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MMO with no leveling

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,277
    edited May 2019


     I like lore making sense (world threat level creatures die in 1 hit but generic higher level wolf from new expansion can one shot me).  I like being able to play with who I want without level segregation.
    That's not really lore, just logic.

    A wolf should only be "so strong."

    Lord of the Rings online has this issue. Here is a bird that's dangerous. x amount of levels later, here is a bird that's even MORE dangerous. What? You are now 10 levels higher? Then here's ANOTHER bird!


    MendelAlBQuirkyAmaranthar



  • foxgirlfoxgirl Member UncommonPosts: 209
    syltmacka said:
    makes no sence with no reward system. a bunch of donkeys without carrots, nope.
    Pavlov would be pleased by your progress.
    UngoodVermillion_RaventhalAmarantharbcbully
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,751
    At some point, an MMORPG with no leveling simply becomes an RTS game.  RPG and leveling have long been companions, as leveling is one of the cornerstones of progression.  Progression is one element that helps people to connect with their characters.  Really, who identifies with 'third axeman from the left'?  I know I'd rather play 'Krodor Trollbane, Axeman of the Guards who is deathly afraid of spiders'.



    AlBQuirkyGdemamiAmaranthar

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • TheHiveLeaderTheHiveLeader Video MaestroMember RarePosts: 234
    Leveling in modern MMOs can be done so quickly, they're basically level-less as is.
    blastermasteriixviiiixanemoAlBQuirkyGdemamiSteelhelmAmatheArterius
  • AenghasAenghas Member UncommonPosts: 90
    It could definitely work. Levels and gear caps are ultimately just ways to introduce time-sinks to a game. Admittedly time-sinks are necessary for mmo's because a developer can't churn out content at the same speed players can play it.

    We just need a developer to find a way to add time-sinks to a game that are still as engaging as the intermittent reward cycle of vertical progression.

    Clearly a game with no vertical progression wouldn't be for everyone. As shown in some of the responses here some personality types respond best to that type of system. I think people who would find it most engaging would have shifted their expectations or be willing to. I think a desire to explore systems and the game world would probably be the main motivation for playing.
    Gdemami
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,098
    Mendel said:
    At some point, an MMORPG with no leveling simply becomes an RTS game.  RPG and leveling have long been companions, as leveling is one of the cornerstones of progression.  Progression is one element that helps people to connect with their characters.  Really, who identifies with 'third axeman from the left'?  I know I'd rather play 'Krodor Trollbane, Axeman of the Guards who is deathly afraid of spiders'.



    You can progress without levels because in many cases levels mean nothing. Like I said before there are very few times you fight outside of your level range.  Either its base line challenge all levels or someone dies in one hit.  

    If you had a game where things where content divided by quest chains to move on to the next.  No levels at all.  Everything beyond you quest chain area killed you and everything below you one shot.  You wouldn't play any different.  That's because it's all a numbers game.

    The concept of no levels can be done through alternative means of leveling like skills or horizontal progression that work almost like action adventures.  You get new abilities and powers through quest and gear as you play.  You just don't get power levels over 9000.

    For example you get warrior armor that makes you harder to kill or assasin armor that makes you harder too see.  You get items that allow you go access areas previously off limits like a weightless ring that allows you to go to the cloud realm.  

    You also can have right of passages quest for classes.  Instead of getting fireball at level 12 you do a class quest that you earn the right to cast fireball and learn when to use it.  

    While this doesnt have to happen it usually does... challenge is skill based because there are little options to do otherwise.  You will have weak creatures and strong ones.  There are no levels to decide.  Raid level content would always be raid level content.

    Your character will progress along with your skill to make the challenge a lot easier.  You will not be immortal to the 900 pound Ogre swinging a club just because you leveled up.  You may be able to easily dodge slow attacks and counter with abilities but you would die if AFK or extremely sloppy.
    Gdemami
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,098
    jusomdude said:
    Could this work? Like if a player was placed in the world at max level and gear was all cosmetic. Personally tired of leveling in MMOs and would rather have a game with MMO like combat where I can log in and PvP without being stuck behind XP, and or, gear walls walls every time I wanna try something new. Leveling really doesn't do much for me. I don't like my character anymore just because I leveled them.

    I think it would be cool to have an open world MMO with no leveling. Just log in and do what you want without worrying about power levels.
    They have those already. They're called lobby games.
    Honestly, you can do 95% of themepark games in co-op RPG.  Does that mean you should play co-op RPG?
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,966
    I prefer to level.  It slowly introduces you to your skills and abilities.  I've left games for years and had to create a new character to help remember the basics.  

    Some games do offer top level characters included with expansions or for sale in a cash shop but the problem is often like jumping into the deep end of the pool and having to learn what all your skills and abilities are suppose to do.

    So even without levels you would still have to learn and practice your skills from the ground up.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,589
    Skills getting stronger are levels. Aquiring  new skills is a form of leveling (getting 1 then 2 then 3...). Gear making you stronger is a level.
    SovrathAlBQuirkyAmarantharAmathe
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • AenghasAenghas Member UncommonPosts: 90
    I prefer to level.  It slowly introduces you to your skills and abilities.  I've left games for years and had to create a new character to help remember the basics.  

    Some games do offer top level characters included with expansions or for sale in a cash shop but the problem is often like jumping into the deep end of the pool and having to learn what all your skills and abilities are suppose to do.

