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Okay WTF is a MMO? Really?

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  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,079
    edited June 2019
    See this is why I came up with a new term to describe these games that more specific and less vague like the term MMO is which ca  be exploited by marketers.

    Mods here banned me for using the term because they said it cause confusion. 

    The term was SCMOG
    Which stands for Soft Cap Multiplayer Online Game.

    Softcap since all games have a limit on the number of players but some games have a soft floating cap limit that allow massively multiplayer interaction in the same gameplay Game space. These are the traditional MMO games.

    HCMOG
    Which stands for Hard Cap Multiplayer Online Game.
    These are games that have a hard cap to the number of players, anything beyond it would be game breaking. For example Halo 1 was 4 player multiplayer hard cap. Suddenly changing that to 115 players would break the gameplay for something it was never built for. Same with other multiplayer games like Overwatched and League of Legend. They all ha e multiplayer but it's at a fixed hard cap setting for gameplay design. These would be the traditional MO games.

    image

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,262
    hmmm good choice. B)



  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited June 2019
    Man I love playin me some Massively Multiplayer Online, which apparently is short hand for any non-single player game these days. Now I'm off to download my favorite bands new phonograph album from Amazon.
    Why do you think the game needs multiplayer?

    All it needs is a hoppin' subreddit page.  You can't play together at all, but you can share your stories and screenshots of you playing by yourself with a MASSIVE community of folks online!  Add a "Daily Screenshot" thread so you check off that "Dailies" box, though!  VERY important.

    image
  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,759
    edited June 2019
    Dead_Guy said:
    Developers and websites (like this one) are listing games as 'MMOs' simply because there are no 'MO' categories or websites. Look at Steam, do you see an 'Online Multiplayer' section? Nope, but you do see a 'Massively Multiplayer' section. How many 'Online Multiplayer' websites do you know of? None, because there are none.

    To most people, 'MMOs' are a genre, which is utterly retarded. RPGs are a genre, shooters are a genre, 'Massively Multiplayer' is not a freaking genre. Platforms like Steam and websites like this one are confusing the hell out of people, and I'm pretty sure it's done on purpose.



    I disagree. MMO is a genre. RPG is a subgenres of MMOs like FPS or can be. Those can also be subgenres of MO games and single player games. 
    Planetside 2 is a MMOFPS where as WoW is a MMORPG. Both are MMOs.

    Now compare Planetside 2 and Destiny 2. Both are FPS but two different genre. One is a MMo the other a MO game.
    You think RPG is a subgenres  of MMO's. Didn't RPG's come first. Unless I am mistaken from what you are saying.
    Currently playing: Outer Worlds (Xbox One X)

    Currently Reading: Skaven Slayer (Gotrek and Felix Book 2)

    Currently Writing: Champions of Legend Book 1 (3rd Draft)

    Currently Watching: Oz (Season 4), Soprano's (Season 1)


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Arterius said:
    Dead_Guy said:
    Developers and websites (like this one) are listing games as 'MMOs' simply because there are no 'MO' categories or websites. Look at Steam, do you see an 'Online Multiplayer' section? Nope, but you do see a 'Massively Multiplayer' section. How many 'Online Multiplayer' websites do you know of? None, because there are none.

    To most people, 'MMOs' are a genre, which is utterly retarded. RPGs are a genre, shooters are a genre, 'Massively Multiplayer' is not a freaking genre. Platforms like Steam and websites like this one are confusing the hell out of people, and I'm pretty sure it's done on purpose.



    I disagree. MMO is a genre. RPG is a subgenres of MMOs like FPS or can be. Those can also be subgenres of MO games and single player games. 
    Planetside 2 is a MMOFPS where as WoW is a MMORPG. Both are MMOs.

    Now compare Planetside 2 and Destiny 2. Both are FPS but two different genre. One is a MMo the other a MO game.
    You think RPG is a subgenres  of MMO's. Didn't RPG's come first. Unless I am mistaken from what you are saying.
    I think you can look at it both ways.  MMORPGs are a subgenre of RPGs and MMOs.

    image
  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,759
    Arterius said:
    Dead_Guy said:
    Developers and websites (like this one) are listing games as 'MMOs' simply because there are no 'MO' categories or websites. Look at Steam, do you see an 'Online Multiplayer' section? Nope, but you do see a 'Massively Multiplayer' section. How many 'Online Multiplayer' websites do you know of? None, because there are none.

