Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Unless I missed something, I don't see a ~$200 GPU on the market that was released in the last few months or is releasing in the next few. This seems really bad for the midrange gaming market and for people who don't have a 1k to throw a just a PC, never mind the cost of or peripherals.
I am pretty sure those are all the old architecture. That was the point. It does not seem like the new architecture Navi/RTX have a price point in the 200s. I don't consider hard refresh of 3 year old cards long term solutions for new builds now. Others may, and that is fine.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
a 1060 is a ~3 year old card. This does not impact me much, but I know it will impact friends of mine. Going to Best Buy to get a $700 PC with a dedicated GPU seems to be gone. The GPU market seems to have inflated about ~1.7% over the last few years.
a 1060 came out at $250 and now a 2060 is $370. A 1080Ti was $700 now a 2080TI is $1200.
I see this as a terrible thing for PC gaming. It will only make consoles and streaming more appealing options and that is really bad for PC gamers long term.
I really hope we see a current gen GPU come out in the $200 range.
You're talking like the 10 series GTX is already old and obsolete.. it isn't.
According to Kano it is...
/Cheers, Lahnmir
The minority who pays for all the most expensive and latest stuff is often the loudest. What he considers obsolete (because he doesn't use it anymore) is still pretty standard IMO because it's what the vast majority of the market can afford.
I personally don't consider anything below $800 a gaming PC because a console does a better job than any $500-600 dollar PC. You want a better experience than a console, be ready to shell out $800+
Realistically you cannot build a (decent) pc for under 1000, that is going to be functional for the next few years. Most VCs are $300-500. So really not a possibility. Either increase your budget, or wait until you have the funds. And yes I have built quite a few systems myself.
Unless I missed something, I don't see a ~$200 GPU on the market that was released in the last few months or is releasing in the next few. This seems really bad for the midrange gaming market and for people who don't have a 1k to throw a just a PC, never mind the cost of or peripherals.
I am pretty sure those are all the old architecture. That was the point. It does not seem like the new architecture Navi/RTX have a price point in the 200s. I don't consider hard refresh of 3 year old cards long term solutions for new builds now. Others may, and that is fine.
The GTX 1660 is a Turing card and just launched in March of this year. The GTX 1650 launched in April. Those are both very recent cards and of Nvidia's latest architecture.
The Radeon RX 590 is a little older, as it dates to last November. That is just a refresh of the RX 580, which was itself a refresh of the RX 480. And the Polaris architecture is heavily derivative of GCN cards going all the way back to 2012.
But just because AMD hasn't released a full lineup of Navi cards yet doesn't mean that it isn't coming. Well, Navi and its successors may or may not ever reach into the sub-$100 range, but it will have something around $200 eventually.
Meanwhile, the 1080 cards still range from $750 to $1300 on the same NewEgg site.....
I guess there's little market pressure or tech improvement to reduce their mfg cost or selling prices.
The GTX 1080 is discontinued and gone. A lot of discontinued cards have a few stragglers that stay in stock at stupid prices for a long time.
Not only that some people try to sell these card used at stupid prices too expecting to get nearly full original purchase price due to the inflated pricing on newegg and amazon etc.
I have seen people try and sell the gtx 1080ti for more than a brand new rtx 2080 when it's on a half decent sale which frankly is ridonculuos...lol
Post edited by Asm0deus on
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I went back to 2014, not sure if makes much sense to go back
any further. I also only have nvidia
data here. It looks to me like nvidia
set an inflated price and AMD decided to go with it. Between the 9xx and 10xx there were very
large improvements for very close to the same cost (within $50). For the next launch we got smaller improvements
for a much larger price jump.
I see it is unpopular to say here, but I really wanted a
Navi 6GB video card to drop for ~$250. Something
to provide really good price to performance gains that we are missing in this
generation. It would help the midrange
market a lot.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
I went back to 2014, not sure if makes much sense to go back
any further. I also only have nvidia
data here. It looks to me like nvidia
set an inflated price and AMD decided to go with it. Between the 9xx and 10xx there were very
large improvements for very close to the same cost (within $50). For the next launch we got smaller improvements
for a much larger price jump.
I see it is unpopular to say here, but I really wanted a
Navi 6GB video card to drop for ~$250. Something
to provide really good price to performance gains that we are missing in this
generation. It would help the midrange
market a lot.
Aye nvidia has been inflating prices these last few years..its quite annoying and making me think of buying used (gpu's) which is something I would never have done a few years ago.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I don't remember there ever being $550-700 gaming PC's.
You never bought a midrange PCs or build them for others. I have built them on more than one occasion. I have seen suggestion on this forum for them.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
Unless I missed something, I don't see a ~$200 GPU on the market that was released in the last few months or is releasing in the next few. This seems really bad for the midrange gaming market and for people who don't have a 1k to throw a just a PC, never mind the cost of or peripherals.
I am pretty sure those are all the old architecture. That was the point. It does not seem like the new architecture Navi/RTX have a price point in the 200s. I don't consider hard refresh of 3 year old cards long term solutions for new builds now. Others may, and that is fine.
The GTX 1660 is a Turing card and just launched in March of this year. The GTX 1650 launched in April. Those are both very recent cards and of Nvidia's latest architecture.
The Radeon RX 590 is a little older, as it dates to last November. That is just a refresh of the RX 580, which was itself a refresh of the RX 480. And the Polaris architecture is heavily derivative of GCN cards going all the way back to 2012.
But just because AMD hasn't released a full lineup of Navi cards yet doesn't mean that it isn't coming. Well, Navi and its successors may or may not ever reach into the sub-$100 range, but it will have something around $200 eventually.
I was wrong, I thought the 16xx were still pascal. So nvidia did offer a $200 option. AMD has not. Hopefully they do.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
The saddest part of this whole thread is people believe they have to buy the latest and greatest of everything to run curret games. The cards that came out last year and are discounted this year do just fine lol.
Meanwhile, the 1080 cards still range from $750 to $1300 on the same NewEgg site.....
I guess there's little market pressure or tech improvement to reduce their mfg cost or selling prices.
The GTX 1080 is discontinued and gone. A lot of discontinued cards have a few stragglers that stay in stock at stupid prices for a long time.
All GTX 1080 cards are discontinued, including the GTX1080 TI, 1080 FE and the 1080 FE TI?
If so New Egg sure seems to have a lot of stock in all four cards, at again, prices up into the $1350 range for many.
OK, disregard my question, I see the 2080 cards are all much cheaper than any of the 1080s, can't fathom why the older stock isn't marked down nor why anyone would want the older cards.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not that long ago a midrange gaming PC build would pretty much always come in under $700 and and often be around the $600 range. It looks like the new pricing that we see from Intel, AMD, and Nvidia have all but killed that market. It is looking like the very low end gaming PC will be $700+ and the top end will be around 2k.
I don't see this is a good thing at all with especially when you consider the amount of money that is being thrown into streaming gaming.
For people who have knowledge of fabrication costs, is this price gouging or has cost to produce these products moved up rapidly. I know RAM was really pricey, but that has normalized recently and I would assume a move to a smaller die would reduce some cost too (AMD).
Unless I missed something, I don't see a ~$200 GPU on the market that was released in the last few months or is releasing in the next few. This seems really bad for the midrange gaming market and for people who don't have a 1k to throw a just a PC, never mind the cost of or peripherals.
What is gonna be crazy is next gen the price of a PC that is more powerful then one of the new consoles is likely going to be at least double the price of said consoles. I still would rather have a PC, but yeah. That is kinda crazy. The tech going into the new consoles is pretty wild for a generational leap, much closer to high end PCs then before.
Meanwhile, the 1080 cards still range from $750 to $1300 on the same NewEgg site.....
I guess there's little market pressure or tech improvement to reduce their mfg cost or selling prices.
The GTX 1080 is discontinued and gone. A lot of discontinued cards have a few stragglers that stay in stock at stupid prices for a long time.
All GTX 1080 cards are discontinued, including the GTX1080 TI, 1080 FE and the 1080 FE TI?
If so New Egg sure seems to have a lot of stock in all four cards, at again, prices up into the $1350 range for many.
Yes, the GTX 1080 is very discontinued. Nvidia probably hasn't manufactured any more of the GPU chips in a year or so. The GDDR5X memory that they use was discontinued by Micron around then, too, so even if Nvidia built more of the GPU chips, they couldn't assemble completed cards without paying Micron a fortune to do a special production run.
Most of the GTX 1080 and GTX 1080 Ti cards on New Egg's web site aren't sold by New Egg, but by other vendors that list them on the site. Some inflated prices for the mining bubble, didn't drop prices after the bubble ended, and so they still have some stock at crazy prices. All of the GTX 1080 or 1080 Ti cards sold by New Egg directly are open box or refurbished. They also have only one each of a GTX 1070 and GTX 1070 Ti that isn't open box or refurbished.
It's common for old cards to hang around for a long time at stupid prices, and then not sell because they're at stupid prices. For example, here's some GeForce GTX 285 cards:
I went back to 2014, not sure if makes much sense to go back
any further. I also only have nvidia
data here. It looks to me like nvidia
set an inflated price and AMD decided to go with it. Between the 9xx and 10xx there were very
large improvements for very close to the same cost (within $50). For the next launch we got smaller improvements
for a much larger price jump.
I see it is unpopular to say here, but I really wanted a
Navi 6GB video card to drop for ~$250. Something
to provide really good price to performance gains that we are missing in this
generation. It would help the midrange
market a lot.
One problem is that some of your numbers are wrong. The launch MSRP was $600 for a GTX 1080 and $700 for a GTX 2080, for example.
But the bigger problem is that you're comparing based on model numbers, not die size. Model numbers are a marketing thing, not an engineering thing. Their only real meaning is that it's what marketing people thought would sell the most cards at the highest prices.
Very early GPUs on very new process nodes often command a price premium to compensate for poor early yields. That certainly skewed the MSRP of the Radeon HD 7970, GeForce GTX 1080, Radeon VII, and some others that I avoided in my analysis above. But such cards tend to see considerable price drops as the process node matures. I'll bet that the Radeon RX 5700 XT doesn't still cost $450 when Nvidia launches their first 7 nm GPU.
One other point is that I wouldn't count on getting a 6 GB Navi card at all, ever. AMD hasn't had discrete GPUs with a memory size that wasn't a power of 2 since the Radeon HD 7970 and 7950 in 2012, which was later rebranded as the R9 280 and 280X. Apart from that, you'd have to go all the way back to before they bought ATI in 2006.
The days of $200-300 good graphics cards is gone most likely forever.
Expect to shell out at least $450-500+ for a good 2K card now (yes I am considering 2K gaming average now, I consider 1080p low end)
So a 2k game PC for $500-700 - not gonna happen when the video card is almost $500
I have to disagree, when you sit close to a monitor 4k is just overkill, differences are minor compared to 1080p. You can get a nice RX-480/490 in the $200 price range which is great for 1080p. I should know, I have a 32" 1080p next to a 27" 4k and the 32" is my main monitor. The 32" monitor gets most of my gaming, I end up using the 4k monitor for a 2nd client or other programs. Good 4k monitors will cost as much as PC still.
Nvidia'a ray tracing is merely a gimmick at this stage and it seems that AMD's Navi is not much better.
So stick one of these RX-480/490s in a budget build and you have a great gaming PC. So you can still build a decent gaming computer for $700. Of course, the elitists need all the new bells and whistles and would never accept such a common build. The low-end Nvidia cards are just junk.
GTX 970 launch price $329 GTX 1060 6GB launch price $279 and being about 10% faster than GTX 970 GTX 1660 6GB launch price $219 and being about 15% faster than GTX 1060 6GB
Same pattern as usual - $60 off for 10-15% better performance, evil greedy Nvidia and sky is falling...again...
960 was 199 at launch, not sure why you are using the 970.
Big tech evolution that gen. The 1060 is faster than the 970 whereas the 960 was not faster than the 770. 970 is the equivalent previous gen card when it comes to the 1060.
What? The 960 was definitely faster than the 770, my 770 died and I upgraded to a 960 and it was a definite increase.
If you are planning to play 1080p and don't demand max graphics on any game, there are lots of options for a gaming system under $700.
My choice would be an AMD Ryzen 5 2600X on a good motherboard with 16GB of RAM, using the built on Vega 10 graphics, and 1GB SSHD. With case and Operating system, you should easily be under $700. The nice thing about such a system is that it would be adequate for modern games with the graphics turned down, and only a good video card away from a very good gaming machine when finances allow.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
Comments
I guess there's little market pressure or tech improvement to reduce their mfg cost or selling prices.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
--John Ruskin
The Radeon RX 590 is a little older, as it dates to last November. That is just a refresh of the RX 580, which was itself a refresh of the RX 480. And the Polaris architecture is heavily derivative of GCN cards going all the way back to 2012.
But just because AMD hasn't released a full lineup of Navi cards yet doesn't mean that it isn't coming. Well, Navi and its successors may or may not ever reach into the sub-$100 range, but it will have something around $200 eventually.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
If so New Egg sure seems to have a lot of stock in all four cards, at again, prices up into the $1350 range for many.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
960 $200 at luanch.
1060 75% faster $250 at launch.
2060 52% faster and $350 at launch.
970 $329
1070 54% faster $379.
2070 34% faster $600
980 $550 at launch
1080 64% faster and $500 launch price.
2080 22% faster $800 higher launch price.
980ti $650
1080ti 57% faster $700.
2080ti 26% faster $1200.
I went back to 2014, not sure if makes much sense to go back any further. I also only have nvidia data here. It looks to me like nvidia set an inflated price and AMD decided to go with it. Between the 9xx and 10xx there were very large improvements for very close to the same cost (within $50). For the next launch we got smaller improvements for a much larger price jump.
I see it is unpopular to say here, but I really wanted a Navi 6GB video card to drop for ~$250. Something to provide really good price to performance gains that we are missing in this generation. It would help the midrange market a lot.
--John Ruskin
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
--John Ruskin
--John Ruskin
Weird.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Most of the GTX 1080 and GTX 1080 Ti cards on New Egg's web site aren't sold by New Egg, but by other vendors that list them on the site. Some inflated prices for the mining bubble, didn't drop prices after the bubble ended, and so they still have some stock at crazy prices. All of the GTX 1080 or 1080 Ti cards sold by New Egg directly are open box or refurbished. They also have only one each of a GTX 1070 and GTX 1070 Ti that isn't open box or refurbished.
It's common for old cards to hang around for a long time at stupid prices, and then not sell because they're at stupid prices. For example, here's some GeForce GTX 285 cards:
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709 600007590
Those were discontinued about a decade ago, but that doesn't mean that you can't still buy them brand new.
But the bigger problem is that you're comparing based on model numbers, not die size. Model numbers are a marketing thing, not an engineering thing. Their only real meaning is that it's what marketing people thought would sell the most cards at the highest prices.
Very early GPUs on very new process nodes often command a price premium to compensate for poor early yields. That certainly skewed the MSRP of the Radeon HD 7970, GeForce GTX 1080, Radeon VII, and some others that I avoided in my analysis above. But such cards tend to see considerable price drops as the process node matures. I'll bet that the Radeon RX 5700 XT doesn't still cost $450 when Nvidia launches their first 7 nm GPU.
One other point is that I wouldn't count on getting a 6 GB Navi card at all, ever. AMD hasn't had discrete GPUs with a memory size that wasn't a power of 2 since the Radeon HD 7970 and 7950 in 2012, which was later rebranded as the R9 280 and 280X. Apart from that, you'd have to go all the way back to before they bought ATI in 2006.
Nvidia'a ray tracing is merely a gimmick at this stage and it seems that AMD's Navi is not much better.
So stick one of these RX-480/490s in a budget build and you have a great gaming PC. So you can still build a decent gaming computer for $700. Of course, the elitists need all the new bells and whistles and would never accept such a common build. The low-end Nvidia cards are just junk.
My choice would be an AMD Ryzen 5 2600X on a good motherboard with 16GB of RAM, using the built on Vega 10 graphics, and 1GB SSHD. With case and Operating system, you should easily be under $700. The nice thing about such a system is that it would be adequate for modern games with the graphics turned down, and only a good video card away from a very good gaming machine when finances allow.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!