    So even without levels you would still have to learn and practice your skills from the ground up.
    Optional tutorials could fix some of those concerns maybe. Without levels or gear scores there would be no 'max level' characters for a game to sell people or give away so the main issue would just be becoming familiar with an avatar you haven't played in a while.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,347
    edited May 2019
    Arterius said:
    I never played it but isnt Secret World toted as a MMO with no leveling 
    No. There is an illusion of no-leveling, but you have to fill the exp bar to progress your character and get skillpoints. You just don't see the "levels".

    EDIT: DMKano beat me to it.
    Octagon7711KyleranAmatheArterius




  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,098
    edited May 2019
    Skills getting stronger are levels. Aquiring  new skills is a form of leveling (getting 1 then 2 then 3...). Gear making you stronger is a level.
    Not the same thing.  If 3 newbies beat on you at 15 damage each and you have the same 100 hp from the start you can die.  If new has 40 hp and hits for 20 while you have 20 million hp and only get 1 damage per hit... it is a big difference
    Gdemami
  • jusomdudejusomdude Member RarePosts: 2,706
    edited May 2019
    There would still be rewards like mounts, pets, cosmetic gear, maybe temp buffs, just no epeen massaging rewards like bigger numbers. Imagine if you had a pool of abilities and attributes you could choose from and those made your character. That way you still get to customize your character, just without the wasted bar filling time.

    Vast power gaps don't belong in games with PvP.
    Steelhelm
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,589
    Skills getting stronger are levels. Aquiring  new skills is a form of leveling (getting 1 then 2 then 3...). Gear making you stronger is a level.
    Not the same thing.  If 3 newbies beat on you at 15 damage each and you have the same 100 hp from the start you can die.  If new has 40 hp and hits for 20 while you have 20 million hp and only get 1 damage per hit... it is a big difference
    The OP said no leveling at all of any kind
    AlBQuirky
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,139
    Sounds like the perfect MMO for today gamer......
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,315
    Why arent all you No Level people playing Second life ... there is your game with no levels , it also has No Fun
    gunklacker
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,492
    Isn't no leveling at all in a multiplayer setting basically what battle royal is?
    AlBQuirky
  • jusomdudejusomdude Member RarePosts: 2,706
    Scorchien said:
    Why arent all you No Level people playing Second life ... there is your game with no levels , it also has No Fun
    Probably because second life also has no focused gameplay... it's more of a 3D chatroom
    Amaranthar
  • jusomdudejusomdude Member RarePosts: 2,706
    Isn't no leveling at all in a multiplayer setting basically what battle royal is?
    That's more of what I was thinking but BR games have no ability customization and are still loot based. Whoever finds the best guns/ammo/shields has a pretty good advantage.
    Gdemami
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,098
    Scorchien said:
    Why arent all you No Level people playing Second life ... there is your game with no levels , it also has No Fun
    Why don't you drop MMORPG for Anthem, Division and Destiny.  They are totally the same thing.
    MMOExposed
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,098
    Isn't no leveling at all in a multiplayer setting basically what battle royal is?
    BR is a match.  What is the connection between BR and a MMORPG? I am not sure. Because it lacks levels it would lack content, persistent world and other trappings of MMORPG?  Is it a limited understanding of the concept levelless MMORPG?  Not trying to be rude but it is a drastic left field suggestion.  Just because it lacks levels it would 
    Gdemami
  • SteelhelmSteelhelm Member UncommonPosts: 332
    edited May 2019
    MMOs need one of the two things at minimum: leveling or kingdom building
    sometimes just fine adventure might compensate for these but it's not sustainable in the long run by itself imo
    1000 vs1000 players easily becomes an mmo battleground but not an MMORPG
    AlBQuirky
    Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,063
    jusomdude said:

    There would still be rewards like mounts, pets, cosmetic gear, maybe temp buffs, just no epeen massaging rewards like bigger numbers. Imagine if you had a pool of abilities and attributes you could choose from and those made your character. That way you still get to customize your character, just without the wasted bar filling time.

    Vast power gaps don't belong in games with PvP.
    So I complete a quest, kill 100 orcs, and run a dungeon, all to get a foldable beach chair, a colorful umbrella, and a hacky sac ball? 

    Pass.
    GdemamiKyleran

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,098
    Amathe said:
    jusomdude said:

    There would still be rewards like mounts, pets, cosmetic gear, maybe temp buffs, just no epeen massaging rewards like bigger numbers. Imagine if you had a pool of abilities and attributes you could choose from and those made your character. That way you still get to customize your character, just without the wasted bar filling time.

    Vast power gaps don't belong in games with PvP.
    So I complete a quest, kill 100 orcs, and run a dungeon, all to get a foldable beach chair, a colorful umbrella, and a hacky sac ball? 

    Pass.
    Sounds like ever MMORPG since WoW.

    Gdemami
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,277
    Amathe said:
    jusomdude said:

    There would still be rewards like mounts, pets, cosmetic gear, maybe temp buffs, just no epeen massaging rewards like bigger numbers. Imagine if you had a pool of abilities and attributes you could choose from and those made your character. That way you still get to customize your character, just without the wasted bar filling time.

    Vast power gaps don't belong in games with PvP.
    So I complete a quest, kill 100 orcs, and run a dungeon, all to get a foldable beach chair, a colorful umbrella, and a hacky sac ball? 

    Pass.
    I imagine you wouldn't be killing 100 orcs in this example.





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