    To most people, 'MMOs' are a genre, which is utterly retarded. RPGs are a genre, shooters are a genre, 'Massively Multiplayer' is not a freaking genre. Platforms like Steam and websites like this one are confusing the hell out of people, and I'm pretty sure it's done on purpose.



    I disagree. MMO is a genre. RPG is a subgenres of MMOs like FPS or can be. Those can also be subgenres of MO games and single player games. 
    Planetside 2 is a MMOFPS where as WoW is a MMORPG. Both are MMOs.

    Now compare Planetside 2 and Destiny 2. Both are FPS but two different genre. One is a MMo the other a MO game.
    You think RPG is a subgenres  of MMO's. Didn't RPG's come first. Unless I am mistaken from what you are saying.
    I think you can look at it both ways.  MMORPGs are a subgenre of RPGs and MMOs.
    I mean I look at both MMO's and RPG's as genres. I mean the first RPG I would say is Dungeons and Dragons and that came out before the first MMO. I don't even know if MMO's would exist as we know them without Dungeons and Dragons. Now I don't know what the first RPG video game was but even if it was a MMO I would still say that MMO's would be a sub genre of RPG if anything.
    Currently playing: Outer Worlds (Xbox One X)

    Currently Reading: Skaven Slayer (Gotrek and Felix Book 2)

    Currently Writing: Champions of Legend Book 1 (3rd Draft)

    Currently Watching: Oz (Season 4), Soprano's (Season 1)


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited June 2019
    Arterius said:
    Arterius said:
    Dead_Guy said:
    Developers and websites (like this one) are listing games as 'MMOs' simply because there are no 'MO' categories or websites. Look at Steam, do you see an 'Online Multiplayer' section? Nope, but you do see a 'Massively Multiplayer' section. How many 'Online Multiplayer' websites do you know of? None, because there are none.

    To most people, 'MMOs' are a genre, which is utterly retarded. RPGs are a genre, shooters are a genre, 'Massively Multiplayer' is not a freaking genre. Platforms like Steam and websites like this one are confusing the hell out of people, and I'm pretty sure it's done on purpose.



    I disagree. MMO is a genre. RPG is a subgenres of MMOs like FPS or can be. Those can also be subgenres of MO games and single player games. 
    Planetside 2 is a MMOFPS where as WoW is a MMORPG. Both are MMOs.

    Now compare Planetside 2 and Destiny 2. Both are FPS but two different genre. One is a MMo the other a MO game.
    You think RPG is a subgenres  of MMO's. Didn't RPG's come first. Unless I am mistaken from what you are saying.
    I think you can look at it both ways.  MMORPGs are a subgenre of RPGs and MMOs.
    I mean I look at both MMO's and RPG's as genres. I mean the first RPG I would say is Dungeons and Dragons and that came out before the first MMO. I don't even know if MMO's would exist as we know them without Dungeons and Dragons. Now I don't know what the first RPG video game was but even if it was a MMO I would still say that MMO's would be a sub genre of RPG if anything.
    What I meant was, I'm not sure there's a reason to place priority over one or the other.  The question: is an MMORPG an RPG first, or an MMO first?  Doesn't seem to need an answer, though I'll admit genres don't work this way in music ("classic" is the subgenre in "classic rock").

    Incidentally, if I was trying to pose the system in a parallel to music, RPG would be the "genre" and MMO would be the "subgenre", I would think.  RPG can be used as a stand-alone term and we know the gameplay experience we're getting.  MMO merely modifies the underlying game genre it's attached to by way of a specific kind of multiplayer to be included (I guess I should say: modifie :D ).
    Arterius

    image
  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,759
    edited June 2019
    Arterius said:
    Arterius said:
    Dead_Guy said:
    Developers and websites (like this one) are listing games as 'MMOs' simply because there are no 'MO' categories or websites. Look at Steam, do you see an 'Online Multiplayer' section? Nope, but you do see a 'Massively Multiplayer' section. How many 'Online Multiplayer' websites do you know of? None, because there are none.

    To most people, 'MMOs' are a genre, which is utterly retarded. RPGs are a genre, shooters are a genre, 'Massively Multiplayer' is not a freaking genre. Platforms like Steam and websites like this one are confusing the hell out of people, and I'm pretty sure it's done on purpose.



