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Are soft releases a good idea ?

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,640
To elaborate more allowing people to "publicly" play before it's time. 

I so no, worst thing a developer can do.  I've seen several kick starters fail completely because of this.  Most fail before release.

1)  It's in peoples nature to slander.
2)  It shows the mess with bugs and refinement.  Most people are not open to future change.
3)  It exposes core problems, and word spreads fast.
4) Uneven advantage of the game. 
5)  Uneven advancement on servers. 
6)  People simply don't come back.
7) Bad memories stick.

Good or bad game, it's besides the point !!!!



This post was inspired by Legends of Aria.....
The game is a hot steamy mess for EVERY reason above.  It had a promise of release on Steam for January, then April, then end of Spring but has yet to be released.  HOWEVER it can be openly purchased on their web site for months.

The public slander of the game is unbearable on Steam, yet it's not on Steam yet.... People will go out of the way to destroy a game, again it's in our nature. 

Is the game good "no",
I had a positive attitude for months, along with a great Guild.  I tricked myself into looking past all above. 
The end result ?...... I will never play this game again, I have a bad taste, even with an entire overhaul THE BAD FEELING WILL NEVER GO AWAY.  Good or bad is besides the point ! 

Never a soft release, of any game..... Just saying !
ScotGdemami

Comments

  • klash2defklash2def Member RarePosts: 1,454
    delete5230DMKanoFlyByKnight
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,441
    I remember when betas used to be the people chosen from scads of applicants to actually beta test the games rather than just play them and where your position in said game was in jeopardy if you didn't submit feedbacks and bug reports.

    Nowadays betas are called alphas and positions are for sale to the highest bidder. 

    ScotGdemamiOctagon7711
  • acidbloodacidblood Member RarePosts: 819
    I've never seen it work well... people form impressions very quickly, which then act as a filter for everything related, so even if the game officially launches in a 'good' state people with a 'bad' impression aren't likely to give it a proper second look. Which is not to say things can't be turned around, but you’re basically talking FFXIV ARR levels of continued effort.

    It's also much more favourable to launch with 'good' first impression... perfect example being WoW, which despite having 'bad' expansions for years has seen off many arguably better competitors and is only now finally dying (with its original 'good' self possibly being the final nail)
    Kyleran
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,539
    Nope. Look at the total clusterfuck that was Atlas.
    Kyleran

    "You can go to land of make believe and you can pretend
    But in the end you still have no friends"

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,351
    edited June 13
    The ability of the internet to give us part of a game and not the complete item is becoming toxic to gaming. But it is only part of the change in culture that has occurred moving us from gaming ethos to casino ethos. It has been a gradual change bad practice slowly becoming the industry norm.

    As was mentioned by Centkin, what was once a way games were tested pre-release has become a fund raiser and in some cases is a method for whales to establish dominance in game. We once saw fair play as hallmark of gaming, now it is just part of gaming history.
    GdemamiMendeljimmywolf

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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,608
    centkin said:
    I remember when betas used to be the people chosen from scads of applicants to actually beta test the games rather than just play them and where your position in said game was in jeopardy if you didn't submit feedbacks and bug reports. 

    ...that was never the case.

    Closed testing was always play-the-game-before-it-will-be-released and only tiny % of 'testers' were actually testing anything.

    Thus, it makes sense to monetize pre-release access.
    mmolou
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,996
    edited June 13
    Gdemami said:
    centkin said:
    I remember when betas used to be the people chosen from scads of applicants to actually beta test the games rather than just play them and where your position in said game was in jeopardy if you didn't submit feedbacks and bug reports. 

    ...that was never the case.

    Closed testing was always play-the-game-before-it-will-be-released and only tiny % of 'testers' were actually testing anything.

    Thus, it makes sense to monetize pre-release access.
    In the case of Star Citizen this has proven very true, gamers throw money at RI with every new bit of content released. 

    Other games not so much, but perhaps their lack of success in generating support is more from they aren't very good and not so much due to how rough they are in early release.

    Bless proved it's best (for devs, players not so much) to get all you can out of gamers in early access before they learn how bad it is post release.

    Gdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,996
    edited June 13
    Soft release / launch, early access, pre-alpha, head start, beta 4.5.9.1.4.6, Steam release etc. are all terms I am very weary of used by Devs trying to get me to buy their incomplete game.

    Tell me when you are no longer going to wipe progression, at that point the game is "launched" regardless of platform, and I will judge it accordingly.

    As mentioned by the OP, if the product is not of good content and quality at this point they will almost certainly lose me permanently as I never go back and give a bad game another try.

    All future content is an expansion, not a marketing release (CF weasel term), Steam launch or whatever BS term Devs come up with.
    MendelTheocritusScotGdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SpiiderSpiider Member RarePosts: 724
    A good game will survive and slander. A bad game will be a cashgrab if not shown to public before. Atlas.
    Octagon7711Gdemami

    No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,482
    edited June 13
    Soft release wont ruin a great game and it wont save a bad game - so it doesnt matter IMO.

    Also since OP is talking about negative posts on forums like steam - its libel (written) not slander (spoken).


    Post edited by DMKano on
    Gdemamijimmywolf
  • MontyBrewsterMontyBrewster Member EpicPosts: 2,681
    Are soft releases good ?  Since this is a Delete5230 post the only thing i have to say is


    They are better then soft shits..... What a mess this morning

    Gaming should be your therapy, Not your reason for seeking Therapy
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,067
    I have patience, I can wait.  In the case of games, I can easily wait until the development team finishes working on the product.  I have no reason to pay to see what they are doing at any early stage.  I'm only interested in the final product.  Only a final product has any chance to separate me from my money.



    KyleranAmathe

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,887
    I just wait for launch...If the company cant be bothered to get to that point, then they aren't getting any money from me.
    Kyleran
  • OldSchoolGamerOldSchoolGamer Member UncommonPosts: 223
    edited June 13
    In the 20+ years, I've only seen ONE game recover from a bad launch.  That was FFXIV.  In that same 20+ years, I've never seen a game fix it's obvious bugs from it's final beta before release.  In other words, "relax, it's only beta, they will fix it" is just a Tin Foil Hat Fan Boy line of b.s.

    Prime example, it only took Blizzard 10 years to fix the loot bug in mining ore in Elwynn Forest, ten years.  When it comes to bugs, devs will get to fixing them when they feel like it regardless if that is during beta, post launch or 10 years down the road.  This notion that devs can release bug free games is hog wash.
    Mendel
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,227
    No matter how many times a developer says "but we are still working on it," if screens, videos or streams of a game are put out showing problems, people tend to take that at face value and possibly not purchase at release. My two cents anyway.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,183
    I think allowing people to play early isnt a problem.
    You just need to wipe it before official release so everyone starts out on the same foot.
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,218
    I'm a programmer, I can take bugs *shrug*

    As I proved by playing Vanguard through most of the time it was up.
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,756
    edited June 14
    Spiider said:
    A good game will survive and slander. A bad game will be a cashgrab if not shown to public before. Atlas.
    I've played more then a few games that started off very bad but did end up getting their act together.  I usually  revisit games I think I would like from time to time to see how much has changed for the better.  Watchdogs was pretty bad at launch but to this day they still do fixes on it and it plays the way it should have from the start.

    I also don't see early progression as a problem because it's a norm in games.  Players are continually starting to play a game at different times.  No matter what they do there will be players who start playing a game sometimes years after it's release.  So early start is no big deal to me.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,651
    OP I think you meant to put your topic in the pub or general gaming. 
    MontyBrewster
  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,441
    edited June 14
    Gdemami said:
    centkin said:
    I remember when betas used to be the people chosen from scads of applicants to actually beta test the games rather than just play them and where your position in said game was in jeopardy if you didn't submit feedbacks and bug reports. 

    ...that was never the case.

    Closed testing was always play-the-game-before-it-will-be-released and only tiny % of 'testers' were actually testing anything.

    Thus, it makes sense to monetize pre-release access.


