

    Very hard to figure out, this one. Requires at least 200 IQ.
  • gunklackergunklacker Member UncommonPosts: 247
    "Just like a Nuclear Warhead is neither good nor evil, it is just a thing, it is not the weapon that is the problem, it is who has it."

    Nope your wrong a Nuclear Warhead is 1000% evil


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