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Fiery Elder Scrolls Online Blog Examines Dragons in Elsweyr - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129

imageFiery Elder Scrolls Online Blog Examines Dragons in Elsweyr - MMORPG.com

Dragons in Elder Scrolls Online's upcoming Elsweyr expansion are a fiery lot and the latest site blog takes a look at their design. Up to their release in Elsweyr, dragons in Tamriel were the stuff of legends and considered extremely rare in the Second Era. The blog details the creation of these new creatures that "represent an unusual challenge, not least because they already played such a massive part in the Elder Scrolls series".

Read the full story here



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Comments

  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    edited May 2019
    Octagon7711[Deleted User]Mouloxtos85Agent_Joseph
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    edited May 2019
    But the big question is will Dragons be able to do animation cancelling, and will they have the same limited number of skills in their skill bars as we do?

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • PARTIESPLAYINPARTIESPLAYIN Member UncommonPosts: 55
    edited May 2019
    Those are f****** wyvern's not Dragon's . Dragons have arms that are not attached to there wings. Why the misconceptions lately I don't get it. "The wyvern in heraldry and folklore is rarely fire-breathing like the four-legged dragon."
    Wizbuiz
  • jj7009jj7009 Member UncommonPosts: 223


    Those are f****** wyvern's not Dragon's . Dragons have arms that are not attached to there wings. Why the misconceptions lately I don't get it. "The wyvern in heraldry and folklore is rarely fire-breathing like the four-legged dragon."



    It’s a mythical creature that changes from culture to culture, your description of a dragon is second generation Tolkien dragons. Which are de facto the default fantasy dragons thanks in large part to dnd. It’s not a misconception it’s a design choice. Also wyverns according to most contemporary media have poisonous tales. So stop spazzing about designs and make your own if you’re not happy with their design go buy some pencils and paper.
    NephethOctagon7711
  • PARTIESPLAYINPARTIESPLAYIN Member UncommonPosts: 55
    edited May 2019
    @jj7009. I think you mis understood. I have no problem with the design. What I do have a problem with is people calling wyvern's dragons when clearly they are not. A Wyvern has never been a dragon and vise versa. Just like in game of thrones they do the same B's there are no dragons in GOT they are Wyvern's. All I'm asking is stop with the miss identifications. It's like calling a Carno a T-Rex which it clearly is not. If your design choice is to use Wyvern's then call them as they are.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,925
    @jj7009. I think you mis understood. I have no problem with the design. What I do have a problem with is people calling wyvern's dragons when clearly they are not. A Wyvern has never been a dragon and vise versa. Just like in game of thrones they do the same B's there are no dragons in GOT they are Wyvern's. All I'm asking is stop with the miss identifications. It's like calling a Carno a T-Rex which it clearly is not. If your design choice is to use Wyvern's then call them as they are.
    Yeah, it's a good point but Wyvern's don't "breathe fire" either.

    I think since none of these creatures really exist, some cross over is fine.

    I think, to the general public, on a certain level it's "close enough."


    Octagon7711
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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    I just had a conversation with some friends about accuracy.  People who are experts in the field or really know the subject matter find it extremely easy to find fault with scenes in TV, movies, or other forms of creative arts, who's primary purpose is to entertain rather then educate.

    Just like people who are good with firearms can tell that the actor using a gun in a scene would have hit nothing in reality because his trigger control was all over the place.  Or a botanist who notices you wouldn't find a particular tree or plant in the area the movie is supposed to take place  in.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • mallettjtmallettjt Member UncommonPosts: 99


    @jj7009. I think you mis understood. I have no problem with the design. What I do have a problem with is people calling wyvern's dragons when clearly they are not. A Wyvern has never been a dragon and vise versa. Just like in game of thrones they do the same B's there are no dragons in GOT they are Wyvern's. All I'm asking is stop with the miss identifications. It's like calling a Carno a T-Rex which it clearly is not. If your design choice is to use Wyvern's then call them as they are.



    Ok you seem to have missed my point. There is not set overall definition of dragon aside from flying scaled fire breathing lizard. Your concept of a dragon comes from the dnd definition of a dragon. However that is dnd this is elder scrolls. DND got that concept from Lotr/silmarillion. The reason you probable have that conception is because so many works use dnd as a baseline for world building because of how iconic and influential it is. However they do not have a copyright on the term dragon and it is up to the writer to determine what a dragon is and what a wyvern is (if the latter even exist in their work).

  • jj7009jj7009 Member UncommonPosts: 223

    mallettjt said:





    @jj7009. I think you mis understood. I have no problem with the design. What I do have a problem with is people calling wyvern's dragons when clearly they are not. A Wyvern has never been a dragon and vise versa. Just like in game of thrones they do the same B's there are no dragons in GOT they are Wyvern's. All I'm asking is stop with the miss identifications. It's like calling a Carno a T-Rex which it clearly is not. If your design choice is to use Wyvern's then call them as they are.






    Ok you seem to have missed my point. There is not set overall definition of dragon aside from flying scaled fire breathing lizard. Your concept of a dragon comes from the dnd definition of a dragon. However that is dnd this is elder scrolls. DND got that concept from Lotr/silmarillion. The reason you probable have that conception is because so many works use dnd as a baseline for world building because of how iconic and influential it is. However they do not have a copyright on the term dragon and it is up to the writer to determine what a dragon is and what a wyvern is (if the latter even exist in their work).






    Sorry was on brothers pc for that reply
  • BeezerbeezBeezerbeez Member UncommonPosts: 302
    I think this sort of debate is kind of fun but if you step back and look at it, many cultures have had different versions of dragons over the centuries, and even those same cultures have evolved their preponderant views.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon

    Apparently the earliest dragon concepts were snake-like. Also consider the eastern style dragons, which are also widely used in lore today as well. Personally, I prefer the Elder Scrolls dragon to the DnD one: I don't care for six-pedal animals much. Evolutionarily speaking, they don't seem to make a lot of sense compared to the wyvern-esque version. And of course, what I really want is an actual, living dragon so I like them to be closer to my understanding of "real" :)
    Octagon7711
  • WizbuizWizbuiz Member UncommonPosts: 215
    BUT IT IS A BIG FOOKING DEAL, when they Call "Wyverns" Dragons, Dragons are four legged and doesn't walk on their wings. GoT fucked with everybody's head. I guess the fat guy can call it what he wants, its his lore. But A donkey is still not a Horse
  • jj7009jj7009 Member UncommonPosts: 223

    Wizbuiz said:

    BUT IT IS A BIG FOOKING DEAL, when they Call "Wyverns" Dragons, Dragons are four legged and doesn't walk on their wings. GoT fucked with everybody's head. I guess the fat guy can call it what he wants, its his lore. But A donkey is still not a Horse



    Yea but why are horses and donkeys all the same in the games that feature them. It’s almost as if, unlike dragons, ARE FUCKING REAL. There is no real model for a dragon only fantasy standards which aren’t really standards because the designs for the creature are so varied even in real mythology.
  • milayskymilaysky Member UncommonPosts: 34
    There is also a linguistic point here maybe ..in my lang there is no such word as wyvern. Closest translation would be like Lizard with wings, or the barbaric translation Saurian with wings, which no translator would go for. All are Dragons. I did check also another lang I speak ..nothing ..dragons ..but 2 others have Wyverns and Dragons separate.
    I see the point to it for being two different beings they should have separate names, but there should be also some firm standard model approved by community for which is which and why. Then I would made up some word for Wyvern for my language ( i'm not calling them Lizards with wings ) ..until then ..meh, Dragons.
  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    The entire wyverin vs dragon argument is nonsensical at it's root because the distinction only really stems from western European lore, which originally itself did not possess much distinction between wyverin and dragon itself either and initially used them interchangeably until they eventually diverged.

    Even in modern times, many languages do not make such distinctions. It's all loose translation and interpretation because many cultures have their own variant on fantasy creatures that are close, but don't fit the exact mould.

    This is an argument levied not by intellectuals of the subject, but pedants who are only familiar with their niche of the world.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
     Actually definitions are rarely set in stone and often change based simply on popularity within cultures.  

    Here's a pretty good researched answer into the meaning and history of the name.

    Etymology
    The current spelling wyvern is not attested before the seventeenth century as "winged two-footed dragon".[1] According to the Oxford English Dictionary, it is an alteration of Middle English wyver (attested thirteenth century), from Anglo-French wivre (cf. French guivre and vouivre), which originate from Latin vīpera, meaning "viper", "adder", or "asp".[1][2] Conversely, medievalist William Sayers proposes a more complex origin for the term. He notes that the Anglo-French guivre and its Middle English derivative ceased to retain the original sense of "venomous snake" after the Latin term was re-introduced into medieval Latin, freeing them up to take an alternate meaning.[3]:460 Adducing another meaning of wiver (this time Old English) and guivre, "light javelin",[3]:461 and noting partial resemblences between the size and shape of javelins and snakes,[3]:462 plus the later medieval era's increasing use of heavy armor and decreasing use of light javelins, he proposes that the concepts of "venomous snake" and "light javelin" were melded to produce a new term for a previously unimagined concept of flying snake, a kind of dragon.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    That implies that wyverin came about as a word to be an analogue to dragon, the etymology exploring what came before wyverin was a phrase. Sits in-line again with it being a loose term that only gained distinction with further time, and that distinction is rooted in western european concepts rather than anything more global.
    Octagon7711
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