    If you are in the beta where the server is only up on weekends and the devs aren't around much then you are not in the actual beta.  A lot of games ran things that way -- they had a couple of tiers of beta access.  If the server is up 24/7 except for maints and the devs are around and kidding around with the beta players as well as providing things they want tested etc. then you are in the "real" beta. 

    I remember Wawker Thestwian Ranger in the early Vanguard betas played out by Aradune. 

    It is also by timing -- if you are in beta over 6 months before the game releases and especially 12 months before the game releases then you are in the actual beta and things that you say actually have some meaning.  Once you reach 3-4 months before the game releases then they are mainly looking for performance issues, typos, and exploits. 

    Gdemami
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,228
    edited June 14
    Would you pay a dealership full price for a car as long as they promise to get the doors/missing 2 seats in the back and AC installed in the future? Don't forget that you'll have to pay additional labor costs that vary per installation.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,102
    edited June 14
    I would say 99.9% are NOT soft releases,what they are up to is a full out scam job.

    What the devs are doing is set an allotted time and expenditure and once that is met,not a single dime is spent until they see money coming in.They spend so little and so little time,it is more like a test to see if the game will sell or not,if not,simply shut it down or go into maintenance mode and rip off anyone dumb enough to give them money.

    This is what i would call a win win for the developer and mostly a lose lose for the consumer.Even if things go well,they get more sales than expected,there is still a very good chance they do very little after the fact.

    A very noticeable case in point was H1Z1,that was simply Smedley's scam job to generate cash before selling out or as a selling point,he had no intention of doing much to the game afterwards.I was actually surprised to see the release was way back in early 2015,VERY little work was done to the game in the following years.

    The core profits are in the first 2 weeks of sales,the devs know that after that very little money will come in,so they act accordingly.

    Point being that i wouldn't call these  a SOFT release,one that is expected to see a lot of change and additional work in the following months,years,this is almost never the case.Since we see almost no work done afterwards,these are FINAL sales,a RIP OFF,unfinished buggy mess..final sale.

    Legit businesses that do honor a final sale with no misleading early access tags,always do more work than these EA games.


    klash2def

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,640
    bcbully said:
    OP I think you meant to put your topic in the pub or general gaming. 
    Unfortunately the pub is turning more and more worthless everyday.

    The hot topic there is some God awful Asian grinder and some kind of cash shop dungeon thing.  The topic is brought up by some Asian avatar poster that promotes a different Asian grinder that no one cares about every three days.

    Developers destroyed the mmorpg market. 
    To make matters worst, "posters here" are clueless and think people don't want them anymore.  Thats another topic there. 



    Two promising games left is Pantheon and Saga of Lucimia that had gone completely underground for now.  Believe me their is a following for that game, I know for sure.  I shouldn't be selfish by not bringing up Ashes of Creation.  It seems somewhat reputable but many people will be let down when they find it will be pure PvP.  Good for the PvPers, however their are many games for them already.


    Why bring up soft release topic here ? 
    With the one in a million chance worthwhile developers will see this and not risk their game.

    Few to none ever survived an undone soft release. 
    GdemamiScot
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 609
    Early Access or Soft Release is the worst thing that can happen to a MMORPG.
    I don't mind EA on Single Player games, but applied to MMORPGs is just a recipe for disaster.

    Take SOTA. Apart for all the awful design decisions, one thing that really annoyed me was the fact that the game was a constant work in progress, you never knew if the game was released or not.

    In a MMORPG, you need to start with a bang, what I mean is that you need a huge player influx happening at the same time (official launch), hoping to retain the majority of those players for a long spell.

    When you have a soft launch like SOTA, you have small chunk of players joining at any given time.
    When those players realize the game is empty, they quit.
    When the next influx of players join in, the previous ones quit already, so they eventually quit too.
    Rinse and repeat.

    Pantheon need to launch old style.
    It should have few weeks of Open Beta and then a proper launch. Its servers should explode if necessary. But that's the only way to go.
    delete5230Gdemami
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,227
    delete5230 said: 

    The topic is brought up by some Asian avatar poster that promotes a different Asian grinder that no one cares about every three days. 


    I am pausing to savor the irony. You are complaining about repetitive pointless posts? 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

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