The #nochanges brigade will be spitting blood and giving birth to 5 headed goats in reaction outrage.
At this point ActiBlizz might as well just put the new character models in and rebrand Classic as "WoW 2.0".
It'll probably be GG if they announce that they are keeping the mount journal thing from live. 6 months after launch they'll probably just add heirlooms because "...there will be "a deliberate effort
to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had
exhausted an existing reward structure"...." etc." I mean the whole "people just dont have as much time as they used to" excuse is wearing thin. The whole point was because it wasn't meant for everyone. Just go play on live if you want things catered to you, freaking simple.
Oh agreed, it will be interesting to see what choice the players make, Classic or Live BFA. It may even lead to an existential crisis of WoW if they can't decide properly because of a blurring instead of a complete separation between the two games.
One Subscription to play them both. I think a lot of players will try Vanilla, maybe even fully level up a character and will be hit by endgame. You as player will have to be pro-active and entertain yourself. You'll need to find 39 others to do raids. You'll need to start farming/grinding materials (for hours) to make consumables. You'll need to take turns on receiving loot. You'll need to run to dungeon/raid instances. You'll be spending a lot time on drinking/eating between fights. You'll be alt-tabbed a lot when travelling by flightpath or waiting for boats.
Then people will start playing BFA and love the QOL improvements. Restarting their lone-wolf mindset and join that raidfinder.
You still have to grind materials now to make consumables or buy them, the loot system now is random, not sure how it's better than the old system, the run to raids was a proper laugh, especially on Sunday, the mass brawls that used to erupt at Black Rock Mountain were quality.
Of course if you're socially crippled and the thought of having to join organised groups leaves you hyperventilating then crack on and play the complete shit show that is raid finder. Where you need absolutely no clue, no form of skill and no consumables, in fact you don't even need to play, if you do absolutely nothing in raid finder no one will notice you on meters n you can literally afk through.
Such massive quality of life improvements in WoW turned it from an MMO into a glorified lobby.
The #nochanges brigade will be spitting blood and giving birth to 5 headed goats in reaction outrage.
At this point ActiBlizz might as well just put the new character models in and rebrand Classic as "WoW 2.0".
It'll probably be GG if they announce that they are keeping the mount journal thing from live. 6 months after launch they'll probably just add heirlooms because "...there will be "a deliberate effort
to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had
exhausted an existing reward structure"...." etc." I mean the whole "people just dont have as much time as they used to" excuse is wearing thin. The whole point was because it wasn't meant for everyone. Just go play on live if you want things catered to you, freaking simple.
Oh agreed, it will be interesting to see what choice the players make, Classic or Live BFA. It may even lead to an existential crisis of WoW if they can't decide properly because of a blurring instead of a complete separation between the two games.
One Subscription to play them both. I think a lot of players will try Vanilla, maybe even fully level up a character and will be hit by endgame. You as player will have to be pro-active and entertain yourself. You'll need to find 39 others to do raids. You'll need to start farming/grinding materials (for hours) to make consumables. You'll need to take turns on receiving loot. You'll need to run to dungeon/raid instances. You'll be spending a lot time on drinking/eating between fights. You'll be alt-tabbed a lot when travelling by flightpath or waiting for boats.
Then people will start playing BFA and love the QOL improvements. Restarting their lone-wolf mindset and join that raidfinder.
Farming for soul shards - if you played a Warlock. Do I miss it? Absolutely not.
Not surprising that bliz would stray from what people wanted in the first place.
People who wanted the newer style game with all the QoL improvements will just play BfA to begin with. If they try to Modernize vanilla wow... well people will just keep playing private servers and give them the middle finger, and the project will fail horribly.
I still think they are clueless why so many people wanted vanilla in the first place.
Which they never even did in the original... the players made the community, not Blizz. What they are really missing the boat on is that they keep assuming their largest player base will be those who played Vanilla to death back in the day but left by the time Wrath came out.
The reality is, their biggest market is all the players who never even started playing WoW until much later in the game... they are the one who "missed out" on all the early content that was bastardized along the way. This is their opportunity to actually play original WoW. Problem is, Blizzard is changing it, thus it will neither appeal to the old timers or the modern players.
Maybe I'm in the minority for thinking this, but it shouldn't be the developers' job to build community but for the community to build itself up....Making things 'easier for people to catch up' deteriorates that. Not everyone is supposed to be at the same place at the same time, that's the problem with current wow. Its the community's responsible to help each other progress. This also works to make it seem like the game is longer than it really is because the people at the 'top' is really small in reality given that there is usually a lot of backtracking involved. Just leave things as they were. They worked for a reason. If the current development team really understood their community, they wouldn't be having as many problems with the live game.
