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EVE Online's Big Shake Up is Rubbing Many Capsuleers the Wrong Way - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129

imageEVE Online's Big Shake Up is Rubbing Many Capsuleers the Wrong Way - MMORPG.com

EVE Online has already carved out a reputation for being the catalyst for some of gaming’s most interesting stories. Those stories are driven by the thousands of dedicated players who make EVE’s New Eden home. Whether it’s backstabbing an alliance someone has infiltrated or exploring every system in New Eden, EVE Online players have proven themselves to create some of gaming's most unique stories to date.

Read the full story here



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Comments

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    I imagine that part of the retention problem is that people are just trying the game and don't know for sure it's for them.

    It's ne thing to make certain things transparent and clear but it's another thing to have game play that just isn't to the liking of the people trying the game.
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  • ZandogZandog Member UncommonPosts: 97
    This is huge. Maybe it's just delayed, maybe it's not for very long, maybe it will only be a thing for a week or 2, but who the fuck cares? This shows CCP is willing to try things to see how it turns out. Shake shit up and see what happens, make EVE just a little bit more interesting for a while.

    And you know what, that's nice. - Reddit User
    Darkpigeon[Deleted User]RemyVorendercheyaneKalafax
    Every time Goonsquad/SA/DS post salt on Star Citizen, I spend more money on it. Every time a mentally disturbed former backer or Elite CMDR toxic emo comments, I spend more money on it. Every time they refuse to answer why they spend so much time arguing about a game they don't even like, I spend more money on it. Want to watch the world burn because you can't have your way? You got whats coming to you.
  • vonryan123vonryan123 Member UncommonPosts: 407
    Wow finally working of making the carebear krabs in null work for the isk again...HA! Now it's their turn to adapt or die.
    cheebaAlomarKyleranKalafaxkrgwynne

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  • 3dom3dom Member RarePosts: 889
    EVE is steadily losing player base anyway, even after F2P transition. What do they have to lose?

    Hopefully, CCP's new Black Desert overlords will force devs to re-implement avatar gameplay. After all, that's where BDO get their $50M/year in EU/US on PC alone.
    Octagon7711

    Thank you for your time!

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Perhaps CCP's new "Overlords" are finally showing their hand ?
    Life2v
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    3dom said:
    Hopefully, CCP's new Black Desert overlords will force devs to re-implement avatar gameplay.
    Unlikely.

    1) It would require truly massive investment which for EVE is too old already.

    2) CCP has no vision/ideas for spaceship content, it is very unlikely they could come out with something sensible for avatar gameplay.
    EponyxDamoranemo
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 3,823
    The responses from the "hardcore" players for both "controversies" makes them look like cry babies.

    Which is not a surprise at all.
    DarkpigeonOctagon7711HarikenCaffynatedTacticalZombehanemo
  • lotrlorelotrlore Managing EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, Member RarePosts: 543

    Sovrath said:

    I imagine that part of the retention problem is that people are just trying the game and don't know for sure it's for them.



    It's ne thing to make certain things transparent and clear but it's another thing to have game play that just isn't to the liking of the people trying the game.



    I think this is partly true - people hop into EVE hearing about the great stories but are met with something they didn't anticipate. EVE is hard to get into and while the New Player Experience is a step in the right direction, as well as things like The Agency, it still doesn't do enough to teach new players "what's next."

    I went through the scanning tutorial quest line this week just to see what it was like and was lost in parts of it because the instructions simply aren't clearly communicated. As someone who has an idea of how to play EVE, if it was confusing to me I can't image how confusing it will be for players with no idea of EVE Mechanics.

    The shakeups in Nullsec show CCP is willing to stir the sandbox more than it has in the past, and it makes for great stories which can get newer players into the game. But it doesn't help retain those players. That's the problem CCP needs to figure out, which is something I know they are furiously trying to do.
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    Its eve dirty secret the supposed "hardcore" null sec types are the worlds biggest carebears and got away with the biggest con job in gaming history. They arent hardcore, they just were able to lock down and convince CCP that only they should be able to make money in null sec because of the "risk" which is fake risk.

    Do they die more? Sure but they have convinced CCP they should be granted 100X the earnings of everyone else so when they do lose a ship its meaningless because of the absurd ease of accruing wealth. It only has gotten worse as each year passed and CCP continued to fall for their self centered lies and gated more and more of the games best content behind the lies of Null sec is big scary and risky. You wonder why you can't retain anyone new? You either join the null sec cartels or you basically cant play the best parts of eve and you certainly will have to play 100x more to earn the same money as them. I mean they control everything of value now because CCP feel for the ruse, tech 2 ships ammo? Null sec controlled, faction ship ammo? Yup null sec too, literally anything of worth is controlled by null sec and every system is in place to ensure they retain the control. The moment something comes up that threatens their absurd easy mode? You get this big drama show cry babying that writers like this disguise as "player made story lines", sorry its not its players who control everything crying inorder to ensure they stay the all stars and you are just another pawn unwittingly collaborating.

    Now they are CCP's owners they have chased away all of the regular players so CCP you better do as they say or they will bail on you and your game will be a ghost town....

    Before some "alt" of the cartel comes here to spew misinformation ab out hos nu unh its not like that, all you have to do is realize they are crying because they ca no longer safely farm up their trillions of game currency by parking their hoards of alt free accounts in adjacent systems watching the chat box to see if someone shows up so they can then scurry off to safety and log out, while beating their chests and tell everyone else "git gud git tough like me rawr" "Don't fly what you cant afford bro" , cool sounding bad ass lines like that until you learn well they have endless income earned a fraction of the time everyone has has to invest to attain it thus they can afford anything, and have endless time and resources to ensure you never get access because well they also now set up the same alts to block entry into the land of the riches.

    Wonder why no one sticks around to play?
    WhiteLanternKyleranGyva02Caffynatedvonryan123
  • MrTugglesMrTuggles Member UncommonPosts: 188
    It is rubbing some players the wrong way, but it is driving back a lot of older players into the game. Nullsec was supposed to be the most dangerous space in the game. It turned into a playground for power blocks where no man with a panel van and free candy could get them. This change will have many positive impacts on the game as a whole.
    Gyva02marcio519
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    The age old problem of not being able to interest new players in a game where they can never catch up, or pissing off veteran players by giving newbies things the veterans had to earn.

    Kyleran

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,345
    I suggest Discord during Blackout. Also when does a game seem like a load of arbitrary punishments? When it's EVE Online, recently, it would seem. The perils of going free to play and selling CCP off, I suppose. It feels like some kind of state intervention as well, to trigger the players. Guess I'll stick with Runescape for awhile. :D
    Kyleran
  • Psychos1sPsychos1s Member UncommonPosts: 191
    About time they got rid of the free scout AKA local chat. As a previous poster said, most of the null sec crowd are massive multi boxing care bears that are able to farm semi afk. Might have to jump back in for a laugh.
    [Deleted User]Gyva02RemyVorender
  • AlomarAlomar Member RarePosts: 1,299
    Eh, it's also rubbing plenty in the right direction for the first time in many years. Eve's population has been decreasing for 5+ years now, even with the f2p (alpha) addition and many players from the Chinese server migrating over. Yet, these last month of changes and the planned ones that have been hinted at are attracting players like myself back. The game's adding some more risk and creating the opportunities for pvp that had looked to be gone for good.
    [Deleted User]
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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    The problem with new player retention is the classic new player in a PvP open world game. As soon as they venture out they usually get squished and laughed at, a lot. The goal seems to be to make new players rage quit and there are lots of vets who have gotten really good at it. No wonder player retention sucks.

    This is the kind of game you have to have good friends to show you the ropes or you have to do a lot of study and research to understand how the game works before you venture forth. Most people just want to jump in and play.

    Instead of selling skill point packs they should sell different types of ships that instantly give you the training needed to fly that ship. That way no waiting around weeks while you get trained only to be crushed like a bug when you do finally get in that ship.

    Instead of getting put in a general corp., a new player should be able to pick from player friendly new player training corps who will walk them through everything they need to know to survive and prosper in such a game. Good training corps are out there but it takes reading through the forums and research to find. A good asset for the game that's hidden from the average starting player. When a new player completes the tutorial a list of new player training corporations should pop right up giving the player direction, right off the bat.

    I love the idea of the invasions but I have nothing to lose which is probably why I like them so much. I would imagine if I were in charge of some big organization and had to work my butt off to keep my stuff from constantly being destroyed and meaning I would get little sleep, then I would be pissed over this.
    GdemamiMendelHarikenGyva02

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • ShammFrammShammFramm Newbie CommonPosts: 19




    I think this is partly true - people hop into EVE hearing about the great stories but are met with something they didn't anticipate. EVE is hard to get into and while the New Player Experience is a step in the right direction, as well as things like The Agency, it still doesn't do enough to teach new players "what's next."





    This is precisely what people are complaining about. EVE isn't and never has been the type of game that tells you "whats next". There is no way for the game to answer that question. YOU have to answer it. This concept may turn off 95% of the players that try EVE, but like it or not, thats just the way it is. No matter how many new player experiences they come up with, the game doesn't lend itself well to any type of on-rails experience. YOU have to make a game of it. If you cant do that, and if you cant figure out how to do things in game, then EVE is likely not for you.

    EVE has thrived off the backs of the dedicated niche playerbase that it has always had. Trying to shake that up in hopes of snagging new short-term players is a terrible idea. The playerbase is right to complain question this new direction CCP is taking them on.
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Let's face it.  If CCP were so concerned about player retention, they wouldn't be selling skill points, they'd give them away instead.  There is no formula in-game where a new player can improve to the point of competing with the established crowd.  Everyone, new and veteran alike, earns skills on a real-time clock basis.  To counter this, new accounts are permitted to buy a set amount of skills, as if they had played for some amount of time.  This skill bump does not allow the new player to catch up to the veteran, the veteran will always be more skilled.

    It does, however, shake the confidence of every veteran.  Instead of their years worth of experience and skills, a newbie could purchase a couple of hundred hours worth.  The vets are not operating on their usual 10,000 to 1 basis, instead they are operating with a 10,000 to 100 basis.  It cuts the imbalance, but not as much as one might think.  Give the newb a +1 dagger, and listen to the wolves with BiS gear howl.

    Retention is a problem every MMORPG has encountered.  Putting a possible solution in a cash shop pretty much tells me it's desperation time at CCP.  Sad, I'd always hoped they would produce a version with a UI I could read.



    cheebaGdemamiGyva02Anskier

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • p4ttythep3rf3ctp4ttythep3rf3ct Member UncommonPosts: 194
    "a UI I could read." tell me about it. After reading this article, and learning it was FTP now, I downloaded the client and logged back in...it's been 2200 days or something ridiculous. Man....I see they tried to make it more friendly as a UI experience, but I was so lost. Almost like starting from square one again. I just started learning a new skill and logged out.
    Gyva02

    That's just, like, my opinion, man.

  • mraneremranere Member UncommonPosts: 29
    Nice. Nullsec is too safe. Buncha carebear alliances who got all complacent in their superiority with their regularly scheduled wars and massive capital fleet battles getting punked by a bunch of NPCs. Fucking Hilarious!
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,115
    Retention problem?

    PvP games need 75% Carebears and 25% Hardcore PvPers to thrive.

    I know most people disagree, devs included, and that’s why most FFA PVP games fail.

    When not even High Sec is safe, most Carebears just quit the game, and that’s EVE problem.

    Risk vs Rewards is too unbalanced in EVE, in favour of Hardcore PVPers of course.
    They basically have an easy ride, blowing stuff up with little risk, even in High Sec,  while Carebears who usually do the most boring and time consuming tasks like mining, lose their stuff in matters of minutes after hours of mining or transporting goods.

    No one likes to lose stuff which took hours to gather, and in EVE that happens way too often.
    For the regular player there is this feeling that you make one step forward and two backward.

    So I am not surprised they have retention problems.


    KyleranGdemamiGyva02TacticalZombehSpottyGekkoAnskier
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305

    Mendel said:

    Let's face it.  If CCP were so concerned about player retention, they wouldn't be selling skill points, they'd give them away instead.  There is no formula in-game where a new player can improve to the point of competing with the established crowd.  Everyone, new and veteran alike, earns skills on a real-time clock basis.  To counter this, new accounts are permitted to buy a set amount of skills, as if they had played for some amount of time.  This skill bump does not allow the new player to catch up to the veteran, the veteran will always be more skilled.

    It does, however, shake the confidence of every veteran.  Instead of their years worth of experience and skills, a newbie could purchase a couple of hundred hours worth.  The vets are not operating on their usual 10,000 to 1 basis, instead they are operating with a 10,000 to 100 basis.  It cuts the imbalance, but not as much as one might think.  Give the newb a +1 dagger, and listen to the wolves with BiS gear howl.

    Retention is a problem every MMORPG has encountered.  Putting a possible solution in a cash shop pretty much tells me it's desperation time at CCP.  Sad, I'd always hoped they would produce a version with a UI I could read.






    You have to understand what the real cry is about. veteran players have excess of skill points,so they sell them off for billions, its not that some noob gaining 1 million skill points matters, its barely a drop in the bucket for eve (to give perspective I am mostly afk off and off with eve for many years and I have 125 million skill points most are spent on garbage because i had no use for them). their issue is not people catching up up, their issue is about not being able to have new players pay their bills by selling their skill points so they can play for free.

    Its comical as yet again we have the greedy free loaders crying about the company who does everything to make the game exist making some money. the greedy party in this is the players yet again, trying to con you into thinking its "the developer". Players sold that same amount of skill points to other players for about 30 bucks, when they did it at a massively inflated price it was peachy ok!
    Gyva02
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    These moves seem illogical.  Why annoy the PVP player base in null sec? Drifter attacks are PVE content so it would seem to make more sense to have them in high sec, where more of the PVE style players tend to congregate?

    Reminds me of DAOCs TOA expansion mechanics which didn't turn out very well.

    The changes to local have long since been debated, looks like CCP is giving it a whirl to see how successful it turns out.

    If not so great, they can quickly roll it back and go back to the way it was.

    Again though, probably should be applied everywhere, not just in null sec.

    CODE should have the same opportunity to ambush miners in hi sec as those in null sec do.



    Gdemami

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  • LaterisLateris Member UncommonPosts: 1,830
    Totally agree with CCP's decision, because over the years this really has allowed player alliances to craft scripts that detect enemies when they enter a territory even if they’re in stealth. Low sec has been too easy for some time. The sky is not falling. One only need to adjust their game play per Probes.
    Kylerankrgwynne
  • TK-229TK-229 Member UncommonPosts: 6
    Lol, Null sec gets it's own version of CODE and they freak TF out hahahaha
    vonryan123
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    Wow finally working of making the carebear krabs in null work for the isk again...HA! Now it's their turn to adapt or die.
    As someone who has been PVP'ing in EVE, much of it solo, for 15+ years, this new change isn't actually easy for us either.

    Instead of jumping in and having instant intel that there are players in the system, we have to jump in and scout every single system now.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that they're trying this out ahead of adding new structures into the game that enable local chat.  In other words, if you want local intel, then you have to install a structure. 

    If that's the case, then I'm against it.  It means the carebears, and I do my fair share of krabbing too on my six krab accounts, will have too much power and information.
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