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Buying Every Game Because It's New

NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,988
Do you think we as gamers have become pie charts in boardroom presentations?



My response to the question is that I believe studios know that we will literally buy anything in any condition, quality, or price model. With that data, they know exactly what they need (or don't need, aka "MVP") to turn a profit.

IMO, studios will never attempt to innovate, produce quality, or be reasonable with pricing models, if we keep rewarding them with our money without reservation.

We are predictable data now, not gamers.

We hold the power though. We could force change since the studios won't do it, by showing some will, restraint, and a little self-respect.

I know the odds are against us to bring this change. We have influencers/shills making money on Youtube and Twitch. Their followers are just that, followers, and will buy anything that the "cool guy streamer/content creator" tells them to. If we are only as strong as our weakest link, the "followers" are the weakest link.
Come home, North Man.

Rolling for Spicy.
TorvalReticulatarojoArcueidRich84sunandshadowScotAlBQuirkyHashbrickalkarionlogJeffSpicoli
«134

Comments

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,553
    I would think that a lot of game studios probably disagree with that as a lot of them have probably failed. The quality of games upon launch has changed but that is probably because the cost of them has gone up exponentially and you can no longer pay people 1-2 years of work and launch a polished game, now you probably need 2-3 years of work and then bills have to paid, etc. 

    I think the landscape has changed. EA for me is a way that game companies try to balance the outlandish cost of games by starting to get revenue at 67% completion instead of 100% of completion. It is probably an evolutionary pressure that has occurred on gaming companies that a lot of them have to do it to survive with a few exceptions (Blizzard). 
    NorseGod
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,988
    I would think that a lot of game studios probably disagree with that as a lot of them have probably failed. The quality of games upon launch has changed but that is probably because the cost of them has gone up exponentially and you can no longer pay people 1-2 years of work and launch a polished game, now you probably need 2-3 years of work and then bills have to paid, etc. 

    I think the landscape has changed. EA for me is a way that game companies try to balance the outlandish cost of games by starting to get revenue at 67% completion instead of 100% of completion. It is probably an evolutionary pressure that has occurred on gaming companies that a lot of them have to do it to survive with a few exceptions (Blizzard). 
    Ok, I can get behind you on this, but you need to define "failed". By who's standards or definition, ours or theirs? Both have completely different views on "failed".

    Generally speaking, we equate popularity or population into the question of success or failure. They equate breaking even or making a profit.

    Guess who's opinion matters most? Judging by the relentless flood of the same crap in a different wrapper, I'm going to say, the studios' definition.
    AlBQuirky
    Come home, North Man.

    Rolling for Spicy.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 792
    Companies are risk adverse. Modern games with top tier aesthetics are costly to make. These two elements assure that only games they feel are virtually certain to have mass appeal are going to be made.by the largest of producers.

    If you want something other than that, small independent developers are your best bet. Lower costs on their end along with a lower need and expectation of profit allow them to embrace risk much more readily, giving them a far greater range of creativity.
    NorseGodKylerantzervo
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,988
    Companies are risk adverse. Modern games with top tier aesthetics are costly to make. These two elements assure that only games they feel are virtually certain to have mass appeal are going to be made.by the largest of producers.

    If you want something other than that, small independent developers are your best bet. Lower costs on their end along with a lower need and expectation of profit allow them to embrace risk much more readily, giving them a far greater range of creativity.
    I agree, but my argument is that it doesn't have to be this way, if we pulled together. We gamers all want the same thing.

    If studios data shows that it's easier to "play it safe", then we can make it unsafe. And we do that by not rewarding them with money just because they released a re-skinned turd.

    We totally have the power to control the direction and practices of the genera. Yeah, there is an endless ocean of dumbasses that will still buy anything. But, losing 10-20% or more on your P&L statement is a huge deal to these studios.
    RueTheWhirlKyleran
    Come home, North Man.

    Rolling for Spicy.
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,988
    By the way, even though I agree with those who replied already, I'm not looking for a right or wrong answer to the question. I just wanted to provoke thought.
    Come home, North Man.

    Rolling for Spicy.
  • RueTheWhirlRueTheWhirl Member UncommonPosts: 28
    I've already been practicing this for some time now. Last MMORPG I actually purchased was 4 years ago. All those f2p, p2w mmo's have been paged over by me. I can't say the same for myself when it comes to psn deals. But, hey. Good post.
  • ReticulataReticulata Member UncommonPosts: 98
    It has become all about the initial cash grab business model. Companies got lazy and scammy, releasing endless unfinished and broken games. Players became desperate bunny hopping from shitty game to shitty game on Steam in a barren field of mmos with no immersion or meaningful content. Devs keep dangling that shiny carrot in front of their faces leading into the next big thing - cash  grab.

