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The great F2P problem.

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,789
When someone logs in for free and sees the world empty, they will not pay for anything.  It doesn't matter how good of a deal it is. It doesn't help when a base game is "easy and mindless" this makes it boring.... After 3 hours, uninstall !


Now that I have the main topic out of the way, let me explain:
Someone resurrected a post I made over a year ago on the Lotro forum.  The topic goes off on different paths such as Value packs and how to get the most for your money.  It also suggest joining one of the many high end Guilds. 

I SAY NO !.... This goes for all F2P



-It has nothing to do with value !
-It has everything to do with grabbing your attention !

A F2P game will not grab anyones attention.  Joining a high end guild will never help the situation. 


A common misconception:
Your all alone in a boring easy game at level 10.  Solution, join a Guild and they all come to your aid and make the game fun....This doesn't happen EVER !... Your still all alone in a boring, easy game.  It doesn't matter how outgoing your personality is.

Want prof ?
Log into Lotro or ANY F2P GAME and see what happens.


Lets not kid our selfs.... mmorpgs are dead for now :( 
GdemamiMaurgrimCaffynatedmmolouDarkestOverlordCadiz
«13

Comments

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,970
    You know how Chinese and other Asia country WOW work ? You come to nearby internet cafe and buy hours game card

    You know why modern P2P failed  ? because they asking for ********** credit card and ask for monthly price instead of give out more options

    P2P is not wrong . The problem is the people who run it with ********* pride that ruined everything .

    It like a local cake baker forced sell whole cake to people who only need a slice , and while he sell well in his local , he can't sell them to the people outside of his search , because there aren't many people willing to walk for hours to buy a cake that can buy in his nearby local .

    Gdemami
  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,462
    iixviiiix said:
    You know how Chinese and other Asia country WOW work ? You come to nearby internet cafe and buy hours game card

    You know why modern P2P failed  ? because they asking for ********** credit card and ask for monthly price instead of give out more options

    P2P is not wrong . The problem is the people who run it with ********* pride that ruined everything .

    It like a local cake baker forced sell whole cake to people who only need a slice , and while he sell well in his local , he can't sell them to the people outside of his search , because there aren't many people willing to walk for hours to buy a cake that can buy in his nearby local .


    The problem there is the ideal customer for a P2P is someone who never plays, but pays every month.  If they charged by the hour they would lose that market -- at least that was their thinking.


    Gdemamiiixviiiix
  • LithuanianLithuanian Member UncommonPosts: 397
    A F2P game will not grab anyones attention.  Joining a high end guild will never help the situation. 
    One of greatest logical phalacies: generalization.
    All Russians drink vodka heavily.
    All Germans are perfectionists.
    All Japanese like hentai/anime.
    All [enter nation] vote for our party, because  other parties are just trash.
    F2P games get attention. P2P games are regaining attention.

    The only problem I see in any older game - starter territories. Let us say, lvl.1-7 village. Newbies start here, explore local forest, kill 10 rats, get basic equipment, reach lvl.8, go further...almost never to return.
    In Istaria I used to go to New Trismus, stand there, offering help to new players. In Lotro - just ride to Barrows near Bree, see if any player needs help against those hard to kill lvl.20 barghests. Or just ask in World chat: "Anybody needs help with questing?".

    Common misconception: you are lvl.10, just left Noob Village, now on your way in adult lands. Forests, monsters, quests, deeds, tons of equipment and crafting. Which armour to choose, what (if any) ranged weapon to use, which spell to research - you have little ideas. And yes, too little noobs like you around.
    Solution 1: this game sucks, f2p sucks, world sucks, I am leaving!
    Solution 2: join guild that would explain how things work, like: at lvl.9 pick Rose Guard armour, keep untill lvl.12; get Flaming crossbow and swap for Steel bow when you get Steel bow; just do not go to Grumpy Forest, because monsters here are lvl.19 and would one-shot you - instead, go to Stinky Swamp, lots of monsters to kill, nice drops from them.

    OP thinks being in a guild means being alone. Depends on player: you may not log to guild chat, stand in some corner. Or you may try to ask, to joke - to socialize, in short. There are global chats - be whatever you want to. Roleplaying person or just grumpy person, kind to all or very unfriendly, even a famous chat troll (ask in Laurelin about Roth...).