What you mentioned is kind of hard to do when they made every new expansion void all the "work" you did in a previous expansion. They decided to treat expansions as seasons and that decision was made long ago when the original big boi WoW devs were there so Ion can't really be blamed for that. The more you think about it he kind of inherited the phuckfest that is >>>every new expansion is practically a new WoW and is powerless to do anything about it. Who wouldn't get tired of that game model where what you worked for over years is reduced to nothing? WoW players leave then maybe come back for the first 3 months of an expansion then leave again which is the same amount of time for "seasons" in other games. It was a good test but overall when it comes to persistence like other MMO's have that makes you want to stick around WoW's format does not work IMO.
wasn't the idea of vanilla server to never had to deal with this expansion again?
Yes, that's what I was trying to say is that when expansions came into the picture the community part that Albatross mentioned crapped out. Each new expansion brought in New players but also lost many so it was like a high turn around work place with constantly changing work force and the re-hiring happened every expansion. I also brought up expansions because I don't expect them to leave classic to die if it drops in player numbers. I don't see current Blizzard investing a couple years into classic just to one day close up shop. I think they will do everything they can to keep players even if it means creating extra content that did not exist in vanilla if they think it'll be profitable. If they can maintain the feel of vanilla and not destroy that community and have a do over every time they release something that may seem like an expansion I wouldn't be opposed to new content in classic.
Yet we get asshats like you continue to argue the tinted goggles bullshit. How about shutting the fuck up instead? If Blizzard does a pure vanilla experience and doesn't fuck with things, they will have several hundred thousand people that will consistently play for decades to come becuse not everyone gives two shits about how old the 3d engine is or how dead people think the games is. They just want it back. Figure it out.
WHAT?
Gamers today don't have the time nor do they even want to grind even 3 months in games for a reward. So a very over the top defense of that play style flies in the face of REALITY.
Just look at the metrics of current WoW: m-a-n-y play for one month and then leave. They might return for patches, or worse, during the "catch up mechanisms" later in the game.
HOW do you think that will match up in vanilla considering it's the exact same player base?
Oh, it won't be pretty. It may have a nice opening splash, but once most hit level 60 and all that's left is THE GRIND (more so considering the run sellers for cash will make sure e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e raids [when less than 10% got even to do Molten Core in vanilla]) , yeah, give it 6 months and you'll see the exact same drop of players on classic servers.
Classic already isn't Vanilla anyway. So keep smoking that pipe, reality is going to hit hard for the "run and gun" players needing instant "I'm elite" avenues for "success".
The whole point of us fighting for vanilla to return is because of those things ... if they don't give that to us ... we fought for nothing and the entire thing won't get us to come back. You can keep smoking that pipe dream. Do you realize that everquest 1 is still being played?
We fought to get vanilla back ... if they don't give it to us, we will just create a private server again with the REAL vanilla on it. Period. Or we just go to pantheon ... the only REAL mmorpg. Not these instant gratification bullshit games were no one really values anything. Ever since mobile games have come out, this has become the norm because regular people play these shitty ass games. Now it gets forced on hardcore gamers... what a joke. The hardcore gamers were the ones that made these companies great and known and now they are abandoning these fans.
They don't seem to understand that these normal people don't give a rats ass about their product. Because the moment that instant gratification is filled, they just walk away. While hardcore gamers stick to a game and fight for them because we DO care.
Those... "normal" people pay though. And there are many more of them than there are "hardcore" gamers. Not to mention "hardcore" games are often a pain in the ass by always complaining about every little detail, and with their elitist asshat attitude, as opposed to those "normal" people who just play for fun.
I wonder what demographic is more interesting for companies to keep then... the minority of eternally unsatisfied "hardcore" gamers, or the huge amount of player who just pay to have fun...
It's not about gamers being "normal" or "hardcore". The fact is mobile games are totally different from PC games and the crowd playing them - as big as the crowd may be - treat them more like pass time activity rather than a hobby. Besides, WoW already has a casual version of the game, which plays a lot like mobile games in many ways. As i've understood one of the Blizzards goals is to reclaim lost customers who don't agree with the design path the retail game has taken. This won't happen by altering WoW:Classic to suit better for the current BfA playerbase.
More people play games today than only the hardcore hobbyists. Even my 63 yo mother plays Mahjong almost daily. Any game i'd consider interesting enough to play is way too complicated and hard for her. Does this mean these games should be altered to meet my mother's standards? Of course not. We used to have games of different genres for different kind of gamers. Now we also need to take account the level of competence of people playing games. And the best solution is not, and never will be to make all games suitable for rookie level gamers.
The #nochanges brigade will be spitting blood and giving birth to 5 headed goats in reaction outrage.
