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MMORPG.com : General : The Downfall of MMORPGs - TheHiveLeader

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Comments

  • Prime_DirectivePrime_Directive Member RarePosts: 1,709
    edited June 28
    Sovrath said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    I don't know why people keep talking like wow or companies cloning wow is the problem.

    The problem is all those companies not cloning wow keep failing.  

    In fact there are decent amount of wow clone which are doing well(gw2, eso, ff14 etc).

    And there are so many mmorpg, why do we need to keep making more and more.  People do realize if everyone keep chasing new mmorpg, old one dies right?  Which sum up why developer stop wanting to make new mmorpg because it most likely die very fast.


    I don't think Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy 14 are World of Warcraft clones.

    Aion? IN the style of World of Warcraft
    Lord of the Rings Online? In the style of World of Warcraft
    Rift? sure ... etc, etc


    Lotro is not in the style of w/o/w . simply for the 1 basic reason, I play it. :) 
    But lets not go down the road of pointing fingers at any particular game because "we" are the consumer, we pay "their" bills.
    Gdemami
    There is a multiverse inside our minds which millions live.
  • gunklackergunklacker Member UncommonPosts: 247
    edited June 28
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's



  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's

    Indeed. And there are more than a billion players online. That is why F2P rules, that is why games like LoL and Fortnite have more than 100 million players each. That is why the downfall of the MMORPGs is obvious. While the market becomes bigger and bigger, the MMORPGs become smaller. 

    What did WoW? The game stepped off the open world and went into solo and multiplayer focused instances. Then most players played solo and offline. That was the exact moment when the internet services became cheaper and larger. Blizzard had a fan base, and a cash pile. So they invested hundreds of millions for advertisement and marketing. And used the base of players created by W3. But that model - safe and solo with possible multiplayer, reached its limits.  The main problem of all MMORPGs now is the lack of long term group goals. LoL gives you all - RPG, competition and cooperation in fast games. So why the players should play MMORPG instead?
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,140
    edited June 29
    ikcin said:
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's

    Indeed. And there are more than a billion players online. That is why F2P rules, that is why games like LoL and Fortnite have more than 100 million players each. That is why the downfall of the MMORPGs is obvious. While the market becomes bigger and bigger, the MMORPGs become smaller. 

    What did WoW? The game stepped off the open world and went into solo and multiplayer focused instances. Then most players played solo and offline. That was the exact moment when the internet services became cheaper and larger. Blizzard had a fan base, and a cash pile. So they invested hundreds of millions for advertisement and marketing. And used the base of players created by W3. But that model - safe and solo with possible multiplayer, reached its limits.  The main problem of all MMORPGs now is the lack of long term group goals. LoL gives you all - RPG, competition and cooperation in fast games. So why the players should play MMORPG instead?
    The portion of gamers that want to invest the extra time and dedication for an MMORPG has always been and will always be a small subset of the game playing public. The vast majority want to play quick matches and that is exactly what LOL and Fornite give them. 

    All that has really happened recently is that the number of people who play games has mushroomed exponentially compared to those who played at the turn of the century but most of those are casual gamers who wouldn't know an MMORPG if one bit them on the ass.

    Some of that new blood however do play MMORPGs so the numbers today is actually at an all time high. If you want to call that a decline because the numbers are dwarfed by the Fortnite or LOL numbers, so be it, but you're actually wrong.

    The only decline in MMORPGs is in studios not wanting to go through the hassle and risk of developing a new one when they can make so much more money with less risk slapping together an FPS, BR or MOBA.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,397
    Kyleran said:
    Nilden said:
    The devs are to blame as well... *shows Anthem gameplay*

    Yeah that's when I stopped the video.

    NOT A MMO.

    Seriously you can't even make a video about the downfall of MMOs without including non-MMOs.

    /slowclap
    "I'd rather argue about what is or isn't an MMO than the actual point of the video."

    /slowclap
    The inability of the gaming press and consumers to properly distinguish what is or is not a MMO is a significant factor in the genre's overall decline.

    To take liberty with a quote by Syndrome, "if every game is a MMO, then none will be."

    Besides, who watches videos, summarize your points in a proper forum post which can be addressed or I'll just have to go with my own script.

    Everybody wants to be a streamer,  get a real job folks.

    ;)


    Man, I remember a few years ago getting into a big spat right here on this board about what is or isn't an MMO. The term has gotten stretched out badly today.
    KyleranPhaserlight
  • jeeshadowjeeshadow Member UncommonPosts: 133
    There never was a "united" front on what gamers believe is a true MMORPG, or a good MMORPG, or the proper way to enjoy an MMORPG.

    It would be naive to think the gaming community would ever organize to do anything constructive that would actually help their own enjoyment in games.
  • RemaliRemali Member UncommonPosts: 322
    @jeeshadow Its only natural my friend we are all human beings with different tastes that's why I always laugh when some ppl demand others to play their own way.. the Right way lol
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    edited June 30
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's

    Indeed. And there are more than a billion players online. That is why F2P rules, that is why games like LoL and Fortnite have more than 100 million players each. That is why the downfall of the MMORPGs is obvious. While the market becomes bigger and bigger, the MMORPGs become smaller. 

    What did WoW? The game stepped off the open world and went into solo and multiplayer focused instances. Then most players played solo and offline. That was the exact moment when the internet services became cheaper and larger. Blizzard had a fan base, and a cash pile. So they invested hundreds of millions for advertisement and marketing. And used the base of players created by W3. But that model - safe and solo with possible multiplayer, reached its limits.  The main problem of all MMORPGs now is the lack of long term group goals. LoL gives you all - RPG, competition and cooperation in fast games. So why the players should play MMORPG instead?
    The portion of gamers that want to invest the extra time and dedication for an MMORPG has always been and will always be a small subset of the game playing public. The vast majority want to play quick matches and that is exactly what LOL and Fornite give them. 

    All that has really happened recently is that the number of people who play games has mushroomed exponentially compared to those who played at the turn of the century but most of those are casual gamers who wouldn't know an MMORPG if one bit them on the ass.

    Some of that new blood however do play MMORPGs so the numbers today is actually at an all time high. If you want to call that a decline because the numbers are dwarfed by the Fortnite or LOL numbers, so be it, but you're actually wrong.

    The only decline in MMORPGs is in studios not wanting to go through the hassle and risk of developing a new one when they can make so much more money with less risk slapping together an FPS, BR or MOBA.
    In fact the MMORPG market is smaller now then it was few years ago. Maybe the only declining niche if we are talking about online games. Also most players spend hours in LoL. So you cannot blame the gamers. MMORPGs are crap. There is a game called Drakensang, which gives all WoW has. A browser game. This is the quality of the MMORPGs now. 

    Open world, immersive play, competition, cooperation, long term goals for wars and politics. That should be the MMORPG. Instead we have broken, solo focused games, where the only long term goal is to reach max level and gear with a solo character. This is the legacy of WoW. And any moba or FPS is much better.
    Gdemami
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,814
    edited June 30
    An excercise in bad reasoning:

    1) make up a conlcusion
    2) look for arguments that could support that conclusion
    Post edited by Gdemami on
    parrotpholk
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,140
    edited June 30
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's

    Indeed. And there are more than a billion players online. That is why F2P rules, that is why games like LoL and Fortnite have more than 100 million players each. That is why the downfall of the MMORPGs is obvious. While the market becomes bigger and bigger, the MMORPGs become smaller. 

    What did WoW? The game stepped off the open world and went into solo and multiplayer focused instances. Then most players played solo and offline. That was the exact moment when the internet services became cheaper and larger. Blizzard had a fan base, and a cash pile. So they invested hundreds of millions for advertisement and marketing. And used the base of players created by W3. But that model - safe and solo with possible multiplayer, reached its limits.  The main problem of all MMORPGs now is the lack of long term group goals. LoL gives you all - RPG, competition and cooperation in fast games. So why the players should play MMORPG instead?
    The portion of gamers that want to invest the extra time and dedication for an MMORPG has always been and will always be a small subset of the game playing public. The vast majority want to play quick matches and that is exactly what LOL and Fornite give them. 

    All that has really happened recently is that the number of people who play games has mushroomed exponentially compared to those who played at the turn of the century but most of those are casual gamers who wouldn't know an MMORPG if one bit them on the ass.

    Some of that new blood however do play MMORPGs so the numbers today is actually at an all time high. If you want to call that a decline because the numbers are dwarfed by the Fortnite or LOL numbers, so be it, but you're actually wrong.

    The only decline in MMORPGs is in studios not wanting to go through the hassle and risk of developing a new one when they can make so much more money with less risk slapping together an FPS, BR or MOBA.
    In fact the MMORPG market is smaller now then it was few years ago. Maybe the only declining niche if we are talking about online games. Also most players spend hours in LoL. So you cannot blame the gamers. MMORPGs are crap. There is a game called Drakensang, which gives all WoW has. A browser game. This is the quality of the MMORPGs now. 

    Open world, immersive play, competition, cooperation, long term goals for wars and politics. That should be the MMORPG. Instead we have broken, solo focused games, where the only long term goal is to reach max level and gear with a solo character. This is the legacy of WoW. And any moba or FPS is much better.
    You can qualify and disqualify games from being MMORPGs using whatever personal preference criteria you want - you can have fun with numbers that way if you want - but the fact remains that games with persistent worlds where you see others going about their own business out in the world, have long term leveling goals that last months, etc,. have more players playing them today than ever before.

    The numbers, as I already said, may be a drop in the bucket compared to LOL and Fortnite but that's a different story.

    Trying to figure out the viability or health of MMORPGs in 2019 by comparing the number of players who play them vs. those who play Fortnite or LOL is faulty logic. They never were nor will they ever be the most popular gaming genre and that's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just reality.
    Torval
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's

    Indeed. And there are more than a billion players online. That is why F2P rules, that is why games like LoL and Fortnite have more than 100 million players each. That is why the downfall of the MMORPGs is obvious. While the market becomes bigger and bigger, the MMORPGs become smaller. 

    What did WoW? The game stepped off the open world and went into solo and multiplayer focused instances. Then most players played solo and offline. That was the exact moment when the internet services became cheaper and larger. Blizzard had a fan base, and a cash pile. So they invested hundreds of millions for advertisement and marketing. And used the base of players created by W3. But that model - safe and solo with possible multiplayer, reached its limits.  The main problem of all MMORPGs now is the lack of long term group goals. LoL gives you all - RPG, competition and cooperation in fast games. So why the players should play MMORPG instead?
    The portion of gamers that want to invest the extra time and dedication for an MMORPG has always been and will always be a small subset of the game playing public. The vast majority want to play quick matches and that is exactly what LOL and Fornite give them. 

    All that has really happened recently is that the number of people who play games has mushroomed exponentially compared to those who played at the turn of the century but most of those are casual gamers who wouldn't know an MMORPG if one bit them on the ass.

    Some of that new blood however do play MMORPGs so the numbers today is actually at an all time high. If you want to call that a decline because the numbers are dwarfed by the Fortnite or LOL numbers, so be it, but you're actually wrong.

    The only decline in MMORPGs is in studios not wanting to go through the hassle and risk of developing a new one when they can make so much more money with less risk slapping together an FPS, BR or MOBA.
    In fact the MMORPG market is smaller now then it was few years ago. Maybe the only declining niche if we are talking about online games. Also most players spend hours in LoL. So you cannot blame the gamers. MMORPGs are crap. There is a game called Drakensang, which gives all WoW has. A browser game. This is the quality of the MMORPGs now. 

    Open world, immersive play, competition, cooperation, long term goals for wars and politics. That should be the MMORPG. Instead we have broken, solo focused games, where the only long term goal is to reach max level and gear with a solo character. This is the legacy of WoW. And any moba or FPS is much better.
    You can qualify and disqualify games from being MMORPGs using whatever personal preference criteria you want - you can have fun with numbers that way if you want - but the fact remains that games with persistent worlds where you see others going about their own business out in the world, have long term leveling goals that last months, etc,. have more players playing them today than ever before.

    The numbers, as I already said, may be a drop in the bucket compared to LOL and Fortnite but that's a different story.

    Trying to figure out the viability or health of MMORPGs in 2019 by comparing the number of players who play them vs. those who play Fortnite or LOL is faulty logic. They never were nor will they ever be the most popular gaming genre and that's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just reality.
    So Dark Souls is a MMORPG - it has persistent world, and you can see the other players, doing their own business. Well, you cannot play with them, except in specific cases. Blizzard screwed even the meaning of the MMORPG. 

    Also the market share and the number of the players of the MMORPGs reached the peak in 2011-2012. Now less players play MMORPGs. The most played games now - WoW, ESO, GW2 have less players combined than only WoW then.  At the same time every other niche on the market became much bigger, and some literally boomed, like the mobas. 
    Gdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,140
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's

    Indeed. And there are more than a billion players online. That is why F2P rules, that is why games like LoL and Fortnite have more than 100 million players each. That is why the downfall of the MMORPGs is obvious. While the market becomes bigger and bigger, the MMORPGs become smaller. 

    What did WoW? The game stepped off the open world and went into solo and multiplayer focused instances. Then most players played solo and offline. That was the exact moment when the internet services became cheaper and larger. Blizzard had a fan base, and a cash pile. So they invested hundreds of millions for advertisement and marketing. And used the base of players created by W3. But that model - safe and solo with possible multiplayer, reached its limits.  The main problem of all MMORPGs now is the lack of long term group goals. LoL gives you all - RPG, competition and cooperation in fast games. So why the players should play MMORPG instead?
    The portion of gamers that want to invest the extra time and dedication for an MMORPG has always been and will always be a small subset of the game playing public. The vast majority want to play quick matches and that is exactly what LOL and Fornite give them. 

    All that has really happened recently is that the number of people who play games has mushroomed exponentially compared to those who played at the turn of the century but most of those are casual gamers who wouldn't know an MMORPG if one bit them on the ass.

    Some of that new blood however do play MMORPGs so the numbers today is actually at an all time high. If you want to call that a decline because the numbers are dwarfed by the Fortnite or LOL numbers, so be it, but you're actually wrong.

    The only decline in MMORPGs is in studios not wanting to go through the hassle and risk of developing a new one when they can make so much more money with less risk slapping together an FPS, BR or MOBA.
    In fact the MMORPG market is smaller now then it was few years ago. Maybe the only declining niche if we are talking about online games. Also most players spend hours in LoL. So you cannot blame the gamers. MMORPGs are crap. There is a game called Drakensang, which gives all WoW has. A browser game. This is the quality of the MMORPGs now. 

    Open world, immersive play, competition, cooperation, long term goals for wars and politics. That should be the MMORPG. Instead we have broken, solo focused games, where the only long term goal is to reach max level and gear with a solo character. This is the legacy of WoW. And any moba or FPS is much better.
    You can qualify and disqualify games from being MMORPGs using whatever personal preference criteria you want - you can have fun with numbers that way if you want - but the fact remains that games with persistent worlds where you see others going about their own business out in the world, have long term leveling goals that last months, etc,. have more players playing them today than ever before.

    The numbers, as I already said, may be a drop in the bucket compared to LOL and Fortnite but that's a different story.

    Trying to figure out the viability or health of MMORPGs in 2019 by comparing the number of players who play them vs. those who play Fortnite or LOL is faulty logic. They never were nor will they ever be the most popular gaming genre and that's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just reality.
    So Dark Souls is a MMORPG - it has persistent world, and you can see the other players, doing their own business. Well, you cannot play with them, except in specific cases. Blizzard screwed even the meaning of the MMORPG. 

    Also the market share and the number of the players of the MMORPGs reached the peak in 2011-2012. Now less players play MMORPGs. The most played games now - WoW, ESO, GW2 have less players combined than only WoW then.  At the same time every other niche on the market became much bigger, and some literally boomed, like the mobas. 
    Market share has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about raw numbers not what % of the game playing public plays MMORPGs.

    You mention 3 other MMORPGs and compare it to WOW. Back in WOW's heyday there were maybe 10 MMORPGs you could play. Now there are 10 times that many... add all those up and get back to me.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,930
    I see Ikcin is trying to redefine the meaning of MMO again, or just the meaning of multiplayer.

    ’Checks his own sig.’ Yup, still at it.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    edited June 30
    Iselin said:

    You can qualify and disqualify games from being MMORPGs using whatever personal preference criteria you want - you can have fun with numbers that way if you want - but the fact remains that games with persistent worlds where you see others going about their own business out in the world, have long term leveling goals that last months, etc,. have more players playing them today than ever before.

    The numbers, as I already said, may be a drop in the bucket compared to LOL and Fortnite but that's a different story.

    Trying to figure out the viability or health of MMORPGs in 2019 by comparing the number of players who play them vs. those who play Fortnite or LOL is faulty logic. They never were nor will they ever be the most popular gaming genre and that's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just reality.
    So Dark Souls is a MMORPG - it has persistent world, and you can see the other players, doing their own business. Well, you cannot play with them, except in specific cases. Blizzard screwed even the meaning of the MMORPG. 

    Also the market share and the number of the players of the MMORPGs reached the peak in 2011-2012. Now less players play MMORPGs. The most played games now - WoW, ESO, GW2 have less players combined than only WoW then.  At the same time every other niche on the market became much bigger, and some literally boomed, like the mobas. 
    Market share has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about raw numbers not what % of the game playing public plays MMORPGs.

    You mention 3 other MMORPGs and compare it to WOW. Back in WOW's heyday there were maybe 10 MMORPGs you could play. Now there are 10 times that many... add all those up and get back to me.
    So point these 30 games, that combined have more players. Could you :)


    lahnmir said:
    I see Ikcin is trying to redefine the meaning of MMO again, or just the meaning of multiplayer.

    ’Checks his own sig.’ Yup, still at it.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    I already did that. Shared world does not mean multiplayer game. For multiplayer there should be implemented need of cooperation and/or competition. Also the real MMORPG must have multiplayer RP. WoW has such in fact, pretty lame - factions.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,140
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:

    You can qualify and disqualify games from being MMORPGs using whatever personal preference criteria you want - you can have fun with numbers that way if you want - but the fact remains that games with persistent worlds where you see others going about their own business out in the world, have long term leveling goals that last months, etc,. have more players playing them today than ever before.

    The numbers, as I already said, may be a drop in the bucket compared to LOL and Fortnite but that's a different story.

    Trying to figure out the viability or health of MMORPGs in 2019 by comparing the number of players who play them vs. those who play Fortnite or LOL is faulty logic. They never were nor will they ever be the most popular gaming genre and that's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just reality.
    So Dark Souls is a MMORPG - it has persistent world, and you can see the other players, doing their own business. Well, you cannot play with them, except in specific cases. Blizzard screwed even the meaning of the MMORPG. 

    Also the market share and the number of the players of the MMORPGs reached the peak in 2011-2012. Now less players play MMORPGs. The most played games now - WoW, ESO, GW2 have less players combined than only WoW then.  At the same time every other niche on the market became much bigger, and some literally boomed, like the mobas. 
    Market share has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about raw numbers not what % of the game playing public plays MMORPGs.

    You mention 3 other MMORPGs and compare it to WOW. Back in WOW's heyday there were maybe 10 MMORPGs you could play. Now there are 10 times that many... add all those up and get back to me.
    So point these 30 games, that combined have more players. Could you :)
    Fuck no. You do your own work.
    cheyanecheeba
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    Back in the day there were few options for multiplayer + rpg.

    Now basically every online game has levels, loot, builds and reward tiers all delivered at rapid pace.

    The mmorpg model of grind -> fun is a dead end in today's market, especially for PVE games where the content drys up quickly.

    The only new games that even resemble MMOs nowadays are slot machines with an MMO paint like BDO which just exploit gambling addicts.
    Torval
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    edited June 30
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:

    You can qualify and disqualify games from being MMORPGs using whatever personal preference criteria you want - you can have fun with numbers that way if you want - but the fact remains that games with persistent worlds where you see others going about their own business out in the world, have long term leveling goals that last months, etc,. have more players playing them today than ever before.

    The numbers, as I already said, may be a drop in the bucket compared to LOL and Fortnite but that's a different story.

    Trying to figure out the viability or health of MMORPGs in 2019 by comparing the number of players who play them vs. those who play Fortnite or LOL is faulty logic. They never were nor will they ever be the most popular gaming genre and that's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just reality.
    So Dark Souls is a MMORPG - it has persistent world, and you can see the other players, doing their own business. Well, you cannot play with them, except in specific cases. Blizzard screwed even the meaning of the MMORPG. 

    Also the market share and the number of the players of the MMORPGs reached the peak in 2011-2012. Now less players play MMORPGs. The most played games now - WoW, ESO, GW2 have less players combined than only WoW then.  At the same time every other niche on the market became much bigger, and some literally boomed, like the mobas. 
    Market share has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about raw numbers not what % of the game playing public plays MMORPGs.

