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Bad first impressions

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  • Moxom914Moxom914 Member UncommonPosts: 699
    Quizzical said:
    Moxom914 said:
    play it on PS4. great experience. 
    i may be wrong, but if you sub to WoW, you dont get all the xpacs with it. you still have to pay to continue. i dont play ESO anymore, but its still the best out there.
    As of last year, the main difference in the business model between ESO and WoW is that in WoW, a subscription alone lets you play all but the latest expansion.  In ESO, you have to buy a box up front, in addition to a subscription that lets you play all but the latest expansion.

    But ESO's business model isn't my main complaint.  Blizzard makes it abundantly clear on their web site that with a subscription alone, you have a level cap of 110.  You have to separately buy Battle for Azeroth to get access to it, along with the increased cap of 120.

    If the ESO Plus page were changed so that instead of saying that ESO Plus gives you "full access to all DLC game packs", it said "full access to all content except for the most recent chapter", I'd be satisfied.  Or even if the main text were the same, but the footnote said, "Does not include access to Summerset" (or whatever the latest chapter is; it was Summerset when I played).  The problem is that it doesn't.  The page is intentionally worded to try to lead you to believe that it gives you something that it doesn't.
    so you're pissed over wording? 
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,084
    Horusra said:
    As a collector in games the fact that most items are behind loot boxes turns me off the game.
    wrong again. THere is no real "loot boxes" in the game, and as players level they are rewarded with pets, home utilities and even mounts. Battlegrounds unlock many armor/ weappon styles, and the game content ulocked armor styles as well. It would be kind of obvious, if you were actually playing the game. 

    So if you are coming back to the game with already leveled character, it is a good idea to make an alt and gain the leveling rewards, because it is completely redesigned since launch.
    There are loot boxes...stop lying.
    R3d.GallowsArteriusGorwesumdumguy1
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,420
    edited May 12
    I guess all of this can seem confusing since the DLC are pretty much patches that zenimax sells. That's the easiest way to break all of this down when you compare it to a game like wow. The sub gives you access to all of the patches (DLC) while the expansions are usually separate. Summerest was only their second expansion (which is what they call them) so morrowind ended getting shifted into the 'dlc' pile after a while. Summerest will probably do the same thing after a fews of elsweyr being out. In the end, its pretty much what all mmorpgs have done in the past when they just bundle all the old expansions into the 'box' price. Could they do a way better job of explaining things? Of course and it is pretty funny that it took them this long to even help people with builds, but honestly every game could do a better job somewhere. I think if you buy elsewyr now it automatically includes summerest, I could be wrong though. I wouldn't go as far to hang them out to dry simply on wording. If you're smart enough to break all of this down, you're smart enough to read between the lines. At the end of the day its a b2p game with an optional sub, so you can jump in and out whenever you want without commitment, unlike sub only games like wow where if you re-sub and dont like things, you're stuck with dead time.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,944
    Horusra said:
    Horusra said:
    As a collector in games the fact that most items are behind loot boxes turns me off the game.
    wrong again. THere is no real "loot boxes" in the game, and as players level they are rewarded with pets, home utilities and even mounts. Battlegrounds unlock many armor/ weappon styles, and the game content ulocked armor styles as well. It would be kind of obvious, if you were actually playing the game. 

    So if you are coming back to the game with already leveled character, it is a good idea to make an alt and gain the leveling rewards, because it is completely redesigned since launch.
    There are loot boxes...stop lying.
    Yeah I have definitely seen what appear to be loot boxes.  Also thouigh I have seen what appears to be the rewards from those boxes for direct sale.  I think that is the right way to do it, but then it's further compounded by the use of Gems to purchase?  I have no idea how you obtain the gems but have been told that sometimes the lootboxes give gems...

    Overall it is a very confusing monetization scheme which seems to just check the box for ALL OF THE ABOVE on the types...

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  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 198
    Horusra said:
    Horusra said:
    As a collector in games the fact that most items are behind loot boxes turns me off the game.
    wrong again. THere is no real "loot boxes" in the game, and as players level they are rewarded with pets, home utilities and even mounts. Battlegrounds unlock many armor/ weappon styles, and the game content ulocked armor styles as well. It would be kind of obvious, if you were actually playing the game. 

    So if you are coming back to the game with already leveled character, it is a good idea to make an alt and gain the leveling rewards, because it is completely redesigned since launch.
    There are loot boxes...stop lying.
    Yeah I have definitely seen what appear to be loot boxes.  Also thouigh I have seen what appears to be the rewards from those boxes for direct sale.  I think that is the right way to do it, but then it's further compounded by the use of Gems to purchase?  I have no idea how you obtain the gems but have been told that sometimes the lootboxes give gems...

    Overall it is a very confusing monetization scheme which seems to just check the box for ALL OF THE ABOVE on the types...
    You buy crowns with real money, use those crowns to buy crown crates (loot box) or specific items from the crown store (cash shop).
    When you open a crown crate, if you already have the item(s) you find in the crate, the item is converted to gems, which you can then use to also buy specific items from the crown store.
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,547
    Personally I think ESO is a solid enough MMO with bad combat. If I had to rank my top 3 MMOs atm it would be FF14, then GW2, and then ESO. I still think it is pretty good and has some good content regardless. I just wanted to come here to discuss one thing though...

    The idea of "Chapters" in ESO is the worst decision they ever made. They ARE DLC rebranded. They straight up removed a quarterly DLC update every year as well as a ton of bigger content from other DLCs to replace it with one DLC a year that you have to buy because it is called a "Chapter" not a "DLC".

    I criticized this when they started with this and continue to criticize it now. The only reason "Chapters" exist in ESO is to force players into spending money on one DLC a year that you used to get for free. Yes I understand that it's bigger then most DLC they do, but it is still a DLC.

    I actually thought they had the best payment model in the business before "Chapters" became a thing.
    R3d.GallowsIselinTorvalsumdumguy1
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,770
    Celcius said:
    Personally I think ESO is a solid enough MMO with bad combat. If I had to rank my top 3 MMOs atm it would be FF14, then GW2, and then ESO. I still think it is pretty good and has some good content regardless. I just wanted to come here to discuss one thing though...

    The idea of "Chapters" in ESO is the worst decision they ever made. They ARE DLC rebranded. They straight up removed a quarterly DLC update every year as well as a ton of bigger content from other DLCs to replace it with one DLC a year that you have to buy because it is called a "Chapter" not a "DLC".

    I criticized this when they started with this and continue to criticize it now. The only reason "Chapters" exist in ESO is to force players into spending money on one DLC a year that you used to get for free. Yes I understand that it's bigger then most DLC they do, but it is still a DLC.

    I actually thought they had the best payment model in the business before "Chapters" became a thing.
    You sound like me when Chapters were first invented and boy did I ever get flamed here for it lol.

    You're 100% correct and to illustrated it further you just need to look at one of the very first DLCs, Orsinium and hold it up to any of the Chapters released to date since they changed their business model to 1 chapter + 3 DLC... Orsinium still compares quite well with respect to land mass, quest content and even "extras" since Orsinium also has the Maelstrom Arena solo raid.

    What I think happened is they realized how much work they needed to do to pump out 4 Orsinium quality DLCs per year so they scaled it back to 1 of those per year and 3 mini-DLCs (small zone or a couple of dungeons.) That they decided to charge extra for it was just adding insult to the scaling back of quarterly updates.

    I don't think they would have gotten away with it if the first hadn't been Morrowind. They tied it to the Morrowind anniversary, cranked up the hype machine complete with Super Bowl ad buys and successfully got most players to look over there while they scaled back on content update iterations and nerfed the sub benefits.
    TorvalArteriusCelciusLimnicGorwegervaise1
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  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,045
    Iselin said:
    Celcius said:
    Personally I think ESO is a solid enough MMO with bad combat. If I had to rank my top 3 MMOs atm it would be FF14, then GW2, and then ESO. I still think it is pretty good and has some good content regardless. I just wanted to come here to discuss one thing though...

