Ancient graphics and animations, clunky UI. Classic WOW is the only Old School MMO which is still playable...just.
We need a modern EQ, DAOC, UO, SWG, AO and a new WoW with Classic mechanics.
Those games should cover the whole spectrum of the MMO universe. I don’t think we need any more than those. MMORPGs are a niche, they always meant to be.
I'd add AC, COH, EVE, SB, L1, FFXI to cover the full spectrum.
Here's the thing, not much chance of any of those being resurrected in the manner you suggest, spiritual successors is what might happen at best.
As I see it, here's the current comparison to date. (Going to need some help I think)
AC - Project Gorgon AO - COH - Ship of Heroes, City of Titans, Valance Online. DAOC - ESO, CU EQ1 - Pantheon, SOL EVE - FFXI - L1 - SB - Crowfall SWG - UO - SotA, Legends of Aria, others? WOW ‐ Classic
Can't quite figure if AOC, SC or Dual Universe fit in somewhere above, only in a small way if so probably.
No Neocron or Face of Mankind types? Q_Q
Guess technically Dual Universe and it's ilk are sort of the evolution of those.
Umm just to point out that MANY of the older MMOS still have thousands of players. While most are no longer publishing player numbers a little research into investor reports can show that games like Anarchy Online and Everquest still have thousands and thousands of subscribers.
First of all "thousands" and "many" is pretty anecdotal. But even if true, would you consider them popular within the genre where hundreds of thousands if not millions are playing popular modern MMOs? Even if the answer is a factual yes.....are they "the most popular"? (literally quoted from the subject line).
The answer is no.
As for the people you speak of playing those older MMO's that are still around....the question was never meant for them in the first place. I wanted to ask the guy playing Guild Wars 2 talking how Daoc was the best MMO ever made.....well why aren't you still playing it then? Simple as that really. Because I AM that guy.
Umm just to point out that MANY of the older MMOS still have thousands of players. While most are no longer publishing player numbers a little research into investor reports can show that games like Anarchy Online and Everquest still have thousands and thousands of subscribers.
First of all "thousands" and "many" is pretty anecdotal. But even if true, would you consider them popular within the genre where hundreds of thousands if not millions are playing popular modern MMOs? Even if the answer is a factual yes.....are they "the most popular"? (literally quoted from the subject line).
The answer is no.
As for the people you speak of playing those older MMO's that are still around....the question was never meant for them in the first place. I wanted to ask the guy playing Guild Wars 2 talking how Daoc was the best MMO ever made.....well why aren't you still playing it then? Simple as that really. Because I AM that guy.
The simple answer is that those old MMOs changed their basic designs to be "more like" modern MMOs. Some players play on private servers, but those are not nearly as "popular" as the retail servers of old. That's the boat I'm in.
Another factor is that society and video gaming changed. Many more choices with competition for players' time.
I'll be honest and say that the old MMORPGs I played were not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but their "concepts and designs" were immensely better for my personal tastes than today's offerings. Others have differing opinions
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Ancient graphics and animations, clunky UI. Classic WOW is the only Old School MMO which is still playable...just.
We need a modern EQ, DAOC, UO, SWG, AO and a new WoW with Classic mechanics.
Those games should cover the whole spectrum of the MMO universe. I don’t think we need any more than those. MMORPGs are a niche, they always meant to be.
I'd add AC, COH, EVE, SB, L1, FFXI to cover the full spectrum.
Here's the thing, not much chance of any of those being resurrected in the manner you suggest, spiritual successors is what might happen at best.
As I see it, here's the current comparison to date. (Going to need some help I think)
AC - Project Gorgon AO - COH - Ship of Heroes, City of Titans, Valance Online. DAOC - ESO, CU EQ1 - Pantheon, SOL EVE - FFXI - L1 - SB - Crowfall SWG - UO - SotA, Legends of Aria, others? WOW ‐ Classic
Can't quite figure if AOC, SC or Dual Universe fit in somewhere above, only in a small way if so probably.
No Neocron or Face of Mankind types? Q_Q
Guess technically Dual Universe and it's ilk are sort of the evolution of those.
Neocron... *Riddick smile*
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
RPG also comes down to classes themselves as well. When is the last time you play a MMO that a class mattered? My guess its not one thats come out in the past 10 years. Every class can be swapped for another and the label of Tank, Healer and DPS has become watered down as well.
Used to be, Healers, DPS, Tank, Support/CC. Gamers often picking classes they liked for the role and need of each class. Picking a class also means you needed to be highly skilled as a gamer to play that role. Walking into a team and seeing an enchanter or a bard, you knew how that changed the dynamic of your team and adjusted your play style. Someone new joins your team in a modern MMO, it does not change anyone's play style. Keep mashing the same hotkeys.
RPG also comes down to classes themselves as well. When is the last time you play a MMO that a class mattered? My guess its not one thats come out in the past 10 years. Every class can be swapped for another and the label of Tank, Healer and DPS has become watered down as well.
Used to be, Healers, DPS, Tank, Support/CC. Gamers often picking classes they liked for the role and need of each class. Picking a class also means you needed to be highly skilled as a gamer to play that role. Walking into a team and seeing an enchanter or a bard, you knew how that changed the dynamic of your team and adjusted your play style. Someone new joins your team in a modern MMO, it does not change anyone's play style. Keep mashing the say hotkeys.
I'm not so sure I miss those old days of class/role locking that came with either no respec opportunity or very limited ones.
Considering how long it used to take to level characters in those old games you could put a lot of time and effort into developing a class/role before you even got to do the kind of content where you finally figured out how the class was supposed to be played... and then you were stuck with it.
Having to redo the grind all over again for the class/role you now knew fit your style better was a pain in the ass.
Rift was actually a breath of fresh air in that regard giving each class many different "souls" that supported a variety of play styles and roles.
And modern MMOs like ESO continue that trend which is IMO a good thing.
I'm also not crazy about the DPS AOE spam fests a lot of the newer MMOs heavily cater to but that's a different issue from class/role locking.
Class flexibility is a very good thing. AOE spam everywhere all the time is not.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
However, the reason you originally stop playing is that new things come out and you are in perpetual search for the "new" feeling. The feeling of discovery...
With that said, I play EQ because it has mechanics that allows me to be social. Try having a conversation in one of the "action" MMO's ... it just leads to sub-par play.
RPG also comes down to classes themselves as well. When is the last time you play a MMO that a class mattered? My guess its not one thats come out in the past 10 years. Every class can be swapped for another and the label of Tank, Healer and DPS has become watered down as well.
Used to be, Healers, DPS, Tank, Support/CC. Gamers often picking classes they liked for the role and need of each class. Picking a class also means you needed to be highly skilled as a gamer to play that role. Walking into a team and seeing an enchanter or a bard, you knew how that changed the dynamic of your team and adjusted your play style. Someone new joins your team in a modern MMO, it does not change anyone's play style. Keep mashing the say hotkeys.
I'm not so sure I miss those old days of class/role locking that came with either no respec opportunity or very limited ones.
Considering how long it used to take to level characters in those old games you could put a lot of time and effort into developing a class/role before you even got to do the kind of content where you finally figured out how the class was supposed to be played... and then you were stuck with it.
Having to redo the grind all over again for the class/role you now knew fit your style better was a pain in the ass.
Rift was actually a breath of fresh air in that regard giving each class many different "souls" that supported a variety of play styles and roles.
And modern MMOs like ESO continue that trend which is IMO a good thing.
I'm also not crazy about the DPS AOE spam fests a lot of the newer MMOs heavily cater to but that's a different issue from class/role locking.
Class flexibility is a very good thing. AOE spam everywhere all the time is not.
The time to level was to teach you how to play your role. Who needs that any more? I could learn a max level char in a few hours. Br really good at it in a week or two. I am looking for more an old school class system with a modern twist. I would like to be able to respec to play my role the way I want as I feel like play my class. ESO is awesome, its my current MMO of choice. Only been there a few weeks. Reading up on how to play my class, I do see the constant change that leads do that flavor of the month and the nerf bat that keep swinging.
Both system of total freedom and role locking have advantages and disadvantages. What I like about the role lock is you can come back a year later and pick up where you left off and not miss a beat. I have spent 3 weeks trying to learn ESO and I know I have not touched the tip of the iceberg. I still have a list of things I need to read up on as I am getting close to level 50. CP specs, gear sets and how that plays into PvP, PvE and what skills I need for each, to name a few. Thats allot of work over just jumping into a game and playing it.
