Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

OPINION: Red’s Read on Exclusives - MMORPG.com

123578

Comments

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,475
    edited August 9
    elveone said:
    Ginaz said:
    blamo2000 said:
    I'll take the anti-Epic store people seriously when they rage against Steam for having thousands of exclusive games only on Steam. Until then, they are a joke just mad their monopoly has a small competitor trying to break it. Nevermind the fact they make false claims of certain games being exclusive when they are on multiple PC game distributors, but just not on Steam temporarily (like Outer Worlds).
    Steam doesn't have any exclusive games other than ones made by Valve and Valve has never paid developers for exclusivity as far as I know.  Care to point any out?  As far as I know, all the games on Steam are capable of being distributed on other platforms if the developers wanted to.
    Their revenue sharing policy gives incentivizes store exclusives due to it being based on how revenue share is being calculated. At $10 million Valve gets 25% instead of 30% and at $50 million they get 20%. This means that all big games are incentivized to stay exclusive to their store until those marks are hit because revenue split between multiple stores might cause them to miss those and thus receive smaller revenue share from where the majority of the sales would happen on PC(because of Steam's virtual monopoly). Effectively Valve are giving $500 000 for games to stay exclusive on their store until they hit $10 million in revenue and additional $2 500 000 to stay exclusive until they hit 50 million in revenue overall. There are no exclusivity deals - just great exclusivity incentives.
    that aside as i said previously, can someone show me how to buy / install and play Atlas without steam, apparently steam has no exclusives but i can only buy / install and play Atlas through steam.

    it's funny how no one ever argues against this point because you can't.... you can't say steam doesn't have exclusives but Atlas is exclusively on steam and is not developed or published by Valve.

    The argument "it's only one game" also doesn't count... because 1 game is still 1 exclusive and there are more examples, i just can't be bothered finding out which games.
    elveone
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 266
    edited August 9
    mbrodie said:

    that aside as i said previously, can someone show me how to buy / install and play Atlas without steam, apparently steam has no exclusives but i can only buy / install and play Atlas through steam.

    it's funny how no one ever argues against this point because you can't.... you can't say steam doesn't have exclusives but Atlas is exclusively on steam and is not developed or published by Valve.

    The argument "it's only one game" also doesn't count... because 1 game is still 1 exclusive and there are more examples, i just can't be bothered finding out which games.
    It is definitely not only one game. I've been asking the same question about Devil May Cry 5, Resident Evil 2: Remake, Monster Hunter World and Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice. All of those are sold on the Microsoft Windows 10 store for Xbox but the PC editions are suspiciously missing there.
    mbrodie
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,582
    edited August 9
    mbrodie said:
    Celcius said:

    k61977 said:

    I see exclusivity as fear in not being able to compete in an open market. I also will never buy an game as long as it is exclusive. Throughout my life there have been many games made that might have been great, but I didn't buy them because they were console exclusive to this or that console. I will not do exclusive on PC the same way I never have on console. It is a personal choice. If your game or platform can't stand on it's on an it has to hide behind things like offering discounts through things like exclusivity then I don't need either. I don't care about the reasons why a dev goes that route either, as a customer I just will not support it.



    I also think it is absolutely despicable what some of these crowdfunded games have done (Ooblets and that one game sorta like Xcom which I forgot the name of) promising Steam versions and then selling out for an exclusivity deal.

    Epics Exclusive deals are timed, other PC platforms will get all the games eventually
    Yeah and that is fair enough I suppose, but I just think it is pretty disingenuous when it is a crowd funded game because people are quite literally giving you money with the expectation that when it is released they will be able to play it on the platform that you originally said it would be on. I don't really think anyone who wants to play a crowd funded game on Steam on day 1 will be very happy if they can't play it on Steam while people who don't mind Epic play it there.

    Maybe I should have been a bit more specific though; Using crowd funding as a platform to signal boost your game to the point where Epic buys your game as an exclusive and you no longer need the crowd funding is downright dirty. These companies are essentially using people's good will (donations towards their crowdfunding campaign) towards something that didn't need their support in the first place. If your game is crowd funded and you want to gain additional funding that is something you need to show to your backers while keeping the original integrity of the game intact.(Not changing the original plan for example) It is not something you should be sharing with a 3rd party to get a quick buck while simultaneously telling all the people who helped you get to that point that they will have an extra "We are still making the game, BUT..." in the mix.
    EricDanie
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,475
    Celcius said:
    mbrodie said:
    Celcius said:

    k61977 said:

    I see exclusivity as fear in not being able to compete in an open market. I also will never buy an game as long as it is exclusive. Throughout my life there have been many games made that might have been great, but I didn't buy them because they were console exclusive to this or that console. I will not do exclusive on PC the same way I never have on console. It is a personal choice. If your game or platform can't stand on it's on an it has to hide behind things like offering discounts through things like exclusivity then I don't need either. I don't care about the reasons why a dev goes that route either, as a customer I just will not support it.



    I also think it is absolutely despicable what some of these crowdfunded games have done (Ooblets and that one game sorta like Xcom which I forgot the name of) promising Steam versions and then selling out for an exclusivity deal.

    Epics Exclusive deals are timed, other PC platforms will get all the games eventually
    Yeah and that is fair enough I suppose, but I just think it is pretty disingenuous when it is a crowd funded game because people are quite literally giving you money with the expectation that when it is released they will be able to play it on the platform that you originally said it would be on. I don't really think anyone who wants to play a crowd funded game on Steam on day 1 will be very happy if they can't play it on Steam while people who don't mind Epic play it there.

    Maybe I should have been a bit more specific though; Using crowd funding as a platform to signal boost your game to the point where Epic buys your game as an exclusive and you no longer need the crowd funding is downright dirty. These companies are essentially using people's good will (donations towards their crowdfunding campaign) towards something that didn't need their support in the first place. If your game is crowd funded and you want to gain additional funding that is something you need to show to your backers while keeping the original integrity of the game intact.(Not changing the original plan for example) It is not something you should be sharing with a 3rd party to get a quick buck while simultaneously telling all the people who helped you get to that point that they will have an extra "We are still making the game, BUT..." in the mix.
    I agree with your point but there is a big BUT.

    Life isn't that black and white, expense happens, things you can't account for arise in the gaming development world, extended development time, needing to hire more people for whatever reason, creditors calling, just life happening it can't be helped and sometimes there is things that happen which are just unavoidable.

    I have no reason to believe that at any point they were crowdfunding with the intention of getting picked up with an exclusivity deal with Epic. I also believe that the choice would not have been easy for them and that it was probably a lengthy process for them to say yes to it, they have an idea of how many they need to sell and how many they want to sell and maybe the market forecasting for releasing on Steam wasn't going to get them where they needed to be.

    Especially for a studio of 2 people who would have been primarily self funded outside of outsourcing.. it's ok for us to look in and cast judgement but can any of us honestly say if we were in that situation and epic came along saying "hey we will guarantee you X amount of sales on our store and if we don't reach that target don't stress we gonna pay the difference" after looking at our own financials and weighing up what could and couldn't happen we wouldn't take the deal, i can honestly say if i had been pouring my blood sweat and tears into something for x amount of years, i'd want to take the best deal on the table.

    I don't think anyone sets out to be disingenuous but we are all human and we're all gonna do whats best for ourselves, at the end of the day anyone who backed it on kickstarter is still gonna get the game, might not be on their preferred platform but you're still getting the game.
    elveoneRed_Thomas
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 266
    Celcius said:
    mbrodie said:
    Celcius said:

    k61977 said:

    I see exclusivity as fear in not being able to compete in an open market. I also will never buy an game as long as it is exclusive. Throughout my life there have been many games made that might have been great, but I didn't buy them because they were console exclusive to this or that console. I will not do exclusive on PC the same way I never have on console. It is a personal choice. If your game or platform can't stand on it's on an it has to hide behind things like offering discounts through things like exclusivity then I don't need either. I don't care about the reasons why a dev goes that route either, as a customer I just will not support it.



    I also think it is absolutely despicable what some of these crowdfunded games have done (Ooblets and that one game sorta like Xcom which I forgot the name of) promising Steam versions and then selling out for an exclusivity deal.

    Epics Exclusive deals are timed, other PC platforms will get all the games eventually
    Yeah and that is fair enough I suppose, but I just think it is pretty disingenuous when it is a crowd funded game because people are quite literally giving you money with the expectation that when it is released they will be able to play it on the platform that you originally said it would be on. I don't really think anyone who wants to play a crowd funded game on Steam on day 1 will be very happy if they can't play it on Steam while people who don't mind Epic play it there.

