Classic WoW is not for me. I played SWG back then and I really did not like vanilla WoW. I skipped it and went to play Guild Wars later on because the guild vs guild pvp was so good in that game. And played this along side SWG. My first actual themepark MMO was Everquest 2 I think. Or Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, not sure now.
Imo vanilla WoW did everything wrong in a MMO, making it more tedious then fun. Two typical examples that show vanilla WoW design :
- In this world, clearly designed for travel on mount, lets lock mounts until lvl 40. This is not a reward, it is lifting a travel penalty. There is no challenge in that, it is specifically designed to make progression slower, because sub. Not to mention that anyone can sit on a horse. It is not a difficult skill to learn if you use the horse just to travel from point A to B.
- Lets put the crafting mats for the gear you need in this zone, spread far inside this zone, while the recipes to craft it, cost you an arm and leg, so there is no way that when lvling your first toon, you will be able to craft yourself a decent set of armour when you actually need it. Which is kind of a odd situation for a fighter by profession. This is also why crafting in this game is seen as something to complete just for completion sake and maybe some bits and bobs you can sell on auction house. Not for being actually practical while lvling.
And the tank and spank instances were just simple. The raids were just jumping through hoops that you had to figure out, not because it is complicated, but because of obfuscation. But then skill was never required for MMO's PVE back then, except for PVP. Oh and as raid leader you had to have experience in herding cats.
Gear progression is so random and with smaller populations not supporting the huge multi team guilds there will be a lot longer grind than there is today in WOW. I remember we almost had to make a drood our MT as we transitioned into BWL because we couldn't get gear to drop for our warriors. As for me I'm going to go casually along because my end goal is PVP rather than raiding. Once I get my earth shaker I thinks I will be done with raiding.
I have zero faith in this company’s attempt. The emulated servers have many things Activision doesn't or wont; No sub and freedom of the host/players to change rules or reset being the big two.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Inb4 most people don't even make it to 60... When they realise all the challenging and rewarding gameplay they thought they were missing is actually just tedious and boring...
I'm sure some people legitimately want classic but I honestly think they were seeing the game through rose tinted glasses, farming up bags of soul shards, having to give up a whole bag for amko, only one class being an actual viable tank, healers and dps having to spell rank play, not having enough gold to afford your first mount or spell upgrades, having to completely finish every zone 100%, attunements, fire resist gear, faction locked classes.
It's all good to think it's viable, but I'll honestly be surprised if people can hold out the 2+ month grind to 60
I remember on YouTube years ago there was someone, I don't think Blizzard, that redid many zones of WoW using I think that Unreal engine or maybe a newer engine & WoW looked amazing imo. That would've been a WoW worth resubscribing to imo. WoW is just so old now that beginning now or even rebeginning just doesn't appeal to me since at higher level raiding is or was just so required. At a certain point for any mmo for me especially if it is an older mmo & I still cannot see the scenery unless I'm in a raid I begin losing interest in the mmo. It is an mmo so I understand I'm not suppose to solo it all, but it is a shame not to be able to experience & appreciate a lot of the game too.
well they did this cause you guys asked them too!!!. lol dont complain about it now. i remeber vanilla wow like it was yesterday and ya i did play in wows first open beta..ya years ago!!!!! its almost 2020 folks time to move ahead. imagine wow with a directx12 engine updated graffix well....thats what you want well.....rite. or in VR....vanilla wow is gonna be soo epic but sooo boring lol watch and see.
I think for anyone who has doubts surely it is best to look at the evidence? Has any classic server on any other MMORPG not been a success? I think they all have been, WoW Classic will as well.
Again, I think they will manage to turn a profit but just like all the other "classic" game servers we'll see a big drop off of player population in a few months time. There's just too much other shit out there for any but the serious diehards to stick around. Now when talking Wow numbers those diehards might just be enough to generate a nice chunk of change, but I don't think its going to bring about any kind of renascence. Nor bring in the kind of return we're seeing from more modern games.
I have been trying to follow how well the classic servers have been doing but that's not easy. Which ones have seen a big drop in the player base already?
It should be fine, wow has not really changed all that much from classic, the base experence of the game is still about the same, the difference is how fast you can go thru it, was much slower paced in classic old wow.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Cool lets get back to how it used to be no lvling to 120 in a weekend lets die a few times to get to that next lvl and make it fun to be in a guild got to say we got to get the team back and get aftermath guild back up and running .
This thread is kind of funny to read, and a bit surreal in some cases. Some people haven't been very plugged into the goings-on around WoW, or even the MMO genre in general.
