Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

If old school MMOs were better....why aren't they still the most popular?

13468911

Comments

  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 990
    Because real risk vs reward doesnt appeal to everyone.  We liked the old MMORPG because it was hard and the community was good.  if you acted up you didnt get groups anymore soloing was hard so it required for people to not be asshats.  People like the new ones because they are basically single player games masking as mmos you dont make any real bonds with people so its fun and easy to be a douche.
    Old School MMOs weren't hard.  They were not more difficult than the current ones.  They were just filled with time sinks and people equated "time consuming" with difficult.  The two are not the same thing.

    EQ was never a hard game, it just had strict requirements built into the gameplay and content design.

    And it was balanced in a way that made it take as long as the developers could muster to achieve anything in the game.

    They loosened up on this later (especially 2003 onwards), where the game basically became not unlike what WoW and EQ2 were at launched - except with far less actual Quest-based content in it.
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 990
    edited June 30
    Luiden said:

    If EQ2 never built their cash shop, stayed away from the F2P model and all that BS and just focused on developing new expansions with innovative play, I can guarantee you that they would still have their entire player base and more.... or I guess I should say I can guarantee you that I would still be playing the game.   

       

    EQ2 never had a cash shop until around the Velious Expansion, and it was hte equivalent of the WoW cash shop - i.e. ignorable, unless you liked housing and cosmetic stuff.

    Where the cash shop became a problem is when they started launching expansion content on the shop (i.e. Age of Discovery).  The mercenary system was also introduced then, and it was tied to the cash shop (had to buy it there to unlock the feature).  Basically, the AoD expansion was broken up into cash shop items, and a lot of players smelled it and jet, cause they could already see the slippery slope.

    In any case, EQ2 lost a huge chunk of its player base after TSO, not when the cash shop became a thing, and not with F2P (EQ2 Extended) became a thing.  By then, most of the players had quit, and almost all of the top guilds had left the game.  Many servers were already pretty much dead.

    Late Velious is when they started doing stupendous gear resets, like completely screwing over Heroic Progression guilds by putting armor as good or better than Heroic Armor on a Puggable Instance Raid Boss in the new patch (basically the equivalent to LFR), and making the new heroic dungeons so hard that almost no one ran it because running the Heroic Raids was less frustrating and still gave you better gear.

    Before they started screwing with all of this stuff, EQ2 had some of the best gear progression in the genre.  Heroic dungeons were actually far more useful in that game than Mythic Dungeons in World of Warcraft, which gave the content a ton of longevity.  Same for the Open World "Contested Dungeons."  Even people in raiding guilds still went to those places to patch up holes in their itemization until they got better raid drops.

    But that all went out of the window, and the AoD expansion simply didn't bring enough content to keep people in the game (beyond adding the Beastlord class, which was disgustingly IMBA).

    Basically, they made progression from that point to the end of the expansion completely pointless - so there was no reason for many people to even log into the game - which actually required a monthly subscription.

    That's when I stopped playing EQ2 and started leveling up my toon in WoW (end of BC/Early WotLK)), which was only like level 54 or something at that time.

    On top of that, the developers of EQ2 had a knack for introducing new game systems and complexities where they simply were not necessary.  Wand Auto Attack, for example, wasn't necessary at all...  More stats here and there.  Only to get rid of them and then bloat things up again...

    On the flip side, they took years to fix broken Summoner melee pets, the Warlock Class was basically in shambles for an entire expansion, and Enchanters had no job in dungeons/raids (no CC needed) except to provide their buffs and mediocre DPS.

    Bad development and poor development priorities/project management is why players left that game.  Not the cash shop or F2P.  The Cash Shop and F2P were a reaction to nose diving player numbers, not the other way around.

    Otherwise, they'd have been in the same position WoW is right now - just put some cosmetics there to milk a bit of extra income, but no need to start basically selling Spell Research, etc. on the cash shop - which is practically P2W in that game.