    You mention 3 other MMORPGs and compare it to WOW. Back in WOW's heyday there were maybe 10 MMORPGs you could play. Now there are 10 times that many... add all those up and get back to me.
    So point these 30 games, that combined have more players. Could you :)
    Fuck no. You do your own work.
    What a joke are you? I say there are not such games. You cannot prove your own words.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,905
    edited June 30
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:

    You can qualify and disqualify games from being MMORPGs using whatever personal preference criteria you want - you can have fun with numbers that way if you want - but the fact remains that games with persistent worlds where you see others going about their own business out in the world, have long term leveling goals that last months, etc,. have more players playing them today than ever before.

    The numbers, as I already said, may be a drop in the bucket compared to LOL and Fortnite but that's a different story.

    Trying to figure out the viability or health of MMORPGs in 2019 by comparing the number of players who play them vs. those who play Fortnite or LOL is faulty logic. They never were nor will they ever be the most popular gaming genre and that's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just reality.
    So Dark Souls is a MMORPG - it has persistent world, and you can see the other players, doing their own business. Well, you cannot play with them, except in specific cases. Blizzard screwed even the meaning of the MMORPG. 

    Also the market share and the number of the players of the MMORPGs reached the peak in 2011-2012. Now less players play MMORPGs. The most played games now - WoW, ESO, GW2 have less players combined than only WoW then.  At the same time every other niche on the market became much bigger, and some literally boomed, like the mobas. 
    Market share has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about raw numbers not what % of the game playing public plays MMORPGs.

    You mention 3 other MMORPGs and compare it to WOW. Back in WOW's heyday there were maybe 10 MMORPGs you could play. Now there are 10 times that many... add all those up and get back to me.
    So point these 30 games, that combined have more players. Could you :)
    Fuck no. You do your own work.
    What a joke are you? I say there are not such games. You cannot prove your own words.
    gonna point out here that NCSFS reported 17 million players for Lineage 1( the strongest game in there stable ) last year , Runescape also has 5-6 Million of players ..

        These are a couple that are not generally counted , there are others , Now if you begin to factor in the huge number of EMU servers for SWG, Lineage 2,UO , Wow, COH .. etc ..   And all retail  games  there are alot of people playing actual MMORPGs
    TorvalIselin
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    Scorchien said:
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:

    You can qualify and disqualify games from being MMORPGs using whatever personal preference criteria you want - you can have fun with numbers that way if you want - but the fact remains that games with persistent worlds where you see others going about their own business out in the world, have long term leveling goals that last months, etc,. have more players playing them today than ever before.

    The numbers, as I already said, may be a drop in the bucket compared to LOL and Fortnite but that's a different story.

    Trying to figure out the viability or health of MMORPGs in 2019 by comparing the number of players who play them vs. those who play Fortnite or LOL is faulty logic. They never were nor will they ever be the most popular gaming genre and that's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just reality.
    So Dark Souls is a MMORPG - it has persistent world, and you can see the other players, doing their own business. Well, you cannot play with them, except in specific cases. Blizzard screwed even the meaning of the MMORPG. 

    Also the market share and the number of the players of the MMORPGs reached the peak in 2011-2012. Now less players play MMORPGs. The most played games now - WoW, ESO, GW2 have less players combined than only WoW then.  At the same time every other niche on the market became much bigger, and some literally boomed, like the mobas. 
    Market share has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about raw numbers not what % of the game playing public plays MMORPGs.

    You mention 3 other MMORPGs and compare it to WOW. Back in WOW's heyday there were maybe 10 MMORPGs you could play. Now there are 10 times that many... add all those up and get back to me.
    So point these 30 games, that combined have more players. Could you :)
    Fuck no. You do your own work.
    What a joke are you? I say there are not such games. You cannot prove your own words.
    gonna point out here that NCSFS reported 17 million players for Lineage 1( the strongest game in there stable ) last year , Runescape also has 5-6 Million of players ..

        These are a couple that are not generally counted , there are others , Now if you begin to factor in the huge number of EMU servers for SWG, Lineage 2,UO , Wow, COH .. etc ..   And all retail  games  there are alot of people playing actual MMORPGs
    L2 and L1 had more players in 2012. I say that the MMORPG niche is maybe the only one that declines on the online gaming market. And this is a fact. You can count, and almost every game will have smaller population now. And the new games like BDO did not go even close to the old ones. Even if we count the mobile version of BDO that hardly could be called MMORPG.
    Iselin
  • paulythebpaulytheb Member UncommonPosts: 363
    MMO's taught me there are only 3 types of quests in the world. At first I was sad that the world had only 3 types of quests. Then I was angry that the world only had 3 types of quests. Now I don't do quests anymore.

    Now, I just want to watch the world burn.
    Kyleran

    ( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)

    An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.

  • neofitneofit Member UncommonPosts: 16


    "What caused the downfall of the MMORPG?"



    Fortnite



    Nah :). I stopped playing way before that. Nowadays, anywhere you look, it's all about manga or more generally asian style, and/or forced, non-consensual PvP. Both are deal-breakrers for me.
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,486
    Scorchien said:
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:

    You can qualify and disqualify games from being MMORPGs using whatever personal preference criteria you want - you can have fun with numbers that way if you want - but the fact remains that games with persistent worlds where you see others going about their own business out in the world, have long term leveling goals that last months, etc,. have more players playing them today than ever before.

    The numbers, as I already said, may be a drop in the bucket compared to LOL and Fortnite but that's a different story.

    Trying to figure out the viability or health of MMORPGs in 2019 by comparing the number of players who play them vs. those who play Fortnite or LOL is faulty logic. They never were nor will they ever be the most popular gaming genre and that's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just reality.
    So Dark Souls is a MMORPG - it has persistent world, and you can see the other players, doing their own business. Well, you cannot play with them, except in specific cases. Blizzard screwed even the meaning of the MMORPG. 

    Also the market share and the number of the players of the MMORPGs reached the peak in 2011-2012. Now less players play MMORPGs. The most played games now - WoW, ESO, GW2 have less players combined than only WoW then.  At the same time every other niche on the market became much bigger, and some literally boomed, like the mobas. 
    Market share has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about raw numbers not what % of the game playing public plays MMORPGs.

    You mention 3 other MMORPGs and compare it to WOW. Back in WOW's heyday there were maybe 10 MMORPGs you could play. Now there are 10 times that many... add all those up and get back to me.
    So point these 30 games, that combined have more players. Could you :)
    Fuck no. You do your own work.
    What a joke are you? I say there are not such games. You cannot prove your own words.
    gonna point out here that NCSFS reported 17 million players for Lineage 1( the strongest game in there stable ) last year , Runescape also has 5-6 Million of players ..

        These are a couple that are not generally counted , there are others , Now if you begin to factor in the huge number of EMU servers for SWG, Lineage 2,UO , Wow, COH .. etc ..   And all retail  games  there are alot of people playing actual MMORPGs
    What exactly defines a "player" in the L1 number?  All time in the lifespan of the game, or did 17M sub for at least a month in the past six months ?

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,450
    Sovrath said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    I don't know why people keep talking like wow or companies cloning wow is the problem.

    The problem is all those companies not cloning wow keep failing.  

    In fact there are decent amount of wow clone which are doing well(gw2, eso, ff14 etc).

    And there are so many mmorpg, why do we need to keep making more and more.  People do realize if everyone keep chasing new mmorpg, old one dies right?  Which sum up why developer stop wanting to make new mmorpg because it most likely die very fast.


    I don't think Elder Scrolls Online or Final Fantasy 14 are World of Warcraft clones.

    Aion? IN the style of World of Warcraft
    Lord of the Rings Online? In the style of World of Warcraft
    Rift? sure ... etc, etc


    Lotro is not in the style of w/o/w . simply for the 1 basic reason, I play it. :) 
    But lets not go down the road of pointing fingers at any particular game because "we" are the consumer, we pay "their" bills.
    hmmm, I'm going to disagree with that. B)



  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,486
    edited July 1
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    Iselin said:
    ikcin said:
    ikcin said:
    Spiider said:
    Downfall of gaming in general is for the same reasons all industries go down: Money hungry excel sheet executives enter the field and fk it all up. This is why medicine only treats what is rentable, why banking became industry of crooks, why wars are started... Gaming used to be for gamers, now everyone games... And 'everyone' is, on average, of low IQ and short attention span.
    This is a rather funny assumption to make on a website that is dedicated to MMORPGs. Are you a gamer? I don't what's funnier, the fact that you made a comment like that here, or the fact that people actually agree with your comment. I made a comment that I could tell based on the customization of a character if the person playing that character is male or female, and the guys who admit to playing girls got their panties in a twist. Yet you make an erroneous assumption that the average gamer has an average to low IQ. Funny stuff!
    There are more gamers online than ever now. Much more than they were in 2009-2012 - the golden era of WoW. That is why WoW never been even close to the player base of games like LoL or Fortnite. The gaming in general is in its best time. And that makes the downfall of the MMORPGs even more obvious.
    YES because there more people on the planet now..
      

    Dec, 2009

    1,802 millions
    26.6 %

    Internet World Stats

     Mar 2019   4,383 millions    56.8 % Internet World Stats

    and this isn't counting population increase's

    Indeed. And there are more than a billion players online. That is why F2P rules, that is why games like LoL and Fortnite have more than 100 million players each. That is why the downfall of the MMORPGs is obvious. While the market becomes bigger and bigger, the MMORPGs become smaller. 

    What did WoW? The game stepped off the open world and went into solo and multiplayer focused instances. Then most players played solo and offline. That was the exact moment when the internet services became cheaper and larger. Blizzard had a fan base, and a cash pile. So they invested hundreds of millions for advertisement and marketing. And used the base of players created by W3. But that model - safe and solo with possible multiplayer, reached its limits.  The main problem of all MMORPGs now is the lack of long term group goals. LoL gives you all - RPG, competition and cooperation in fast games. So why the players should play MMORPG instead?
    The portion of gamers that want to invest the extra time and dedication for an MMORPG has always been and will always be a small subset of the game playing public. The vast majority want to play quick matches and that is exactly what LOL and Fornite give them. 

    All that has really happened recently is that the number of people who play games has mushroomed exponentially compared to those who played at the turn of the century but most of those are casual gamers who wouldn't know an MMORPG if one bit them on the ass.

    Some of that new blood however do play MMORPGs so the numbers today is actually at an all time high. If you want to call that a decline because the numbers are dwarfed by the Fortnite or LOL numbers, so be it, but you're actually wrong.

    The only decline in MMORPGs is in studios not wanting to go through the hassle and risk of developing a new one when they can make so much more money with less risk slapping together an FPS, BR or MOBA.
    In fact the MMORPG market is smaller now then it was few years ago. Maybe the only declining niche if we are talking about online games. Also most players spend hours in LoL. So you cannot blame the gamers. MMORPGs are crap. There is a game called Drakensang, which gives all WoW has. A browser game. This is the quality of the MMORPGs now. 

    Open world, immersive play, competition, cooperation, long term goals for wars and politics. That should be the MMORPG. Instead we have broken, solo focused games, where the only long term goal is to reach max level and gear with a solo character. This is the legacy of WoW. And any moba or FPS is much better.
    You can qualify and disqualify games from being MMORPGs using whatever personal preference criteria you want - you can have fun with numbers that way if you want - but the fact remains that games with persistent worlds where you see others going about their own business out in the world, have long term leveling goals that last months, etc,. have more players playing them today than ever before.

    The numbers, as I already said, may be a drop in the bucket compared to LOL and Fortnite but that's a different story.

    Trying to figure out the viability or health of MMORPGs in 2019 by comparing the number of players who play them vs. those who play Fortnite or LOL is faulty logic. They never were nor will they ever be the most popular gaming genre and that's neither a good thing nor a bad thing, just reality.
    So Dark Souls is a MMORPG - it has persistent world, and you can see the other players, doing their own business. Well, you cannot play with them, except in specific cases. Blizzard screwed even the meaning of the MMORPG. 

    Also the market share and the number of the players of the MMORPGs reached the peak in 2011-2012. Now less players play MMORPGs. The most played games now - WoW, ESO, GW2 have less players combined than only WoW then.  At the same time every other niche on the market became much bigger, and some literally boomed, like the mobas. 
    Market share has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I'm talking about raw numbers not what % of the game playing public plays MMORPGs.

    You mention 3 other MMORPGs and compare it to WOW. Back in WOW's heyday there were maybe 10 MMORPGs you could play. Now there are 10 times that many... add all those up and get back to me.
    I would argue WOW's "heyday" was from 2008-2012 and there most definitely
    was a large number of MMORPGs to chose from, heck at least 10 could have been considered WOW clones.

    Even if we go back to 2004 the selection was still quite large, and all played quite a bit more differently than MMOs of recent years.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,486
    edited July 1
    Here's an IGN article from Jan 2004, and it's clear there was a great deal of excitement about the MMORPGs on the near horizon, though I was surprised at how many never really made it out of the gate or quickly tanked.


    https://m.ign.com/articles/2004/01/23/mmo-2004
    Phaserlight

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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