Often people associate first generation mmorpgs with:
-deep flaws
-bugs
-wrong decisions
-bad UI
-bad chat systems
Other flaws of first generation mmorpgs are:
-10 hour raids only (exaggerating)
-can't leave cities without a 6 player group
-bad graphics
-bad coding, and unable to run on computers
Why do people automatically expect a NEW first generation game to be poorly designed ?
People instantly resort to comparison of Everquest, Final fantasy 11, Dark Age of Camelot...Their OLD !!!!
People often offer advice to play P1999
It would suck for a new player
-it's OLD and dated !!!!
-it's flawed and broken !!!!
The point I'm making is very clear.... They were made a long time ago.
Nothing has been made old school, without the above flaws.
How can anyone prove a NEW well designed first generation mmorpg wouldn't work.
Theirs NEVER BEEN ONE
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That's why.
Basically:
People assume that because the original "real" first-gen MMORPGs had flaws that are commonly raised against them, that new MMORPGs in development based on old-school gameplay will automatically have similar flaws. However, since no "modern old-school" MMORPG has been released yet, there's no basis for that concern.
And I can see the point in that. 1st and even 2nd gen MMORPG devs were still learning and, frankly, creating and defining the genre. It was kind of a Wild West. The ideas and tech were all new and there was no "template" to follow. These days, there's much better technology. There's more platforms designed specifically for massive persistent worlds, and a much larger knowledge pool available to work with. So, a "modern classic MMORPG" needn't have all the same "mistakes" and "problems" the 1st and 2nd gen MMORPGs had.
I use quotes around mistakes and problems because a lot of people use those terms to describe things they didn't personally like, even if they were technically sound and part of the design (group-centric design, etc). All these years later, and people still don't discern between "feature or system I subjectively dislike" and "objective problem that needs to be fixed".
What the OP often means by "deep flaws" are quite often intentional designs which some believe are what made 1st gen games great and essential to include in any modern revival.
Regarding "bad" graphics for their day most MMORPGs were considered fairly cutting edge, after 1st playing Lineage 1, DAOC blew me away with its visuals.
But you know, I had to purchase one of the "nine" supported video cards to run it well. Gamers with lower end PC'S need not apply.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Now they have very little restrictions placed upon them... hence the almost photorealistic graphics... but the game itself is still the same game it always was because even in 2019, chess is still chess no matter how you skin it.
There is an assumption among some of our posters that later MMORPGS were developed on this principle: Lets look at all the problems in 1st gen, sort those out and build on that.
Where as the changes were mostly down to market led principles and picking your template for design based on how big the player base was. So something like marketing wanting soloing to top level destroyed grouping, rather than just trying to find better ways to group. And those templates (WoW) brought along every issue WoW had. Some are still not sorted out, like the relationship between players, crafters, auction houses, direct player trading, and player stalls...and of course the cash shop. Every iteration on that I have seen still has big issues.
- Early games had less to do and so players did things they would now find boring
- Expectations were lower and so people would do things they would not now do
- Game culture has changed so players are more focused on rushing to end game competitively rather than experiencing the content
- The logistics of information sharing was not well established (min maxing, wiki's, mapping, quest guides) and so there was more wonder to the adventure
If by "deep flaws" we're talking things a given player didn't like, well... That kinda goes back to my point of how people don't discern between "objective problems" and "personal preference".
Some of those systems that people might consider deep flaws contributed to what made those old-school MMORPGS memorable. They're what made the worlds feel vast and dangerous. They made community and player inter-dependence matter. And so forth. Creeping convenience in MMO design has killed all of that off. It sucked the soul right out of the genre, to the point where people are now actively seeking games to bring those things back.
I think it's important to not only look at the system at face value, but to also understand how those systems affected the way people played and interacted.
At the end of the day, there are people who still enjoy and prefer that kind of classic playstyle, who don't see those features as "deep flaws" or "sins" or what not. That there are games in development looking to cater to those people, and bring back at least a big part of that experience is a good thing. Of course, I know there are people who don't like the idea, but well... they have dozens of other titles to choose from.
I've never been bothered by old or "bad" graphics. -shrug- lol
You fix those and you get "WOW".
I think it's more of a "fear" some people have regarding to new "old-school style" MMOs that are being developed. Of course, I also think that's absurd, because if they don't like that playstyle, they can just choose not to play. -shrug-
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
first generation mmos are a thing of the past, tho there have been a few that worked, very well indeed.
we are at 4th gen now i guess, and THEY fuck up. nothing they can do to be first gen mmos anymore. you simply can't be your own grandpa, unless you are fry i guess
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
The major problem with new games is they don't seem to learn from the screw ups of the older games, and tend to make the same mistakes over and over again.
This is why, when someone wants to make a new MMO, even if it based on an older MMO's IP, the goal should always be to fix what went wrong with the old one, while augmenting what went right.
The problem here, is that not everyone agrees with what was "wrong" and what was "right" and therein lies the problem.
Of course, OP assumes everyone buys into what he thinks is bad.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Everyone has a different take on what is good or what is bad based on when they started playing something or what they enjoyed about it.
I don't know if I can think of a change that a majority of people hated other than NGE for SWG, but even then we have the private server with post NGE and it seems to have a big playerbase.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
It's not like rpg's are some new genre,still in a feeling out process.We have tons of top quality tools,game engines and the market is loaded with talented people.\
There is only one reason for flawed/buggy messes and that is more care about making money than worrying about the product.
It started several years ago then became such an easy thing for devs to sell unfinished buggy games they all see it,saw it and now a large majority are doing it.
However what is worse ,an unfinished buggy game being sold to us or devs asking for tons of money up front before even starting a game?
Nobody at Blizzard or SOE or Square Enix asked anyone for money up front,Wow FFXI..FFXIV.EQ1-2 were made by the devs with the devs money.
I cannot say the same about Zeni max because i know they get loads of money from investors.Once you allow people to get involved that know more about money than gaming,it is a really bad sign for the gamer.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.