I remember spending hour typing in LFG in vanilla wow, just waiting for the last person to fill a dungeon group. That is not fun.
I highly doubt people that run pug dungeon everyday are against LFG.
Fast forward to GW2. There was no LFG in games tool at the start. But people end up using LFG "website" anyway. So in the end, it don't matter. If the game dont' provide it, people will make their own tools to do it.
The reason people want to blast through dungeon is because they have limited time "and" many of them are people who run the same dungeon hundred of times. In GW2, there are dungeon which I repeated over 1000+ times. If you run the same thing over and over, you kind of want it to be efficient.
I think the problem is due to pug can have various players with different experience. Many new comers get disheartened when they play with experienced players who "expect them to know what to do". In the end the experienced players get upset they get placed with newbies which make the dungeon much longer.
Eww sounds like terrible gameplay. Each to their own.
The LFG system was actually relatively controversial when it was implemented, sparked a lot of debate about the relevance of the open world component for the game since it was the initial step towards a lot of queue focused gameplay.
You mean debate on this forum or Wow/GW2 forum?
If you mean debating on this forum... ya, people are still debating it now.
But on Wow/GW2 forum, pretty much everyone want it. It is so lopsided, there is no debate.
And today is not 2007 when the aforementioned concerns were initially levied.
Of course, convenience combined with path of least resistance won out over building a more complex simulated/virtual world.
It still does with games recently released. Shroud of the Avatar started with a more complex and "realistic" simulation of their world. That died fast due to player complaint.
Banks were initially treated as distinct locations, with each only having the items directly stored there. Now, it has a global bank like everything else.
Towns under siege initially required you to fight your way through before you could enter. Now, you can opt to bypass that entirely.
Heavily guarded bottlenecks between regions used to make travel between them difficult, with the only other option being travel by moongate (by far the slowest "fast" travel I've seen in a game.) Now you can wander through those same passages unhindered, and can teleport to any region you have visited provided you have the needed scroll type in inventory pretty much at whim.
With all that, a lot of the flavour of the setting was lost, and a game intended to be more like earlier MMORPGs became largely similar to recent ones instead.
It is hard to take people's cellphones once they have them. Same with gaming features.
It's like asking - why aren't niche games more popular?
Something niche is great -> that thing becomes popular -> the niche thing is changed. It's the circle of monetary life. The more something becomes popular, the more it changes, and the more of its essence it loses. It's not rocket surgery.
I'm not interested in instant gratification. I'm not interested in lobby shooters or playing the next big game in the streaming scene.
I'm interested in old school game systems and mechanics that require interdependence but with updated visuals and combat that sticks with traditional tab target. What are my options for that?
It's like asking - why aren't niche games more popular?
Something niche is great -> that thing becomes popular -> the niche thing is changed. It's the circle of monetary life. The more something becomes popular, the more it changes, and the more of its essence it loses. It's not rocket surgery.
I'm not interested in instant gratification. I'm not interested in lobby shooters or playing the next big game in the streaming scene.
I'm interested in old school game systems and mechanics that require interdependence but with updated visuals and combat that sticks with traditional tab target. What are my options for that?
Well, for starters, you have......um..... ...........and then there's ............. and if you don't like that you can always play............... Yep, and the list continues with................ And finally..................
The LFG system was actually relatively controversial when it was implemented, sparked a lot of debate about the relevance of the open world component for the game since it was the initial step towards a lot of queue focused gameplay.
I was there when it was implemented (ICC Patch in WoTLK, IIRC). It wasn't controversial at all.
The LFG panel was implemented back in the update 2 cycle, things like heirloom and transmog came later in 3 and 4 respectively. LFG was a leading element into this, not the flip. It came out prior to the launch of WOTLK, it was a BC feature which turned into the dungeon finder in 3 during WOTLK.
Prior to that, yes, people actually had to travel around the game world to reach zones and commit to certain dungeons. Unless you were planning to grind the same dungeon for a while, it meant there was actual offset to doing dungeon grinds that you had to weigh against other methods of leveling. when LFG got globalized and then shunted into the interface, it immediately pushed it into people much more readily pugging dungeons on loop assuming they had a warlock in party.
That did spark a good amount of debate over the value of the open world element of WoW, as it was a clear abandonment to some players at that point and had a strong division of opinion between those that wanted more world content and those that wanted the more convenient systems/methods.