    Stop falling for it and starve the beast.


    NorseGod

    SOE changes name to Daybreak games, cause dey break games.
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,677
    I rarely buy anything these days.
    I have only so much time to go around, and already a huge collection of games to go through... so... they'll be sorely disappointed with this gamer ;D
    KyleranAlBQuirkyIselin

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 9,965
    edited July 21
    I only consider worth buying new fully developed good single player games.

    The nature of live service games makes them lose value really fast because not only there's not enough content for full price, all content is lost if servers die. Those factors alone are enough reason to wait for massive discounts on online games.

    EDIT: at least mmorpgs offer a lot of content for your investment, unlike the other live services.
    NorseGodAlBQuirky




  • BladeburaibaBladeburaiba Member UncommonPosts: 76
    When something becomes popular, the dynamics always change.  Companies can just look at charts because human behavior once past a certain threshold of population becomes incredibly predictable, and subject to influence.

    So the answer is yes, once games become mainstream culture, it's not a matter of getting them to buy, it's a matter getting them to buy yours and not the other guys.  You can shovel shit and still make it.  
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,410
    The Patient Gamers reddit sub is one of my favorites. https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/. The sub description is simply: The subreddit for patient gamers.

    For me, it's about taking a sensible no-hype approach to the hobby. The discussion forum is helpful in a practical way because people post their reviews, impressions, and feelings about games both pro and con.

    One great thing about the discussions is that low quality shit posting generally gets skipped over or downvoted. It's okay to like and not like something but people have to bring valid reasons to the table. For example, I read a thread on "What Remains of Edith Finch" and finally got to see well reasoned criticism of the game. It mostly got praise in the thread, but the flaws of the game and genre get touched on too. That is the practical stuff that helps me make decisions about what games I want to play.

    The sub tends not to discuss MMOs a lot, but they do come up. The same games don't often see new threads made about them unless the previous is a few months old. Also, all kinds of games and platforms are discussed. Right now some of the top threads are about Super Mario Land for the DS, Firewatch, Dishonored, and Witcher Series. People also ask questions about games or get advice on picking out gems in a large game backlog.

    So, that is how I have chosen to deal with the deafening hype train trying to mow down my hobby.
    Sovrathtzervo
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,870
    NorseGod said:
    Do you think we as gamers have become pie charts in boardroom presentations?



    My response to the question is that I believe studios know that we will literally buy anything in any condition, quality, or price model. With that data, they know exactly what they need (or don't need, aka "MVP") to turn a profit.

    IMO, studios will never attempt to innovate, produce quality, or be reasonable with pricing models, if we keep rewarding them with our money without reservation.

    We are predictable data now, not gamers.

    We hold the power though. We could force change since the studios won't do it, by showing some will, restraint, and a little self-respect.

    I know the odds are against us to bring this change. We have influencers/shills making money on Youtube and Twitch. Their followers are just that, followers, and will buy anything that the "cool guy streamer/content creator" tells them to. If we are only as strong as our weakest link, the "followers" are the weakest link.
    We are consumers we hold no power. If we did there would be a Faction based sandbox mmos. More levelless MMO theme park Sandbox hybrid by now. 
    Reticulata

    image

  • SirAgravaineSirAgravaine Member RarePosts: 513
    This post is unnecessary. Video games are entertainment platforms that drive profits. The developers that make them, do not make them for this reason. The companies that pay for, however, do. Games studios continue to innovate every year.
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,988
    NorseGod said:

    We are consumers we hold no power. If we did there would be a Faction based sandbox mmos. More levelless MMO theme park Sandbox hybrid by now. 
    Stop giving them money until they comply or go out of business giving a new studio a chance. Profit margins are very small, so we don't need 100% participation. Because lets face it, kiddies are going to kiddie.
    Come home, North Man.

    Rolling for Spicy.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 792
    NorseGod said:
    Companies are risk adverse. Modern games with top tier aesthetics are costly to make. These two elements assure that only games they feel are virtually certain to have mass appeal are going to be made.by the largest of producers.

    If you want something other than that, small independent developers are your best bet. Lower costs on their end along with a lower need and expectation of profit allow them to embrace risk much more readily, giving them a far greater range of creativity.
    I agree, but my argument is that it doesn't have to be this way, if we pulled together. We gamers all want the same thing.