    Maybe I should have been a bit more specific though; Using crowd funding as a platform to signal boost your game to the point where Epic buys your game as an exclusive and you no longer need the crowd funding is downright dirty. These companies are essentially using people's good will (donations towards their crowdfunding campaign) towards something that didn't need their support in the first place. If your game is crowd funded and you want to gain additional funding that is something you need to show to your backers while keeping the original integrity of the game intact.(Not changing the original plan for example) It is not something you should be sharing with a 3rd party to get a quick buck while simultaneously telling all the people who helped you get to that point that they will have an extra "We are still making the game, BUT..." in the mix.
    The game does not change, the people crowdfunding the game receive the same or a better product because of the exclusivity deal and in the end they gave money so the game would be developed and not so it would be released on specific store. If a game releasing on steam was the reason for a kickstarter campaign to succeed then there would be no kickstarter games failing to reach their campaign goal. Moreover it is not like a kickstarter campaign fully funds a game's development - all of the crowdfunded games that have gone Epic exclusive are mostly funded by the studio developing them. Even the patreon support for the Ooblets development does not seem to be making enough money to support two people developing a game for... 3 years now if I'm not mistaken?
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,319
    edited August 9
    Gutlard said:
    I'm not sure what EGS is doing is any different than consoles have been doing from the beginning. I DL'd the launcher a while back (for free) when they were giving away Shadow Complex, and haven't looked back. 

    I'm not worried about their lack of features, because I don't use any of that shit on Steam either. Let me know when the feature creep reaches an acceptable level, so I'm allowed to play.  ;) I'm not blown away by Origin or U-Play either, tbh.

    I buy games when they're on sale wherever. I add all these Free weekly games to my Epic Library to play whenever also, and a lot of them were on my Steam Wish List as well, so that saved a lot of money. The same with Twitch. Does Twitch get a free pass on the hate? Do they not have exclusive deals?

    I'm def not happy juggling all these services/apps/launchers/etc. but that's our world now until the pendulum swings back down toward more user friendly efficient tech, if it ever does.

    I couldn't even understand the argument even if we did have to pay for Launchers, because I'm so used to consoles being this way forever.

    I invested a lot of money in a PS4 specifically for all their great exclusives, and I've done the same for Nintendo systems. The investment in this argument is nothing but a few seconds of time, and a short DL, so it's just not the same. Buy the games wherever they're cheapest and nab as many free games as you can from everyone.

    Gut Out!
    For the benefit of folks such who don't read threads before replying, my response from page one.

    "Hmm, I've yet to download the Epic Launcher, but is that all I really have to do?

    Or do I also need to create a new account, create new user IDs, passwords, forum accounts, social media links, and set up a credit card to bill to?

    If it just is downloading a new launcher, great, but I suspect that is not the case."

    To do it right you need to create a new burner email account, generate and store new passwords in a password manager (which you first must log into).

    After all of this (more than a few seconds) now you've just shared a ton of PI with yet another company on the internet.

    These days I've been following the advice of several internet security analysts who recommend minimizing your exposure to as few places as truly necessary.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 542
    Ginaz said:
    I HIGHLY doubt we'll be seeing any price reductions as a direct result of exclusives.  Any and all extra money made/saved by developers will go back to them and will NOT result in lower prices for consumers.  When has this ever happened for any other product?  Companies cut costs and pocket the savings.  Always. 

    It's kind of a disappointing, but expected I guess, seeing most "games journalists" supporting, even tacitly, the trend to more exclusives and other anti-consumer practices by game companies and developers.  It's so hard to tell these days who's who as there is a real problem with the incestuous type of relationship "games journalists" have with developers.  One day you're a "journalist"  the next you're a developer or working for one.
    Wow.  Going right in for those ad hominem attacks, I see.  Very erudite of you.  For one, I am not and have never claimed to be a journalist.  For another, I would never work for a game developer because they couldn't afford me on their budgets.

    As far as the cost savings of exclusives, you see it all the time.  How much did you pay to watch Game of Thrones?  Was it maybe free with your HBO subscription?  Maybe you played Anthem or BF5 for free with your Origin Access?  Those are just easy examples.