    IMO, EQ2 was every bit as good as WoW.  The developers squandered it, IMO.  It was certainly better than something like FFXIV.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,494
    edited July 1
    Darksworm said:
    Because real risk vs reward doesnt appeal to everyone.  We liked the old MMORPG because it was hard and the community was good.  if you acted up you didnt get groups anymore soloing was hard so it required for people to not be asshats.  People like the new ones because they are basically single player games masking as mmos you dont make any real bonds with people so its fun and easy to be a douche.
    Old School MMOs weren't hard.  They were not more difficult than the current ones.  They were just filled with time sinks and people equated "time consuming" with difficult.  The two are not the same thing.

    EQ was never a hard game, it just had strict requirements built into the gameplay and content design.

    And it was balanced in a way that made it take as long as the developers could muster to achieve anything in the game.

    They loosened up on this later (especially 2003 onwards), where the game basically became not unlike what WoW and EQ2 were at launched - except with far less actual Quest-based content in it.
    I disagree. Though EQ had its fair share of "time sinks", they were mainly at upper levels, trying for that top gear like the class item epic quests.

    However, at the base, the old MMORPGs were much more difficult in a few ways. "Chance of Failure" is a major one. Today's MMOs have no chance of failure, except getting beat in a fight. You hit 100% at what you aim at. You block or dodge 100% if your timing is right. There is no randomness to fights. You have to think quick when your big, awesome attack misses. "CRAP! What do I now?"

    Another way is "Mob Mentality." EQ had their mobs using blind, root, fear, and charm spells. Losing control of your own character is unheard of in today's MMOs. Along with this, a mob that "con'd white" (equal level) with you had a 50/50 chance of beating you. Nothing like that now in today's MMOs. Now sprinkle into low level zones mid to high level monsters. Not easy at all, but missing from today's "safe place" MMOs. The reason people grouped was because XP came faster that way. You could solo even con monsters, but it would take forever if you won, and then you had to heal/recover.

    Which leads to the last one, which could be thought of as a "time sink" labeled "Downtime." After a fight, you're hurt. You're tired. Old MMORPGs brought that into their games. New MMOs have lost that, making it easy to run your way through a game in no time. Out of combat healing rates have skyrocketed. EQ had a rate of 1HP/6 seconds (I think), and if sitting down tripled(?), maybe (taxing my memory here). I don't think there was any out of combat mana regen, meditating being the only way to get that back. I could be wrong on the specific numbers, but the ideas are there.

    Again, EQ did have its share of time sinks (bosses on timers, random loot drops, etc...), but combat wasn't one of them. For me, difficulty came in the randomness of everything you did, thanks to RNG :)

    PS: Of course, what one player finds difficult, others will say, "Easy peasy!"
    GdemamicheyaneKyleranBaalzharonAyin

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

  • LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 261
    Darksworm said:
    Because real risk vs reward doesnt appeal to everyone.  We liked the old MMORPG because it was hard and the community was good.  if you acted up you didnt get groups anymore soloing was hard so it required for people to not be asshats.  People like the new ones because they are basically single player games masking as mmos you dont make any real bonds with people so its fun and easy to be a douche.
    Old School MMOs weren't hard.  They were not more difficult than the current ones.  They were just filled with time sinks and people equated "time consuming" with difficult.  The two are not the same thing.

    EQ was never a hard game, it just had strict requirements built into the gameplay and content design.

    And it was balanced in a way that made it take as long as the developers could muster to achieve anything in the game.

    They loosened up on this later (especially 2003 onwards), where the game basically became not unlike what WoW and EQ2 were at launched - except with far less actual Quest-based content in it.
    I really disagree with this statement.  Gamers today couldn't handle the game mechanics of DAOC.. the original game.  Gamers today want to be able to kill 10 mobs at once at level 2.. in DAOC if you got an add there was a high chance you were dead.  So you needed to understand how to move around the world, position yourself, and pull/xp without gettings adds etc.  You really needed to understand the game mechanics or you were leveling very slow pulling blue/yellow con mobs.

    With WoW, even Vanilla WoW when it came out there was very little risk and the gameplay was very simple.  I remember when it came out I didn't die once until level 34 or something like that.. and that was because I was tanking for my group and fell asleep at the keyboard. lol 

    There is just no comparison, MMORPGs today are built so that brain dead people can play them.  
    cheyaneklash2defScorchien
  • LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 261
    Darksworm said:
    Luiden said:

    If EQ2 never built their cash shop, stayed away from the F2P model and all that BS and just focused on developing new expansions with innovative play, I can guarantee you that they would still have their entire player base and more.... or I guess I should say I can guarantee you that I would still be playing the game.   

       

    EQ2 never had a cash shop until around the Velious Expansion, and it was hte equivalent of the WoW cash shop - i.e. ignorable, unless you liked housing and cosmetic stuff.

    Where the cash shop became a problem is when they started launching expansion content on the shop (i.e. Age of Discovery).  The mercenary system was also introduced then, and it was tied to the cash shop (had to buy it there to unlock the feature).  Basically, the AoD expansion was broken up into cash shop items, and a lot of players smelled it and jet, cause they could already see the slippery slope.

    In any case, EQ2 lost a huge chunk of its player base after TSO, not when the cash shop became a thing, and not with F2P (EQ2 Extended) became a thing.  By then, most of the players had quit, and almost all of the top guilds had left the game.  Many servers were already pretty much dead.

    Late Velious is when they started doing stupendous gear resets, like completely screwing over Heroic Progression guilds by putting armor as good or better than Heroic Armor on a Puggable Instance Raid Boss in the new patch (basically the equivalent to LFR), and making the new heroic dungeons so hard that almost no one ran it because running the Heroic Raids was less frustrating and still gave you better gear.

    Before they started screwing with all of this stuff, EQ2 had some of the best gear progression in the genre.  Heroic dungeons were actually far more useful in that game than Mythic Dungeons in World of Warcraft, which gave the content a ton of longevity.  Same for the Open World "Contested Dungeons."  Even people in raiding guilds still went to those places to patch up holes in their itemization until they got better raid drops.

    But that all went out of the window, and the AoD expansion simply didn't bring enough content to keep people in the game (beyond adding the Beastlord class, which was disgustingly IMBA).

    Basically, they made progression from that point to the end of the expansion completely pointless - so there was no reason for many people to even log into the game - which actually required a monthly subscription.

    That's when I stopped playing EQ2 and started leveling up my toon in WoW (end of BC/Early WotLK)), which was only like level 54 or something at that time.

    On top of that, the developers of EQ2 had a knack for introducing new game systems and complexities where they simply were not necessary.  Wand Auto Attack, for example, wasn't necessary at all...  More stats here and there.  Only to get rid of them and then bloat things up again...

    On the flip side, they took years to fix broken Summoner melee pets, the Warlock Class was basically in shambles for an entire expansion, and Enchanters had no job in dungeons/raids (no CC needed) except to provide their buffs and mediocre DPS.

    Bad development and poor development priorities/project management is why players left that game.  Not the cash shop or F2P.  The Cash Shop and F2P were a reaction to nose diving player numbers, not the other way around.

    Otherwise, they'd have been in the same position WoW is right now - just put some cosmetics there to milk a bit of extra income, but no need to start basically selling Spell Research, etc. on the cash shop - which is practically P2W in that game.

    IMO, EQ2 was every bit as good as WoW.  The developers squandered it, IMO.  It was certainly better than something like FFXIV.
    I pretty much agree with everything you are saying.. I think I quit after the ToS expansion but can't remember which one.  But when the cash shop was added is when I saw the writing on the wall.  We ran a large guild which kept us around a while longer but the continued focus on the cash shop, even from a housing perspective really brought the value of the game down.

    Believe it or not, not everybody who plays these types of games are after the gear.  I ran countless raids, dungeon crawls etc trying to get unique items, trophies, books, housing items etc.  They took a lot of that away with the cash shop over time.

    To simple state, I don't play MMORPGs anymore because of cash shops.. if 'shopping' was fun I would do it on Amazon and get something real at the house.. I don't want that kind of crap in my game.  
  • agamennagamenn Member UncommonPosts: 58
    most old school mmos have old graphics which people of today go 'eeeewwwwwww' at
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,408
    edited July 9
    I would have to agree that after playing Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot when I started vanilla WoW I never found the pace slow or the game difficult. I did however enjoy it because the dungeons and grouping was fun as it still involved pacing carefully since I would run out of mana as a priest and I had a macro telling everyone to stop and that I will not be able to heal them if they continue.

    This does not happen in new games, and players often say this is a good thing that they don't have to wait and they can rush and pull, pull, pull and go on and on and finish.

    I also have to disagree with the person that said Everquest was not hard. They seem to be mistaking the tediousness but like @AlBQuirky pointed out very smartly that it was the mechanics of Everquest that made the game hard. You were never safe anywhere really unless you were seriously overlevelled.

    You could try to stand by the zone line and hope to meditate to full but someone might decide to train a high level monster to the zone and it will kill your unsuspecting (gone to get a snack) toon in quick succession too if you happened to also bind yourself to that point. Losing several levels when you return will definitely sour you.

    Your mana and hp had to be managed carefully you had to have some in reserve for that gate or the heal or not use every crowd control and drain your mana only to find you whiffed on the spell and lost mana and now cannot actually damage the mob and kill it. Everything was dependent on you planning well and using strategy and not simply rushing headlong and expecting to win. Things were stacked against you when you went against a yellow con and if you missed and whiffed you were dead. You can run but then they can hit and stun you and root you or another passing mob just joins in while you're running. Anything could happen which made the game exciting.

    The fact that other mobs get pulled if you try a camp and commence pummelling you to death meant you always had to use some tactic and even then it had to be something that made them forget you were there or else hello few minutes later said camp will descend on you. The mobs never forgot you. They used many unfair tactics too like summoning you to them or blinding you which was serious your whole screen went black I mean pitch black. What about all the disease and nasty poison that made sure you died even if the mob died unless you had some way to recover from it. Bind wounds was something people took time to practice and keep up.Carrying bandages and such things to help you. 

    Things were expensive which meant you couldn't just buy any number of potions you wanted so your adventuring might be safer. You had to choose what you killed carefully or grouped up to increase the chances of survival.

    Everquest was indeed a hard game and if you cannot differentiate between tedium and mechanics then you might not have played it all that much.
    skadadGdemamikitaradJean-Luc_PicardAlBQuirkyKyleranBaalzharon
    image
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,067
    Darksworm said:
    Because real risk vs reward doesnt appeal to everyone.  We liked the old MMORPG because it was hard and the community was good.  if you acted up you didnt get groups anymore soloing was hard so it required for people to not be asshats.  People like the new ones because they are basically single player games masking as mmos you dont make any real bonds with people so its fun and easy to be a douche.
    Old School MMOs weren't hard.  They were not more difficult than the current ones.  They were just filled with time sinks and people equated "time consuming" with difficult.  The two are not the same thing.

    EQ was never a hard game, it just had strict requirements built into the gameplay and content design.

    And it was balanced in a way that made it take as long as the developers could muster to achieve anything in the game.

    They loosened up on this later (especially 2003 onwards), where the game basically became not unlike what WoW and EQ2 were at launched - except with far less actual Quest-based content in it.
    I can always tell when someone didn't really play old school MMOs....They were harder....in EQ, my druid could barely solo even cons and I was usually out of mana when the fight ended..In WoW, I could easily take a mob 4-5 levels higher and often stronger than that.....In EQ if you were soloing and got adds it often meant death or at least fleeing. In WoW an add was no problem.
    AlBQuirkyKyleran
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,057
    cheyane said:
    You were never safe anywhere really unless you were seriously overlevelled.
    We often agree but on this I will have to disagree.
    This doesn't make a game "hard". It just puts a hard cap on what you can do.
    I personally call this "bad design", but hey, I come from UO and AC1.
    AlBQuirkyKyleranAyin
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,536
    Well old doesn't last forever,people in general like to see new.
    A simple comparison,old houses were built with real 2x4's or real 2/6's,so the wood was better,so then people say well why not buy older homes then if they were built better,it is simply the NEW looks better in a mental state of mind.