    The idea of "Chapters" in ESO is the worst decision they ever made. They ARE DLC rebranded. They straight up removed a quarterly DLC update every year as well as a ton of bigger content from other DLCs to replace it with one DLC a year that you have to buy because it is called a "Chapter" not a "DLC".

    I criticized this when they started with this and continue to criticize it now. The only reason "Chapters" exist in ESO is to force players into spending money on one DLC a year that you used to get for free. Yes I understand that it's bigger then most DLC they do, but it is still a DLC.

    I actually thought they had the best payment model in the business before "Chapters" became a thing.
    You sound like me when Chapters were first invented and boy did I ever get flamed here for it lol.

    You're 100% correct and to illustrated it further you just need to look at one of the very first DLCs, Orsinium and hold it up to any of the Chapters released to date since they changed their business model to 1 chapter + 3 DLC... Orsinium still compares quite well with respect to land mass, quest content and even "extras" since Orsinium also has the Maelstrom Arena solo raid.

    What I think happened is they realized how much work they needed to do to pump out 4 Orsinium quality DLCs per year so they scaled it back to 1 of those per year and 3 mini-DLCs (small zone or a couple of dungeons.) That they decided to charge extra for it was just adding insult to the scaling back of quarterly updates.

    I don't think they would have gotten away with it if the first hadn't been Morrowind. They tied it to the Morrowind anniversary, cranked up the hype machine complete with Super Bowl ad buys and successfully got most players to look over there while they scaled back on content update iterations and nerfed the sub benefits.
    Yeah, it simply had to be Morrowind. None of this would've worked if that "Chapter" was set in...Black Marsh. Morrowind just has weight to it, gravity almost.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,865
    Limnic said:
    Guess I never really conflated the chapters and the dlc as being the same thing, because when they introduced them they related the chapters as expansions where the dlc was  smaller in scope. 
    Because you were there when they introduced them.  I wasn't.  I was a new player coming along much later who went by what their web site promised at the time.
    SlyLoKGdemami
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 20,865
    Moxom914 said:
    Quizzical said:
    Moxom914 said:
    play it on PS4. great experience. 
    i may be wrong, but if you sub to WoW, you dont get all the xpacs with it. you still have to pay to continue. i dont play ESO anymore, but its still the best out there.
    As of last year, the main difference in the business model between ESO and WoW is that in WoW, a subscription alone lets you play all but the latest expansion.  In ESO, you have to buy a box up front, in addition to a subscription that lets you play all but the latest expansion.

    But ESO's business model isn't my main complaint.  Blizzard makes it abundantly clear on their web site that with a subscription alone, you have a level cap of 110.  You have to separately buy Battle for Azeroth to get access to it, along with the increased cap of 120.

    If the ESO Plus page were changed so that instead of saying that ESO Plus gives you "full access to all DLC game packs", it said "full access to all content except for the most recent chapter", I'd be satisfied.  Or even if the main text were the same, but the footnote said, "Does not include access to Summerset" (or whatever the latest chapter is; it was Summerset when I played).  The problem is that it doesn't.  The page is intentionally worded to try to lead you to believe that it gives you something that it doesn't.
    so you're pissed over wording? 
    That's a nice euphemism for false advertising.  Let's be clear on what the issue is, not try to obscure it with euphemisms.
    SlyLoKGdemami
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,608
    Still crying over this? Move along already. You misunderstood something simple and instead of coming to terms with it you want to blame someone else for that misunderstanding to cover your moment of ignorance. Get over it.
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,077
    SlyLoK said:
    Still crying over this? Move along already. You misunderstood something simple and instead of coming to terms with it you want to blame someone else for that misunderstanding to cover your moment of ignorance. Get over it.
    This thread would have quietly died if you hadn't decided to comment and place it on the front page.

  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 Member RarePosts: 1,275
    edited June 27
    The problem is we don't move on;  we stay to long, we say to much, we over think every word and need to respond, that's why we're gamers and post on here.  ;)
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 830
    Not me I'm different.

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

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