    And by the way, you clearly don't really understand basic economics.   It's not the company saving money that they magically decide to give back to the consumer.  Of course that doesn't happen, that's ridiculous.   But when there's competition, that's when they find ways to lower their price point to undercut the competition.   For instance, if I'm saving 15% using Epic, I might cut my price 5-10% to help encourage more traffic over to my game on the new distribution service.  I still come out ahead, the consumer saves a little cash, and Epic gets a little more traffic and more users.
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 266
    Kyleran said:
    Gutlard said:
    I'm not sure what EGS is doing is any different than consoles have been doing from the beginning. I DL'd the launcher a while back (for free) when they were giving away Shadow Complex, and haven't looked back. 

    I'm not worried about their lack of features, because I don't use any of that shit on Steam either. Let me know when the feature creep reaches an acceptable level, so I'm allowed to play.  ;) I'm not blown away by Origin or U-Play either, tbh.

    I buy games when they're on sale wherever. I add all these Free weekly games to my Epic Library to play whenever also, and a lot of them were on my Steam Wish List as well, so that saved a lot of money. The same with Twitch. Does Twitch get a free pass on the hate? Do they not have exclusive deals?

    I'm def not happy juggling all these services/apps/launchers/etc. but that's our world now until the pendulum swings back down toward more user friendly efficient tech, if it ever does.

    I couldn't even understand the argument even if we did have to pay for Launchers, because I'm so used to consoles being this way forever.

    I invested a lot of money in a PS4 specifically for all their great exclusives, and I've done the same for Nintendo systems. The investment in this argument is nothing but a few seconds of time, and a short DL, so it's just not the same. Buy the games wherever they're cheapest and nab as many free games as you can from everyone.

    Gut Out!
    For the benefit of folks such who don't read threads before replying, my response from page one.

    "Hmm, I've yet to download the Epic Launcher, but is that all I really have to do?

    Or do I also need to create a new account, create new user IDs, passwords, forum accounts, social media links, and set up a credit card to bill to?

    If it just is downloading a new launcher, great, but I suspect that is not the case."

    To do it right you need to create a new burner email account, generate and store new passwords in a password manager (which you first must log into).

    After all of this (more than a few seconds) now you've just shared a ton of PI with yet another company on the internet.

    These days I've been following the advice of several internet security analysts who recommend minimizing your exposure to as few places as truly necessary.


    Boohoo, you need to create an account, a task that takes less than 2 minutes even if you decide to create a burner mail for some reason. And even that is not really necessary as you can use an existing account from several different places. And a new credit card bill? Really?

    As for exposure - you are "exposing" a username, two "real" names that can be fake, an email and a country which again can be fake.
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 542
    Kyleran said:
    Err, pro tip, inconvenience is bad and something people go to great lengths or pay big money to avoid in life.

    Also, your Netflix example is poor, most of their exclusives are shows they pay to produce so of course they are only shown there. 

    Still, I only pay for Netflix, if Prime access wasn't a free benefit of my Amazon buying account, I wouldn't pay for a separate TV sub, who wants more than one service?


    Ah, but there's the rub.   Maybe you didn't continue your Prime because of Video, but how many people did?   They wouldn't be doing it for free if they didn't have metrics that tell them it's profitable.   They also wouldn't be shelling out the cash to capture movies exclusively if it didn't improve that bottom line.   So effectively, you are getting exclusive movies for free.

    The Netflix example wasn't just about their own created shows, they have others exclusively, too.  It's not advertised as much with them as it is others, but they do.  Have you ever noticed that you can find a movie on one service, but not the other?   I'd planned to watch the old Conan the Barbarian the other day.  I've seen it on Netflix before, and I happen to own it but was in my lab at the time.   Wasn't there.   Also, TopGun is no longer on Netflix, but you can find them on Hulu or Amazon Prime Video.
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 542
    evolgrinz said:
    I was excited about Satisfactory And Borderlands 3, thought I would just wait for Steam release, but I already feel my excitement for those 2 games dropping and I probably won't even buy them anymore when they finally do release on Steam.
    Would urge you to get Satisfactory.   Depending on what kind of games you like, of course.  As for me, my nephew and I have spent hours on that game and I don't think they're close to being done with it.
    TacticalZombeh
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 542
    mbrodie said:
    that aside as i said previously, can someone show me how to buy / install and play Atlas without steam, apparently steam has no exclusives but i can only buy / install and play Atlas through steam.

    it's funny how no one ever argues against this point because you can't.... you can't say steam doesn't have exclusives but Atlas is exclusively on steam and is not developed or published by Valve.

    The argument "it's only one game" also doesn't count... because 1 game is still 1 exclusive and there are more examples, i just can't be bothered finding out which games.
    You need Steam to download it, that's just the delivery mechanism...  I'm not sure, you might be able to download it from their website if you bought it there.

    That said, you definitely don't need Steam to play it.  Just browse out to the game and launch it.
  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 266
    mbrodie said:
    that aside as i said previously, can someone show me how to buy / install and play Atlas without steam, apparently steam has no exclusives but i can only buy / install and play Atlas through steam.

    it's funny how no one ever argues against this point because you can't.... you can't say steam doesn't have exclusives but Atlas is exclusively on steam and is not developed or published by Valve.

    The argument "it's only one game" also doesn't count... because 1 game is still 1 exclusive and there are more examples, i just can't be bothered finding out which games.
    You need Steam to download it, that's just the delivery mechanism...  I'm not sure, you might be able to download it from their website if you bought it there.

    That said, you definitely don't need Steam to play it.  Just browse out to the game and launch it.
    There doesn't seem to be an official game site and being able to launch the game as a stand-alone from the steam install folder hardly makes it not exclusive to steam.
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    MMORPG you can run 7 of these stories a week but you are not going to change anyone's mind on either side at this point so why not just live and let live. People don't want to use the shitty EGS store or support Sweenie The Weenie trying to muscle his way into the game store market.

     I think everyone gets skeptical as well when a journalist who is suppose to present a non biased bipartisan viewpoint overwhelmingly supports one side which at that point becomes counter productive to what you are trying to do which I'm sure is educate your reader , I think... . 
    zaberfangxEricDanie
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,475
    mbrodie said:
    that aside as i said previously, can someone show me how to buy / install and play Atlas without steam, apparently steam has no exclusives but i can only buy / install and play Atlas through steam.

    it's funny how no one ever argues against this point because you can't.... you can't say steam doesn't have exclusives but Atlas is exclusively on steam and is not developed or published by Valve.

    The argument "it's only one game" also doesn't count... because 1 game is still 1 exclusive and there are more examples, i just can't be bothered finding out which games.
    You need Steam to download it, that's just the delivery mechanism...  I'm not sure, you might be able to download it from their website if you bought it there.

    That said, you definitely don't need Steam to play it.  Just browse out to the game and launch it.
    you definitely can't buy it from anywhere but steam... even their own home page redirects you to steam.

    it is 100% a steam exclusive
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,475
    MMORPG you can run 7 of these stories a week but you are not going to change anyone's mind on either side at this point so why not just live and let live. People don't want to use the shitty EGS store or support Sweenie The Weenie trying to muscle his way into the game store market.

     I think everyone gets skeptical as well when a journalist who is suppose to present a non biased bipartisan viewpoint overwhelmingly supports one side which at that point becomes counter productive to what you are trying to do which I'm sure is educate your reader , I think... . 
    if that was true, publishers wouldn't be happy with sales they have got from the epic store, but please continue to weave your own narrative to make yourself happy.
    elveone
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,298
    MMORPG you can run 7 of these stories a week but you are not going to change anyone's mind on either side at this point so why not just live and let live. People don't want to use the shitty EGS store or support Sweenie The Weenie trying to muscle his way into the game store market.

     I think everyone gets skeptical as well when a journalist who is suppose to present a non biased bipartisan viewpoint overwhelmingly supports one side which at that point becomes counter productive to what you are trying to do which I'm sure is educate your reader , I think... . 
    It's an opinion piece. These have been in newspapers for a long time. Not sure what the issue is.
    JeffSpicolielveoneRed_ThomasTacticalZombeh



  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,883
    Sovrath said:
    MMORPG you can run 7 of these stories a week but you are not going to change anyone's mind on either side at this point so why not just live and let live. People don't want to use the shitty EGS store or support Sweenie The Weenie trying to muscle his way into the game store market.

     I think everyone gets skeptical as well when a journalist who is suppose to present a non biased bipartisan viewpoint overwhelmingly supports one side which at that point becomes counter productive to what you are trying to do which I'm sure is educate your reader , I think... . 
    It's an opinion piece. These have been in newspapers for a long time. Not sure what the issue is.
    The issue is Epic getting something else then hate, some people find that difficult to understand.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    elveone
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,070
    edited August 9
    I think people are conflating the idea of concerns about game exclusives with the exclusivity of different platforms. That's not at issue here and only if some retailers were offering say exclusive Nintendo titles would there be any similarity.

    If I were to bring up the idea that platforms make titles exclusive it would only be for one console, the Xbox. Until then Microsoft made games for the PC, hardly surprising they did the operating sytem after all. Suddenly it decided to make a console and switch the baulk of its games production to the Xbox. In effect that was the creation of "exclusive" content by creating a new platform. Indeed I believe MS still do store exclusives to this day, I am not certain because I stopped using MS store as soon as I realised they did exclusives.
    EricDanie

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • elveoneelveone Member RarePosts: 266
    MMORPG you can run 7 of these stories a week but you are not going to change anyone's mind on either side at this point so why not just live and let live. People don't want to use the shitty EGS store or support Sweenie The Weenie trying to muscle his way into the game store market.

     I think everyone gets skeptical as well when a journalist who is suppose to present a non biased bipartisan viewpoint overwhelmingly supports one side which at that point becomes counter productive to what you are trying to do which I'm sure is educate your reader , I think... . 
    Why not live and let live? Good question that should perhaps be asked of people who turn store timed exclusivity announcements into controversies. Until then there will be a vast public for this kind of articles that would draw both sides of the argument.
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 542
    MMORPG you can run 7 of these stories a week but you are not going to change anyone's mind on either side at this point so why not just live and let live. People don't want to use the shitty EGS store or support Sweenie The Weenie trying to muscle his way into the game store market.

     I think everyone gets skeptical as well when a journalist who is suppose to present a non biased bipartisan viewpoint overwhelmingly supports one side which at that point becomes counter productive to what you are trying to do which I'm sure is educate your reader , I think... . 
    Not a journalist and don't think I ever said it was non-biased.   I'm a business owner, so I'm nearly always going to be on the side of good business.

    Besides, it's an OPINION piece.... doesn't that kind of imply a bias?  How do you not have a bias and still have an opinion.    I'm not sure that word means what you think it means.
    elveoneJeffSpicoli
  • Red_ThomasRed_Thomas Member RarePosts: 542
    elveone said:
    There doesn't seem to be an official game site and being able to launch the game as a stand-alone from the steam install folder hardly makes it not exclusive to steam.
    I wasn't saying it wasn't exclusive.   He was just asking how he could play it without Steam, and I was saying that you can launch it directly without Steam.
  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,795
    edited August 9
    mbrodie said:
    mbrodie said:
    that aside as i said previously, can someone show me how to buy / install and play Atlas without steam, apparently steam has no exclusives but i can only buy / install and play Atlas through steam.

    it's funny how no one ever argues against this point because you can't.... you can't say steam doesn't have exclusives but Atlas is exclusively on steam and is not developed or published by Valve.

    The argument "it's only one game" also doesn't count... because 1 game is still 1 exclusive and there are more examples, i just can't be bothered finding out which games.
    You need Steam to download it, that's just the delivery mechanism...  I'm not sure, you might be able to download it from their website if you bought it there.

    That said, you definitely don't need Steam to play it.  Just browse out to the game and launch it.
    you definitely can't buy it from anywhere but steam... even their own home page redirects you to steam.

    it is 100% a steam exclusive
    Excisive is when a company pays a Dev to stay on their store. If you can show me that Steam buying games to make any games 100% exclusive that makes dev have to stay on their store only. A lot the dev will pick steam due to more option for players to share their game around, and a lot more buying their games. If was all about the % cost they would move to discord offer 10% for months befor epic.
    elveoneRed_ThomasEricDanieGinaz
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 953
    mbrodie said:

    you definitely can't buy it from anywhere but steam... even their own home page redirects you to steam.

    it is 100% a steam exclusive
    Excisive is when a company pays a Dev to stay on their store. If you can show me that Steam buying games to make any games 100% exclusive that makes dev have to stay on their store only. A lot the dev will pick steam due to more option for players to share their game around, and a lot more buying their games. If was all about the % cost they would move to discord offer 10% for months befor epic.
    If you have to redefine words to make your argument - you have a bad argument.  Cobra Kai is an exclusive to YoutTube Prime.  The Boys is exclusive to Prime.  Stranger Things and Netflix, etc.  