    What kind of car do you have,well an old Mercedes 2002 doesn't sound as good as a brand new off the lot 2020 Hybrid SUV,no matter what make it is.

    Old cars were built with real steel,now tons of paper thin with loads of plastic.

    It is like asking a mom,why are you buying new clothes for your kid,you don't like the old ones you said at the time were the best?They simply like to shop,buy new stuff for the kids even if most of it is a waste of money.

    it is like trying to figure out the mental state of each individual,why are you doing that,why are you doing this.

    It is not even a matter of being better as that is an EXTREMELY VAGUE term.Some "systems",some of the designs were better.Like obviously graphics now are much better,more controller designs,more keybinding games instead of no choice.A lot of the time new games are just as good,identical but why on earth would i want to buy the exact same thing ...AGAIN,just because i like wasting money?

    As we get MUCH better gpu's,cpu's,overall better tech,better tools,better engines,we SHOULD be seeing MUCH better games and THAT is the point.I goes even further,after devs and their staff have designed certain systems,it should become easier and easier,over time they SHOULD be able to figure out to do ideas better,learn new ways to code and implement ideas,they should basically be LEARNING how to design and make games BETTER.
    GdemamiAlBQuirkyklash2defBaalzharon

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,494
    Wizardry said:
    <snip>
    As we get MUCH better gpu's,cpu's,overall better tech,better tools,better engines,we SHOULD be seeing MUCH better games and THAT is the point.I goes even further,after devs and their staff have designed certain systems,it should become easier and easier,over time they SHOULD be able to figure out to do ideas better,learn new ways to code and implement ideas,they should basically be LEARNING how to design and make games BETTER.
    And yet... Games today sure look pretty!

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

  • CazrielCazriel Member UncommonPosts: 419
    Although conspiracy theories and cause/effect narratives are popular, it isn't that difficult to explain:  Because new shiny.

    Every single MMO I ever left, I left to go play a new game to see what it was like.  By the time I figured out that game, another game released and I had to go see what that one was about.  And so the last ten years have just gone by like a zap of lightning and the list of MMOs I've played is longer than my arm. 
    AlBQuirky
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,549
    No game will ever match that of Star Wars Galaxies. The greatest MMORPG ever created. RIP.
    SWTOR is a far better Star Wars game than SWG...

    change my mind.  B)
    Baalzharon
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    MMO's will always be judged by their graphics, i know some purists will say it doesn't matter, but for most i think it probably does. Eve Online can be considered to be an 'old school' game, its been around for well over a decade after all, but graphically its one of the top games, its what happens when developers keep on pushing what can be done and improving the players experience where possible, they mostly do a good job though i can't say i am entirely happy with the current version of the game.
    Everquest has a very small but dedicated playerbase, can you imagine how much larger that playerbase would be if Everquest had BDO level of graphics? i think the main reason why old school games are not as popular is mostly down to aging graphics.
    If they were to 'remaster' games like DAOC or Everquest to the kind of graphical detail you find in BDO, i would totally play them again, why wouldn't i? ;)
    AlBQuirky
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,725
    edited July 10
    Phry said:
    Everquest has a very small but dedicated playerbase, can you imagine how much larger that playerbase would be if Everquest had BDO level of graphics? i think the main reason why old school games are not as popular is mostly down to aging graphics.
    ...if that was true, we would see new games with better graphics that are closer to EQ in their design.

    However, the trend in new MMOs shifted away from EQ formula because there was better model to follow thus I highly doubt there would be many playing 'remastered' versions.

    Old ways won't open new doors.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
    BaalzharonViper482
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,208
    Because people get tired even from their most favorite things. That's why they say that moderation is good for the soul.

    With that said, I find both the old school and the new school two extremes of the pole. Neither of them being fully satisfactory - something more to the middle would be far more satisfactory. Neither casually easy nor Ninja Gaiden ball breaking hard are the answer.
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,303
    I have no idea and honestly I dont care.

    If the companies cannot or dont want to give me the games I actually enjoy playing, I have enough other options.

    I dont HAVE to play computer games.

    AlBQuirky
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 1,129
    Wow, Eve, Lineage, runescape are very old games.  And popular to this days.

    Funding is probably one of the reason old school games are no longer popular.  When a game goes in decline, funding will be cut so it aggravate the decline.  


    Gdemami
  • slowpoke68slowpoke68 Member UncommonPosts: 541
    If you think The Godfather is the best movie ever, why don't you just watch that movie over and over forever.  If your favorite meal is steak with a baked potato why don't you just only eat that for dinner for the rest of your life.

    It is because everything gets old no matter how good it is.  People want variety.  This is a silly question.

    One other comment, to those who say old school games weren't harder, they just had time sinks, you obviously didn't play during that era.  You are talking out of your ass completely.


    KyleranAlBQuirkyJean-Luc_Picard
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 1,129
    If you think The Godfather is the best movie ever, why don't you just watch that movie over and over forever.  If your favorite meal is steak with a baked potato why don't you just only eat that for dinner for the rest of your life.

    It is because everything gets old no matter how good it is.  People want variety.  This is a silly question.




    Probably the reason why generic themepark are more popular.  They have so much content if people get sick of doing one activity, people switch to another activity.  

    If I get sick of doing RvR in warhammer I quit the game.  If I get sick of world vs world in GW2, I go run a dungeon.


    Adamantine
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,408
    cheyane said:
    You were never safe anywhere really unless you were seriously overlevelled.
    We often agree but on this I will have to disagree.
    This doesn't make a game "hard". It just puts a hard cap on what you can do.
    I personally call this "bad design", but hey, I come from UO and AC1.
    I totally get what you're saying about the hard cap and how everything would fail as a result when you tried to take on a creature far above your level and that does not happen in Asheron's Call. My limited knowledge of the game during my brief sojourn does it no credit since I was not in the right frame of mind to appreciate the game, I played it when I was upset with my guild in Everquest and as a 'looking for another game' quest which didn't pan out as I was too addicted to EQ.

    What I meant about by being never safe was because of the constant trains and high level creatures that could descend on you and you had to be careful where you sat to recover mana something my wizard was constantly doing and even when travelling the fact that the invisibility could drop at any time was a constant worry. The game felt like a real world. How you would feel worrying about turning a corner and running into some creature you could not hope to kill. The adrenaline rushing through you as you walked past some mobs praying the invisibility held. That made the game difficult. It was difficult to navigate without maps and spells that help like invisibility and even then there were creatures who could see through it too. The game wasn't easy at all.

    Of course years later you can look back and think and even consider it easy because you now know everything about it but it was my very first online MMORPG. I, like many, found the experience challenging and engaging and I have not come across many MMORPGs I can say I have found difficult because of the many features that have already been pointed out by others and few by yours truly.
    KyleranAlBQuirkyJean-Luc_Picard
    image
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,494
    AAAMEOW said:
    If you think The Godfather is the best movie ever, why don't you just watch that movie over and over forever.  If your favorite meal is steak with a baked potato why don't you just only eat that for dinner for the rest of your life.

    It is because everything gets old no matter how good it is.  People want variety.  This is a silly question.




    Probably the reason why generic themepark are more popular.  They have so much content if people get sick of doing one activity, people switch to another activity.  

    If I get sick of doing RvR in warhammer I quit the game.  If I get sick of world vs world in GW2, I go run a dungeon.


    If I got sick of "camping" in EQ, I worked on my crafting. If I got sick of crafting in EQ, I found a language learning group. If I got sick of language learning in EQ, I'd explore. If I got sick of exploring in EQ, I'd find a dungeon group. Dungeons were sprinkled all throughout the game, not just at higher levels.

    Notice a few "non-combat" activities there? Old MMORPGs had them :)
    GdemamiBaalzharon

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,057
    AlBQuirky said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    If you think The Godfather is the best movie ever, why don't you just watch that movie over and over forever.  If your favorite meal is steak with a baked potato why don't you just only eat that for dinner for the rest of your life.

    It is because everything gets old no matter how good it is.  People want variety.  This is a silly question.




    Probably the reason why generic themepark are more popular.  They have so much content if people get sick of doing one activity, people switch to another activity.  

    If I get sick of doing RvR in warhammer I quit the game.  If I get sick of world vs world in GW2, I go run a dungeon.


    If I got sick of "camping" in EQ, I worked on my crafting. If I got sick of crafting in EQ, I found a language learning group. If I got sick of language learning in EQ, I'd explore. If I got sick of exploring in EQ, I'd find a dungeon group. Dungeons were sprinkled all throughout the game, not just at higher levels.

    Notice a few "non-combat" activities there? Old MMORPGs had them :)
    Even more so in Ultima Online actually.
    You could have a working efficient and useful 100% non combat character. Not really true in Everquest.
    AlBQuirky
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,320
    edited July 10
    AlBQuirky said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    If you think The Godfather is the best movie ever, why don't you just watch that movie over and over forever.  If your favorite meal is steak with a baked potato why don't you just only eat that for dinner for the rest of your life.

    It is because everything gets old no matter how good it is.  People want variety.  This is a silly question.




    Probably the reason why generic themepark are more popular.  They have so much content if people get sick of doing one activity, people switch to another activity.  

    If I get sick of doing RvR in warhammer I quit the game.  If I get sick of world vs world in GW2, I go run a dungeon.


    If I got sick of "camping" in EQ, I worked on my crafting. If I got sick of crafting in EQ, I found a language learning group. If I got sick of language learning in EQ, I'd explore. If I got sick of exploring in EQ, I'd find a dungeon group. Dungeons were sprinkled all throughout the game, not just at higher levels.

    Notice a few "non-combat" activities there? Old MMORPGs had them :)
    Even more so in Ultima Online actually.
    You could have a working efficient and useful 100% non combat character. Not really true in Everquest.
    Weird.

    In POE I can clear maps, and kill everything.

    Or, I can dungeon delve/mine, and kill everything.

    Or I can do temple runs...and kill everything.

    Or I can join a PVP arena,  and of course kill everyone.

    Or...I can craft new gear....naw f-that, hit the Trade web site, buy some awesome new gear, and go into the Uber lab to...you guessed it, kill everything....

    Wait, there's more, every three months I can join a new league and....joy of joy's, kill everything all over again.

    I found my niche.....murder hobo extraordinaire......

    When the doors to the dungeon close the monsters find out I'm not locked in here with them, they're locked in here with me!

    Cheers!

    ;)


    AlBQuirkyVermillion_RaventhalJean-Luc_Picard

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    Viper482 said:
    Any thoughts? 
    It's a combination of things. But the main one for me is the game looks and feels old. It's like going back to play the old BASIC games. It was fun in the day, but feels pointless to play for long.

    Like I want the original Deus Ex back with just an update of graphics and sound. No "new concepts" or what a kid today thinks in "kewl". I want to remember the game as it was, not what people think it was (as it wasn't ... it was clunky; there were bugs;there were clear exploits ... but because it was messed up it's what made it fun).


    Games now is this: stay on track. Don't move outside the red lines or get banned. Beat the clock, hurry, you have but 5 seconds (if your internet connection goes down [because so many exploited it], tough luck (that includes progressing afterwards -- you may have to wait 6 months for the SOBs to patch their game). << PAY HERE >> to continue (or wait a day).

    Yeah, just an update on graphics and sound and leave all the other junk out.

Sign In or Register to comment.