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Have you murdered another player in a MMORPG?

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  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member RarePosts: 2,862
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Lol people are always interesting. Never thought I would get reactions to a word like murder in a genre literally 90% of gameplay is killing.  
    Except you aren't killing just like playing Dodgeball isn't assault.


    yes you are not killing, but you say kill 10 rats, I killed that boss, and I need to kill 100 mobs till the next lvl

    again I ask how the hell you guys function on real world if a word is too hard?
    We function because we know it's a game, we know we aren't really "killing anything" and we are smart enough to pick up on someone's "ulterior motive" when they used the word "murder" which is rarely used in a game sense when dealing with other players.
    rarely? since when? I need to recall the part I said the status of red named was murderers in old games? let the wording go, you give too much value to words, actions are what should be judged
    Gdemami
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,324
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Lol people are always interesting. Never thought I would get reactions to a word like murder in a genre literally 90% of gameplay is killing.  
    Except you aren't killing just like playing Dodgeball isn't assault.


    yes you are not killing, but you say kill 10 rats, I killed that boss, and I need to kill 100 mobs till the next lvl

    again I ask how the hell you guys function on real world if a word is too hard?
    We function because we know it's a game, we know we aren't really "killing anything" and we are smart enough to pick up on someone's "ulterior motive" when they used the word "murder" which is rarely used in a game sense when dealing with other players.
    rarely? since when? I need to recall the part I said the status of red named was murderers in old games? let the wording go, you give too much value to words, actions are what should be judged
    Must have been different games than I played.  Lineage1,  Lineage 2, Shadowbane, DAOC, EVE, WOW, always called them PKs, Reds, Gankers, but never murderers.


    ConstantineMerusMisterZebubHatefullIselinAlBQuirkyPhaserlight

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 846
    LOTRO "Kill Deeds," not only do you need to kill 80 of a certain mob, you then need to kill another 160 to finish the Deed. Mass murder to increase my VIRTUES, for the greater good!  :o

    And I won't even mention the thousands of "Free People" I've sent back to the rez circle after filling their bodies with my Black Arrow shafts....

    Good clean fun!

    Gut Out!
    ConstantineMerusSovrath

    What, me worry?

  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    edited June 19
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Lol people are always interesting. Never thought I would get reactions to a word like murder in a genre literally 90% of gameplay is killing.  
    Except you aren't killing just like playing Dodgeball isn't assault.


    yes you are not killing, but you say kill 10 rats, I killed that boss, and I need to kill 100 mobs till the next lvl

    again I ask how the hell you guys function on real world if a word is too hard?
    We function because we know it's a game, we know we aren't really "killing anything" and we are smart enough to pick up on someone's "ulterior motive" when they used the word "murder" which is rarely used in a game sense when dealing with other players.
    rarely? since when? I need to recall the part I said the status of red named was murderers in old games? let the wording go, you give too much value to words, actions are what should be judged
    Must have been different games than I played.  Lineage1,  Lineage 2, Shadowbane, DAOC, EVE, WOW, always called them PKs, Reds, Gankers, but never murderers.


    Ahem. In shadowbane we called em blue dots. Oh yeah and in Eve they usually called me and mine Fucking Bastards.... Usually after someone made a massive tactical blunder and didn't scout his route before trying to bring in a few million isk of ore. 
    ConstantineMerus

    "You have kept me at your beck and call for fifteen years. I shall never again do what you demand of me. By every rule of single combat, from this moment your life belongs to me. Is that not correct? Then I shall simply declare you dead. In all of your dealings with me, you'll do me the courtesy to conduct yourself as a dead man. I have submitted to your notions of honor long enough. You will now submit to mine."

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,944
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Lol people are always interesting. Never thought I would get reactions to a word like murder in a genre literally 90% of gameplay is killing.  
    Except you aren't killing just like playing Dodgeball isn't assault.


    yes you are not killing, but you say kill 10 rats, I killed that boss, and I need to kill 100 mobs till the next lvl

    again I ask how the hell you guys function on real world if a word is too hard?
    We function because we know it's a game, we know we aren't really "killing anything" and we are smart enough to pick up on someone's "ulterior motive" when they used the word "murder" which is rarely used in a game sense when dealing with other players.
    rarely? since when? I need to recall the part I said the status of red named was murderers in old games? let the wording go, you give too much value to words, actions are what should be judged
    Must have been different games than I played.  Lineage1,  Lineage 2, Shadowbane, DAOC, EVE, WOW, always called them PKs, Reds, Gankers, but never murderers.


    In UO they were called murder counts. 

    https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/player/the-murder-system/
    KyleranJeffSpicoli
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Lol people are always interesting. Never thought I would get reactions to a word like murder in a genre literally 90% of gameplay is killing.  
    Except you aren't killing just like playing Dodgeball isn't assault.


    yes you are not killing, but you say kill 10 rats, I killed that boss, and I need to kill 100 mobs till the next lvl

    again I ask how the hell you guys function on real world if a word is too hard?
    We function because we know it's a game, we know we aren't really "killing anything" and we are smart enough to pick up on someone's "ulterior motive" when they used the word "murder" which is rarely used in a game sense when dealing with other players.
    rarely? since when? I need to recall the part I said the status of red named was murderers in old games? let the wording go, you give too much value to words, actions are what should be judged
    Must have been different games than I played.  Lineage1,  Lineage 2, Shadowbane, DAOC, EVE, WOW, always called them PKs, Reds, Gankers, but never murderers.


    In UO they were called murder counts. 

    https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/player/the-murder-system/

    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,298
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Lol people are always interesting. Never thought I would get reactions to a word like murder in a genre literally 90% of gameplay is killing.  
    Except you aren't killing just like playing Dodgeball isn't assault.


    yes you are not killing, but you say kill 10 rats, I killed that boss, and I need to kill 100 mobs till the next lvl

    again I ask how the hell you guys function on real world if a word is too hard?
    We function because we know it's a game, we know we aren't really "killing anything" and we are smart enough to pick up on someone's "ulterior motive" when they used the word "murder" which is rarely used in a game sense when dealing with other players.
    rarely? since when? I need to recall the part I said the status of red named was murderers in old games? let the wording go, you give too much value to words, actions are what should be judged
    Actions? It's a game. It's ok for other players to "kill" other players. If it's part of the game then it's part of the fun.

    The only things is whether or not there is a sense of meaning, a reason. If I'm taking you out because we have a clan war then that's part of the fun. If I'm taking you out because you won't move out of a leveling spot then that's part of the fun. And vice versa. Now, in truth, I tend not to take people out if they are leveling in an area but I do love clan wars.

    People should not play games that have this type of pvp if they have issues with it. Not sure how many times this needs to be said. It's as if they just make excuses and expect other people to leave them alone "because."


    ConstantineMerusScorchien



  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,944
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Lol people are always interesting. Never thought I would get reactions to a word like murder in a genre literally 90% of gameplay is killing.  
    Except you aren't killing just like playing Dodgeball isn't assault.


    yes you are not killing, but you say kill 10 rats, I killed that boss, and I need to kill 100 mobs till the next lvl

    again I ask how the hell you guys function on real world if a word is too hard?
    We function because we know it's a game, we know we aren't really "killing anything" and we are smart enough to pick up on someone's "ulterior motive" when they used the word "murder" which is rarely used in a game sense when dealing with other players.
    rarely? since when? I need to recall the part I said the status of red named was murderers in old games? let the wording go, you give too much value to words, actions are what should be judged
    Actions? It's a game. It's ok for other players to "kill" other players. If it's part of the game then it's part of the fun.

    The only things is whether or not there is a sense of meaning, a reason. If I'm taking you out because we have a clan war then that's part of the fun. If I'm taking you out because you won't move out of a leveling spot then that's part of the fun. And vice versa. Now, in truth, I tend not to take people out if they are leveling in an area but I do love clan wars.

    People should not play games that have this type of pvp if they have issues with it. Not sure how many times this needs to be said. It's as if they just make excuses and expect other people to leave them alone "because."


    This is one reason society is so jacked up.  Meaning means nothing.  Feelings are everything. When you can be swayed by feelings more than meaning it is a lost cause.  At what point do you accept and understand the subject at hand have a debate about the subject vs. talking about how you feel about a word. 

    It has been a word used since 1997 as far as I can remember. Do you want to build a time machine and go back and tell them it triggers you?

    Or are you just going on because you have nothing better to do?  Eh.
    Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,324
    Vermillion_Raventhal

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,298
    edited June 19



    This is one reason society is so jacked up.  Meaning means nothing.  Feelings are everything. When you can be swayed by feelings more than meaning it is a lost cause.  At what point do you accept and understand the subject at hand have a debate about the subject vs. talking about how you feel about a word. 

    It has been a word used since 1997 as far as I can remember. Do you want to build a time machine and go back and tell them it triggers you?

    Or are you just going on because you have nothing better to do?  Eh.
    lol doens't "trigger" me at all. I'm not upset, perturbed or bothered.

    But I suppose besides being a composer I'm a writer and I make note of language and how it's used. I think it's overkill (no pun intended but amused nevertheless ). Great for you sharing the blog but you will note that most games don't used the word as it's just not quite right.

    But if it makes you feel any better, If I find you in game and kill your character I will use the word murder. You can do the same to me.  B)
    Post edited by Sovrath on



  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,944
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Lol people are always interesting. Never thought I would get reactions to a word like murder in a genre literally 90% of gameplay is killing.  
    Except you aren't killing just like playing Dodgeball isn't assault.


    yes you are not killing, but you say kill 10 rats, I killed that boss, and I need to kill 100 mobs till the next lvl

    again I ask how the hell you guys function on real world if a word is too hard?
    We function because we know it's a game, we know we aren't really "killing anything" and we are smart enough to pick up on someone's "ulterior motive" when they used the word "murder" which is rarely used in a game sense when dealing with other players.
    rarely? since when? I need to recall the part I said the status of red named was murderers in old games? let the wording go, you give too much value to words, actions are what should be judged
    Actions? It's a game. It's ok for other players to "kill" other players. If it's part of the game then it's part of the fun.

    The only things is whether or not there is a sense of meaning, a reason. If I'm taking you out because we have a clan war then that's part of the fun. If I'm taking you out because you won't move out of a leveling spot then that's part of the fun. And vice versa. Now, in truth, I tend not to take people out if they are leveling in an area but I do love clan wars.

    People should not play games that have this type of pvp if they have issues with it. Not sure how many times this needs to be said. It's as if they just make excuses and expect other people to leave them alone "because."


    This is one reason society is so jacked up.  Meaning means nothing.  Feelings are everything. When you can be swayed by feelings more than meaning it is a lost cause.  At what point do you accept and understand the subject at hand have a debate about the subject vs. talking about how you feel about a word. 

    It has been a word used since 1997 as far as I can remember. Do you want to build a time machine and go back and tell them it triggers you?

    Or are you just going on because you have nothing better to do?  Eh.
    lol doens't "trigger" me at all. I'm not upset, perturbed or bothered.

    But I suppose besides being a composer I'm a writer and I make note of language and how it's used. I think it's overkill (no pun intended but amused nevertheless ). Great for you sharing the blog but you will note that most games don't used the word as it's just not quite right.

    But if it makes you feel any better, If I find you in game and kill your character I will use the word murder. You can do the same to me.  B)
    If I had said have players killed another player you would have had a post littered with people posting about RvR.  Not sure what other word I was to use.  It is what I was brought into the genre basically on until PK became popular.  
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,298
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Lol people are always interesting. Never thought I would get reactions to a word like murder in a genre literally 90% of gameplay is killing.  
    Except you aren't killing just like playing Dodgeball isn't assault.


    yes you are not killing, but you say kill 10 rats, I killed that boss, and I need to kill 100 mobs till the next lvl

    again I ask how the hell you guys function on real world if a word is too hard?
    We function because we know it's a game, we know we aren't really "killing anything" and we are smart enough to pick up on someone's "ulterior motive" when they used the word "murder" which is rarely used in a game sense when dealing with other players.
    rarely? since when? I need to recall the part I said the status of red named was murderers in old games? let the wording go, you give too much value to words, actions are what should be judged
    Actions? It's a game. It's ok for other players to "kill" other players. If it's part of the game then it's part of the fun.

    The only things is whether or not there is a sense of meaning, a reason. If I'm taking you out because we have a clan war then that's part of the fun. If I'm taking you out because you won't move out of a leveling spot then that's part of the fun. And vice versa. Now, in truth, I tend not to take people out if they are leveling in an area but I do love clan wars.

    People should not play games that have this type of pvp if they have issues with it. Not sure how many times this needs to be said. It's as if they just make excuses and expect other people to leave them alone "because."


    This is one reason society is so jacked up.  Meaning means nothing.  Feelings are everything. When you can be swayed by feelings more than meaning it is a lost cause.  At what point do you accept and understand the subject at hand have a debate about the subject vs. talking about how you feel about a word. 

    It has been a word used since 1997 as far as I can remember. Do you want to build a time machine and go back and tell them it triggers you?

    Or are you just going on because you have nothing better to do?  Eh.
    lol doens't "trigger" me at all. I'm not upset, perturbed or bothered.

    But I suppose besides being a composer I'm a writer and I make note of language and how it's used. I think it's overkill (no pun intended but amused nevertheless ). Great for you sharing the blog but you will note that most games don't used the word as it's just not quite right.

    But if it makes you feel any better, If I find you in game and kill your character I will use the word murder. You can do the same to me.  B)
    If I had said have players killed another player you would have had a post littered with people posting about RvR.  Not sure what other word I was to use.  It is what I was brought into the genre basically on until PK became popular.  
    I bet pk became popular because, from a marketing perspective, "murder" seemed a bit much.



  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,944
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Lol people are always interesting. Never thought I would get reactions to a word like murder in a genre literally 90% of gameplay is killing.  
    Except you aren't killing just like playing Dodgeball isn't assault.


    yes you are not killing, but you say kill 10 rats, I killed that boss, and I need to kill 100 mobs till the next lvl

    again I ask how the hell you guys function on real world if a word is too hard?
    We function because we know it's a game, we know we aren't really "killing anything" and we are smart enough to pick up on someone's "ulterior motive" when they used the word "murder" which is rarely used in a game sense when dealing with other players.
    rarely? since when? I need to recall the part I said the status of red named was murderers in old games? let the wording go, you give too much value to words, actions are what should be judged
    Actions? It's a game. It's ok for other players to "kill" other players. If it's part of the game then it's part of the fun.

    The only things is whether or not there is a sense of meaning, a reason. If I'm taking you out because we have a clan war then that's part of the fun. If I'm taking you out because you won't move out of a leveling spot then that's part of the fun. And vice versa. Now, in truth, I tend not to take people out if they are leveling in an area but I do love clan wars.

    People should not play games that have this type of pvp if they have issues with it. Not sure how many times this needs to be said. It's as if they just make excuses and expect other people to leave them alone "because."


    This is one reason society is so jacked up.  Meaning means nothing.  Feelings are everything. When you can be swayed by feelings more than meaning it is a lost cause.  At what point do you accept and understand the subject at hand have a debate about the subject vs. talking about how you feel about a word. 

    It has been a word used since 1997 as far as I can remember. Do you want to build a time machine and go back and tell them it triggers you?

    Or are you just going on because you have nothing better to do?  Eh.
    lol doens't "trigger" me at all. I'm not upset, perturbed or bothered.

    But I suppose besides being a composer I'm a writer and I make note of language and how it's used. I think it's overkill (no pun intended but amused nevertheless ). Great for you sharing the blog but you will note that most games don't used the word as it's just not quite right.

    But if it makes you feel any better, If I find you in game and kill your character I will use the word murder. You can do the same to me.  B)
    If I had said have players killed another player you would have had a post littered with people posting about RvR.  Not sure what other word I was to use.  It is what I was brought into the genre basically on until PK became popular.  
    I bet pk became popular because, from a marketing perspective, "murder" seemed a bit much.
    Pk wasn't marketed at all.  Player killer was a negative marketing device. Hence EQ was PvP free outside of the odd book thing that made you unable to interact properly with other. PvP servers were made later I believe.  
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,057
    It was definitely called murder in UO.
    To my knowledge, the only game to have the balls to:
    1) call it the name it deserves.
    2) realize people don't want to be forced to be prey for psychos and added PvE lands after release.
    AmatheVermillion_RaventhalAlBQuirky
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,969
    Vermillion_Raventhal said:

     Hence EQ was PvP free outside of the odd book thing that made you unable to interact properly with other. PvP servers were made later I believe.  
    The Priest of Discord and his book were the most F'd up thing in the game. First, they put him in the newbie area, so when you meet him you don't know what the Hell you are doing. Second, you don't realize you are setting yourself up to be an ungrouped pariah in a game oriented to grouping. Third, the people who enjoy PvP are on PvP servers, so if you do this on a PvE server you will be alone most of the time. And finally, it is permanent with no way I ever knew to undo it. So you just permagimped yourself and will need to reroll. 

    But that's EQ. You could make mistakes and pay heavy consequences. Keeps you on your toes.
    AlBQuirky

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 846
    We're all just a bunch of filthy animals when the electricity goes out anyway... What wouldn't we do to feed our family?

    Happy thoughts brought to you by...

    Gut Out!
    AmatheAlBQuirky

    What, me worry?

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,298
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Lol people are always interesting. Never thought I would get reactions to a word like murder in a genre literally 90% of gameplay is killing.  
    Except you aren't killing just like playing Dodgeball isn't assault.


    yes you are not killing, but you say kill 10 rats, I killed that boss, and I need to kill 100 mobs till the next lvl

    again I ask how the hell you guys function on real world if a word is too hard?
    We function because we know it's a game, we know we aren't really "killing anything" and we are smart enough to pick up on someone's "ulterior motive" when they used the word "murder" which is rarely used in a game sense when dealing with other players.
    rarely? since when? I need to recall the part I said the status of red named was murderers in old games? let the wording go, you give too much value to words, actions are what should be judged
    Actions? It's a game. It's ok for other players to "kill" other players. If it's part of the game then it's part of the fun.

    The only things is whether or not there is a sense of meaning, a reason. If I'm taking you out because we have a clan war then that's part of the fun. If I'm taking you out because you won't move out of a leveling spot then that's part of the fun. And vice versa. Now, in truth, I tend not to take people out if they are leveling in an area but I do love clan wars.

    People should not play games that have this type of pvp if they have issues with it. Not sure how many times this needs to be said. It's as if they just make excuses and expect other people to leave them alone "because."


    This is one reason society is so jacked up.  Meaning means nothing.  Feelings are everything. When you can be swayed by feelings more than meaning it is a lost cause.  At what point do you accept and understand the subject at hand have a debate about the subject vs. talking about how you feel about a word. 

    It has been a word used since 1997 as far as I can remember. Do you want to build a time machine and go back and tell them it triggers you?

    Or are you just going on because you have nothing better to do?  Eh.
    lol doens't "trigger" me at all. I'm not upset, perturbed or bothered.

    But I suppose besides being a composer I'm a writer and I make note of language and how it's used. I think it's overkill (no pun intended but amused nevertheless ). Great for you sharing the blog but you will note that most games don't used the word as it's just not quite right.

    But if it makes you feel any better, If I find you in game and kill your character I will use the word murder. You can do the same to me.  B)
    If I had said have players killed another player you would have had a post littered with people posting about RvR.  Not sure what other word I was to use.  It is what I was brought into the genre basically on until PK became popular.  
    I bet pk became popular because, from a marketing perspective, "murder" seemed a bit much.
    Pk wasn't marketed at all.  Player killer was a negative marketing device. Hence EQ was PvP free outside of the odd book thing that made you unable to interact properly with other. PvP servers were made later I believe.  
    No what I mean is that the use of the word "murder" in subsequent games doesn't seem to be a thing and probably because of marketing. Not that it was a "marketed" feature. 



  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,324
    edited June 19
    It was definitely called murder in UO.
    To my knowledge, the only game to have the balls to:
    1) call it the name it deserves.
    2) realize people don't want to be forced to be prey for psychos and added PvE lands after release.
    Interestingly enough the Trammel change came after Raph moved off of UO and one he still doesn't quite agree with.

    While it doubled sub numbers, he still believes the consequences may have been too great in terms of player freedom. 

    His closing quote from the linked article sums his feelings quite well.

    "By giving up on solving the hard problem of freedom co-existing with civility, I fear that the result is that on today’s Internet, we have neither."

    As an EVE player I can sympathize with his viewpoint.
    AmathebcbullyAlBQuirky

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,057
    edited June 19
    Kyleran said:
    It was definitely called murder in UO.
    To my knowledge, the only game to have the balls to:
    1) call it the name it deserves.
    2) realize people don't want to be forced to be prey for psychos and added PvE lands after release.
    Interestingly enough the Trammel change came after Raph moved off of UO and one he still doesn't quite agree with.

    While it doubled sub numbers, he still believes the consequences may have been too great in terms of player freedom. 

    His closing quote from the linked article sums his feelings quite well.

    "By giving up on solving the hard problem of freedom co-existing with civility, I fear that the result is that on today’s Internet, we have neither."

    As an EVE player I can sympathize with his viewpoint.
    Once you left the boat, seeing it sink doesn't affect you too much.
    I remind you it's the same guy who made PvP totally optional in Star Wars Galaxies.

    If we are talking about the same interview I know, I think you may have misinterpreted it.
    Phry
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,944
    Kyleran said:
    It was definitely called murder in UO.
    To my knowledge, the only game to have the balls to:
    1) call it the name it deserves.
    2) realize people don't want to be forced to be prey for psychos and added PvE lands after release.
    Interestingly enough the Trammel change came after Raph moved off of UO and one he still doesn't quite agree with.

    While it doubled sub numbers, he still believes the consequences may have been too great in terms of player freedom. 

    His closing quote from the linked article sums his feelings quite well.

    "By giving up on solving the hard problem of freedom co-existing with civility, I fear that the result is that on today’s Internet, we have neither."

    As an EVE player I can sympathize with his viewpoint.
    Once you left the boat, seeing it sink doesn't affect you too much.
    I remind you it's the same guy who made PvP totally optional in Star Wars Galaxies.

    If we are talking about the same interview I know, I think you may have misinterpreted it.
    Sometimes opinions change.  Ironically I literally debated with him about SWG flag system and how it was bad for PvP.  At least I think we helped him back off losing the ability to attack first.  

    Now I agree that PvP need to be policed which he seems to he backtracking on.  
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,324
    edited June 19
    Kyleran said:
    It was definitely called murder in UO.
    To my knowledge, the only game to have the balls to:
    1) call it the name it deserves.
    2) realize people don't want to be forced to be prey for psychos and added PvE lands after release.
    Interestingly enough the Trammel change came after Raph moved off of UO and one he still doesn't quite agree with.

    While it doubled sub numbers, he still believes the consequences may have been too great in terms of player freedom. 

    His closing quote from the linked article sums his feelings quite well.

    "By giving up on solving the hard problem of freedom co-existing with civility, I fear that the result is that on today’s Internet, we have neither."

    As an EVE player I can sympathize with his viewpoint.
    Once you left the boat, seeing it sink doesn't affect you too much.
    I remind you it's the same guy who made PvP totally optional in Star Wars Galaxies.

    If we are talking about the same interview I know, I think you may have misinterpreted it.
    Actually it happened while he still worked at Origin, and the story comes from a book he published, not an interview.

    Its linked a few posts up if you care to read it in context.  He details his two or three year struggle to manage behaviors while maintaining player freedom.

    Pretty hilarious how gamers managed to circumvent most of them and when EQ1 implemented a flagging system (which he thought unworkable at the time) the die was cast for Trammel and likely SWG.

    While making sense from a business view he still believes more effort should have been made which might have lead to more civility on the internet in general. 






    bcbully

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,057
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    It was definitely called murder in UO.
    To my knowledge, the only game to have the balls to:
    1) call it the name it deserves.
    2) realize people don't want to be forced to be prey for psychos and added PvE lands after release.
    Interestingly enough the Trammel change came after Raph moved off of UO and one he still doesn't quite agree with.

    While it doubled sub numbers, he still believes the consequences may have been too great in terms of player freedom. 

    His closing quote from the linked article sums his feelings quite well.

    "By giving up on solving the hard problem of freedom co-existing with civility, I fear that the result is that on today’s Internet, we have neither."

    As an EVE player I can sympathize with his viewpoint.
    Once you left the boat, seeing it sink doesn't affect you too much.
    I remind you it's the same guy who made PvP totally optional in Star Wars Galaxies.

    If we are talking about the same interview I know, I think you may have misinterpreted it.
    Actually it happened while he still worked at Origin, and the story comes from a book he published, not an interview.

    Its linked a few posts up if you care to read it in context.  He details his two or three year struggle to manage behaviors while maintaining player freedom.

    Pretty hilarious how gamers managed to circumvent most of them and when EQ1 implemented a flagging system (which he thought unworkable at the time) the die was cast for Trammel and likely SWG.

    While making sense from a business view he still believes more effort should have been made which might have lead to more civility on the internet in general. 






    He just realized, finally, that is is the only way to make it work...
    bcbully
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    edited June 19
    I think all sports need to be removed from school. There are many people who can't play soccer or basketball or football or any number of sports. This makes the "haves" and "have nots", and creates bullying and popularity contests.

    Someone forced to run can cause many issues, especially health wise. Like if have to run a mile or a marathon many people have asthma or any number of things that can make that a problem. Then they have to sit on the side and be bullied (laughed at) by the other kids.

    I think all athletic sports need to be removed from schools, and remove anything that creates popularity (again haves/have nots). This would help stop a lot of the bullying and make people be friends with more people. Its not a 100% solution but goes a lot of the way there.
    This level of stupidity also creates bullies. I was sitting here peacefully minding my business and after reading this, I felt the urge to pour a cafeteria sized milk onto someones head. 

    Maybe schools should ban the milk? Maybe ban keyboards? I dunno.  :D
    ScorchienKyleranbcbully
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • madazzmadazz Member RarePosts: 1,995
    In Ultima Online I did many times. I don't consider myself a PK'er though as it was more the "newness" of it all. But damn it was fun. Truth be told though, after a few I did feel pretty bad about it as some of them would message you with kind words basically telling me "Please don't I am just trying to have fun/craft/whatever". So... I became someone who hunted player killers (reds). I wasn't amazing at it by any means but boy did it fill my cup so to speak. Plus, the reds became red just so they could draw the attention of people such as myself. They were so good at PvP and I learned so much from them. Some were pieces of sh$! but many just wanted to PvP. 

    There was one guy I've brought up here and in other places that I just couldn't stand and even when he stopped trying to PK me I would not stop PKing him. Gary fucking Coleman. He had more money, a better home, a better stock of weapons/armour and much higher skills. He made the game so fun for me as I became determined to become max out several skills to 100. He was the neighbor to my standstone home. It was a small home and when he first moved into the neighborhood he would shoot fire through certain corners of the wall. This made me have to be on my toes as there was only a couple spots I could stand without him being able to hit me. Eventually I became 7x GM, earned a bunch of cash and made him my primary target. I was ruthless. I wouldn't let this guy be. I'd get him at bank, at home, anywhere! I would stealth into his home at any chance and whenever he forgot to lock something I took it. I'd find him in dungeons and gank him. I'd find him treasure hunting with friends and pick him off out of the group and *usually* get away. I didn't get rich off of him, but he became poor because of me. Eventually he quit. I think its the only time in an MMO I made someone quit because I wanted vengeance. The next closes instance of that happening was in SubSpace/Continuum and that was Raxman. He was a loud mouthed scrawny kid (he befriended one of my IRL friends and they chatted/exchanged pics and all that stuff). I would target him often in game because he did so to me early on. Eventually when he couldn't get me anymore he started making excuses and challenged me to a duel. So we did. He lost each match and I never saw him again after he was swearing and raging.



    So yeah, I ranted and went off topic a bit but it was a good trip down memory lane.
    KyleranJean-Luc_PicardAlBQuirkyVermillion_Raventhal
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