It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players.
Well technically it already is available to f2p players.
You just have to buy the area's using store points you earn in game by playing. There are guides all over showing the best way to farm store points in game. Play the game, earn store points, buy more content, rinse, repeat.
There are even 2 quest lines that are free through all regions / expansions you can do without even owning the area's you have to play through; the epic quest line and the Bingo Boffin story line. The Epic stops at Helm's Deep and picks up after that expansion so that is a stopping point if you don't buy that one expansion, but the Bingo one play's through OK and both go to Mordor.
That would require reading something about a game, in the new world of gaming you should not be required to read. Be it guides, lore, quests, whatever. The incessant drive to ever more easy mode demands you can only be asked to log in and play.
It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players.
Well technically it already is available to f2p players.
You just have to buy the area's using store points you earn in game by playing. There are guides all over showing the best way to farm store points in game. Play the game, earn store points, buy more content, rinse, repeat.
There are even 2 quest lines that are free through all regions / expansions you can do without even owning the area's you have to play through; the epic quest line and the Bingo Boffin story line. The Epic stops at Helm's Deep and picks up after that expansion so that is a stopping point if you don't buy that one expansion, but the Bingo one play's through OK and both go to Mordor.
Obviously, I mean without having to jump through hoops and grinding your life away. I've done my fair share of LOTRO point grinding.. I've unlocked all the content for free except Moria (I bought that when it launched). It is not a pleasant experience and is not fun for any player... and especially not for new players.
It would make a lot more sense to just get an extra part time job for 2 weeks to buy what you want instead of mindlessly recreating 100 characters and spending, literally, hundreds of hours earning points in the starter zones.
or maybe just pay the nominal Sub and not have to worry about it at all.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players.
Well technically it already is available to f2p players.
You just have to buy the area's using store points you earn in game by playing. There are guides all over showing the best way to farm store points in game. Play the game, earn store points, buy more content, rinse, repeat.
There are even 2 quest lines that are free through all regions / expansions you can do without even owning the area's you have to play through; the epic quest line and the Bingo Boffin story line. The Epic stops at Helm's Deep and picks up after that expansion so that is a stopping point if you don't buy that one expansion, but the Bingo one play's through OK and both go to Mordor.
Obviously, I mean without having to jump through hoops and grinding your life away. I've done my fair share of LOTRO point grinding.. I've unlocked all the content for free except Moria (I bought that when it launched). It is not a pleasant experience and is not fun for any player... and especially not for new players.
It would make a lot more sense to just get an extra part time job for 2 weeks to buy what you want instead of mindlessly recreating 100 characters and spending, literally, hundreds of hours earning points in the starter zones.
Well God forbid they actually give you a reason to pay for the product. If it were easy no one would bother paying them a dime and the game disappears.
It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players.
Well technically it already is available to f2p players.
You just have to buy the area's using store points you earn in game by playing. There are guides all over showing the best way to farm store points in game. Play the game, earn store points, buy more content, rinse, repeat.
There are even 2 quest lines that are free through all regions / expansions you can do without even owning the area's you have to play through; the epic quest line and the Bingo Boffin story line. The Epic stops at Helm's Deep and picks up after that expansion so that is a stopping point if you don't buy that one expansion, but the Bingo one play's through OK and both go to Mordor.
That would require reading something about a game, in the new world of gaming you should not be required to read. Be it guides, lore, quests, whatever. The incessant drive to ever more easy mode demands you can only be asked to log in and play.
You don't have to read a thing....reach in your wallet and pay for the service. If you want to do it all free you better pick up a guide....but don't whine about it either.
Unlike ESO, subbing to LOTRO gives you junk. You still have to buy 100s of dollars of dlc, you don't get anything amazing for subbing like ESO gives you and the daily free stuff is junk compared to BDO
LOTRO is the least worthwhile MMO to pay for and even subbing you don't get anything good like you do in ESO.
I'm not sure we've played the same version of LotRO.
When you sub you get access to all area's that ARE NOT expansions, that means all regions from lvl 1 to 75, 83 to 85 and then 110-115. Which means you could actually SKIP the first 3 expansions just in terms of leveling. https://www.lotro.com/en/lotro-store-quest-packs
You also get 500 store points a month which you can use to BUY the expansions. Nothing extra out of pocket, just the monthly store points you get from having a sub means you can buy an expansion (quest pack not the full blown version with raids & extra shiney's) every 3 months and of course as you play you earn free store points too so that should speed up the buying process.
I'll give you the 2 free daily login gifts might not be much, but you can't have everything.
Really? I recall having to buy quest+zone packs, but looking at your link that isn't a thing.
Is that actually not the case? If so, then I'm so terribly sorry for the misinformation. Did I not actually HAVE to buy quest packs/zone areas to play in them? I bought a quest pack+zone pack, thinking I had to buy them still even when I was subbed. Actually are zone packs even a thing? Or is that just included in a quest pack? I thought they were separate, but now not 100% sure.
Outside of expansions of course, that is different.
If so, wow I could have saved a lot of money and just stay subbed. Now I feel like if I've been wrong this entire time...
There's just not enough pie takes anymore. Good job! You made morning worth waking up for.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I have a Collector's Edition still in the shrink-wrap from when I bought it & intended to play it from years ago. I guess I wasted money on that dang it lol.
Not totally, after downloading the game from the site or steam, go to the LotRO My Account page and log in with your user name and password. Then use the code in the shrink wrapped game in the redeem box and what ever goodies came with the box including the free 30 day VIP will go to your game account.
Also when the 30 day VIP runs out you drop down to Premium status and won't have to worry about ever being F2p status. One hint create all the characters that you think you'll want while in VIP status and play them til they're out of the intro part. That way you'll unlock the VIP pluses on them and they'll be in place when you drop to Premium.
It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players.
Well technically it already is available to f2p players.
You just have to buy the area's using store points you earn in game by playing. There are guides all over showing the best way to farm store points in game. Play the game, earn store points, buy more content, rinse, repeat.
There are even 2 quest lines that are free through all regions / expansions you can do without even owning the area's you have to play through; the epic quest line and the Bingo Boffin story line. The Epic stops at Helm's Deep and picks up after that expansion so that is a stopping point if you don't buy that one expansion, but the Bingo one play's through OK and both go to Mordor.
That would require reading something about a game, in the new world of gaming you should not be required to read. Be it guides, lore, quests, whatever. The incessant drive to ever more easy mode demands you can only be asked to log in and play.
You don't have to read a thing....reach in your wallet and pay for the service. If you want to do it all free you better pick up a guide....but don't whine about it either.
Perhaps I was not clear, I find it astonishing that players feel they should not have to find out anything about the game they are playing. It is your game, embrace it.
It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players.
Well technically it already is available to f2p players.
You just have to buy the area's using store points you earn in game by playing. There are guides all over showing the best way to farm store points in game. Play the game, earn store points, buy more content, rinse, repeat.
There are even 2 quest lines that are free through all regions / expansions you can do without even owning the area's you have to play through; the epic quest line and the Bingo Boffin story line. The Epic stops at Helm's Deep and picks up after that expansion so that is a stopping point if you don't buy that one expansion, but the Bingo one play's through OK and both go to Mordor.
Obviously, I mean without having to jump through hoops and grinding your life away. I've done my fair share of LOTRO point grinding.. I've unlocked all the content for free except Moria (I bought that when it launched). It is not a pleasant experience and is not fun for any player... and especially not for new players.
It would make a lot more sense to just get an extra part time job for 2 weeks to buy what you want instead of mindlessly recreating 100 characters and spending, literally, hundreds of hours earning points in the starter zones.
Well God forbid they actually give you a reason to pay for the product. If it were easy no one would bother paying them a dime and the game disappears.
Here is how I see it.. with a game like DDO/LotRO, if by the time they ask you to pay for more, you don't want to, than it is most likely not the game for you.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players.
Well technically it already is available to f2p players.
You just have to buy the area's using store points you earn in game by playing. There are guides all over showing the best way to farm store points in game. Play the game, earn store points, buy more content, rinse, repeat.
There are even 2 quest lines that are free through all regions / expansions you can do without even owning the area's you have to play through; the epic quest line and the Bingo Boffin story line. The Epic stops at Helm's Deep and picks up after that expansion so that is a stopping point if you don't buy that one expansion, but the Bingo one play's through OK and both go to Mordor.
Obviously, I mean without having to jump through hoops and grinding your life away. I've done my fair share of LOTRO point grinding.. I've unlocked all the content for free except Moria (I bought that when it launched). It is not a pleasant experience and is not fun for any player... and especially not for new players.
It would make a lot more sense to just get an extra part time job for 2 weeks to buy what you want instead of mindlessly recreating 100 characters and spending, literally, hundreds of hours earning points in the starter zones.
Well God forbid they actually give you a reason to pay for the product. If it were easy no one would bother paying them a dime and the game disappears.
They are encouraging you to pay for the wrong type of thing from a new player's perspective. That's the whole point of this discussion. If they don't make changes to make the game more approachable for new players, the population will always be on the decline and the game disappears.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players.
Well technically it already is available to f2p players.
You just have to buy the area's using store points you earn in game by playing. There are guides all over showing the best way to farm store points in game. Play the game, earn store points, buy more content, rinse, repeat.
There are even 2 quest lines that are free through all regions / expansions you can do without even owning the area's you have to play through; the epic quest line and the Bingo Boffin story line. The Epic stops at Helm's Deep and picks up after that expansion so that is a stopping point if you don't buy that one expansion, but the Bingo one play's through OK and both go to Mordor.
Obviously, I mean without having to jump through hoops and grinding your life away. I've done my fair share of LOTRO point grinding.. I've unlocked all the content for free except Moria (I bought that when it launched). It is not a pleasant experience and is not fun for any player... and especially not for new players.
It would make a lot more sense to just get an extra part time job for 2 weeks to buy what you want instead of mindlessly recreating 100 characters and spending, literally, hundreds of hours earning points in the starter zones.
or maybe just pay the nominal Sub and not have to worry about it at all.
The sub gets you to the gates of Moria, then you're blocked. It's not even close to an all in one solution.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players.
Well technically it already is available to f2p players.
You just have to buy the area's using store points you earn in game by playing. There are guides all over showing the best way to farm store points in game. Play the game, earn store points, buy more content, rinse, repeat.
There are even 2 quest lines that are free through all regions / expansions you can do without even owning the area's you have to play through; the epic quest line and the Bingo Boffin story line. The Epic stops at Helm's Deep and picks up after that expansion so that is a stopping point if you don't buy that one expansion, but the Bingo one play's through OK and both go to Mordor.
Obviously, I mean without having to jump through hoops and grinding your life away. I've done my fair share of LOTRO point grinding.. I've unlocked all the content for free except Moria (I bought that when it launched). It is not a pleasant experience and is not fun for any player... and especially not for new players.
It would make a lot more sense to just get an extra part time job for 2 weeks to buy what you want instead of mindlessly recreating 100 characters and spending, literally, hundreds of hours earning points in the starter zones.
or maybe just pay the nominal Sub and not have to worry about it at all.
The sub gets you to the gates of Moria, then you're blocked. It's not even close to an all in one solution.
Moria is an expansion IIRC, and if by the time you get to the Expansion you don't want to buy it.. again.. this is most likely simply not the game for you.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players.
Well technically it already is available to f2p players.
You just have to buy the area's using store points you earn in game by playing. There are guides all over showing the best way to farm store points in game. Play the game, earn store points, buy more content, rinse, repeat.
There are even 2 quest lines that are free through all regions / expansions you can do without even owning the area's you have to play through; the epic quest line and the Bingo Boffin story line. The Epic stops at Helm's Deep and picks up after that expansion so that is a stopping point if you don't buy that one expansion, but the Bingo one play's through OK and both go to Mordor.
Obviously, I mean without having to jump through hoops and grinding your life away. I've done my fair share of LOTRO point grinding.. I've unlocked all the content for free except Moria (I bought that when it launched). It is not a pleasant experience and is not fun for any player... and especially not for new players.
It would make a lot more sense to just get an extra part time job for 2 weeks to buy what you want instead of mindlessly recreating 100 characters and spending, literally, hundreds of hours earning points in the starter zones.
or maybe just pay the nominal Sub and not have to worry about it at all.
The sub gets you to the gates of Moria, then you're blocked. It's not even close to an all in one solution.
Moria is an expansion IIRC, and if by the time you get to the Expansion you don't want to buy it.. again.. this is most likely simply not the game for you.
That kind of attitude isn't going to get more players into the game.. It's not the prospect of having to buy 1 expansion, it's having to buy 6 AND stay subscribed. It's a massive amount of money even when taking advantage of any deals or offers. This 1 game will cost the price of about 5 other NEW games. Even if you like the game and would like to keep playing it, it's just not good value compared to most other games.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
LoTRO went f2p because their numbers were dwindling...ALso DDO had great sucess with f2p so they thought LoTRO would to.....I played both sub and free versions....They felt about the same to me....Neither version was very good.
TheDarkrayne said: The sub gets you to the gates of Moria, then you're blocked. It's not even close to an all in one solution.
That's not correct. As I already pointed out: "When you sub you get access to all area's that ARE NOT expansions, that means all regions from lvl 1 to 75, 83 to 85 and then 110-115. Which means you could actually SKIP the first 3 expansions just in terms of leveling. https://www.lotro.com/en/lotro-store-quest-packs"
TheDarkrayne said: It's not the prospect of having to buy 1 expansion, it's having to buy 6 AND stay subscribed. It's a massive amount of money even when taking advantage of any deals or offers. This 1 game will cost the price of about 5 other NEW games. Even if you like the game and would like to keep playing it, it's just not good value compared to most other games.
Only if you want to play it that way, but you have other options. I'm not at end game, but my main is lvl 88. I did a 3 month sub over Christmas. I did all the sub included regions through Great River (lvl 72-75 zone) skipping Moria. At the end of the 3 months I went back to Premium status.
From the store points from the sub and what I earned in game I then bought (free) Dunland and Isengard. When I finished those I went back and picked up the Epic Quest line and the Bingo Boffin story quest line. I did those all the way through Rohan and when it came time to move into Wildmore (lvl 85) I had built up enough earned store points to buy it (free). I then did the Epic, Bingo and Wildmore's quests and am up to the edge of Helm's Deep just shy of lvl 89 (I need 600 more xp).
You gain enough XP that you level pretty fast, I skipped Moria (I do own it from the original box I bought back in 2009, but I just don't like it), I skipped Mirkwood and I skipped Rohan, so there's 3 expansion's I didn't have to buy and the one I did get; Isengard, the game paid for it.
I do have 3 alt's that I've played off and on prior to my Christmas sub, but all I had to do with them so go back and check how their deeds stood. I ended up having to visit a couple of places, do a couple of quests and I actually had one quest that I needed to kill ONE monster to complete, but I didn't have to grind or even play those hard to wrap up outstanding deeds to earn the points from them to add to what my main was making.
It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players.
Well technically it already is available to f2p players.
You just have to buy the area's using store points you earn in game by playing. There are guides all over showing the best way to farm store points in game. Play the game, earn store points, buy more content, rinse, repeat.
There are even 2 quest lines that are free through all regions / expansions you can do without even owning the area's you have to play through; the epic quest line and the Bingo Boffin story line. The Epic stops at Helm's Deep and picks up after that expansion so that is a stopping point if you don't buy that one expansion, but the Bingo one play's through OK and both go to Mordor.
Obviously, I mean without having to jump through hoops and grinding your life away. I've done my fair share of LOTRO point grinding.. I've unlocked all the content for free except Moria (I bought that when it launched). It is not a pleasant experience and is not fun for any player... and especially not for new players.
It would make a lot more sense to just get an extra part time job for 2 weeks to buy what you want instead of mindlessly recreating 100 characters and spending, literally, hundreds of hours earning points in the starter zones.
or maybe just pay the nominal Sub and not have to worry about it at all.
The sub gets you to the gates of Moria, then you're blocked. It's not even close to an all in one solution.
Moria is an expansion IIRC, and if by the time you get to the Expansion you don't want to buy it.. again.. this is most likely simply not the game for you.
That kind of attitude isn't going to get more players into the game.. It's not the prospect of having to buy 1 expansion, it's having to buy 6 AND stay subscribed. It's a massive amount of money even when taking advantage of any deals or offers. This 1 game will cost the price of about 5 other NEW games. Even if you like the game and would like to keep playing it, it's just not good value compared to most other games.
Well first off, I don't care about getting more warm bodies into a game, I would much rather have quality players that want to invest into their hobby, as opposed to a bunch of whiners that a free ride.
With that said.
Welcome to the Golden Age of MMO's
When players had to pay a Box Fee, a Sub, and buy all Expansions. Keep that in mind when people talk about the glory days before the rise of F2P games, when they speak through rose colored glasses of the grand time of how great games were before cash shops when everyone had to pay a Sub.
But then again, FF14, ESO, and a few other games have this same model, truth is, players coming to a game looking for a free ride are not what any game needs to stay alive, they need people who show up, try the game, and are willing to put their money down to play it.
If someone does not feel their money is well invested into a game that will give them hundreds if not thousands of hours of play, they are welcome to move on and buy some other game to suite their fancy.
If someone is looking for a free ride, by all means, keep on looking.
Blanket Warm Bodies just increase the server load, which is the last thing a company like SSG needs when they are sometimes struggling with server lag.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
My take on the point of the post was there isn't enough new players in the low level maps. Isn't this game player level map gated?
Only on the 2 (relatively new) Legendary Servers. Currently those maps are capped at the end of Moria. But that's because those servers are progression servers where SSG is releasing the content in 4 month chucks. The first 4 months lvl cap was 50 which took you up to the Gates of Moria, then Moria opened up and in another 3? months the next part will open up.
For all the other servers you can technically take a lvl 1 character all the way from the Shire through the gates of Mordor and on into Lake Town (if you can stay alive).
Low level players are sparse on any older game, one of the reasons they did the Legendary servers, so new players (and there were a lot) could experience what those of us at the start experienced - all the good and bad of crowed zones.
But even on the normal servers there's always low level players around, be they new or alt's from older players. Not a lot mind you, but they are there and of course mileage varies depending on what server you're on.
That kind of attitude isn't going to get more players into the game.. It's not the prospect of having to buy 1 expansion, it's having to buy 6 AND stay subscribed. It's a massive amount of money even when taking advantage of any deals or offers. This 1 game will cost the price of about 5 other NEW games. Even if you like the game and would like to keep playing it, it's just not good value compared to most other games.
I've never really understood this train of thinking.
Each expansion costs "x" and a sub costs "y."
Everyone else, as the expansions hit, paid for the expansions ...
"but it's an old game it shouldn't cost ... "
but why? It might be an old game but it's new to anyone else who hasn't played it.
I'm not sure if you were the one who said they had OCD and had to have all the expansions unlocked but if you are then that's really more about you and how you are wired.
Otherwise, if not you, what's the issue? Pay as you go like everyone else.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
My take on the point of the post was there isn't enough new players in the low level maps. Isn't this game player level map gated?
Only on the 2 (relatively new) Legendary Servers. Currently those maps are capped at the end of Moria. But that's because those servers are progression servers where SSG is releasing the content in 4 month chucks. The first 4 months lvl cap was 50 which took you up to the Gates of Moria, then Moria opened up and in another 3? months the next part will open up.
For all the other servers you can technically take a lvl 1 character all the way from the Shire through the gates of Mordor and on into Lake Town (if you can stay alive).
Low level players are sparse on any older game, one of the reasons they did the Legendary servers, so new players (and there were a lot) could experience what those of us at the start experienced - all the good and bad of crowed zones.
But even on the normal servers there's always low level players around, be they new or alt's from older players. Not a lot mind you, but they are there and of course mileage varies depending on what server you're on.
I apologize if my second sentence in my original post didn't make sense. Aren't low level maps level gated in this game? So only low level players are playing on them?
Look, those here that are seeing it some kind of attack against the game are missing the point. This is about how new players see the game, not you. There are people that can accept the payment model and there are those that can't. We are talking about those that can't.
It's not about the specifics, it's about the presentation. I know personally that you can get a lot out of the game for very little cost if you are willing to put in the time. That is not the point.
Having to mess about grinding points, or paying loads of money, or skipping areas and grinding lower level content, etc. affect how you feel about the game. These things have more weight in deciding whether or not someone likes the game more than the actual gameplay does.
They have fun getting to the Lone-lands and then their experience with the game is instantly smashed to bits. Then they have to spend a lot of time figuring out what they might have to buy, what they might be able to earn for free, asking for advice on forums, deciding whether or not they should subscribe (is that the best way to play the game? This guys says yes, this guy says no), what they might be able to or are willing to skip (skipping Moria or Isengard in a story focused LotR game? Blasphemy!), which lower level content they might need to grind because they don't have access to any current level content, how to grind points efficiently if it comes to that.. etc.
The game becomes an exercise in administration, sacrifice, compromise or costs a ridiculous amount to play without being constantly reminded about, and having to work around, what you 'don't' have. I bet it's hella fun running through Moria to get to Lothlorien, afraid to take in the sights because you know that, for you, it's not 'really' there...
... and that shit just ain't fun, at all.
I mean does that sound like fun to you guys? Honestly? Seeing all that slammed into your face for the first time, today, is not the same as becoming accustomed to it as it built up gradually over the years.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Look, those here that are seeing it some kind of attack against the game are missing the point. This is about how new players see the game, not you. There are people that can accept the payment model and there are those that can't. We are talking about those that can't.
It's not about the specifics, it's about the presentation. I know personally that you can get a lot out of the game for very little cost if you are willing to put in the time. That is not the point.
Having to mess about grinding points, or paying loads of money, or skipping areas and grinding lower level content, etc. affect how you feel about the game. These things have more weight in deciding whether or not someone likes the game more than the actual gameplay does.
They have fun getting to the Lone-lands and then their experience with the game is instantly smashed to bits. Then they have to spend a lot of time figuring out what they might have to buy, what they might be able to earn for free, asking for advice on forums, deciding whether or not they should subscribe (is that the best way to play the game? This guys says yes, this guy says no), what they might be able to or are willing to skip (skipping Moria or Isengard in a story focused LotR game? Blasphemy!), which lower level content they might need to grind because they don't have access to any current level content, how to grind points efficiently if it comes to that.. etc.
The game becomes an exercise in administration, sacrifice, compromise or costs a ridiculous amount to play without being constantly reminded about, and having to work around, what you 'don't' have. I bet it's hella fun running through Moria to get to Lothlorien, afraid to take in the sights because you know that, for you, it's not 'really' there...
... and that shit just ain't fun, at all.
I mean does that sound like fun to you guys? Honestly? Seeing all that slammed into your face for the first time, today, is not the same as becoming accustomed to it as it built up gradually over the years.
Ok.
A few points.
1: Yes, there are those that can accept the payment model, and those that can't. And for those that can't, then, this is not the game for them.
Not every game can try to get every gamer. For gamers that like the game, they will feel it worth the money to have more of it, if they don't feel it is worth the money to have more of it, giving it to them for free is the wrong thing to do.
To give you an example. When I played DDO, it was in 2009, and it just went F2P, by the end of my second day logging in, I had bought a Annual Sub, and went to town on that MF'er, because, I liked what I saw and wanted more of it, and it was worth the price to me.
On the flip side of that, I have someone in my static that has been playing DDO since 2009, and still grinds out Points to buy stuff because in his mind, it's a whole game on how little he can spend on his hobby.
We had NEVER seen eye on this, I never got his incessant need to be cheap ass, he never understood my willingness to dump money on the game so frivolously.. there was only one thing we agreed on.. if someone wanted to play the paid content, they had to pay for it.. one way or another.. they had to pay.
If SSG started to give away the content we had to pay for, we both would have quit
2: SSB simply does not have the pull to alienate their core base, Turbine/SSG were never rockstars, they had two of the best gaming IP's anyone could have hoped to get, and have managed to little more than flounder along.
They simply put, cannot afford to alienate their core and loyal base on some hope for new players, with a game that is 13 years old, and looks it.
They would, at the very least, fix at least half their "features", upgrade all the graphics and probably put in more panty shots than a X rated Hentai Feature Length Movie, to have a prayer to live past pissing off their Current Loyal base at this point.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I apologize if my second sentence in my original post didn't make sense. Aren't low level maps level gated in this game? So only low level players are playing on them?
Oh, sorry. No they're not. Everyone has access to all regions at all levels. Higher level characters will go back to low level one's to complete deeds, RP, listen to bands, do the festivals or search for Treasure Chests that you have to be lvl 90 to open. Those are scattered all across the world on each map.
Look, those here that are seeing it some kind of attack against the game are missing the point. This is about how new players see the game, not you. There are people that can accept the payment model and there are those that can't. We are talking about those that can't.
It's not about the specifics, it's about the presentation. I know personally that you can get a lot out of the game for very little cost if you are willing to put in the time. That is not the point.
Having to mess about grinding points, or paying loads of money, or skipping areas and grinding lower level content, etc. affect how you feel about the game. These things have more weight in deciding whether or not someone likes the game more than the actual gameplay does.
They have fun getting to the Lone-lands and then their experience with the game is instantly smashed to bits. Then they have to spend a lot of time figuring out what they might have to buy, what they might be able to earn for free, asking for advice on forums, deciding whether or not they should subscribe (is that the best way to play the game? This guys says yes, this guy says no), what they might be able to or are willing to skip (skipping Moria or Isengard in a story focused LotR game? Blasphemy!), which lower level content they might need to grind because they don't have access to any current level content, how to grind points efficiently if it comes to that.. etc.
The game becomes an exercise in administration, sacrifice, compromise or costs a ridiculous amount to play without being constantly reminded about, and having to work around, what you 'don't' have. I bet it's hella fun running through Moria to get to Lothlorien, afraid to take in the sights because you know that, for you, it's not 'really' there...
... and that shit just ain't fun, at all.
I mean does that sound like fun to you guys? Honestly? Seeing all that slammed into your face for the first time, today, is not the same as becoming accustomed to it as it built up gradually over the years.
Ok.
A few points.
1: Yes, there are those that can accept the payment model, and those that can't. And for those that can't, then, this is not the game for them.
Not every game can try to get every gamer. For gamers that like the game, they will feel it worth the money to have more of it, if they don't feel it is worth the money to have more of it, giving it to them for free is the wrong thing to do.
To give you an example. When I played DDO, it was in 2009, and it just went F2P, by the end of my second day logging in, I had bought a Annual Sub, and went to town on that MF'er, because, I liked what I saw and wanted more of it, and it was worth the price to me.
On the flip side of that, I have someone in my static that has been playing DDO since 2009, and still grinds out Points to buy stuff because in his mind, it's a whole game on how little he can spend on his hobby.
We had NEVER seen eye on this, I never got his incessant need to be cheap ass, he never understood my willingness to dump money on the game so frivolously.. there was only one thing we agreed on.. if someone wanted to play the paid content, they had to pay for it.. one way or another.. they had to pay.
If SSG started to give away the content we had to pay for, we both would have quit
2: SSB simply does not have the pull to alienate their core base, Turbine/SSG were never rockstars, they had two of the best gaming IP's anyone could have hoped to get, and have managed to little more than flounder along.