    Exclusive content is THE very specific way of getting people join a platform.  It is not bad business practice, its pretty much the only working business practice for market share penetration.  I would have never even heard of CBS all Access if it wasn't for Star Trek Discovery.  


    My little boy was telling me a bunch of famous video game players just left one platform for another because of various reasons.  Anyone who doesn't think wherever they went didn't have some sort of deal worked out with them is insane, and it will cause massive amounts of people to join that other platform.  


    Another kid earlier also tried to redefine monopoly.  Steam and google are monopolies.  Google has control of 92% of internet searches in the west, they are now making search engine alternatives to Google bid for the right of being on androids in Europe.  There is a much stronger case to break up the Google monopoly than Teddy had for breaking up the ones he did, or for the communications (telephone) one that happened when I was a kid.  

    Kids are mad because they like steam and only want to use steam.  That is not a good excuse for redefining words or supporting tech oligarch monopolies.  You people seem dead set on creating the dystopian future where megacorps control everything, minus all the cool shit of those settings like Magic and the cybernetics in Shadowrun.  You just want straight megacorp dystopian jackboots infused with a healthy dose of 1984 and Animal Farm.  

    Since I downloaded the Epic games thing they have given me tons of free games, that's another strategy to help penetrate the market.  There is zero wrong with what they are doing.  What they are doing is good for absolutely everyone - gamers, developers, and any other possible stakeholders.  Here is a link to a sound reasoned argument by the devs of Rebel galaxy Outlaw-

    https://rebel-galaxy.com/rebel-galaxy-outlaw-launching-on-epic-games-store-qa/

    Q) So that means it’s not going to launch on Steam or GoG? What gives?

    A) Yes, Rebel Galaxy Outlaw is going to be exclusively on the Epic Store for a while. Eventually it’ll make its way elsewhere. (Console releases are not tied to this)


    Q)
    You’re being a coy bastard. How long, and don’t be a weasel.

    A) 12 months from launch.

     

    Q) Exclusives are anti-consumer, why would you do this? (you monster)

    A) OK, so that’s a little complicated. And our answer is long-winded. Bear with us.

    So, before Valve and the 70/30 split it was pretty darn rough to be an indie (both in terms of royalty share and in terms of the ability to sell things without a publisher). We can all thank Valve for using their leverage to make that happen, and usher in the era we have now. We think it’s safe to say that a large percentage of the games made today wouldn’t exist without it.

    Epic is using their leverage to push that even farther, to 88/12. That’s another whole strata of developers who can survive.

    Would we like that to become the new standard?
    Yes.

    Can that be done without leverage?
    No.

    Is some form of exclusive content required to get the momentum to make that happen?
    Yes.

    And we’re willing to get on board to make that happen. The only way this gets any traction is with some exclusive content and we’re willing to be one of the canaries in the mineshaft.

    Do we hope there is a big upside for us? Sure. That’d be amazing. But we also hope this is the start of establishing a new standard.


    Q)
    That just means more money in your pocket, (you monster!!)

    A) I mean yes, ideally. It’s a new store right now though, and that prospect is more of a long term one. Right? But we really hope and suspect that in the long run this will be better for us financially. That’s how we make more and better stuff.


    Q)
    OK, maybe this is good for developers, but how is this good for customers? (still a monster)

    A) From our standpoint as customers, a curated store with a more limited selection of quality games is a plus. Having the ability for you to share your emails with us (optionally) so we can communicate directly with you is hopefully also a plus for you. Competition for Steam is a plus. And in the longer term, achieving Epic’s goals on the royalty front means more developers succeeding and surviving and making more good stuff. That’s a longer play, but we think it’s still meaningful.

    Moreover, it doesn’t remove Steam or other stores from the equation. We’ve all got big Steam libraries that aren’t going anywhere. Yes, this is exclusive right now, but that’s all sort of bound up in the store’s launch and this specific point in time.


    Q)
    What about regional pricing?

    A) From Epic: Regional pricing is currently live with 8 currencies (Brazil & Argentina are still USD) – but more currencies will be added early 2019. As of today, Epic currently supports local pricing in USD, Great British Pound, Euro, Polish Zloty, Russian Ruble, South Korean Won, Japanese Yen, Turkish Lira, and Ukrainian Hryvnia.


    Q)
    What about refunds?