    And returning to "empty starter lands" - yes, most games may have this problem, this problem should be solved by (possibly) having mentoring or just creating a high lvl dungeons in starter lands or even rare resources spawning precisely here.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,174
    What you call a problem - has been a solution for 100s of millions of players for years.
    NasaRobsolf
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,753
    edited May 15
    MMORPGs were always going to face stiff competition as other games moved into the multiplayer market and indeed new genres were invented for that market. But once MMOs adopted the cash shop they had an albatross around their neck that they carry to this day. The irony is that GaaS, that bastard child of the Cash Shop will be coming to everything online, once that happens the problems a cash shop bring will be throughout online gaming. We are already well on the way there, your game may not be a GaaS yet but if its revenue method has many elements from cash shops so it is well on its way.

    Without a cash shop we could not have F2P, which in of itself is a separate the issue. Take Fortnite, you can have a F2P game that only sells outfits. Now that may not last, in fact I find it hard to believe that in another year or twos time that's all it will have. But it goes to show F2P is a separate issue to the cash shop and your up and coming game as a service. My preference would be P2P, a reasonable monthly fee, which in turn means you don't get the here today gone tomorrow butterfly players or at the very least B2P. But that is for different reasons, it really helps in building communities and having decent players and guilds.

    To surmise, P2P without a cash shop is a set up which creates best practise, if you don't have a cash shop you can't put dodgy elements into it. But F2P is a separate issue, it can work in some games that are bite sized, but I doubt it will ever work without huge issues in a MMORPG.
    Gdemami

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  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,487
    edited May 15
    Scot said:
    MMORPGs were always going to face stiff competition as other games moved into the multiplayer market and indeed new genres were invented for that market. But once MMOs adopted the cash shop they had an albatross around their neck that they carry to this day. The irony is that GaaS, that bastard child of the Cash Shop will be coming to everything online, once that happens the problems a cash shop bring will be throughout online gaming. We are already well on the way there, your game may not be a GaaS yet but if its revenue method has many elements from cash shops so it is well on its way.

    Without a cash shop we could not have F2P, which in of itself is a separate the issue. Take Fortnite, you can have a F2P game that only sells outfits. Now that may not last, in fact I find it hard to believe that in another year or twos time that's all it will have. But it goes to show F2P is a separate issue to the cash shop and your up and coming game as a service. My preference would be P2P, a reasonable monthly fee, which in turn means you don't get the here today gone tomorrow butterfly players or at the very least B2P. But that is for different reasons, it really helps in building communities and having decent players and guilds.

    To surmise, P2P without a cash shop is a set up which creates best practise, if you don't have a cash shop you can't put dodgy elements into it. But F2P is a separate issue, it can work in some games that are bite sized, but I doubt it will ever work without huge issues in a MMORPG.
    I'd say that's kind of false, mainly depending on the mmorpg itself. The main thing about mmorpgs today is that there is just vaniety rewards regardless of what you do. WoW, clearing a mythic dungeon really just gets you a 100% drop chance mount that chances to .1% when the next raid tier comes out. Gear? Gear is too easy to get and given how wf/tf work in that game, you can just spam a heroic raid with a chance of getting a better mythic tier piece with a quarter of the effort. Couple this with the fact that outside of mythic raiding or pushing a key past 10(15 in legion), the gear is useless (and pushing a key past that is useless too since rewards cap).

    I say its false because if you look at how Tera Online monetizes, its pretty fair even though they pretty much do the exact same in terms of progression as say wow. A lot of people see things being added to their cashshop, in particular their premium without realizing that you can easily get it with gold on the AH. This isn't re-inventing the wheel, but when you actually play the game you realize that it just becomes easier to make more static gold in the game without really relying on the AH the better you gear your character. As for why that game still fails, its just poorly optimized and the endgame is way to weak. You go from dungeon set to dungeon set as your ilvl increases farming out mats over and over to upgrade.

    So ultimately, it depends on the driving force of the mmorpg. I'll agree with you that games that are more centered around burst play (mobas/brs/etc) can do F2P a lot easier, but there are some mmorpgs that can monetize it decently as well as long as you're able to see through the illusion of progression most of these mmorpgs have. Progression in most mmorpgs is about getting to a point faster than others, not actually being able to obtain more power since regardless of how you play, everyone is still kept within a certain range of each to prevent people getting too far ahead/behind one another.
    Scot
  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,748
    You know you could replace F2P with any type of MMO in that post.    Sub/P2W/B2P/whatever and it would still work.
    AmarantharTheocritus

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    You can just subscribe to lotro and it is no longer f2p...  It is more of a premium game isn't it?

    Beside the game was a subscription game.  So weather the game is f2p or subscription don't matter.  The game is probably more dead when it is subscription base.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,753
    edited May 15
    Albatroes said:
    Scot said:
    MMORPGs were always going to face stiff competition as other games moved into the multiplayer market and indeed new genres were invented for that market. But once MMOs adopted the cash shop they had an albatross around their neck that they carry to this day. The irony is that GaaS, that bastard child of the Cash Shop will be coming to everything online, once that happens the problems a cash shop bring will be throughout online gaming. We are already well on the way there, your game may not be a GaaS yet but if its revenue method has many elements from cash shops so it is well on its way.

    Without a cash shop we could not have F2P, which in of itself is a separate the issue. Take Fortnite, you can have a F2P game that only sells outfits. Now that may not last, in fact I find it hard to believe that in another year or twos time that's all it will have. But it goes to show F2P is a separate issue to the cash shop and your up and coming game as a service. My preference would be P2P, a reasonable monthly fee, which in turn means you don't get the here today gone tomorrow butterfly players or at the very least B2P. But that is for different reasons, it really helps in building communities and having decent players and guilds.

    To surmise, P2P without a cash shop is a set up which creates best practise, if you don't have a cash shop you can't put dodgy elements into it. But F2P is a separate issue, it can work in some games that are bite sized, but I doubt it will ever work without huge issues in a MMORPG.
    I'd say that's kind of false, mainly depending on the mmorpg itself. The main thing about mmorpgs today is that there is just vaniety rewards regardless of what you do. WoW, clearing a mythic dungeon really just gets you a 100% drop chance mount that chances to .1% when the next raid tier comes out. Gear? Gear is too easy to get and given how wf/tf work in that game, you can just spam a heroic raid with a chance of getting a better mythic tier piece with a quarter of the effort. Couple this with the fact that outside of mythic raiding or pushing a key past 10(15 in legion), the gear is useless (and pushing a key past that is useless too since rewards cap).

    I say its false because if you look at how Tera Online monetizes, its pretty fair even though they pretty much do the exact same in terms of progression as say wow. A lot of people see things being added to their cashshop, in particular their premium without realizing that you can easily get it with gold on the AH. This isn't re-inventing the wheel, but when you actually play the game you realize that it just becomes easier to make more static gold in the game without really relying on the AH the better you gear your character. As for why that game still fails, its just poorly optimized and the endgame is way to weak. You go from dungeon set to dungeon set as your ilvl increases farming out mats over and over to upgrade.

    So ultimately, it depends on the driving force of the mmorpg. I'll agree with you that games that are more centered around burst play (mobas/brs/etc) can do F2P a lot easier, but there are some mmorpgs that can monetize it decently as well as long as you're able to see through the illusion of progression most of these mmorpgs have. Progression in most mmorpgs is about getting to a point faster than others, not actually being able to obtain more power since regardless of how you play, everyone is still kept within a certain range of each to prevent people getting too far ahead/behind one another.
    I agree some games do cash shop or cash shops plus F2P better than others. It is a sliding scale, once you have a cash shop it opens a Pandora's box of possibilities. Not all bad, I mentioned the outfits in Fortnite being the sole revenue, that's amazing (but not sure they are BoA, which they should be?).

    Ask yourself this, in the last ten years have cash shops and F2P got better or worse, what is the direction of travel? But I still play in MMOs where I can get a good guild, in a guild of like minded folks you can make a good game of a MMO despite these changes.

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  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 2,517
    Try Runescape Lumbridge castle chat if you don't want to feel alone. It might be better than PoE world 1 chat.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,932
    Some folks can stand in a crowded bar or night club yet feel "all alone."

    I'm now on my 3rd month playing POE, a F2P game, (which of course I've spent some money, $40) and am not suffering from any issues of loneliness. (Don't play POE without guidance, makes a huge difference)

    I did join with some friends, but even as the current league comes to a close I see the group finder board in every town is still active and when trading I rarely have a problem finding people to connect with.

    Try playing Runescape sometime, clever game which is full of people.  (I did pay for a sub though)

    It didn't connect for me as I was overwhelmed with all there was to do and couldn't figure how to proceed.  I think with some guidance I could have stuck around. 
    Scot

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,635
    Kyleran said:
    Some folks can stand in a crowded bar or night club yet feel "all alone."

    I'm now on my 3rd month playing POE, a F2P game, (which of course I've spent some money, $40) and am not suffering from any issues of loneliness. (Don't play POE without guidance, makes a huge difference)

    I did join with some friends, but even as the current league comes to a close I see the group finder board in every town is still active and when trading I rarely have a problem finding people to connect with.

    Try playing Runescape sometime, clever game which is full of people.  (I did pay for a sub though)

    It didn't connect for me as I was overwhelmed with all there was to do and couldn't figure how to proceed.  I think with some guidance I could have stuck around. 
    Funny, i havent played PoE in weeks and here youvare are having a blast. 

    Im now into SC2 and twitch streaming. 
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    DMKano said:
    What you call a problem - has been a solution for 100s of millions of players for years.
    A solution that utterly destroyed the Western Genre.
    GdemamiScotAmaranthar
  • AriesTigerAriesTiger Member UncommonPosts: 411
    edited May 15
    But the people that live the F2P lifestyle NEEDS a game...the few that are on the market are enough for their kind in my opinion. Any more would be a handout.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,932
    edited May 15
    DMKano said:
    What you call a problem - has been a solution for 100s of millions of players for years.
    A solution that utterly destroyed the Western Genre.
    Did F2P really destroy western games or did it succeed due to their own poor design decisions?


    Gdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,753
    edited May 15
    DMKano said:
    What you call a problem - has been a solution for 100s of millions of players for years.
    A solution that utterly destroyed the Western Genre.
    They were not destroyed, but when you change something so much it is as if they no longer exist. The thing is those 100s of millions of players were not originally playing, we did not have MMORPG players going on about how their games needed to be F2P. But that was a solution for 100s of millions of people who were not interested enough in the gameplay and community of MMORPG's to pay for them.

    So not unsurprisingly the baulk of the player base which was once dedicated and community orientated became a butterfly population demanding "meaningful" content even if they are only in game for ten minutes a day. That did not happen over night, but it is where it ended up.
    GeezerGamerSpottyGekko

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  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,635
    I like F2P games, they allow you to control the cost, the trick is to play ones that are not p2w
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    Scot said:
    DMKano said:
    What you call a problem - has been a solution for 100s of millions of players for years.
    A solution that utterly destroyed the Western Genre.
    They were not destroyed, but when you change something so much it is as if they no longer exist. The thing is those 100s of millions of players were not originally playing, we did not have MMORPG players going on about how their games needed to be F2P. But that was a solution for 100s of millions of people who were not interested enough in the gameplay and community of MMORPG's to pay for them.

    So not unsurprisingly the baulk of the player base which was once dedicated and community orientated became a butterfly population demanding "meaningful" content even if they are only in game for ten minutes a day. That did not happen over night, but it is where it ended up.
    I guess it's how you look at it. For me, the experience that brought me into the genre cannot be found anymore. My 1st game was Anarchy Online. And I loved it. I'd never have left except for a few reasons. If I understand what you are saying, it's that the game has lost it's identity. Some years back, they introduced their Item Shop. They said they would not sell "power" (was the word they used at the time)......They sold "power". But the real kicker was when Development changed. For years, the only content they developed for AO was a "booster" which was basically the equivalent of what WoW releases from their quarterly updates. But with FunCom, it was once in years.....as if that was their paltry offering to a dedicated player base, they had the balls to charge 20 bucks for it. From that point on, all the problems and issues that had plagued the game previously, all the sudden had miraculous fixes. Amazingly all the solutions were now available in the new cash shop. 

    This is the tale of how so many games evolved. And many aren't even around anymore. Those that remain, are a shell of their former selves.
    ScotGdemami
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,036
    AAAMEOW said:
    You can just subscribe to lotro and it is no longer f2p...  It is more of a premium game isn't it?

    Beside the game was a subscription game.  So weather the game is f2p or subscription don't matter.  The game is probably more dead when it is subscription base.
    Yes and that sub automatically takes it from a dull quest driven game to this wonderous adventure! Oh wait no it doesnt....All it does is take an extra $15 from us.
    KyleranScot
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,932
    edited May 15
    I like F2P games, they allow you to control the cost, the trick is to play ones that are not p2w
    But don't you really end up controlling the costs by forgoing some of the "fun?"

    POE is a great example, a bit over 2 months in and I've spent $40....on stash tabs....and I now need more.

    Meanwhile, my character is a total murder hobo in terms of attire, been wearing this ridiculous looking helm (Deidbell) which looks as stupid as its name. (But the stats are great, can't let it go)

    Thought I might buy an outfit, one outfit, whoops, have to pay $42.00 for it....uhh no. OK wait for a sale, put it on watchlist, whoops they sent me an email 2 days ago which I just read today....only $32.00...whoops, was a one day (fking really?) sale.

    Hey, how about a nice pet? The three I like would cost roughly $75.00 at full list.

    There is no other way to obtain these items in game, you must buy them off the cash shop.

    So I go without,  again,  by having to forgo some of the "fun" unless willing to sink big bucks into not looking like a ragamuffin.

    People often say POE is an example of a "good" cash shop, I find it to be one of the worst, even ArcheAges looked better.  (As I don't fear "P2W" as much as others)

    But hey at least you can play the core content totally free right? 

    I'd much rather pay a decent sub price and be able to access everything in the game, one way or another. 

    This pay as you go stuff sux IMO.



    Gdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,635
    Kyleran said:
    I like F2P games, they allow you to control the cost, the trick is to play ones that are not p2w
    But don't you really end up controlling the costs by forgoing some of the "fun?"

    POE is a great example, a bit over 2 months in and I've spent $40....on stash tabs....and I now need more.

    Meanwhile, my character is a total murder hobo in terms of attire, been wearing this ridiculous looking helm (Deidbell) which looks as stupid as its name. (But the stats are great, can't let it go)

    Thought I might buy an outfit, one outfit, whoops, have to pay $42.00 for it....uhh no. OK wait for a sale, put it on watchlist, whoops they sent me an email 2 days ago which I just read today....only $32.00...whoops, was a one day (fking really?) sale.

    Hey, how about a nice pet? The three I like would cost roughly $75.00 at full list.

    There is no other way to obtain these items in game, you must buy them off the cash shop.

    So I go without,  again,  by having to forgo some of the "fun" unless willing to sink big bucks into not looking like a ragamuffin.

    People often say POE is an example of a "good" cash shop, I find it to be one of the worst, even ArcheAges looked better.  (As I don't fear "P2W" as much as others)

    But hey at least you can play the core content totally free right? 

    I'd much rather pay a decent sub price and be able to access everything in the game, one way or another. 

    This pay as you go stuff sux IMO.



    Well, i only buy packs at the beginning of seasons, you get a full outfit plus the same amount of money to buy in game shop stuff.

    Then i only buy things on sale in the shop. I dont use pets as they clutter the screen and i cant have that when playing HC.

    Im okay with my chars looking like hobos, i only give them outfits if they hit lvl 75+ or sometimes only at lvl 90.

    In terms of stash, you are probably a hoarder, so you get rid of a lot of junk. Also, you could join a guild anf use their stash tabs for non essentials.

    Ive played PoE for 1700 hours, ive probably put in $300, fair and easy trade for me. Also, i dont consider cosmetics that much fun, the thrill of not dying with weird builds ans reaching high levels is my fun. 

    You can gain cosmetics by entering contests or new league accomplishments. 


    Kyleran
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,934
    edited May 17
    F2P quality all depends on the cash shop and how the game is designed to get you into said cash shop. 

    Paywalls in many mobile games make F2P unplayable without spending any money after you reach a point in progression. For me even if I am enjoying a mobile game I usually know eventually there will be a point I can't progression in a fun manner. 

    Pay to win or pay for advantages. These can just be straight up paid advantages or keys to paywall that allow you to advance faster.  I know people say paying to advance faster is not pay to win.  When your are talking thousands of man hours likely to achieve what they are paying for it does. 

    I think cosmetics and other items are ok for some games.  MMORPG it just looks more like you are ripping out gameplay features to sell.

    I think F2P is fine for attracting players.  P2P games often have problems keeping those semi interested player because they don't want to pay for a game they are have little interest in or passing hobby.

    I am not sure what business model MMORPG should use.  I really don't like any of them except B2P at this point.  

    Post edited by Vermillion_Raventhal on
    Gdemami
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 7,989
    Not all f2p game are empty suckfests that are impossible to play without spending money or joining guilds. Out of sheer boredom of my regular mmos, I've been playing STO. It's easy to just jump in and play the stories, and the population seems decent. You can max level without dropping a penny. When i get tired of it, its easy to walk away. Do i have issues with some aspects of the game? Yeah but I do with all games I play.

    AlBQuirky


  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,789
    The point is not about spending money, but no one will spend money when the game is easy and dead.  Guilds wouldn't help you if your level 5 and just passing through and possibly thinking about it.... You will still be alone !

    The poster above this is just trying to look for free games. Thats the other problem why Guilds will not help low level players.... Cant blame them..... But Hay, If all these mmoprgs suck, can't blame anyone, even the poster above.
    GdemamiDarkestOverlord
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 7,989
    Lol you sound a lot like one of those doom and gloom preachers. I had to see if this was a really old necro because we all debated this issue 10 years ago here. Most of us are over it, you're late to the party.

    Not all f2p games are the same. Some are ghost towns, some are full of decent folks just enjoying a game. Btw I've gotten guild invites in sto since the day I made a new character. Global chat is pretty chatty. Not all are full of mute bots. The worst of the f2p mmos will fail, others will survive, such is the cycle of mmo life.

    BTW do you suffer from some form of separation anxiety or something that you need constant attention in games and on forums? You seem afraid of being alone.



    DarkestOverlord


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