I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.
If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.
How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.
I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.
If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.
How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.
Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes.
For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.
I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.
If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.
How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.
Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes.
For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.
It's a bit of an unfair criticism and expectation from an indie studio developing an MMO, though. Most MMOs don't have reactionary animations, at least from all the ones I remember.
As DMKano mentioned, since most MMOs are just auto-attacking, there won't likely be much effort put into that area.
Auto-attack MMO combat is like Colonial-era combat with musket lines -- people just stand in front of each other and take shots without any effort to not get hit.
It's something I'd like to see, but certainly am not expecting it from small indie companies trying to develop a full game world with limited resources.
I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.
If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.
How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.
It looks like everybody is hitting air in this game. Combat has to have impact.
I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.
If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.
How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.
Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes.
For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.
SWTOR tried something like when it launched and was forced to remove it because of massive complaints from the community.
The problem is that your character would spend too much time in dodge/block/parry animations that there would be conflicts with attack or movement animations.
You could use advanced animation blending but I dont think even that would fix the animation clipping issues that would arise when your character tries to do a special attack, block, dodge and move to the left all at the same time.
Thats why it wouldnt work and why you are not a video game developer.
I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.
If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.
How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.
Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes.
For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.
SWTOR tried something like when it launched and was forced to remove it because of massive complaints from the community.
The problem is that your character would spend too much time in dodge/block/parry animations that there would be conflicts with attack or movement animations.
You could use advanced animation blending but I dont think even that would fix the animation clipping issues that would arise when your character tries to do a special attack, block, dodge and move to the left all at the same time.
Thats why it wouldnt work and why you are not a video game developer.
Swtor made it so certain skills timed it with animation, the problem arose when you have different animations where the actual effect looks like it happens on a delay which meant that the ability happened on the same delay.
To be specific, SI had a stun on instant animation while JC stun happened at the end of the animation, in game terms that meant stun was always on a 0.3-0.5 seconds delay for the consular class. This meant that SI was better than its mirror simply because of how animations were made.
The reason why some fighting games have solid animations is because without animations the game falls short so therefore they spend a ton of money on getting it right. With MMORPG its not as important because its just a visualization of dice rolls.
Its about money and not about whether its possible or not.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Has anyone mentioned the level of detail in dem bricks on the wall or that dark dungeony lighting. That is pretty realistic compared to other games that have entire dungeons lit up bright as a hospital even though there isn't a single light around.
Very excited for this game, hope it actually gets released.
I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.
If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.
How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.
Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes.
For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.
I guess this is like comparing Fifa to soccer manager, even though soccer manager has improved in graphics over the years I think.
Glad to see Brasse back it , I just lost hope this project after her handling of Trions marketing and failure to respond to the community. The whole "if you dont like then dont play scenario" is permanetly seared into my brain. I won't ever support a project she is appart of.
I'm very on the fence. keeping in mind that this is 2019 and not 2004 I think and hope that things get looking and playing a lot smoother. I realize the idea and stage of development but... Yeah. The tech today could spice up an old school game way more than seems dreamed of here.
People thins FFXIV has slow boring combat? Just wait for this....
The difference being is that this is more like EQ1 and FF14 is more like WoW. Apples to Oranges.
So it'll suck even more then? I don't get your point. EQ has never had great...or even good combat. It was great in spite of it, not because of it.
Well I like slower more methodic combat. I loved XI and it was just as slow.
I loved FFXI too, but combat wasn't even close to the best thing about the game. Even then though, they at least had a lot more interesting things going on in that combat with weaponskills and skillchains and magic bursts. I've never seen anything close to that cool in EQ.
I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.
I too wondered why all the animations were not completed in this pre-alpha state. What are they doing, just sitting around playing games all day?
It wasn't a critique of the current videos, I was just laying out my expectations of a tab target/auto combat style of game and what I expect to see in the final product.
Fair enough. It just irks me when all I see is people squawking about animations or the like in pre-alpha preview videos. It's much the same with people bitching about things not being release ready in Early Access games on Steam.
People thins FFXIV has slow boring combat? Just wait for this....
The difference being is that this is more like EQ1 and FF14 is more like WoW. Apples to Oranges.
So it'll suck even more then? I don't get your point. EQ has never had great...or even good combat. It was great in spite of it, not because of it.
Eq would not be great by now a days standards but credit is due for it's time at THAT TIME.EQ was breaking ground on a great new mmorpg experience and unlike many modern games actually had group play although i would argue the EQ teams never got the group play done very well.
Sadly i feel after so many years,FFXI is the peak of combat/depth design,i have not seen a single developer try to go one up but instead i see lots of same old or doing less.
When you read over all the stuff on the Pantheon site there APPEARS to be a lot of promising talk there but seeing is believing.So far i am not seeing.I don't like to be too critical but WHEN is a good time to voice concern,after the game is done,it is way too late.
Yeah I alpha/beta tested Vanguard for over a year and in that game they listen to the masses crying for this feature and that feature. And they seem to try and add them all, the result was a bug full and unfinished game. To me as time went on the game became less and less fun to play but then many people seem to like it at release. It was the most fun to me at late alpha and early beta. I hope they have the sense in this game to ignore the people crying for this and that and follow whatever vision they have. I rather not end up with an unfinished bug filled mess again.