Could have at least stopped to check wowpedia or something before making your claim.
And you want to use other people "misremembering" things as an excuse?
LFG wasn't in the game until they introduced the ICC patch with the new dungeons. It came in the WoW 3.3 update. WTF are you talking about?
"Patch 3.3.0: Fall of the Lich King is a content patch that includes the new Icecrown Citadel raid as well as its three 5-player dungeon wings in the Frozen Halls. "
The Cross Realm Dungeon Finder came in that patch. The issue was not the fact that it had a Dungeon Finder, but how the dungeon finder was implemented. It basically took randoms from different server in a battlegroup and put them in a party... and when it was over the people not on your server disappeared....
That was the only problem with the DF. Outside of that, the community was askign for it. Go look at the forum archives from that point in time, and you'll see this. Take a seat.
The thing that people are irate about is CRG. And they still complain about it to this day. LFG was nothing more than a nice QoL improvement.
But I don't see how Blizzard could have done it any other way, unless they decided to start merging servers (what SOE did with EQ servers).
Traveling form dungeon to dungeon isn't making the game world any better. People had flying mounts in BC... They were skipping all of that. Also, the Summoning stones were a thing, IIRC, as were Warlocks. Not to mention WoW's "fast travel system" has been there forever. The open world has never really been that big of a deal...
WoW is not EverQuest, where even if you wanted to be summoned (Call of the Hero) you literally had to travel to inside the zone for it to work...
You just wrote all that and didn't even realize your mistake. I even pointed it out in that comment you quoted. We were talking about the LFG panel (which again came out during 2), and all you keep talking about is the Dungeon Finder.
All you keep talking about was things that followed after what I'd mentioned, and not the already shifting situation that was being discussed which led to the Dungeon Finder.
Once you correct your continued mistakes and catch up, then maybe we can have a rational discussion. Perhaps try re-reading the post you quoted to and pay attention to what you missed.
I play old MMORPG.. it's like coming back home whatever I tried to play after few months I get bored and quit.. while I choose new game I come back to OLD MMORPG again
Comments
Something niche is great -> that thing becomes popular -> the niche thing is changed. It's the circle of monetary life. The more something becomes popular, the more it changes, and the more of its essence it loses. It's not rocket surgery.
I'm not interested in instant gratification. I'm not interested in lobby shooters or playing the next big game in the streaming scene.
I'm interested in old school game systems and mechanics that require interdependence but with updated visuals and combat that sticks with traditional tab target. What are my options for that?
...........and then there's .............
and if you don't like that you can always play...............
Yep, and the list continues with................
And finally..................
That about covers it.....did I miss any?
WoW 3.3 update: https://duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=https://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_3.3.0
"Patch 3.3.0: Fall of the Lich King is a content patch that includes the new Icecrown Citadel raid as well as its three 5-player dungeon wings in the Frozen Halls. "
The Cross Realm Dungeon Finder came in that patch. The issue was not the fact that it had a Dungeon Finder, but how the dungeon finder was implemented. It basically took randoms from different server in a battlegroup and put them in a party... and when it was over the people not on your server disappeared....
That was the only problem with the DF. Outside of that, the community was askign for it. Go look at the forum archives from that point in time, and you'll see this. Take a seat.
The thing that people are irate about is CRG. And they still complain about it to this day. LFG was nothing more than a nice QoL improvement.
But I don't see how Blizzard could have done it any other way, unless they decided to start merging servers (what SOE did with EQ servers).
Traveling form dungeon to dungeon isn't making the game world any better. People had flying mounts in BC... They were skipping all of that. Also, the Summoning stones were a thing, IIRC, as were Warlocks. Not to mention WoW's "fast travel system" has been there forever. The open world has never really been that big of a deal...
WoW is not EverQuest, where even if you wanted to be summoned (Call of the Hero) you literally had to travel to inside the zone for it to work...
As was stated "...it was a BC feature which turned into the dungeon finder in 3 during WOTLK..."
Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/481852/if-old-school-mmos-were-better-why-arent-they-still-the-most-popular/p11#Y3KLfsar7plzR9Td.99
All you keep talking about was things that followed after what I'd mentioned, and not the already shifting situation that was being discussed which led to the Dungeon Finder.
Once you correct your continued mistakes and catch up, then maybe we can have a rational discussion. Perhaps try re-reading the post you quoted to and pay attention to what you missed.