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(Insert depressing, state of the MMO title)

Maximus_LacyMaximus_Lacy Member UncommonPosts: 27
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
As a very, very new member to these forums I have come to notice a trend in which many feel a strong desire, and even longing for a breakthrough MMORPG.  There are a lot of discussions containing titles saying "I  miss" and "My dream" and "Once upon a time", and it really makes me sad seeing what seems to be a bleak future for MMOs.  I am not a hardcore MMO'er and I live a busy life, but the fact is that ever year over the past ten I have been coming back to these communities hoping to find, like many others, what I desire:  the next big thing.

So what is it?  Has the MMO community deteriorated and game developers don't see as many dollar signs?  Nah, that can't be it as there still seems to be plenty of studios trying to make the next great MMO...  Is WoW too much of a behemoth (especially with Classic coming) that keeps any other game from gaining traction?  Do game developers just suck?  Do MMO gamers expect too much?  It just seems to me that there are so many great examples of systems within games that either work, or don't work, to set blueprints for MMOs to come..  

As I said, I am not a hardcore gamer, but I would absolutely come back for the right game.  I played SWG pre-CU when I was 13 years old, and since I have been hoping for a new great game.  And please, this is not meant to come off as an opinion piece but rather an open discussion, so please drop your two cents.   :)
"The end and object of conquest is to avoid doing the same thing as the conquered." - Alexander III of Macedon
HyperpsycrowScot
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Comments

  • Maximus_LacyMaximus_Lacy Member UncommonPosts: 27
    Mars_Orbital said:
    As someone who has been around for almost 10 years at these forums, you really shouldn't make claims like this without making a claim like this. The claim thatis being made is one of the claims that was made  from a day of that claim. A lot of us  have seen these types of claims before, several times, and they are barely reliable claims because one doesn't know the history of which the claim is founded. 

    So when pulling up a cliam, read the claim and insert a small bit of relation to such claim as that claim is unsupported do to the lack of claims history of the claim that is here forth and in claimant. 

    If the claim is baseless do to the history ratio of a 9 post claim, here in and so forth from now in here and now will be dissolved as the claim makes no real directive of such claim being made.

    Have a nice day .
    Ah yes, I should've known the 9 posts would come into question.  Appreciate the substance in your post. 
    "The end and object of conquest is to avoid doing the same thing as the conquered." - Alexander III of Macedon
  • Maximus_LacyMaximus_Lacy Member UncommonPosts: 27
    Pong set the stander almost as much as Joust did.

    But that's fair, and maybe for some like myself, we had "the one that got away" and can never find another game good enough to jump both feet in with.
    Hatefull
    "The end and object of conquest is to avoid doing the same thing as the conquered." - Alexander III of Macedon
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,530
    Insert some stalwart defence of the games I love.
    Maximus_LacyKyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • Maximus_LacyMaximus_Lacy Member UncommonPosts: 27
    Ungood said:
    Insert some stalwart defence of the games I love.
    Please do!
    "The end and object of conquest is to avoid doing the same thing as the conquered." - Alexander III of Macedon
  • Maximus_LacyMaximus_Lacy Member UncommonPosts: 27
    Look, perhaps I come off as ignorant to the state of things in the community, but this just seems to be something i have noticed - NOT just back a couple pages - but over the years.  Every time I come back to check on what's happening with new MMOs, I see these same feelings floating in the forums.  Are these just one-off bad apples and negative Nancy's, or is there actual basis to these claims?
    "The end and object of conquest is to avoid doing the same thing as the conquered." - Alexander III of Macedon
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,351
    I don't want the next big thing that everyone else likes.  I just want a game that I like, and for it to have enough player support that they keep it running.  That's a lot easier to come by than a game that tons of other people like and that I also like.
    SovrathConstantineMerusAlBQuirkyGorwePhaserlightKyleran
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,502
    edited May 2019
    Look, perhaps I come off as ignorant to the state of things in the community, but this just seems to be something i have noticed - NOT just back a couple pages - but over the years.  Every time I come back to check on what's happening with new MMOs, I see these same feelings floating in the forums.  Are these just one-off bad apples and negative Nancy's, or is there actual basis to these claims?
    Well, you have a few things working here.

    You have the "Tinhats" as I call them. These people are in no way gamers, with the exception of the one game they personally like, nothing else out there is real. It is either a scam, vaporware, and in some way the developer is trying to steal your thoughts.

    You have the "SWG" refugees. This is my category and while I realize I am being unrealistic, I am waiting for something like SWG (preferably SWG II, like that will ever happen) to grab me and keep me engaged like SWG did. I realize that there are in fact good games out there, and I play some...a lot of them really on a rotational basis. Game Hobo if you will. Anyway, I am generally grumpy and pretty much hate everything, not SWG pre-CU.

    Then you have White Knights. They will fight to the death (and beyond) to defend their beloved corner of the MMO genre. No matter how sales look, what release state it is in, etc no real facts matter, it is simply going to be the best game ever released...until two weeks after when it flops.

    Troll. Need no explanation. Do not feed them.

    The Insiders. These guys, I love reading their "inside information" that I just read on Reddit 20 minutes ago. Or better yet, watching the actual industry debunk their BS. They are mostly harmless and very entertaining.

    I think everyone on these boards is just tired. tired of hoping that some indy developer or even a triple-A dev will just finish a damn game that does not require DLC to complete, and that just gets close to delivering what they advertise. I dunno man, the whole place seems...jaded.

    Also, post count means absolutely nothing. I have been on these forums since 2004, and compared to the never shut ups around here, I have very few posts.
    Post edited by Hatefull on
    Maximus_Lacy

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • Maximus_LacyMaximus_Lacy Member UncommonPosts: 27
    ^ @Hatefull I am sure I fall under the SWG refugee category, as yes, nothing has ever lived up to my first MMO (although Diablo II Secret Cow level grinding and SOJ stacking was pretty great! ;) )

    I will say, in regards to your second to last paragraph, it does seem many of the MMOs I have followed over the years seem to fizzle out during developmental stages or just never quite set themselves apart from the pack.  Personally, I have been following Ashes of Creation development closely and they at least have made indications of using systems from SWG (most importantly crafting), so maybe there's hope after all, because like you said, I am tired of coming back and leaving disappointed.
    "The end and object of conquest is to avoid doing the same thing as the conquered." - Alexander III of Macedon
  • Maximus_LacyMaximus_Lacy Member UncommonPosts: 27
    Hatefull said:
    Also, post count means absolutely nothing. I have been on these forums since 2004, and compared to the never shut ups around here, I have very few posts.
    And this is absolutely false, I just achieved green lettering status after my 10th post, so it clearly means something. 
    Kyleran
    "The end and object of conquest is to avoid doing the same thing as the conquered." - Alexander III of Macedon
  • WarWitchWarWitch Member UncommonPosts: 351
    SWG I miss the, my love. 

    Maby try BDO but keep in mind heavy cash shop and around 2 years to get good and in bod it's only about the gear. Gear 10x skill 1x. 

    Theirs nothing coming out that will have the depth of swg, crafting housing malls buffs that last almost 4 hours camping, taming, viable non combat classes and 2 and1/2 of any combination of classes in the game with like 33 classes total I think it was.

    And Grandma the master Doc baking cookies buffing the bounty hunters to go out and perma kill jedi.

  • ErevusErevus Member UncommonPosts: 135
    Just give me an open world sandbox monthly fee MMO without cash shops, with no hackers, without mindless/pointless grind, without forced PvP, with exceptional unreal 4 engine graphics and animation, with innovative UI and AI, with a great lore and a really immersive story, without a toxic community and i'll sub 4 life.
    FFS it's 2019 I don't think I ask too much.
    Do I :#
    Gdemami
    "Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom. (Death)”
    ― Terry Pratchett,


  • Maximus_LacyMaximus_Lacy Member UncommonPosts: 27
    DMKano said:
    My advice OP - realize that all of those threads are created by the same poster - Deleted. 

    ;)
    Of course I didn’t go back and check those posts to see who the OP is, why would I do that??  B)
    "The end and object of conquest is to avoid doing the same thing as the conquered." - Alexander III of Macedon
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    edited May 2019
    Quizzical said:
    I don't want the next big thing that everyone else likes.  I just want a game that I like, and for it to have enough player support that they keep it running.  That's a lot easier to come by than a game that tons of other people like and that I also like.
    This is me, in a nutshell. I don't want "the next BIG MMO", just one that I enjoy with like minded players (RPG types instead of hyper min/max types) that can keep the MMORPG going, but probably not making the big bucks.

    To the OP:
    Many players are pleased with the state of MMOs right now. Lots of F2P titles with lots of game jumping available.

    Many other players are disenfranchised older MMORPG players that feel "left in the dust" as MMOs took a whole different direction than many of us thought they might, back in the day. Don't believe us old farts. The "state of MMOs" is in a grand state, for businesses. With unlimited spending in the cash shops, MMOs are making more big bucks now than ever before. That' why us old farts see doom and gloom, because as long as big bucks are being made, nothing will change.

    PS: Welcome to the boards!
    Hatefull

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,502
    Maximus_Lacy said:
    Hatefull said:
    Also, post count means absolutely nothing. I have been on these forums since 2004, and compared to the never shut ups around here, I have very few posts.
    And this is absolutely false, I just achieved green lettering status after my 10th post, so it clearly means something. 
    lol, only if you need an ego boost, which is whatever.
    Maximus_Lacy

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,605
    You can try the next generation of online RPG game (pokemon go).  
  • Maximus_LacyMaximus_Lacy Member UncommonPosts: 27
    SWG refugee myself... When the Crowfall kick starter went live, they claimed their crafting/gathering system was based on SWG's.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  There was hope, but that was quickly dashed.  EA's time with SWTOR is rumored to be coming to an end. Maybe, just maybe, we will get a SWG 2.0  After all, SWG had the biggest concurrent subscriber MMORPG before WoW came along...
    Not sure if you follow Ashes of Creation at all, but this is a quote from their lead game designer,:

    “I think Star Wars Galaxies had a great crafting system... The resource gathering and the crafting system altogether as a whole really was I think way beyond its time. That's kind of the direction we want to go, where there's choices to be made in the crafting system and those choices change what you end up with... It's not just about doing X recipe to get Y item. You know, there's actually thought involved in it and there is you know a market to be captured based on those decisions.”  - Jeffrey Bard 

    Hopefully this game follows through on all of their promises. 
    Hatefull
    "The end and object of conquest is to avoid doing the same thing as the conquered." - Alexander III of Macedon
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,019
    I know when women hang out long enough together they all get on the same cycle, so maybe that's what's happened to us mentally.

    Gut OuT!
    SovrathHyperpsycrowMaximus_LacyVermillion_RaventhalJeffSpicoliAlBQuirkyAmaranthar

    What, me worry?

  • HyperpsycrowHyperpsycrow Member RarePosts: 913
    Gutlard said:
    I know when women hang out long enough together they all get on the same cycle, so maybe that's what's happened to us mentally.

    Gut OuT!


    Why do you know stuff like that :p




  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,903
    I think most are way too negative.   And there a few ways of looking at it.
    ____________

    If you can only play AAA games for whatever reason there is good news for you in the MMORPG space.   Essentially Live Service and Games as a Service games need to compete with each on more than just fulfilling a new Service Like niche/genre.   And the way to do that is to be more MMORPG like.  For instance looking at Anthem you saw them rush to try and create their uninstanced town where you saw other players just before release.   They're trying desperately to live the old MMORPG style releases where they have major raid updates every quarter and smaller releases between that.   They keep promising to add a skill tree.    And they have more promises of doing better with guilds and friends lists (considering this is pretty much a failed game, it's pretty safe to say a game that's intended to succeed will be out the gate to be more MMORPG like on day one, instead of trying to quickly add those features to  stem player loss).     It's also worth mentioning that cosmetics are more valuable to a player in a game that has less instancing,  So if publishers want to monetize and lootbox up those cosmetics they'll see a game with less instancing as a financial choice (ease/value of sales vs. server costs).
    ___________

    On the smaller side you have games like Screeps that have teams of 2-3 full time developers and maybe a dozen contractors once in a while.    And this is a game that is living that old MMO dream of 10,000 NPCs all doing their own thing, and productive things at that like building/maintain towns, attacking those towns, or attacking them.    And doing it 24/7


    At even smaller scale you have LOTS of projects like RainingChain that are almost-ish solo.    Also worth mentioning that the project is open source, and has an interesting technical YouTube channel (inactive now).
    ____________

    Then on the medium size you're starting to see smaller dev projects start to be touchable like CrowFall and Worlds Adrift.   10 years ago I would have never thought that would be a thing for small-er-ish teams.

    Even failures like Chronicles of Elyria or Star Citizen go a long way towards letting Publishers know that there are still marks to be had in the MMO genre, and that collectively they have quite a bit of money at that.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    edited May 2019
    Hatefull said:
    Also, post count means absolutely nothing. I have been on these forums since 2004, and compared to the never shut ups around here, I have very few posts.
    And this is absolutely false, I just achieved green lettering status after my 10th post, so it clearly means something. 
    That is actually based on responses to your posts, not the number or amount. If you go to your own account page (click on your name on the left there), you will see a point system. Specific responses (agree, lol, insightful...) give specific points. Then there are different "titles", as you've seen.

    Just thought I'd point that out, being new and all ;)
    Maximus_Lacy

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,751
    Let's face it, mobile killed the MMO as we knew it.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,498
    edited May 2019
    Erevus said:
    Just give me an open world sandbox monthly fee MMO without cash shops, with no hackers, without mindless/pointless grind, without forced PvP, with exceptional unreal 4 engine graphics and animation, with innovative UI and AI, with a great lore and a really immersive story, without a toxic community and i'll sub 4 life.
    FFS it's 2019 I don't think I ask too much.
    Do I :#
    You are more likely to see a RL unicorn
    ;)

    AlBQuirky

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    I haven't played MMO's much in the last few years, there's nothing that really interests me.

    The two games that I'm following (Seed and Dual Universe) won't be playable for a few years yet, but I'm enjoying single-player titles far too much to care about that wait, lol

    If those two prospects don't turn out to be any good, I'll just shrug and keep enjoying SPG and small player-run servers like Empyrion or SE or Conan...
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,498
    edited May 2019
    Let's face it, mobile killed the MMO as we knew it.
    Perfect lead in, thanks. Awesome video by the Limousines.


    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,498
    AlBQuirky said:
    Hatefull said:
    Also, post count means absolutely nothing. I have been on these forums since 2004, and compared to the never shut ups around here, I have very few posts.
    And this is absolutely false, I just achieved green lettering status after my 10th post, so it clearly means something. 
    That is actually based on responses to your posts, not the number or amount. If you go to your own account page (click on your name on the left there), you will see a point system. Specific responses (agree, lol, insightful...) give specific points. Then there are different "titles", as you've seen.

    Just thought I'd point that out, being new and all ;)
    Just get @Gdemami to LOL all your posts,  you'll be Orange in no time.

    ;)
    AlBQuirkyAmaranthar

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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