They simply put, cannot afford to alienate their core and loyal base on some hope for new players, with a game that is 13 years old, and looks it.
They would, at the very least, fix at least half their "features", upgrade all the graphics and probably put in more panty shots than a X rated Hentai Feature Length Movie, to have a prayer to live past pissing off their Current Loyal base at this point.
Saying 'this isn't the game for them' just doesn't cut it for me. It could be the game for them if they just packaged all the expansions at a reasonable cost. $60 purchase and subscription required.
I don't buy the entitlement argument either about people who paid for the content at launch, or after ftp. Games, and just about everything you can buy, get cheaper over time. It's just.. what happens and has always happened. Economy 101. I paid for all of Borderlands 2 at full price but I don't feel annoyed that people are getting the complete edition for like $10 in a sale now when I spent over $100 on it all. I mean, who thinks like that? You've got to have some serious issues if that kind of thing bothers you. Feeling alienated or mistreated because more people are getting to enjoy the game you enjoy 'years' after you first got your hands on it is something I expect to see from children. I'd understand if more players somehow made things worse but it's the complete opposite.. even if it only results in more people to buy your things on the auction house, it's still a plus.
In no way, shape or form would it be a bad thing for new players to get a reasonable package deal. None. Entitlement be damned. That's a psychological/emotional problem some people have. In real terms it doesn't affect them in any way.
It may never change.. probably won't.. and, you may be right, this may never be the game for people that don't like the payment model but it could be quite easily with a few changes.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Saying 'this isn't the game for them' just doesn't cut it for me. It could be the game for them if they just packaged all the expansions at a reasonable cost. $60 purchase and subscription required.
So basically what you are saying is the game is cheap shit and not worth their asking price.
Hummmmmm... I'm not going to argue with that.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Saying 'this isn't the game for them' just doesn't cut it for me. It could be the game for them if they just packaged all the expansions at a reasonable cost. $60 purchase and subscription required.
So basically what you are saying is the game is cheap shit and not worth their asking price.
Hummmmmm... I'm not going to argue with that.
lol
Around $150 with $15 a month on top of that is ridiculous by anyone's standards for a single game.
Even though LOTRO is my favourite MMO ever I sometimes have a hard time recommending it to people because, in terms of value (money and/or time spent bypassing the payment model), there are many, many far better options out there.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Comments
Well God forbid they actually give you a reason to pay for the product. If it were easy no one would bother paying them a dime and the game disappears.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Also when the 30 day VIP runs out you drop down to Premium status and won't have to worry about ever being F2p status. One hint create all the characters that you think you'll want while in VIP status and play them til they're out of the intro part. That way you'll unlock the VIP pluses on them and they'll be in place when you drop to Premium.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
TheDarkrayne said:
It's not the prospect of having to buy 1 expansion, it's having to buy 6 AND
stay subscribed. It's a massive amount of money even when taking advantage
of any deals or offers. This 1 game will cost the price of about 5 other NEW
games. Even if you like the game and would like to keep playing it, it's just
not good value compared to most other games.
Only if you want to play it that way, but you have other options. I'm not at end game, but my main is lvl 88. I did a 3 month sub over Christmas. I did all the sub included regions through Great River (lvl 72-75 zone) skipping Moria. At the end of the 3 months I went back to Premium status.
From the store points from the sub and what I earned in game I then bought (free) Dunland and Isengard. When I finished those I went back and picked up the Epic Quest line and the Bingo Boffin story quest line. I did those all the way through Rohan and when it came time to move into Wildmore (lvl 85) I had built up enough earned store points to buy it (free). I then did the Epic, Bingo and Wildmore's quests and am up to the edge of Helm's Deep just shy of lvl 89 (I need 600 more xp).
You gain enough XP that you level pretty fast, I skipped Moria (I do own it from the original box I bought back in 2009, but I just don't like it), I skipped Mirkwood and I skipped Rohan, so there's 3 expansion's I didn't have to buy and the one I did get; Isengard, the game paid for it.
I do have 3 alt's that I've played off and on prior to my Christmas sub, but all I had to do with them so go back and check how their deeds stood. I ended up having to visit a couple of places, do a couple of quests and I actually had one quest that I needed to kill ONE monster to complete, but I didn't have to grind or even play those hard to wrap up outstanding deeds to earn the points from them to add to what my main was making.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
With that said.
Welcome to the Golden Age of MMO's
When players had to pay a Box Fee, a Sub, and buy all Expansions. Keep that in mind when people talk about the glory days before the rise of F2P games, when they speak through rose colored glasses of the grand time of how great games were before cash shops when everyone had to pay a Sub.