Long answer: Asking "can a classic server hold up in today's market" is kinda ironic. The demand for a classic experience comes from a segment of "today's market" dissatisfied with "today's WoW experience".
But that's not even the right question to ask. To me, the question at this point isn't can a classic WoW experience "hold up" in today's market". The question is, can Blizzard manage to not f**k it up".
The demand is clearly already there. This was established before Blizzard even decided to seriously consider it. Blizzard decided to go forward with it because the demand was clearly there.
For those saying things along the lines of "it won't be enough to bring in a huge amount of players"... And? That's not the point of it. WoW is already getting WoW like numbers. This isn't for those people. It's not going to draw in huge numbers, relative to current WoW, nor does it have to.
Arguing "nostalgia goggles" or whatever is pointless. It's individuals projecting their own biases on to others who clearly doesn't share them.
Further, Legacy/Classic/Progression servers are already a precedented, tested and proven idea. EQ1, EQ2, Lineage 2, Runescape, LoTRO - and others I'm forgetting atm - all have opened so-called "legacy" servers. And they're all doing fine.
So, can it hold up? I say yes, definitely. Again, so long as Blizzard can restrain themselves from trying to "tweak and improve and streamline it" to the point it's no longer recognizable as a classic experience.
It will do as well as the Rift Progression server did...
The problem here is, if you played classic, you already know the game like the back of your hand. It loses a lot of it's lustre because there is no wonder of the unknown. Classic was about finding your way around, working your way around the bugs, figuring out different combinations of skills, and maximizing macros.
By the end of classic, players had figured out everything there was to know about the game to the nth detail. These players are going to be playing it again knowing all that information this time around. Hell, anyone has access to that information with the way back machine... every macro, every build, every little detail there is to know.
Even the players that never played classic before will not be unscathed by the presence of players who know everything about the game. You can't go back to the way it was, you can only get a glimpse of it.
As such, it will do okay, but not phenomenal. It has no upward progression beyond Naxx. In classic no one knew what the end was nor if it was going to just go on forever. That kept a lot of people waiting to see what was to come. The mentality now is to leave and wait until the next thing gets released. That will kill the servers just as it does to retail now. That didn't happen back then.
So no, classic isn't going to save anything. Blizzard will get a slight reprieve but in the end, the downward spiral of subscriptions will continue on it's current course. Even the die hard fans are losing interest in the game... they've been playing it for over 12 years now and all they have been rewarded with is a more caustic playing environment with each passing game.
Remember also that back in classic... players were happy just spending a subscription to duel outside of iron forge or orgrimmar all day. Most of what made classic classic wasn't even the content at all... just the social interaction between players around the world. It was all new back then... it's about as old hat as you can get today. You don't need WoW to chat online like you did back then. So classic really will never be classic ever again... unless you have been living under a rock and just discovered the internet today.
I really wish casual and mainstream gamers would stop projecting their views and ideas on what gamers like. You know what you and your kind like. And you have no idea what people like outside of casual and mainstream gaming.
WoW original had actual meaty rpg systems geared towards adults - it had talents, skills, trying, and thinking. No dual builds. Most people could not afford to respect their talents all the time for different activities. Most people didn't have the time build up huge sums of money, or play all day.
And the best thing is WoW classic will not appeal to the people who did since they are mostly unemployed mainstream players and are too busy playing Fortnight and other mainstream shit to play a game because it is actually a good game rather than the current it thing. No achievements will drive off another large group of idiots and kids. Etc.
The people I dislike and do not want to play with will either not try this or move on quickly. I truly hope this does not become some hip thing for all the mainstream and casual people, as that will be the only reason it deviates from being classic to having every loud mouth idiot and their brother screaming for it to become more and more modern wow.
We should make a peace - all you guys stick to your BRs, survival games, and modern wow - and we'll stick to classic wow and other real mmorpgs. You stop playing our games and telling us what we like and want, and we'll continue to silently be confused by all of you and we watch you in horror watch videos of other people playing video games and play games that utter crap and barely deserve the title of game, and definitely don't warrant the label of rpg.
It should be fine, wow has not really changed all that much from classic, the base experence of the game is still about the same, the difference is how fast you can go thru it, was much slower paced in classic old wow.
You mean the look has not changed much. The base experience has changed like day and night. I think that many players don't realise how many quality of life improvements WoW has received over the years.
But hey, have fun grinding enough gold to be able to buy your recipes and spell upgrades. Have fun running out of bag space all the time, because every single thing has to go into your bags. Maybe you are lucky and can afford a mount when you are lvl60.
The elephant in the room is the sub for Activision Blizzard. I can play nostalgic games that are free to play like Old School Runescape. I can play that on my mobile phone, I don't even need a computer these days. And it's F2P. I don't see how WoW Classic, which is an echo of the past, can get away with demanding a sub for "Classic" in this free to play modern day and age.
I think it will offer a bit of fun nostalgic enjoyment for the right demographic of gamers, but, it will wane away quickly, like all other attempts by game companies to return to basics.
But while it lasts, I hope those that have been wanting this.. enjoy it fully.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
wait until paladin start asking for moar dps , or get tired of being a outside battle rez bot , or blessing every1 and start again because the 1 is dropping.... wait until druids want to go feral to tank , wait until shamans want to play ele ....wait until mages say that casting frostbolt for 2h isnt fun (raids) , wait until warlocks ask for more DOTS SLOTS , or tired of being the CoE bit1$!....wait until hunters ask for the removal of dead zone ....and we can go on and on....
FFXIV's Eureka proved that these are just rose-tinted glasses. Eureka played and felt similarly to FFXI, something people kept saying they wanted over and over and people disliked it almost immediately.
Give it a few weeks, maybe a few months and, once the rose-tinted glasses get forced off, Classic will begin to utterly fail, especially once people bother to realize that the game will pretty much be static [if Classic gets updates like the original game did, it won't be Classic anymore] permanently.
well the basic math i guess suggest that with enough players there will always be a % that will go old school... and WoW does have the numbers to make that % viable.
I still do not think it will last but i honestly does not have a dog in the fight to so speak. I do not own any stock in Blizzard
I'd love to know what type of player specifically the people who think classic will fail will attract that will hate it or lose interest quickly?
1) Obviously, there is a lot of projection, so it goes without saying you guys are not interested, or will give it a try between watching videos of other people playing Fortnight and whatever other hot "game" that is fun to watch other people play.
2) People into modern WoW and new games that the mainstream gamers and casuals love. This is true since these people play (or more likely watch videos of other people play) modern WoW and all the popular mainstream casual games that are currently hot ticket items.
3) Most children under 25 - this shouldn't need an explanation.
I agree with these three groups ignoring, or trying and not lasting long in classic. This argument would hold weight if this was the target market of classic. It 100% isn't, so it is very poor and fallacious reasoning.
But, are you guys considering the market this game is actually for? How many millions of players used to play WoW but stopped at certain points because WoW stopped being WoW to them? Because what they actually liked about the game was patched or expansioned out? Like talent trees, skills, complexity, things to do that are worth doing - you know, the game part of the game? Disenfranchised prior mmorpg players that have absolutely nothing to play currently and nothing to look forward to since mmorpgs now aren't. Kids or people that missed early WoW but want an actual mmorpg experience with some depth and complexity. Etc. Basically, everyone but the majority of the populations of the three groups named above.
My biggest worry is classic will be too much of a hit and it will attract way too many people from the three named groups above because its a new hip thing and they'll feel pressure to play it, thus ruining the game for the actual target market of classic wow.
Comments
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I'm sure some people legitimately want classic but I honestly think they were seeing the game through rose tinted glasses, farming up bags of soul shards, having to give up a whole bag for amko, only one class being an actual viable tank, healers and dps having to spell rank play, not having enough gold to afford your first mount or spell upgrades, having to completely finish every zone 100%, attunements, fire resist gear, faction locked classes.
It's all good to think it's viable, but I'll honestly be surprised if people can hold out the 2+ month grind to 60
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Yeah but they add new content and people that play usually enjoy the grind in that game.
MurderHerd
To answer the OP's question:
Short answer:
Nostalrius.
Remember this vid?
Long answer:
Asking "can a classic server hold up in today's market" is kinda ironic. The demand for a classic experience comes from a segment of "today's market" dissatisfied with "today's WoW experience".
But that's not even the right question to ask. To me, the question at this point isn't can a classic WoW experience "hold up" in today's market". The question is, can Blizzard manage to not f**k it up".
The demand is clearly already there. This was established before Blizzard even decided to seriously consider it. Blizzard decided to go forward with it because the demand was clearly there.
For those saying things along the lines of "it won't be enough to bring in a huge amount of players"... And? That's not the point of it. WoW is already getting WoW like numbers. This isn't for those people. It's not going to draw in huge numbers, relative to current WoW, nor does it have to.
Arguing "nostalgia goggles" or whatever is pointless. It's individuals projecting their own biases on to others who clearly doesn't share them.
Further, Legacy/Classic/Progression servers are already a precedented, tested and proven idea. EQ1, EQ2, Lineage 2, Runescape, LoTRO - and others I'm forgetting atm - all have opened so-called "legacy" servers. And they're all doing fine.