At this point ActiBlizz might as well just put the new character models in and rebrand Classic as "WoW 2.0".
It'll probably be GG if they announce that they are keeping the mount journal thing from live. 6 months after launch they'll probably just add heirlooms because "...there will be "a deliberate effort
to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had
exhausted an existing reward structure"...." etc." I mean the whole "people just dont have as much time as they used to" excuse is wearing thin. The whole point was because it wasn't meant for everyone. Just go play on live if you want things catered to you, freaking simple.
Oh agreed, it will be interesting to see what choice the players make, Classic or Live BFA. It may even lead to an existential crisis of WoW if they can't decide properly because of a blurring instead of a complete separation between the two games.
One Subscription to play them both. I think a lot of players will try Vanilla, maybe even fully level up a character and will be hit by endgame. You as player will have to be pro-active and entertain yourself. You'll need to find 39 others to do raids. You'll need to start farming/grinding materials (for hours) to make consumables. You'll need to take turns on receiving loot. You'll need to run to dungeon/raid instances. You'll be spending a lot time on drinking/eating between fights. You'll be alt-tabbed a lot when travelling by flightpath or waiting for boats.
Then people will start playing BFA and love the QOL improvements. Restarting their lone-wolf mindset and join that raidfinder.
Farming for soul shards - if you played a Warlock. Do I miss it? Absolutely not.
But I bet you miss levelling up those weapon skills
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Those people who asked for a classic server can perhaps answer this question for me.
Are you saying that once it's up and running, you want to more additions to the game, no new raids, no new dungeons, no ex-pacs etc?
If that is how I read it, how long until you get bored of doing the same thing over and over, consider that 7 or so expansions have created boredom in the many others who didn't mind them?
Those people who asked for a classic server can perhaps answer this question for me.
Are you saying that once it's up and running, you want to more additions to the game, no new raids, no new dungeons, no ex-pacs etc?
If that is how I read it, how long until you get bored of doing the same thing over and over, consider that 7 or so expansions have created boredom in the many others who didn't mind them?
Some people are that strange, I guess. They think it will be fun to farm the few same raids over and over again with alts for the next 10 years.
Personally, I will play classic for the old non-linear world, the old REAL talent trees permitting viable hybrids, and the old character mechanics (pet taming, class quests, etc...). But I don't expect it to last forever, once the content is done, it's over. I won't linger around for years just out of nostalgia.
Now combine this with new dungeons, new raids, new professions and ex-packs and we would have a winner.
All those "7 or so" expansions changed the game so much that new dungeons and raids wasn't enough to keep people playing and paying. They rather play the game as it should be even if the price is finite content.
The game i keep seeing in my dreams plays like vanilla WoW but has all the content from the retail game. People will now have a chance to choose the one that is least broken and for many that is Classic.
So far things look as expected from Blizzard.WE don't really care about VANILLA,we just want to do whatever it takers to generate new revenue.So what will happen is Blizzard making excuses for NOT delivering an actual vanilla experience.
I am not sure what part of VANILLA Blizzard didn't understand when the idea was brought up by many players.I would also expect that because money if their main focus that content will be soon sped up to a faster release than what happened originally.These very problems existed seeing SOE do this vanilla progression idea servers.Players know the game ,the areas,they know how to navigate much faster and do content much faster so the player base will also ignore the vanilla idea and start asking for new content.
SO what happens after all is said and done is this was never about vanilla but from the player standpoint they wanted the vanilla experience not the actual game change and from Blizzard they just want to keep more players happy,keep them spending money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I really don't understand their thought process here. If I were going to provide this service I would launch as close to vanilla as I could. From there, take user feedback and adjust accordingly. You will already have the vanilla crowd so it's not like you have to worry about the live players trying to jerk the server in that direction.
Instead they seem to be racking their brains trying to please everyone which is why people want a classic server in the first place....because of their tendency to make changes with the most mass-appeal.
The #nochanges brigade will be spitting blood and giving birth to 5 headed goats in reaction outrage.
At this point ActiBlizz might as well just put the new character models in and rebrand Classic as "WoW 2.0".
It'll probably be GG if they announce that they are keeping the mount journal thing from live. 6 months after launch they'll probably just add heirlooms because "...there will be "a deliberate effort
to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had
exhausted an existing reward structure"...." etc." I mean the whole "people just dont have as much time as they used to" excuse is wearing thin. The whole point was because it wasn't meant for everyone. Just go play on live if you want things catered to you, freaking simple.
Oh agreed, it will be interesting to see what choice the players make, Classic or Live BFA. It may even lead to an existential crisis of WoW if they can't decide properly because of a blurring instead of a complete separation between the two games.