Dont get me wrong, I am enjoying it but I do think some fat can be trimmed to make the game more streamlined. But I guess we all need hoops to want to keep playing an MMO? Man I miss DAoC, no hoops, just game.
However, the reason you originally stop playing is that new things come out and you are in perpetual search for the "new" feeling. The feeling of discovery...
With that said, I play EQ because it has mechanics that allows me to be social. Try having a conversation in one of the "action" MMO's ... it just leads to sub-par play.
Ya, over have all classes being able to heal themselves and CC and have a tanky build. Needing someone sure made great communities. I did hate waiting for teams. Pantheon is doing a good thing with healers to, I hope, fix that.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I hate to sound like a recycler but the players playing those were younger back then.
Not necessarily. I was 38 with a family and job back in 2001 when I started with EQ. I was not alone in my age group, but the majority of players, I agree, were younger. Now, I'm retired and have much more time on my hands
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I hate to sound like a recycler but the players playing those were younger back then.
Not necessarily. I was 38 with a family and job back in 2001 when I started with EQ. I was not alone in my age group, but the majority of players, I agree, were younger. Now, I'm retired and have much more time on my hands
That remind me some uncle in my guild , they were 40+ around 2004 . Those guy were more hardcore and heavy cash trader aka RMT . They have to buy a lots gold and item to keep the guild up without get out run by other guilds .
In the server , most of top people were older one too . They have time any money to spend .
Basically being old , had family and kids wasn't the main problem . At lease 15 years ago .
I have to say that early MMORPG are shady as **** . There are many stuff that normal player never know about . But that's what made them real and worth inverst in .
If there are any MMORPG that like old MMORPG , i think it was Archeage . But lately LXgame seem go way
Umm just to point out that MANY of the older MMOS still have thousands of players. While most are no longer publishing player numbers a little research into investor reports can show that games like Anarchy Online and Everquest still have thousands and thousands of subscribers.
As for the people you speak of playing those older MMO's that are still around....the question was never meant for them in the first place. I wanted to ask the guy playing Guild Wars 2 talking how Daoc was the best MMO ever made.....well why aren't you still playing it then? Simple as that really. Because I AM that guy.
There are fun games. But the fun only last a few month till you get bored.
Many old games just don't have frequent enough update/events to keep people playing for very long.
And new players always chasing the newest or most popular things, so those old games lack new blood to fill the people leaving.
The average joe gamer today doesn't have the mentality of a MMO player from back in the day, which focus on socialization and long term goals. They just want to join a online game and have a blast right from the start. Hence the succes of battle royale, when you have large map, lots of people, loot mechanics and instand gratification.
I hate to sound like a recycler but the players playing those were younger back then.
Those players are older now, have kids, have jobs.
Edited for spelling
Yes they were, I was 43 or so. I'm older now and have more time to play than ever before.
Your argument is irrelevant, what is true is the younger gamers seem to prefer other genres....so do some older gamers as well.
Back to POE.
Ky you started playing Path of Exile relatively recently right? I mean you never played it before this, if I am not mistaken. I loved it and had lots of builds and enjoyed it thoroughly. Great days ahead for you.
I hate to sound like a recycler but the players playing those were younger back then.
Those players are older now, have kids, have jobs.
Edited for spelling
Yes they were, I was 43 or so. I'm older now and have more time to play than ever before.
Your argument is irrelevant, what is true is the younger gamers seem to prefer other genres....so do some older gamers as well.
Back to POE.
Ky you started playing Path of Exile relatively recently right? I mean you never played it before this, if I am not mistaken. I loved it and had lots of builds and enjoyed it thoroughly. Great days ahead for you.
Yep, only started in March, amazing amount of depth to POE, far beyond the simple storyline missions it first tosses at you.
Currently playing a Champ Impale Cyclone and Baron (Strength) Necro builds, both being so very different from my initial Champ Totem Warchief.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I hate to sound like a recycler but the players playing those were younger back then.
Those players are older now, have kids, have jobs.
Edited for spelling
Yes they were, I was 43 or so. I'm older now and have more time to play than ever before.
Your argument is irrelevant, what is true is the younger gamers seem to prefer other genres....so do some older gamers as well.
Back to POE.
Ky you started playing Path of Exile relatively recently right? I mean you never played it before this, if I am not mistaken. I loved it and had lots of builds and enjoyed it thoroughly. Great days ahead for you.
Yep, only started in March, amazing amount of depth to POE, far beyond the simple storyline missions it first tosses at you.
Currently playing a Champ Impale Cyclone and Baron (Strength) Necro builds, both being so very different from my initial Champ Totem Warchief.
Good times still ahead
Yeah when you first start because of the shabby way it begins, you don't actually see the potential of the game. It has amazing depth and once you actually understand all the possibilities as you watch some videos and people talk about their builds and what mechanics, buffs or equipment they use and the reasons for those combinations it opens up such a plethora of ideas that could be viable. Truly a diamond in the rough.
Comments
I love EQ2 by the way.
Guess technically Dual Universe and it's ilk are sort of the evolution of those.
First of all "thousands" and "many" is pretty anecdotal. But even if true, would you consider them popular within the genre where hundreds of thousands if not millions are playing popular modern MMOs? Even if the answer is a factual yes.....are they "the most popular"? (literally quoted from the subject line).
The answer is no.
As for the people you speak of playing those older MMO's that are still around....the question was never meant for them in the first place. I wanted to ask the guy playing Guild Wars 2 talking how Daoc was the best MMO ever made.....well why aren't you still playing it then? Simple as that really. Because I AM that guy.
Another factor is that society and video gaming changed. Many more choices with competition for players' time.
I'll be honest and say that the old MMORPGs I played were not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but their "concepts and designs" were immensely better for my personal tastes than today's offerings. Others have differing opinions
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Used to be, Healers, DPS, Tank, Support/CC. Gamers often picking classes they liked for the role and need of each class. Picking a class also means you needed to be highly skilled as a gamer to play that role. Walking into a team and seeing an enchanter or a bard, you knew how that changed the dynamic of your team and adjusted your play style. Someone new joins your team in a modern MMO, it does not change anyone's play style. Keep mashing the same hotkeys.
Considering how long it used to take to level characters in those old games you could put a lot of time and effort into developing a class/role before you even got to do the kind of content where you finally figured out how the class was supposed to be played... and then you were stuck with it.
Having to redo the grind all over again for the class/role you now knew fit your style better was a pain in the ass.
Rift was actually a breath of fresh air in that regard giving each class many different "souls" that supported a variety of play styles and roles.
And modern MMOs like ESO continue that trend which is IMO a good thing.
I'm also not crazy about the DPS AOE spam fests a lot of the newer MMOs heavily cater to but that's a different issue from class/role locking.
Class flexibility is a very good thing. AOE spam everywhere all the time is not.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
However, the reason you originally stop playing is that new things come out and you are in perpetual search for the "new" feeling. The feeling of discovery...
With that said, I play EQ because it has mechanics that allows me to be social. Try having a conversation in one of the "action" MMO's ... it just leads to sub-par play.
Both system of total freedom and role locking have advantages and disadvantages. What I like about the role lock is you can come back a year later and pick up where you left off and not miss a beat. I have spent 3 weeks trying to learn ESO and I know I have not touched the tip of the iceberg. I still have a list of things I need to read up on as I am getting close to level 50. CP specs, gear sets and how that plays into PvP, PvE and what skills I need for each, to name a few. Thats allot of work over just jumping into a game and playing it.
Dont get me wrong, I am enjoying it but I do think some fat can be trimmed to make the game more streamlined. But I guess we all need hoops to want to keep playing an MMO? Man I miss DAoC, no hoops, just game.
Those players are older now, have kids, have jobs.
Does time change? Do people change? Is there will to make true choices?
Games have changed for sure and more are caught up in Fortnite & Candy Crush crazes to give a hoot about anything.
This used to be the WoW players that did this to the old school.
To answer the subjective, no they weren't better but it's what was available.
Edited for spelling
Edit: For those who can't understand the question is subjective as is the answer
That's as far as I'm elaborating
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
Your argument is irrelevant, what is true is the younger gamers seem to prefer other genres....so do some older gamers as well.
Back to POE.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Many old games just don't have frequent enough update/events to keep people playing for very long.
And new players always chasing the newest or most popular things, so those old games lack new blood to fill the people leaving.
Currently playing a Champ Impale Cyclone and Baron (Strength) Necro builds, both being so very different from my initial Champ Totem Warchief.
Good times still ahead
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon