Never did a story start out like this:
"I went to school everyday in a red 1965 Corvette driven by Christy Brinkley downhill both ways in beautiful sunny weather with the top down."
That just doesn't happen. Stories are made of the hardships overcome, not the easy path taken.
Quality of Life (QoL) can be both good and bad. A UI adjustment that saves wear and tear on wrists and fingers is a good change. An implementation to help players find groups can be good or bad, depending on your desires.
MMORPGs are about playing with other players. NOT forced grouping, mind you, but just being aware and open to other players playing the same game. An LFG feature may be good for players that want to jump on and kill things, but really it detracts from what online gaming is about, or what it offers that single player games can not: Playing with others.
Yes, sometimes in old MMORPGs, players could easily spend 30 to over 60 minutes seeking a group to join. This happened to me often. But instead of sitting on my ass in some big city waiting, I'd run about and DO things like crafting or hunting or banking or questing or socializing. It wasn't wasted time. At times, though, it was a pain in the backside. So was a lot of the game... like dying.
There was (and still is) a lot to complain about in old MMORPGs. But didn't that make the accomplishments more meaningful? Better? Sweeter?
Where do you stand on QoL changes for the MMO genre?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR
Comments
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Most QOL improvements in today's MMO's do not encourage this play style. They automate events so players now just focus on completing "tasks" and checking boxes and not playing the game.
Example, someone gets a quest for 10 bug legs, there are people that can now do literally nothing but chase down 10 bug legs and if they are a rare mob they will spend hours running around a zone single mindedly focused trying to complete the task. Completely burning themselves out, then complaining later.
Instead players should just play the game, they will eventually get the bug legs. I can come up with 10 more examples on play style obsessions that have given us the modern MMO of automation through dungeon finders / auto running to quests / single player focused MMO's / I could go on an on.
Just play the game...
Easy games cannot match that. They may have other attributes, and be worthwhile for other reasons, but not that one.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
There is something about the harder the game, the more satisfying the accomplishments.
PS: We got hit by the Gdmami "love button!" We must be on the right track
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
On the opposite side you have poorly made descriptions that force you to exit the game to understand game mechanics. You also have the false choices for character builds that everyone should avoid.
If I'm being honest with myself I think the bulk of the remembered enjoyment comes from it being new and better and faster ways not being invented yet. Walking to the dungeon entrance to do a run was indeed fun but only the first few times. After a while it was more like a chore. Same with the danger of corpse runs. In Asheron's Call our corpses had items and if you died repeatedly, trying to recover your items the earlier corpses became open for anyone to loot - not to mention that you got progressively weaker with each unsuccessful attempt as more and more of the gear you needed to fight dropped with a corpse... fun times?
Of course the flip side of that is what those dungeon runs today have become: little to no socializing - just speed runs everywhere - and players standing around aimlessly in a convenient town hub just treating the game like an instanced lobby MMO even when it isn't. And death is nothing but a minor inconvenience now usually with self-rez on the spot.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I cringe when Pantheon backers call for no in game maps. I'm in favor of a decent map with pointers showing locations of me and anyone I'm grouped with along with a decent compass.
No need for quest givers or destinations to be put on it, I'm willing to look those up offline if I feel a need to.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'd much rather have an in game map covered with a fog of war.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
In RPG series you may have a second game that get refined and loses some depth for clarity. The 3rd game may more refined but sometimes you get a mix of being back old gameplay mixed with refined.
MMORPG just seem to have industry standards in ways I haven't seen since RTS. UI, questing, type of MMORPG, LFG and etc are uniformed in the genre.
I heard people complain about no lfg on GW2 forum.
I heard people complain about no fast travel on fallen earth forum.
Never the opposite. So I guess that is why developer added those in.
If there are many people unhappy with this things added there should be complaint on the game forum. But I really don't see any.
Obviously it depend on the game. I doubt people will be happy with fast travel in sandbox game which focus on open world pvp.
When players describe an oldschool game by mentioning lack of QoL features as the reasons to why this or that game is good, I sigh deeply. That notion is both extremely narrow and out of context, while at the same time holding a little truth. Think about all the actual QoL features that game have, that has improved the game experience for you, maybe even combined MADE that game great.
What we need to understand is that every single QoL feature can and will have an impact of the entire game dynamics, from subtle things in perception of fun, to balance, to short or long term changesin player behavior. Also how one QoL feature evolve over time, and start working in a completely different way than first intended (group finder is a good example).