One Subscription to play them both. I think a lot of players will try Vanilla, maybe even fully level up a character and will be hit by endgame. You as player will have to be pro-active and entertain yourself. You'll need to find 39 others to do raids. You'll need to start farming/grinding materials (for hours) to make consumables. You'll need to take turns on receiving loot. You'll need to run to dungeon/raid instances. You'll be spending a lot time on drinking/eating between fights. You'll be alt-tabbed a lot when travelling by flightpath or waiting for boats.
Then people will start playing BFA and love the QOL improvements. Restarting their lone-wolf mindset and join that raidfinder.
Farming for soul shards - if you played a Warlock. Do I miss it? Absolutely not.
I did. It’s the RPG in mmo that so many are missing right now.
Blizzard may not know exactly what people mean by vanilla. Players may not know exactly what they want with vanilla. Blizzard know exactly what they want however: money.
"However, players will find that when new
things are added to the loot tables, there will be "a deliberate effort
to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had
exhausted an existing reward structure".
From the article:
"However, players of the original game found that when new things were added to the loot tables, there was "a deliberate effort to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had exhausted an existing reward structure". [...] That, however, will not be the case with Classic."
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems the article is saying the opposite of what you're quoting.
Classic will I think end up attracting and retaining the minority of players who don't have to ask what community building is, and have the time to put into it. Y'all don't have to play. Y'all do, obviously, feel compelled to bitch. This is part of your community building deficit. You have already decided I'm wrong.
Comments
Of course if you're socially crippled and the thought of having to join organised groups leaves you hyperventilating then crack on and play the complete shit show that is raid finder. Where you need absolutely no clue, no form of skill and no consumables, in fact you don't even need to play, if you do absolutely nothing in raid finder no one will notice you on meters n you can literally afk through.
Such massive quality of life improvements in WoW turned it from an MMO into a glorified lobby.
The reality is, their biggest market is all the players who never even started playing WoW until much later in the game... they are the one who "missed out" on all the early content that was bastardized along the way. This is their opportunity to actually play original WoW. Problem is, Blizzard is changing it, thus it will neither appeal to the old timers or the modern players.
Epic fail on the horizon.
Yes, that's what I was trying to say is that when expansions came into the picture the community part that Albatross mentioned crapped out. Each new expansion brought in New players but also lost many so it was like a high turn around work place with constantly changing work force and the re-hiring happened every expansion. I also brought up expansions because I don't expect them to leave classic to die if it drops in player numbers. I don't see current Blizzard investing a couple years into classic just to one day close up shop. I think they will do everything they can to keep players even if it means creating extra content that did not exist in vanilla if they think it'll be profitable. If they can maintain the feel of vanilla and not destroy that community and have a do over every time they release something that may seem like an expansion I wouldn't be opposed to new content in classic.
More people play games today than only the hardcore hobbyists. Even my 63 yo mother plays Mahjong almost daily. Any game i'd consider interesting enough to play is way too complicated and hard for her. Does this mean these games should be altered to meet my mother's standards? Of course not. We used to have games of different genres for different kind of gamers. Now we also need to take account the level of competence of people playing games. And the best solution is not, and never will be to make all games suitable for rookie level gamers.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Are you saying that once it's up and running, you want to more additions to the game, no new raids, no new dungeons, no ex-pacs etc?
If that is how I read it, how long until you get bored of doing the same thing over and over, consider that 7 or so expansions have created boredom in the many others who didn't mind them?
All those "7 or so" expansions changed the game so much that new dungeons and raids wasn't enough to keep people playing and paying. They rather play the game as it should be even if the price is finite content.
The game i keep seeing in my dreams plays like vanilla WoW but has all the content from the retail game. People will now have a chance to choose the one that is least broken and for many that is Classic.
I am not sure what part of VANILLA Blizzard didn't understand when the idea was brought up by many players.I would also expect that because money if their main focus that content will be soon sped up to a faster release than what happened originally.These very problems existed seeing SOE do this vanilla progression idea servers.Players know the game ,the areas,they know how to navigate much faster and do content much faster so the player base will also ignore the vanilla idea and start asking for new content.
SO what happens after all is said and done is this was never about vanilla but from the player standpoint they wanted the vanilla experience not the actual game change and from Blizzard they just want to keep more players happy,keep them spending money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Instead they seem to be racking their brains trying to please everyone which is why people want a classic server in the first place....because of their tendency to make changes with the most mass-appeal.
Players may not know exactly what they want with vanilla.
Blizzard know exactly what they want however: money.
From the article:
"However, players of the original game found that when new things were added to the loot tables, there was "a deliberate effort to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had exhausted an existing reward structure". [...] That, however, will not be the case with Classic."
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems the article is saying the opposite of what you're quoting.