    If studios data shows that it's easier to "play it safe", then we can make it unsafe. And we do that by not rewarding them with money just because they released a re-skinned turd.

    We totally have the power to control the direction and practices of the genera. Yeah, there is an endless ocean of dumbasses that will still buy anything. But, losing 10-20% or more on your P&L statement is a huge deal to these studios.
    If what used to be seen as a safe source of revenue was to become uncertain it will not compel companies to invest in projects even more uncertain in their view. Instead the larger companies that make games will simply be divested by the even larger companies that own them, with those assets then devoted to more certain revenue sources. The only thing left remaining would be the smaller studios that already function with things as they are now.

    Such a tactic is doomed to failure, assuming enough players could be convinced to act in concert long enough for their efforts to have any impact at all, which is highly unlikely.

    Gamers don't have the power you believe.

    They are not skilled workers difficult to replace collectively fighting for the livelihood, which gives unions their strength. They are not a downtrodden people fighting for personal rights under an oppressive regime, that will weather any storm for freedom.

    They are a collection of hobbyists that will drop the "cause" as soon as the next game released that draws their interest comes along. The stakes are not personal or high enough for any such effort to be resolute enough to produce lasting change.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,283
    NorseGod said:

    We gamers all want the same thing.

    What, wut?  Where did you get this information from? Is there some sort of poll which I missed as I don't recall voting.

    Developers have no idea what gamers want, but they do know what gamers purchase.

    Makes sense they would continue to keep making games similar to what has succeeded previously,  what other hard data do they have?

    Which is why it's a fallacy to think if you and 20% of other gamers all stop buying it will result in devs creating a game you guys will all like.

    Gamers by and large stopped buying and paying for AAA MMORPGs and quite predictably, such games have largely stopped being made while everyone and their brother falls over themselves to make BRs.


    Azaron_Nightblade

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,988
    Kyleran said:
    NorseGod said:

    We gamers all want the same thing.

    What, wut?  Where did you get this information from? Is there some sort of poll which I missed as I don't recall voting.

    Developers have no idea what gamers want, but they do know what gamers purchase.

    Makes sense they would continue to keep making games similar to what has succeeded previously,  what other hard data do they have?

    Which is why it's a fallacy to think if you and 20% of other gamers all stop buying it will result in devs creating a game you guys will all like.

    Gamers by and large stopped buying and paying for AAA MMORPGs and quite predictably, such games have largely stopped being made while everyone and their brother falls over themselves to make BRs.



    I think when I wrote that, I was thinking about innovation, quality, and a reasonable pricing model.

    BRs are for those console mouth-breathers. Who cares what they want, they were never invited in the first place.

    With that being said...


    ArteriusScotAzaron_Nightblade
    Come home, North Man.

    Rolling for Spicy.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,793
    NorseGod said:


    We hold the power though. We could force change since the studios won't do it, by showing some will, restraint, and a little self-respect.

    I know the odds are against us to bring this change. We have influencers/shills making money on Youtube and Twitch. Their followers are just that, followers, and will buy anything that the "cool guy streamer/content creator" tells them to. If we are only as strong as our weakest link, the "followers" are the weakest link.
    hmmm do you buy every game?

    If you don't then might there also be other people who don't buy every game once it comes out?

    Also, who is to say that those people who are buying these games AREN'T enjoying them?

    This goes back to what I always say on this subject "we are not a club." I don't want to be part of a gamer union or band together because of game injustice because quite frankly, from where I sit, it's silly.

    If I listened to every person who got up on a pedestal to tell my why I shouldn't buy x, y and z I'd never buy anything.

    There are so many games that I did buy and did enjoy that other players thought less of and I'm glad I did.

    My guess is that people will buy games they enjoy, and will eventually get tired of throwing their money way because they didn't do enough research.

    Still, I have to say sometimes you just have to experience a game for yourself. I didn't buy Darkest Dungeon because of what others said and then eventually did and loved it. I did buy Bloodstained, Ritual from the night and learned that it's a good game that's just not my taste. Don't regret it and I learned something about myself. I think people should find their own way in these things.
    NorseGodtzervo



  • UtinniUtinni Member RarePosts: 825
    I think this concept applies to any business that sells a product. Only niche companies can design a product with 100% passion/purpose and still survive. These are usually extremely exclusive and expensive like hypercar manufacturers, high end fashion, bleeding edge restaurants.
    Sovrath
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,687
    I buy lots of games, at least 2 to 3 a month. Why? Because there is so much good stuff out there it is unbelievable. The MMORPG landscape might be a bit barren, the rest of the gaming world isn’t. Gaming is in a very good place right now, you can even skip all EA titles if you want and there is still more then enough to last you a lifetime. 