    I disagree. MMO is a genre. RPG is a subgenres of MMOs like FPS or can be. Those can also be subgenres of MO games and single player games. 
    Planetside 2 is a MMOFPS where as WoW is a MMORPG. Both are MMOs.

    Now compare Planetside 2 and Destiny 2. Both are FPS but two different genre. One is a MMo the other a MO game.
    You think RPG is a subgenres  of MMO's. Didn't RPG's come first. Unless I am mistaken from what you are saying.
    I think you can look at it both ways.  MMORPGs are a subgenre of RPGs and MMOs.
    I mean I look at both MMO's and RPG's as genres. I mean the first RPG I would say is Dungeons and Dragons and that came out before the first MMO. I don't even know if MMO's would exist as we know them without Dungeons and Dragons. Now I don't know what the first RPG video game was but even if it was a MMO I would still say that MMO's would be a sub genre of RPG if anything.
    What I meant was, I'm not sure there's a reason to place priority over one or the other.  The question: is an MMORPG an RPG first, or an MMO first?  Doesn't seem to need an answer, though I'll admit genres don't work this way in music ("classic" is the subgenre in "classic rock").

    Incidentally, if I was trying to pose the system in a parallel to music, RPG would be the "genre" and MMO would be the "subgenre", I would think.
    Again don't really want to get into the argument as a whole. I just think that its crazy to think that an RPG is a subgenre of a MMO. Also I wasn't pointing it towards you at all. I generally agree with your POV. I was more asking MMOExposed what he meant when he said that MMO's were the genre and RPG's are the off shoot

    MadFrenchie
    Currently playing: Outer Worlds (Xbox One X)

    Currently Reading: Skaven Slayer (Gotrek and Felix Book 2)

    Currently Writing: Champions of Legend Book 1 (3rd Draft)

    Currently Watching: Oz (Season 4), Soprano's (Season 1)


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,733
    edited June 2019
    2014 ME an Intellectual: "I think Destiny is an MMO (At least Lite) here's why I think this"

    2014 random mmorpg.com forum user: "IDIOT. YOU MUST THINK A TRUCK IS a CAR TOO!"

    2014 ME an Intellectual: "No, mister...there is a diff between a car and a truck, but I do think both of those things can be one thing, it's called a Crossover SUV. We say Truck when we mean SUV because an SUV is a type of truck. People that drive Range Rover don't say I'm going to wash my SUV, they say they are washing the -truck-. Although it's not exactly a -truck- (SUV), they aren't exactly wrong for saying it." 



    2019 Bungie Creators of Destiny: "Destiny is an Action MMO" 
    2019 Me an Intellectual: "Nice."
    2019 random mmorpg.com user: "Bungie is stupid, booooooo klash2def the *insert random insult*!" 


    2019 Me an Intellectual:
     






    ArteriusVermillion_RaventhalSteelhelm
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,502
    MOST people,likely 90% or more THINK a MMO is how many people can login and do not take into consideration the actual game play where it really matters.
    If a game like Wow for example has an end game where everyone is in instances or ALL their dungeons are instances,it is NOT a MMO.

    A MMO is where everyone can see and react to the other online players.Just like real life,you do not have to be interacting at all times but the possibility should be there.

    I have not been playing mmorpg's for awhile now but if memory serves me FFXI is one of the ONLY mmorpg's where you can react with a group even if not in that group.So using that as the template,most every game takes a downward spiral from FFXI's design when we SHOULD be trying to improve the mmo and the RPG aspect,most games do neither well.
    Arteriusmmolou

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,759
    Wizardry said:
    MOST people,likely 90% or more THINK a MMO is how many people can login and do not take into consideration the actual game play where it really matters.
    If a game like Wow for example has an end game where everyone is in instances or ALL their dungeons are instances,it is NOT a MMO.

    A MMO is where everyone can see and react to the other online players.Just like real life,you do not have to be interacting at all times but the possibility should be there.

    I have not been playing mmorpg's for awhile now but if memory serves me FFXI is one of the ONLY mmorpg's where you can react with a group even if not in that group.So using that as the template,most every game takes a downward spiral from FFXI's design when we SHOULD be trying to improve the mmo and the RPG aspect,most games do neither well.
    So your saying that the only MMO in history is FFXI. That is one hot take.
    Currently playing: Outer Worlds (Xbox One X)

    Currently Reading: Skaven Slayer (Gotrek and Felix Book 2)

    Currently Writing: Champions of Legend Book 1 (3rd Draft)

    Currently Watching: Oz (Season 4), Soprano's (Season 1)


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,167
    DMKano said:
    Lock thread pls
    No way

    This is the argument that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started arguing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue arguing it forever just because... This is the...
    klash2defMadFrenchieArterius
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,733
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,733
    ‘real MMO’ people are not experts in MMO's they just remember some stuff from a very narrow window of their life when they cared lol
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 4,113
    MMOs are numbers wrapped in skins.
    Sadly.

    Once upon a time....

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,910
    klash2def said:
    2014 ME an Intellectual: "I think Destiny is an MMO (At least Lite) here's why I think this"

    2014 random mmorpg.com forum user: "IDIOT. YOU MUST THINK A TRUCK IS a CAR TOO!"

    2014 ME an Intellectual: "No, mister...there is a diff between a car and a truck, but I do think both of those things can be one thing, it's called a Crossover SUV. We say Truck when we mean SUV because an SUV is a type of truck. People that drive Range Rover don't say I'm going to wash my SUV, they say they are washing the -truck-. Although it's not exactly a -truck- (SUV), they aren't exactly wrong for saying it." 



    2019 Bungie Creators of Destiny: "Destiny is an Action MMO" 
    2019 Me an Intellectual: "Nice."
    2019 random mmorpg.com user: "Bungie is stupid, booooooo klash2def the *insert random insult*!" 


    2019 Me an Intellectual:
     






    You forgot:

    2014 Cryomatrix: Doesn't give a shit
    2019 Cryomatrix: Still not giving a shit
    2024 Cryomatrix: . . . 
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,733
    edited June 2019
    klash2def said:
    2014 ME an Intellectual: "I think Destiny is an MMO (At least Lite) here's why I think this"

    2014 random mmorpg.com forum user: "IDIOT. YOU MUST THINK A TRUCK IS a CAR TOO!"

    2014 ME an Intellectual: "No, mister...there is a diff between a car and a truck, but I do think both of those things can be one thing, it's called a Crossover SUV. We say Truck when we mean SUV because an SUV is a type of truck. People that drive Range Rover don't say I'm going to wash my SUV, they say they are washing the -truck-. Although it's not exactly a -truck- (SUV), they aren't exactly wrong for saying it." 



    2019 Bungie Creators of Destiny: "Destiny is an Action MMO" 
    2019 Me an Intellectual: "Nice."
    2019 random mmorpg.com user: "Bungie is stupid, booooooo klash2def the *insert random insult*!" 


    2019 Me an Intellectual:
     






    You forgot:

    2014 Cryomatrix: Doesn't give a shit
    2019 Cryomatrix: Still not giving a shit
    2024 Cryomatrix: . . . 
    hmm, you do a lot of quoting for someone who doesn't give a shit... very interesting! oFc You don't care now, because you realize I was right and Bungie confirmed it.  But you did a lot of back and forth for a person who didnt give a shit... lol... Twitch hasn't given you that partnership yet? Better get back to work! 

    Try Streaming Destiny yet? 
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,910
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:
    2014 ME an Intellectual: "I think Destiny is an MMO (At least Lite) here's why I think this"

    2014 random mmorpg.com forum user: "IDIOT. YOU MUST THINK A TRUCK IS a CAR TOO!"

    2014 ME an Intellectual: "No, mister...there is a diff between a car and a truck, but I do think both of those things can be one thing, it's called a Crossover SUV. We say Truck when we mean SUV because an SUV is a type of truck. People that drive Range Rover don't say I'm going to wash my SUV, they say they are washing the -truck-. Although it's not exactly a -truck- (SUV), they aren't exactly wrong for saying it." 



    2019 Bungie Creators of Destiny: "Destiny is an Action MMO" 
    2019 Me an Intellectual: "Nice."
    2019 random mmorpg.com user: "Bungie is stupid, booooooo klash2def the *insert random insult*!" 


    2019 Me an Intellectual:
     






    You forgot:

    2014 Cryomatrix: Doesn't give a shit
    2019 Cryomatrix: Still not giving a shit
    2024 Cryomatrix: . . . 
    hmm, you do a lot of quoting for someone who doesn't give a shit... very interesting! oFc You don't care now, because you realize I was right and Bungie confirmed it.  But you did a lot of back and forth for a person who didnt give a shit... lol... Twitch hasn't given you that partnership yet? Better get back to work! 

    Try Streaming Destiny yet? 
    You confused me for someone, i doubt i had any back and forth as I rarely do it.
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,079
    Prime example

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/905370/Conquerors_Blade/?l=romanian

    Master the art of medieval warcraft in this free-to-play tactical action MMO. Create a unique warlord from 10 different classes, and wage war in epic 15 v 15 siege battles. Employ special abilities, devastating weapons, and cunning strategies to reshape this vast open world into your new empire.

    image

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,431
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    And the silence...  Is deafening.
    I do other things as well you know!  ;)

    So think of it this way, if a massive amount of people access online poker yet no one has ever offered that online poker is an mmo there must be other criteria that also play into the decision.

    And again, it doesn't matter what we say here. If in 5 years people start calling online poker an mmo then "it is what it is."

    Sorry but people can stomp and shout and jump and gnash their teeth all they want. 

    Some games are being called mmo's and it seems that only a few people have issue with it. 

    What does this mean?

    That in a few years online poker will be an mmo! :p
    Well, that's my point: there's not set criteria.  Everyone took the ball and, as soon as the floodgates opened, ran in different directions.  Hence, the lack of clarity and consistency.

    It's rendered the term meaningless in the sense that it's better served with a term we already have (hence why MMO was ever coined in the first place to separate a specific sort of multiplayer).
    Except you're not going to get that. You want things to be as you see them but that's just not how life works.

    Maybe, that "term we already have" will no longer be used and "mmo" will be the new term?

    See what I'm saying? you should be excited, you are witnessing the changing of a term right in front of your eyes!

    That's history!
    I doubt etymologists focus on this particular term. :D

    If there were any consistency to it, it'd be acceptable.  There isn't.  You talk of making the world the way one wants as if the start of this thing wasn't literally some marketing team doing the same.  That's neither here nor there, because it's equally applicable to both sides of the discussion (and since it was the evolution stance that originally tried to alter an accepted meaning, they're more guilty of that than even the traditionalists).
    Does their have to be consistency? As far as I'm aware all language has been plagued by inconsistency.

    Heck, in upstate new york "soda" is called pop. And on some places it's actually called "coke" no matter what type of soda it is.

    If said "sourdough" to  you you would say  "... it's the best damn bread in the world next to Rye..." (right? RIGHT?!?!?)

    but in Alaska it doesn't mean bread at all.

    I would say, given that i'm no professional in the study of language, that the only consistent thing about language is it follows the path of least resistance. Whatever is more easily adapted, understood and used is what it becomes.

    Remember, "Aweful" now "Awful" used to mean that something inspired Awe. Now it means something horrible. Rubbers were those little boots that you had a heck of a time pulling on over your shoes.

    etc, etc.

    You aren't going to get consistency. Sorry. 
    As someone who has actually studied language and etymology professionaly I can tell you you are right. Languages are dynamic and change constantly, erretically. There were static languages too where words and phrases never changed meaning and they all have one thing in common, they are now extinct. An important distinction is that between dialect and language btw, dialect behaves slightly differently.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir  
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Prime example

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/905370/Conquerors_Blade/?l=romanian

    Master the art of medieval warcraft in this free-to-play tactical action MMO. Create a unique warlord from 10 different classes, and wage war in epic 15 v 15 siege battles. Employ special abilities, devastating weapons, and cunning strategies to reshape this vast open world into your new empire.
    Not the first time people or companies have told lies to promote their product, reality however soon proves the lie to be what it is, which in this case is fairly obvious, not an MMO.
    Scorchien
  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    edited June 2019
    Just a random note.

    Sweetbread, in addition to referring to the likes of Hawaiian Sweetbread, which is a type of bread, can also refer the thymus or pancreas of an animal (often cows, and lambs, but others too), which is consequently a type of meat.

    Depending on who and where you ask for sweetbread. You can get something very different.

    Just an example from personal experience. :p
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