As far as FFXI goes, I didn't care for the combat in it but maybe I am the rare exception and everyone else loves it. As far as EQ goes, I have played lots of MMORPGs but never one that did groups any better than early EQ. In it no one was really a one man group and every class had an important role that they could bring to a group or raid. I am sure they will try and add all the stuff mentioned on the web site if it works out in game play as well as it sounds and is feasible. I sort of liked how they use to do games, you not hear a word about it until maybe a month or so before release but I know that is not really possible in a crowd funded game.
People thins FFXIV has slow boring combat? Just wait for this....
There are people who play Final Fantasy 14 and who love it. So for them the combat is not boring.
There will be people who will play Pantheon who will be fine with the combat (and at very least tolerate it) so the game will be for them.
It won't be for other people. that's as it should be.
Because, make the combat a fast blink and you'll miss it affair will then alienate the people who don't want that combat. Seems pretty smart to just find your audience and develop to them.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.
If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.
How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.
It looks like everybody is hitting air in this game. Combat has to have impact.
EQ1 never had impact in combat - it was never a problem, because its not that type of game at all.
In a action game yes, combat needs impact - but MUD based games - it's all about the underlying depth of systems, combat is merely a visual representation of die rolls and underlining math formulas
Expectations have changed since EQ1 so has the ability to do things like I described.
I would expect combat animations to have synchronization. e.g. if I'm a warrior and I block an attack or dodge, my character animation would show that. In today's day and age, tab targeting with auto-attack should really look like the characters are engaged and fighting each other. A glancing hit, vs a critical hit auto attack should show the sword swing and landing differently.
If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.
How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.
Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes.
For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.
I guess this is like comparing Fifa to soccer manager, even though soccer manager has improved in graphics over the years I think.
Yes, look it like FIFA vs Football Manager. FM 2019, has decent visuals and the gameplay that shows on the screen tells the story well, from diving saves, to tackles, red cards etc... I don't need a physics engine like FIFA, but i would like compelling visualization that shows the action on the screen.
I'm with the people that think it looks and plays terribly. Yes, it's not completely baked... but we're at 2019 and this is the trash they are delivering? It's not about flashy combat or perfect animations. It's about how utterly boring that class looks and how utterly boring the gameplay in general looks.
That shit used to pass back in the day for sure. But it is not, at least in the case of this game, passing anymore.
I expect a fanboy response from DMKano about how it looks great to him.
Comments
Nice progress though.
/Cheers,
Lanhnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
If the game was 1 vs 1 fighting then your criticism would have merit. However, the combat is not 1 vs 1.
How do you synchronize animations of dodge and block when the combat is 1 vs 5? You cant.
Yes you can, what are you talking about? I like to watch the fights. To me the presentation of the combat is just telling the story of the numbers and dice rolls behind the scenes. For example, 2 monsters swing at you, you dodge 1 and block the other. The third monster hits you. Your character on screen would show a doge, block with shield and then impact from a monster hit. That is very possible to do.
It looks like everybody is hitting air in this game. Combat has to have impact.
To be specific, SI had a stun on instant animation while JC stun happened at the end of the animation, in game terms that meant stun was always on a 0.3-0.5 seconds delay for the consular class. This meant that SI was better than its mirror simply because of how animations were made.
The reason why some fighting games have solid animations is because without animations the game falls short so therefore they spend a ton of money on getting it right. With MMORPG its not as important because its just a visualization of dice rolls.
Its about money and not about whether its possible or not.
Very excited for this game, hope it actually gets released.
I guess this is like comparing Fifa to soccer manager, even though soccer manager has improved in graphics over the years I think.
mmorpg junkie since 1999
I loved FFXI too, but combat wasn't even close to the best thing about the game. Even then though, they at least had a lot more interesting things going on in that combat with weaponskills and skillchains and magic bursts. I've never seen anything close to that cool in EQ.
Fair enough. It just irks me when all I see is people squawking about animations or the like in pre-alpha preview videos. It's much the same with people bitching about things not being release ready in Early Access games on Steam.
I hope they have the sense in this game to ignore the people crying for this and that and follow whatever vision they have. I rather not end up with an unfinished bug filled mess again.
As far as FFXI goes, I didn't care for the combat in it but maybe I am the rare exception and everyone else loves it.
As far as EQ goes, I have played lots of MMORPGs but never one that did groups any better than early EQ. In it no one was really a one man group and every class had an important role that they could bring to a group or raid.
I am sure they will try and add all the stuff mentioned on the web site if it works out in game play as well as it sounds and is feasible.
I sort of liked how they use to do games, you not hear a word about it until maybe a month or so before release but I know that is not really possible in a crowd funded game.
There are people who play Final Fantasy 14 and who love it. So for them the combat is not boring.
There will be people who will play Pantheon who will be fine with the combat (and at very least tolerate it) so the game will be for them.
It won't be for other people. that's as it should be.
Because, make the combat a fast blink and you'll miss it affair will then alienate the people who don't want that combat. Seems pretty smart to just find your audience and develop to them.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Expectations have changed since EQ1 so has the ability to do things like I described.
Yes, look it like FIFA vs Football Manager. FM 2019, has decent visuals and the gameplay that shows on the screen tells the story well, from diving saves, to tackles, red cards etc... I don't need a physics engine like FIFA, but i would like compelling visualization that shows the action on the screen.
That shit used to pass back in the day for sure. But it is not, at least in the case of this game, passing anymore.
I expect a fanboy response from DMKano about how it looks great to him.