As long as raid gear isn't the best for PvP I don't care what gear they have. Give them +100 to slaying dragons or whatever but keep their dragon gear away from PvP/
Not practical really, as in most games the dragon operates the same way as a player character, difference being it has far more hit points and deals more dps.
The same attributes raid gear imparts to help a player (more str, power, speed, etc) kill a dragon also in general work against other players equally well.
He plays ESO like I do.
In ESO there is PvP gear that does more damage against specifically other players or buffs you if you're near a keep, etc. And there is also Raid gear that only does more damage against mobs in instanced dungeons or raids.
All the sets aren't like that and there are still annoyances (like wanting to use fpr PVP the 2-piece monster mask + shoulders sets that only drop in PvE instanced dungeons) but they've tried a bit more than most other games to make BIS gear more special purpose.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
As long as raid gear isn't the best for PvP I don't care what gear they have. Give them +100 to slaying dragons or whatever but keep their dragon gear away from PvP/
Not practical really, as in most games the dragon operates the same way as a player character, difference being it has far more hit points and deals more dps.
The same attributes raid gear imparts to help a player (more str, power, speed, etc) kill a dragon also in general work against other players equally well.
Stats that only apply bonuses when fighting NPCs or players could easily be added.
I think everyone should have the opportunity to get the best gear on the game from a variety of paths. Whether they actually do or not depends on if they're successful.
People "almost" always choose the path of least resistance. So I think all path should be "relatively similar" in difficulty.
My argument is raid is really difficult. So why should other people get raid equivalent gear. "Unless" it is difficult too.
Then make it really difficult just not only one way. Again look at istaria. A t6 grand hall requires millions of units. The game is about 16 years old and yes not many people play, but only a few people have made this Hall. It takes months to do this but you can still do it.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I haven't read everything... far too many replies.
... but I think with today's cash shop practices every MMO would be P2W if you could buy BIS/Raid gear from other players. Most games have a way to obtain in game currency if you pay more; WoW Tokens, paying for more retainers in FFXIV, Gems to Gold in GW2... etc.
I mean, those things are pretty P2W in the first place (I'm aware some people don't agree and I don't want to debate that) but if you could use those to get the absolute best loot in the game there would be no arguing about whether it was P2W or not.
Bind on account unless it is mats, as discussed earlier. It is a tricky one the mats might need to be traded with crafters who could make the gear, which in turn could lead to the P2W you describe.
In all fairness MMORPGs were quite new back then, most players (nor the developers really) didn't realize what douches their fellow gamers could be.
A normal person wouldn't realize they have to beware of everything, after all, it's just a game, right?
That's because the ratio and intensity weren't at the same level then it is now.
I distinctly remember having "RL picture" threads back when I was surfing a CoH forum waiting for it to release. People weren't doxed or turned into grotesque and demeaning memes. I don't recall ever seeing the term dox, much less hear about folks doxing one another. Folks planned regional get-togethers with these complete strangers they only knew through a username and photo (if posted in the aforementioned picture thread).
People were literally different on the internet back then. Then everybody started realizing how anonymous they could be, and how lawless (generally speaking) the internet is/was (specifically prior to the 2010s).
Always have been jack asses online. Always.
I do think people were more social in general though good and bad. Community was slower moving so you could learn a name and maybe see them again. Being able or willing to talk you also met the cool people more often.
Butterflies don't stay long, one of the things I mentioned on here earlier was that solo questing does not even hold people until top level. Which was why I questioned some sort of solo top level super quests retaining people at top level. But when you think about it, what will hold players even to top level, never mind the end game we talked about?
I would talk about the likes of RvR here, which I think could help with that, but the truth is that the majority of the player base is now butterflies who want to flit to the next game after only a month of play. You are never going to be able to keep players like that, which has had a hugely damaging impact on the community feeling of MMOs
In all fairness MMORPGs were quite new back then, most players (nor the developers really) didn't realize what douches their fellow gamers could be.
A normal person wouldn't realize they have to beware of everything, after all, it's just a game, right?
That's because the ratio and intensity weren't at the same level then it is now.
I distinctly remember having "RL picture" threads back when I was surfing a CoH forum waiting for it to release. People weren't doxed or turned into grotesque and demeaning memes. I don't recall ever seeing the term dox, much less hear about folks doxing one another. Folks planned regional get-togethers with these complete strangers they only knew through a username and photo (if posted in the aforementioned picture thread).
People were literally different on the internet back then. Then everybody started realizing how anonymous they could be, and how lawless (generally speaking) the internet is/was (specifically prior to the 2010s).
Always have been jack asses online. Always.
I do think people were more social in general though good and bad. Community was slower moving so you could learn a name and maybe see them again. Being able or willing to talk you also met the cool people more often.
Butterflies don't stay long, one of the things I mentioned on here earlier was that solo questing does not even hold people until top level. Which was why I questioned some sort of solo top level super quests retaining people at top level. But when you think about it, what will hold players even to top level, never mind the end game we talked about?
I would talk about the likes of RvR here, which I think could help with that, but the truth is that the majority of the player base is now butterflies who want to flit to the next game after only a month of play. You are never going to be able to keep players like that, which has had a hugely damaging impact on the community feeling of MMOs
The point of raid drops is that its far from a guarantee and it makes people show up so you can do a place more than once. Given that progression raiding can cause fatigue lots of people also enjoy switching between progression and more casual loot raids.
When it comes to drops, it took me six months to get a huge weapon upgrade in vanilla, I remember all the stuff about sulfuras and thunderfury that our group got. Back then loot actually meant something and people were happy about others getting cool stuff. That changed, in wotlk you basically entered raids with a shopping list of things you wanted and every week you get 3-4 epics. With epics being so common it killed the sense of reward of getting those items.
The reason its unique is because people will go for the path of lowest resistance and it would diminish the "value" of said items.
That just reminded me of a new achievement coming out in Rise of Azshara. "I thought you said they were rare" For rare mobs, but relevant. So you know even the devs themselves realise what they are doing.
In all fairness MMORPGs were quite new back then, most players (nor the developers really) didn't realize what douches their fellow gamers could be.
A normal person wouldn't realize they have to beware of everything, after all, it's just a game, right?
That's because the ratio and intensity weren't at the same level then it is now.
I distinctly remember having "RL picture" threads back when I was surfing a CoH forum waiting for it to release. People weren't doxed or turned into grotesque and demeaning memes. I don't recall ever seeing the term dox, much less hear about folks doxing one another. Folks planned regional get-togethers with these complete strangers they only knew through a username and photo (if posted in the aforementioned picture thread).
People were literally different on the internet back then. Then everybody started realizing how anonymous they could be, and how lawless (generally speaking) the internet is/was (specifically prior to the 2010s).
Always have been jack asses online. Always.
I do think people were more social in general though good and bad. Community was slower moving so you could learn a name and maybe see them again. Being able or willing to talk you also met the cool people more often.
Butterflies don't stay long, one of the things I mentioned on here earlier was that solo questing does not even hold people until top level. Which was why I questioned some sort of solo top level super quests retaining people at top level. But when you think about it, what will hold players even to top level, never mind the end game we talked about?
I would talk about the likes of RvR here, which I think could help with that, but the truth is that the majority of the player base is now butterflies who want to flit to the next game after only a month of play. You are never going to be able to keep players like that, which has had a hugely damaging impact on the community feeling of MMOs
Butterflies? LOL.. no.. those kinds of players were called Content Loctus.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
In all fairness MMORPGs were quite new back then, most players (nor the developers really) didn't realize what douches their fellow gamers could be.
A normal person wouldn't realize they have to beware of everything, after all, it's just a game, right?
That's because the ratio and intensity weren't at the same level then it is now.
I distinctly remember having "RL picture" threads back when I was surfing a CoH forum waiting for it to release. People weren't doxed or turned into grotesque and demeaning memes. I don't recall ever seeing the term dox, much less hear about folks doxing one another. Folks planned regional get-togethers with these complete strangers they only knew through a username and photo (if posted in the aforementioned picture thread).
People were literally different on the internet back then. Then everybody started realizing how anonymous they could be, and how lawless (generally speaking) the internet is/was (specifically prior to the 2010s).
Always have been jack asses online. Always.
I do think people were more social in general though good and bad. Community was slower moving so you could learn a name and maybe see them again. Being able or willing to talk you also met the cool people more often.
Butterflies don't stay long, one of the things I mentioned on here earlier was that solo questing does not even hold people until top level. Which was why I questioned some sort of solo top level super quests retaining people at top level. But when you think about it, what will hold players even to top level, never mind the end game we talked about?
I would talk about the likes of RvR here, which I think could help with that, but the truth is that the majority of the player base is now butterflies who want to flit to the next game after only a month of play. You are never going to be able to keep players like that, which has had a hugely damaging impact on the community feeling of MMOs
Butterflies? LOL.. no.. those kinds of players were called Content Loctus.
In all fairness MMORPGs were quite new back then, most players (nor the developers really) didn't realize what douches their fellow gamers could be.
A normal person wouldn't realize they have to beware of everything, after all, it's just a game, right?
That's because the ratio and intensity weren't at the same level then it is now.
I distinctly remember having "RL picture" threads back when I was surfing a CoH forum waiting for it to release. People weren't doxed or turned into grotesque and demeaning memes. I don't recall ever seeing the term dox, much less hear about folks doxing one another. Folks planned regional get-togethers with these complete strangers they only knew through a username and photo (if posted in the aforementioned picture thread).
People were literally different on the internet back then. Then everybody started realizing how anonymous they could be, and how lawless (generally speaking) the internet is/was (specifically prior to the 2010s).
Always have been jack asses online. Always.
I do think people were more social in general though good and bad. Community was slower moving so you could learn a name and maybe see them again. Being able or willing to talk you also met the cool people more often.
Butterflies don't stay long, one of the things I mentioned on here earlier was that solo questing does not even hold people until top level. Which was why I questioned some sort of solo top level super quests retaining people at top level. But when you think about it, what will hold players even to top level, never mind the end game we talked about?
I would talk about the likes of RvR here, which I think could help with that, but the truth is that the majority of the player base is now butterflies who want to flit to the next game after only a month of play. You are never going to be able to keep players like that, which has had a hugely damaging impact on the community feeling of MMOs
Butterflies? LOL.. no.. those kinds of players were called Content Loctus.
Now we got names for every player?
It's not a new Term, been around for a long time to describe players that hop into a game, grind the content, and move on.. like Loctus.
They are also the massive legions that Return for Expansions, grind the Expansion Content and then Move off Just as Fast.. again.. like Locus.
On the flip side of that, Social Butterflies, as it were, stay in games due to community, and often will stay with a game long after the game itself ceases to be fun for them simply for the social interaction and to play with in-game friends.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
In all fairness MMORPGs were quite new back then, most players (nor the developers really) didn't realize what douches their fellow gamers could be.
A normal person wouldn't realize they have to beware of everything, after all, it's just a game, right?
That's because the ratio and intensity weren't at the same level then it is now.
I distinctly remember having "RL picture" threads back when I was surfing a CoH forum waiting for it to release. People weren't doxed or turned into grotesque and demeaning memes. I don't recall ever seeing the term dox, much less hear about folks doxing one another. Folks planned regional get-togethers with these complete strangers they only knew through a username and photo (if posted in the aforementioned picture thread).
People were literally different on the internet back then. Then everybody started realizing how anonymous they could be, and how lawless (generally speaking) the internet is/was (specifically prior to the 2010s).
Always have been jack asses online. Always.
I do think people were more social in general though good and bad. Community was slower moving so you could learn a name and maybe see them again. Being able or willing to talk you also met the cool people more often.
Butterflies don't stay long, one of the things I mentioned on here earlier was that solo questing does not even hold people until top level. Which was why I questioned some sort of solo top level super quests retaining people at top level. But when you think about it, what will hold players even to top level, never mind the end game we talked about?
I would talk about the likes of RvR here, which I think could help with that, but the truth is that the majority of the player base is now butterflies who want to flit to the next game after only a month of play. You are never going to be able to keep players like that, which has had a hugely damaging impact on the community feeling of MMOs
Butterflies? LOL.. no.. those kinds of players were called Content Loctus.
Now we got names for every player?
It's not a new Term, been around for a long time to describe players that hop into a game, grind the content, and move on.. like Loctus.
They are also the massive legions that Return for Expansions, grind the Expansion Content and then Move off Just as Fast.. again.. like Locus.
On the flip side of that, Social Butterflies, as it were, stay in games due to community, and often will stay with a game long after the game itself ceases to be fun for them simply for the social interaction and to play with in-game friends.
To me locusts eat up the content and go, butterflies don't even get to the end of the content. But they may come back again and flit away once more. I think that is the standard definition?
You may also have noted that the main problem for MMORPG's was once the locust, now I would say it is butterflies, gaming has become a ten minute activity fitted in between Twitter and You tube.
I do recognise the social butterflies idea, some of our best guildies are those.
In all fairness MMORPGs were quite new back then, most players (nor the developers really) didn't realize what douches their fellow gamers could be.
A normal person wouldn't realize they have to beware of everything, after all, it's just a game, right?
That's because the ratio and intensity weren't at the same level then it is now.
I distinctly remember having "RL picture" threads back when I was surfing a CoH forum waiting for it to release. People weren't doxed or turned into grotesque and demeaning memes. I don't recall ever seeing the term dox, much less hear about folks doxing one another. Folks planned regional get-togethers with these complete strangers they only knew through a username and photo (if posted in the aforementioned picture thread).
People were literally different on the internet back then. Then everybody started realizing how anonymous they could be, and how lawless (generally speaking) the internet is/was (specifically prior to the 2010s).
Always have been jack asses online. Always.
I do think people were more social in general though good and bad. Community was slower moving so you could learn a name and maybe see them again. Being able or willing to talk you also met the cool people more often.
Butterflies don't stay long, one of the things I mentioned on here earlier was that solo questing does not even hold people until top level. Which was why I questioned some sort of solo top level super quests retaining people at top level. But when you think about it, what will hold players even to top level, never mind the end game we talked about?
I would talk about the likes of RvR here, which I think could help with that, but the truth is that the majority of the player base is now butterflies who want to flit to the next game after only a month of play. You are never going to be able to keep players like that, which has had a hugely damaging impact on the community feeling of MMOs
Butterflies? LOL.. no.. those kinds of players were called Content Loctus.
Now we got names for every player?
It's not a new Term, been around for a long time to describe players that hop into a game, grind the content, and move on.. like Loctus.
They are also the massive legions that Return for Expansions, grind the Expansion Content and then Move off Just as Fast.. again.. like Locus.
On the flip side of that, Social Butterflies, as it were, stay in games due to community, and often will stay with a game long after the game itself ceases to be fun for them simply for the social interaction and to play with in-game friends.
To me locusts eat up the content and go, butterflies don't even get to the end of the content. But they may come back again and flit away once more. I think that is the standard definition?
You may also have noted that the main problem for MMORPG's was once the locust, now I would say it is butterflies, gaming has become a ten minute activity fitted in between Twitter and You tube.
I do recognise the social butterflies idea, some of our best guildies are those.
The Social Butterfly, or Socialite Player, is simply a player that values the community, friends, guild, etc, as the most important aspect of the game. That is their core point.
With that said, How far along these players get in any game or what entices them depends more on their social group than anything else. If the social network they are in decides they want to raid, These players will raid like hard core mutherfukkas, read up all they can, help ever damn single guildie get raid ready, and all that stuff that leaves the vast majority of us wondering how they even do that, simply because they want to share the game with their social network. If their social network is chillax and all about role play or who has the best color dye for their foppy pants, they will do that and own that shit like a mutherfukka as well.
These players have never been a problem in a game, they are often the ones that spend the most time building in-game communities and making the game a welcoming place for new players, older players, and returning players.
Even in the modern MMO landscape, since their focus is on social, they are not looking for the 5 min jump around and easy fast rewards, as that is not what moves them. They are fine with logging in for a few hours, just to chat with friends, talk about life and what you have and not get a damn thing done in game, they also tend to spend freely and buy gifts for their social network. So they are very profitable for Cash Shop MMO's.
However, there is no direct playstyle for these players, the only common factor, is they are about community first, as such, the largest downside to the Social Butterfly is if their social network (or at least the people they care the most about) moves on, they will join them without hesitation or a second glance back.
If anything, off site, or 3rd party systems (like Discord for example) have had the largest effect on this demographic, as they no longer need to log into a game to chat with their friends on-line, they simply boot up Discord and chat away, talk about life, games, what have you, all with a "Gamer/MMO" backdrop they feel comfortable with, so they are far less likely to put up with a game they are not having fun in then they had been in the past.
Content Loctus, have always been a problem with games, for the same reasons in the past as today, they arrive, consume and move on, often spending as little as possible in the process, but with today's social platforms they tend to cry and whine more about the lack of content.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Content Loctus, have always been a problem with games, for the same reasons in the past as today, they arrive, consume and move on, often spending as little as possible in the process, but with today's social platforms they tend to cry and whine more about the lack of content.
Why do you keep misspelling locust to loctus? You need to slow them fingers down a bit lol.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Content Loctus, have always been a problem with games, for the same reasons in the past as today, they arrive, consume and move on, often spending as little as possible in the process, but with today's social platforms they tend to cry and whine more about the lack of content.
Why do you keep misspelling locust to loctus? You need to slow them fingers down a bit lol.
Spell Checker.. birch to them.. the Ducking Cucumber.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I dont' always raid. The thing with raiding is you need to spend an enormous amount of time to get gear "which will be replaced by a 5 minutes quest in the next expansion".
So many times I just shrug and put my focus on making new alt.
And people's comment is "developer put so much focus on making raid!". My reply is developer only make a few(some times even 1 raid per expansion)... That is not putting much focus on raiding.
I dont' always raid. The thing with raiding is you need to spend an enormous amount of time to get gear "which will be replaced by a 5 minutes quest in the next expansion".
So many times I just shrug and put my focus on making new alt.
And people's comment is "developer put so much focus on making raid!". My reply is developer only make a few(some times even 1 raid per expansion)... That is not putting much focus on raiding.
Posters on this thread are telling us there is not enough content/variety in raids and we are also told the developers are spending too much time on designing raids. Which is it, it cannot be both?
Some of the new indie MMOs are trying a different approach CF is very PvP orientated, but will that be a solution, well not for PvE players who want PvE? If we get new types of MMOs, they will not please us all that's for sure.
I dont' always raid. The thing with raiding is you need to spend an enormous amount of time to get gear "which will be replaced by a 5 minutes quest in the next expansion".
So many times I just shrug and put my focus on making new alt.
And people's comment is "developer put so much focus on making raid!". My reply is developer only make a few(some times even 1 raid per expansion)... That is not putting much focus on raiding.
Posters on this thread are telling us there is not enough content/variety in raids and we are also told the developers are spending too much time on designing raids. Which is it, it cannot be both?
Some of the new indie MMOs are trying a different approach CF is very PvP orientated, but will that be a solution, well not for PvE players who want PvE? If we get new types of MMOs, they will not please us all that's for sure.
Or they focused the end game small amount of content that is not diverse.
Comments
In ESO there is PvP gear that does more damage against specifically other players or buffs you if you're near a keep, etc. And there is also Raid gear that only does more damage against mobs in instanced dungeons or raids.
All the sets aren't like that and there are still annoyances (like wanting to use fpr PVP the 2-piece monster mask + shoulders sets that only drop in PvE instanced dungeons) but they've tried a bit more than most other games to make BIS gear more special purpose.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
My argument is raid is really difficult. So why should other people get raid equivalent gear. "Unless" it is difficult too.
I would talk about the likes of RvR here, which I think could help with that, but the truth is that the majority of the player base is now butterflies who want to flit to the next game after only a month of play. You are never going to be able to keep players like that, which has had a hugely damaging impact on the community feeling of MMOs
"I thought you said they were rare" For rare mobs, but relevant. So you know even the devs themselves realise what they are doing.
RVR is every mmorpg is a disaster . ok not every Warhammer was ok rvr
They are also the massive legions that Return for Expansions, grind the Expansion Content and then Move off Just as Fast.. again.. like Locus.
On the flip side of that, Social Butterflies, as it were, stay in games due to community, and often will stay with a game long after the game itself ceases to be fun for them simply for the social interaction and to play with in-game friends.
You may also have noted that the main problem for MMORPG's was once the locust, now I would say it is butterflies, gaming has become a ten minute activity fitted in between Twitter and You tube.
I do recognise the social butterflies idea, some of our best guildies are those.
With that said, How far along these players get in any game or what entices them depends more on their social group than anything else. If the social network they are in decides they want to raid, These players will raid like hard core mutherfukkas, read up all they can, help ever damn single guildie get raid ready, and all that stuff that leaves the vast majority of us wondering how they even do that, simply because they want to share the game with their social network. If their social network is chillax and all about role play or who has the best color dye for their foppy pants, they will do that and own that shit like a mutherfukka as well.
These players have never been a problem in a game, they are often the ones that spend the most time building in-game communities and making the game a welcoming place for new players, older players, and returning players.
Even in the modern MMO landscape, since their focus is on social, they are not looking for the 5 min jump around and easy fast rewards, as that is not what moves them. They are fine with logging in for a few hours, just to chat with friends, talk about life and what you have and not get a damn thing done in game, they also tend to spend freely and buy gifts for their social network. So they are very profitable for Cash Shop MMO's.
However, there is no direct playstyle for these players, the only common factor, is they are about community first, as such, the largest downside to the Social Butterfly is if their social network (or at least the people they care the most about) moves on, they will join them without hesitation or a second glance back.
If anything, off site, or 3rd party systems (like Discord for example) have had the largest effect on this demographic, as they no longer need to log into a game to chat with their friends on-line, they simply boot up Discord and chat away, talk about life, games, what have you, all with a "Gamer/MMO" backdrop they feel comfortable with, so they are far less likely to put up with a game they are not having fun in then they had been in the past.
Content Loctus, have always been a problem with games, for the same reasons in the past as today, they arrive, consume and move on, often spending as little as possible in the process, but with today's social platforms they tend to cry and whine more about the lack of content.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Um.no. that doesn't solve the issue or even change it.
So many times I just shrug and put my focus on making new alt.
And people's comment is "developer put so much focus on making raid!". My reply is developer only make a few(some times even 1 raid per expansion)... That is not putting much focus on raiding.
Some of the new indie MMOs are trying a different approach CF is very PvP orientated, but will that be a solution, well not for PvE players who want PvE? If we get new types of MMOs, they will not please us all that's for sure.