    I buy games because I like them, I don’t think there is anybody out there that does it for another reason. Are they all amazing? Nope but a lot are. Not every movie/play/concert I attend is amazing, that doesn’t mean I stop going. Not every meal in a restaurant is amazing, that doesn’t mean I stop going. Not every country I visit is amazing, that doesn’t mean I stop travelling. You get the idea.

    There are more good games out there then I can ever play, I can’t believe some are starved for one, perhaps standards are unrealistic or, with an exception or two, you actually don’t like games to begin with, or not anymore.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir


    Arterius
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,213
    edited July 21
    When younger i bought a lot of games,didn't know one way or another if i was paying for fair value or not.
    Now i buy only what i am looking for,i have specific types of game designs i look for and that is it.

    The hobby of gaming has run very dry,the only innovation are really bad,cheap games,including the likes of the Clash of type games,the simple loot shooters and the real simple cheap games like the Team Tactics,Dota chess crap.

    Most of these games would cost the developers very little to make,very little time investment,very little effort.Oh but they are all mostly f2p,yep for a reason,nobody with half a brain would pay for them.

    I already have a game/s to play in ever genre i want to play,so now only games that can surpass what i already have will make the cut.I am not buying into LESSER products or half assed mmorpg's that do basically the same thing as games i already have,nope i want better.

    To me gaming is like your used car,would you trade it in for a lesser car or an identical car of exact same value only you have to spend more money to make the trade?No you would stick with what you got,unless you just like throwing money around.What the market looks like to me is like real life,people get paid and immediately run out and buy some lotto tickets,a case of beer,head off to Wallmart for no reason than to simply find something to spend money on.Used to be a heavy dose of people get paid....let's go over the boarder to spend loads of money.A new cell phone just came out,i must buy it,the trends happen over and over everyday,people are addicted to spending money foolishly.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,283
    edited July 21
    Sovrath said:
    NorseGod said:





    If I listened to every person who got up on a pedestal to tell my why I shouldn't buy x, y and z I'd never buy anything.


    Huh.  I just realized in 2019 I've actually purchased zero games to date.

    Last game I did buy was FO76 at launch  last year. (We all make an occasional mistake)

    So clearly I'm not contributing much to "the problem." (Unlike "some" people, ahem)

    ;)


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 1,376
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:
    NorseGod said:





    If I listened to every person who got up on a pedestal to tell my why I shouldn't buy x, y and z I'd never buy anything.


    Huh.  I just realized in 2019 I've actually purchased zero games to date.

    Last game I did buy was FO76 at launch  last year.

    So clearly I'm not contributing much to "the problem." (Unlike "some" people, ahem)

    ;)


    Its ok I have bought enough games for the both of us. 30 at least and 90% of them will be put on a backlog
    KyleranTorval
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,283
    Arterius said:
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:
    NorseGod said:





    If I listened to every person who got up on a pedestal to tell my why I shouldn't buy x, y and z I'd never buy anything.


    Huh.  I just realized in 2019 I've actually purchased zero games to date.

    Last game I did buy was FO76 at launch  last year.

    So clearly I'm not contributing much to "the problem." (Unlike "some" people, ahem)

    ;)


    Its ok I have bought enough games for the both of us. 30 at least and 90% of them will be put on a backlog
    Ah ha. Hey Norse, I think I've identified a clear source of "the problem". It's all Atrerius's fault.

    ;)
    NorseGodArterius

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 1,376
    Kyleran said:
    Arterius said:
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:
    NorseGod said:





    If I listened to every person who got up on a pedestal to tell my why I shouldn't buy x, y and z I'd never buy anything.


    Huh.  I just realized in 2019 I've actually purchased zero games to date.

    Last game I did buy was FO76 at launch  last year.

    So clearly I'm not contributing much to "the problem." (Unlike "some" people, ahem)

    ;)


    Its ok I have bought enough games for the both of us. 30 at least and 90% of them will be put on a backlog
    Ah ha. Hey Norse, I think I've identified a clear source of "the problem". It's all Atrerius's fault.

    ;)
    Hey I will own it. Its like someone said above their are alot of good games coming out and the field I work in is competitive and cut throat. I could be looking for work at any minute. So I put money away just in case and I buy the things I want  with the rest that way if something does happen then I have enough games to play. 
    Kyleran
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