    A) According to the Epic FAQ, at present-
    “We will offer two no-questions-asked refunds per player within two weeks of purchase.”


    Q)
    Are you doing this because you’re salty at Valve for some reason?

    A) No. We love & respect the folks at Valve. This is just an opportunity we couldn’t pass up.


    Q)
    So I have to have another launcher running in the background all the time? Hell no!
    A)
    Offline games (which Rebel Galaxy Outlaw is) can be played offline without the launcher. In the future, when achievements and stats come online, you’d need to be logged in to benefit from that.


    elveoneRed_Thomas
  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,206
    edited August 9
    Ginaz said:
    I HIGHLY doubt we'll be seeing any price reductions as a direct result of exclusives.  Any and all extra money made/saved by developers will go back to them and will NOT result in lower prices for consumers.  When has this ever happened for any other product?  Companies cut costs and pocket the savings.  Always. 

    It's kind of a disappointing, but expected I guess, seeing most "games journalists" supporting, even tacitly, the trend to more exclusives and other anti-consumer practices by game companies and developers.  It's so hard to tell these days who's who as there is a real problem with the incestuous type of relationship "games journalists" have with developers.  One day you're a "journalist"  the next you're a developer or working for one.
    Wow.  Going right in for those ad hominem attacks, I see.  Very erudite of you.  For one, I am not and have never claimed to be a journalist.  For another, I would never work for a game developer because they couldn't afford me on their budgets.

    As far as the cost savings of exclusives, you see it all the time.  How much did you pay to watch Game of Thrones?  Was it maybe free with your HBO subscription?  Maybe you played Anthem or BF5 for free with your Origin Access?  Those are just easy examples.

    And by the way, you clearly don't really understand basic economics.   It's not the company saving money that they magically decide to give back to the consumer.  Of course that doesn't happen, that's ridiculous.   But when there's competition, that's when they find ways to lower their price point to undercut the competition.   For instance, if I'm saving 15% using Epic, I might cut my price 5-10% to help encourage more traffic over to my game on the new distribution service.  I still come out ahead, the consumer saves a little cash, and Epic gets a little more traffic and more users.
    Nothing is "free" when it comes to subscription based services.  I paid a fee to HBO through my cable company to watch GoT (I really didn't watch anything else) and I did actually play Anthem through Origin access at launch (dodged a bullet there having only paid about $20 for the month).  Currently, I have a sub to the new XBox PC beta thing.  It's a great deal, esp. the first month only being $1, and I'm really enjoying Gears of War 4 right now.  I've bought games directly from Ubisoft and bought Witcher 3 from GoG (CD Project Red owns GoG) and I'll be purchasing Cyberpunk 2077 from GoG, too.  I don't mind paying the actual content creators (HBO, EA, MS etc.) for their services even though it is exclusive to their platforms because THEY created the product.  It's theirs and they can do what they like with it. 

    The problem with Epic is that they're buying up exclusivity from other content creators using some pretty questionable methods.  Notice how quite a few of the indie games they bought up were crowdfunded beforehand with promises to release on multiple platforms only for the developers to pull the rug out from under their customers once they got that Epic money?  A few of them (I know the Phoenix Point dev was one for sure) straight up said that even if everyone refunded their pledges, they would still make more money with what Epic gave them.  They're basically telling people "Yeah, thanks for giving us enough money for a proof of concept to present to Epic but now we don't need you so if you don't like what we've done too bad, sucka!".  Lets not forget that Metro 2033 Exodus was advertising their game as being available on Steam and taking pre-orders almost up until their release date even though they knew they would release exclusively on EGS.  They used Steam as free advertising.  Add all that to the rest of the shady shit Epic has been involved with (I won't even get into their association with their ChiCom overlords at Tencent) and it's really hard to see how anyone can say Epic is "good" for the gaming industry or consumers. 

    Also, please point out to me a game being sold on EGS that now costs customers 5-10% less than before.  If the move to EGS actually results in a lower price than you might have a point.  But it hasn't, so you don't.
    elveone

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,883
    edited August 9
        No Steam No Buy .....

      Simple reason for me , I want to keep all my games on Steam ( have over 3k titles now)

      There is no incentive to go elsewhere , particularly to a vastly inferior platform ..

     Even the games Epic gives away , i would rather pay on Steam to keep one Library
    elveoneJeffSpicoli
Sign In or Register to comment.