But then again, FF14, ESO, and a few other games have this same model, truth is, players coming to a game looking for a free ride are not what any game needs to stay alive, they need people who show up, try the game, and are willing to put their money down to play it.
If someone does not feel their money is well invested into a game that will give them hundreds if not thousands of hours of play, they are welcome to move on and buy some other game to suite their fancy.
If someone is looking for a free ride, by all means, keep on looking.
Blanket Warm Bodies just increase the server load, which is the last thing a company like SSG needs when they are sometimes struggling with server lag.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's not about the specifics, it's about the presentation. I know personally that you can get a lot out of the game for very little cost if you are willing to put in the time. That is not the point.
Having to mess about grinding points, or paying loads of money, or skipping areas and grinding lower level content, etc. affect how you feel about the game. These things have more weight in deciding whether or not someone likes the game more than the actual gameplay does.
They have fun getting to the Lone-lands and then their experience with the game is instantly smashed to bits. Then they have to spend a lot of time figuring out what they might have to buy, what they might be able to earn for free, asking for advice on forums, deciding whether or not they should subscribe (is that the best way to play the game? This guys says yes, this guy says no), what they might be able to or are willing to skip (skipping Moria or Isengard in a story focused LotR game? Blasphemy!), which lower level content they might need to grind because they don't have access to any current level content, how to grind points efficiently if it comes to that.. etc.
The game becomes an exercise in administration, sacrifice, compromise or costs a ridiculous amount to play without being constantly reminded about, and having to work around, what you 'don't' have. I bet it's hella fun running through Moria to get to Lothlorien, afraid to take in the sights because you know that, for you, it's not 'really' there...
... and that shit just ain't fun, at all.
I mean does that sound like fun to you guys? Honestly? Seeing all that slammed into your face for the first time, today, is not the same as becoming accustomed to it as it built up gradually over the years.
A few points.
1: Yes, there are those that can accept the payment model, and those that can't. And for those that can't, then, this is not the game for them.
Not every game can try to get every gamer. For gamers that like the game, they will feel it worth the money to have more of it, if they don't feel it is worth the money to have more of it, giving it to them for free is the wrong thing to do.
To give you an example. When I played DDO, it was in 2009, and it just went F2P, by the end of my second day logging in, I had bought a Annual Sub, and went to town on that MF'er, because, I liked what I saw and wanted more of it, and it was worth the price to me.
On the flip side of that, I have someone in my static that has been playing DDO since 2009, and still grinds out Points to buy stuff because in his mind, it's a whole game on how little he can spend on his hobby.
We had NEVER seen eye on this, I never got his incessant need to be cheap ass, he never understood my willingness to dump money on the game so frivolously.. there was only one thing we agreed on.. if someone wanted to play the paid content, they had to pay for it.. one way or another.. they had to pay.
If SSG started to give away the content we had to pay for, we both would have quit
2: SSB simply does not have the pull to alienate their core base, Turbine/SSG were never rockstars, they had two of the best gaming IP's anyone could have hoped to get, and have managed to little more than flounder along.
They simply put, cannot afford to alienate their core and loyal base on some hope for new players, with a game that is 13 years old, and looks it.
They would, at the very least, fix at least half their "features", upgrade all the graphics and probably put in more panty shots than a X rated Hentai Feature Length Movie, to have a prayer to live past pissing off their Current Loyal base at this point.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
I don't buy the entitlement argument either about people who paid for the content at launch, or after ftp. Games, and just about everything you can buy, get cheaper over time. It's just.. what happens and has always happened. Economy 101. I paid for all of Borderlands 2 at full price but I don't feel annoyed that people are getting the complete edition for like $10 in a sale now when I spent over $100 on it all. I mean, who thinks like that? You've got to have some serious issues if that kind of thing bothers you. Feeling alienated or mistreated because more people are getting to enjoy the game you enjoy 'years' after you first got your hands on it is something I expect to see from children. I'd understand if more players somehow made things worse but it's the complete opposite.. even if it only results in more people to buy your things on the auction house, it's still a plus.
In no way, shape or form would it be a bad thing for new players to get a reasonable package deal. None. Entitlement be damned. That's a psychological/emotional problem some people have. In real terms it doesn't affect them in any way.
It may never change.. probably won't.. and, you may be right, this may never be the game for people that don't like the payment model but it could be quite easily with a few changes.
Hummmmmm... I'm not going to argue with that.
Around $150 with $15 a month on top of that is ridiculous by anyone's standards for a single game.
Even though LOTRO is my favourite MMO ever I sometimes have a hard time recommending it to people because, in terms of value (money and/or time spent bypassing the payment model), there are many, many far better options out there.