So, can it hold up? I say yes, definitely. Again, so long as Blizzard can restrain themselves from trying to "tweak and improve and streamline it" to the point it's no longer recognizable as a classic experience.
The problem here is, if you played classic, you already know the game like the back of your hand. It loses a lot of it's lustre because there is no wonder of the unknown. Classic was about finding your way around, working your way around the bugs, figuring out different combinations of skills, and maximizing macros.
By the end of classic, players had figured out everything there was to know about the game to the nth detail. These players are going to be playing it again knowing all that information this time around. Hell, anyone has access to that information with the way back machine... every macro, every build, every little detail there is to know.
Even the players that never played classic before will not be unscathed by the presence of players who know everything about the game. You can't go back to the way it was, you can only get a glimpse of it.
As such, it will do okay, but not phenomenal. It has no upward progression beyond Naxx. In classic no one knew what the end was nor if it was going to just go on forever. That kept a lot of people waiting to see what was to come. The mentality now is to leave and wait until the next thing gets released. That will kill the servers just as it does to retail now. That didn't happen back then.
So no, classic isn't going to save anything. Blizzard will get a slight reprieve but in the end, the downward spiral of subscriptions will continue on it's current course. Even the die hard fans are losing interest in the game... they've been playing it for over 12 years now and all they have been rewarded with is a more caustic playing environment with each passing game.
Remember also that back in classic... players were happy just spending a subscription to duel outside of iron forge or orgrimmar all day. Most of what made classic classic wasn't even the content at all... just the social interaction between players around the world. It was all new back then... it's about as old hat as you can get today. You don't need WoW to chat online like you did back then. So classic really will never be classic ever again... unless you have been living under a rock and just discovered the internet today.
WoW original had actual meaty rpg systems geared towards adults - it had talents, skills, trying, and thinking. No dual builds. Most people could not afford to respect their talents all the time for different activities. Most people didn't have the time build up huge sums of money, or play all day.
And the best thing is WoW classic will not appeal to the people who did since they are mostly unemployed mainstream players and are too busy playing Fortnight and other mainstream shit to play a game because it is actually a good game rather than the current it thing. No achievements will drive off another large group of idiots and kids. Etc.
The people I dislike and do not want to play with will either not try this or move on quickly. I truly hope this does not become some hip thing for all the mainstream and casual people, as that will be the only reason it deviates from being classic to having every loud mouth idiot and their brother screaming for it to become more and more modern wow.
We should make a peace - all you guys stick to your BRs, survival games, and modern wow - and we'll stick to classic wow and other real mmorpgs. You stop playing our games and telling us what we like and want, and we'll continue to silently be confused by all of you and we watch you in horror watch videos of other people playing video games and play games that utter crap and barely deserve the title of game, and definitely don't warrant the label of rpg.
The right kind of people. You say this like those kind of people being driven away will be a bad thing. Nothing could be further from the truth.
That would be awesome!
But while it lasts, I hope those that have been wanting this.. enjoy it fully.
Give it a few weeks, maybe a few months and, once the rose-tinted glasses get forced off, Classic will begin to utterly fail, especially once people bother to realize that the game will pretty much be static [if Classic gets updates like the original game did, it won't be Classic anymore] permanently.
I still do not think it will last but i honestly does not have a dog in the fight to so speak. I do not own any stock in Blizzard
This have been a good conversation
1) Obviously, there is a lot of projection, so it goes without saying you guys are not interested, or will give it a try between watching videos of other people playing Fortnight and whatever other hot "game" that is fun to watch other people play.
2) People into modern WoW and new games that the mainstream gamers and casuals love. This is true since these people play (or more likely watch videos of other people play) modern WoW and all the popular mainstream casual games that are currently hot ticket items.
3) Most children under 25 - this shouldn't need an explanation.
I agree with these three groups ignoring, or trying and not lasting long in classic. This argument would hold weight if this was the target market of classic. It 100% isn't, so it is very poor and fallacious reasoning.
But, are you guys considering the market this game is actually for? How many millions of players used to play WoW but stopped at certain points because WoW stopped being WoW to them? Because what they actually liked about the game was patched or expansioned out? Like talent trees, skills, complexity, things to do that are worth doing - you know, the game part of the game? Disenfranchised prior mmorpg players that have absolutely nothing to play currently and nothing to look forward to since mmorpgs now aren't. Kids or people that missed early WoW but want an actual mmorpg experience with some depth and complexity. Etc. Basically, everyone but the majority of the populations of the three groups named above.
My biggest worry is classic will be too much of a hit and it will attract way too many people from the three named groups above because its a new hip thing and they'll feel pressure to play it, thus ruining the game for the actual target market of classic wow.