What I am gettin at here is that it is not without consequence to add QoL features, but on the other hand lacking QoL does nothing good either, looking at each feature specifically. Only in rare cases does tediousness (lack of a QoL) do anything positive, and when it does it is usually an unrelated sideeffect that just happen outside of any actual design philosophy by the developer, but more like an observation "this is working, lets keep it".
I hope I am being clear, though always a horde to misinterpret My point is that no specific QoL feature can be bad in itself because it always improve the game experience, but the sum of all QoL is a intricate web that makes up the game experience, and even small changes or introduction of QoL can change entire game dynamics. This does not mean we should be stuck in the past just not making QoL features because I am sure we all want better games, but it means that it is important to constantly monitor what dynamics those QoL affect and be aware that games are everchanging if not themselves then through player changes in the way they are played.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I like looking at the reasons behind the changes rather than the change itself. Some players wanted LFG because they didn't want to interact with other players in a game designed around interacting with other players. This may improve that single player's (and certainly others, too) experience, but it lessens the overall game design, itself.
WoW popularized NPCs with punctuation above their heads. A big point of RPGs is to "talk to everyone.", meaning NPCs in single player RPGs. The punctuation was a big QoL improvement for many players, yet lessened the overall game design.
On the other hand, thank God minimaps became a thing! I could never grasp the location coordinate system for crap. -2234.43 by 9230.5433 by 110.21... OK... Which way is north again? I want to go North. Then there will be players who think minimaps destroyed exploration and discovery. I'm not sure if minimaps detracted from the game design. They did have the coordinate system in place. Minimaps actually encouraged me (personally) to explore more because finding my corpse when I inevitably died became less of a chore, and I didn't mind corpse running as a mechanic. Getting lost can be a fun mechanic and I still do, even with minimaps
We just have to look at the overall game design hit, not any one specific player's experience
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
So Sauron crafted the ring himself. Isildur looted it off him. Isildur was killed, but could not be looted because he died in a river. So years later Deagol fished the ring out of the river, but then Smeagol killed Deagol and took the ring and used it for years. By chance it dropped off his pockets and bilbo found it and gave it to Frodo. On Mount Doom Smeagol stole the ring again and jumped into the lava. End of story.
Lots of cool RNG mechanics in this story.
Some examples of the QoL I am thinking of could be .. instead of drag and drop of every single item the QoL could be ctrl/shift-click for fast transfer/selling. Automatic grabbing of components when tradeskilling instead of manually moving every item, having a list of recipes and showing how many would be possible to make with current stock. Showing loot/items as "tradeskill item" and "quest item" so you would know what to do with it, maybe even auto sorting it in separate category bags.
An great example of a bigger feature I think found a perfect balance would be from (oldschool) WoW, where two players could summon others to a dungeon .. it saved time, but at the same time didn't remove meaningful travel.
An example of how QoL changes entire dynamic of a game could be Everquest progression servers. Personally I don't miss corpse runs one bit, not having maps, old tradeskill system, etc and the newest client QoL is far superior to old clients... but together with how damage taken and dealt are make much easier (is that QoL?), the entire dynamics have changed and the game is just different because of that while still being mostly the same mechanic wise.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Speaking from experience playing CoH, this claim people make about old MMORPGs and having to spam LFG for hours are definitely personal problems for those players. I can't recall a single time I was logged into CoH that a player around my level didn't advertise they were starting a group or looking for more. Surprise surprise: the groups I've been in there have spoken more in the short time I've been playing it again than in any of the LFG-made groups I played in WoW.
It's almost like such QoL can literally train players to view other players a certain way, affecting the entire community of the game. Crazy!
The problem now is, entitlements (in this case, the game finding eligible players to group with and auto-porting you all together), once given, are suicide to then try and take away. In that sense, QoL are literally Pandora boxes, complete with the temptation to open them.
I see QoL as more of a "comfort or enjoyment thing." Your looting example was a great example. The "features" in my examples are there in the game: grouping with others; quests/talking to NPCs; mapping. The QoL comes in in the presentation of those features. The punctuation above NPC's heads wasn't a new feature, it just told players which NPCs had quests for them. LFG didn't add grouping, it made finding a group easier. Minimaps did not add location finding, it made it easier. Auction Houses would be another example. They didn't "add" anything to the game, they just made it easier.
I also didn't mind the 2 group members summon the others for dungeon runs in WoW. It was a nice compromise where some work/tedium had to be endured
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR