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Blizzard killed off it's competitors by lucky coincidence.

13

Comments

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,067
    No. Most MMOs are copies of Everquest. EQ2 came out before WoW and did all those same things as well. WoW was just more polished and had a bigger IP. WoW didnt do anything new. It was just a new skin and easier to get into.  Vanilla WoW was grindy like every other game, had hardcore endgame that less than 5% of players ever played.
    You obviously didn't play EQ2 at release....It was a hardcore game...They completely revamped it after WoW came out and crushed it....In a panic move, they basically Wowified EQ2 to try and compete.
    It was really dumb what they did trying to run after the success of WoW and completely destroyed what made Everquest 2 unique. In my opinion it was the better game but not after they wowified it though.
    Hatefullmmolou
    Chamber of Chains
  • Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 570
    Question: Did they lose players after WoW came out? Were they unable to recover those subs and thus proceed to imitate WoW in an attempt to regain them?

  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    I still can't tell if Delete5230 is a masterful troll or a rambling madman


    HatefullCoorslite
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    I still can't tell if Delete5230 is a masterful troll or a rambling madman


    Probably just a case of dumb "luck."

    ;)
    HatefullimmodiumCoorslite

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    ikcin said:

    Furthermore, while all games share the same type of game theory designs and overall abilities and such, LoL and WoW aren't the same, though. MOBAs are a different genre than RPGs. 
    Really so all these classes which are the core of LoL are not RPG? An average MMORPG has how many classes? 4, 8, 20 maybe. LoL has 100. It has more RP than any MMORPG. And every class has story, lore, videos, tactics, sets, customization. How that is not RP? Mobas are not about VR and living in the game, as the games are much shorter. This is the only major difference among LoL and WoW. Deal with the facts, could you?
    They are not user created characters with their own stories. They are premades you choose, not create yourself and name yourself, and assume some identity with. Much like FPS games, you grab a premade as your toon in MOBAs.

    RPGs you create and customize your toon, as s/he's your hero. How you play it is upto your taste. Not some premade weapon you pick up and run off with.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    Kyleran said:
    I still can't tell if Delete5230 is a masterful troll or a rambling madman


    Probably just a case of dumb "luck."

    ;)
    Or just play the safe spot on the fence so everyone loves you here and contribute nothing.
  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    edited April 2019
    cheyane said:
    No. Most MMOs are copies of Everquest. EQ2 came out before WoW and did all those same things as well. WoW was just more polished and had a bigger IP. WoW didnt do anything new. It was just a new skin and easier to get into.  Vanilla WoW was grindy like every other game, had hardcore endgame that less than 5% of players ever played.
    You obviously didn't play EQ2 at release....It was a hardcore game...They completely revamped it after WoW came out and crushed it....In a panic move, they basically Wowified EQ2 to try and compete.
    It was really dumb what they did trying to run after the success of WoW and completely destroyed what made Everquest 2 unique. In my opinion it was the better game but not after they wowified it though.

    WoW was specifically designed to be easier than EQ2. Furor and company HATED the waits and all that, so they made a game that is more like a cross of a FPS game with a ARPG. They kept the bad stuff EQ/2 had (as even EQ/2 did away with ghostwalking, as the devs said it was purely a time gate mechanism), though.

    But the EQ/2 is plagued by how much WoW changed gaming itself. If it's not "WoW like" people won't play it. Years ago I returned to EvE and had a WTF moment, that they now had WoW and EQ/2 style levels. EvE is a skills game, not level game. 

    That's the disease video games face across gaming, to be unique FROM WoW.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    WoW did have the perfect storm.  I think people take for granted how refreshing a good UI and good content was at the time.  Good IP,  polish, already online fan base, emergence with high speed internet, niche competition with poor mechanical game play and ect just launched WoW into stratosphere. .

    Quest hubs have been beat to death.  WoW's UI was the default MMORPG UI for years.  Every developer wanted the pie and post WoW player base dwarfs pre WoW by a lot.  So the perfect storm of emulation happened because most MMORPG players view themepark synonymous with MMORPG.


    [Deleted User]Coorslite
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Kyleran said:
    I still can't tell if Delete5230 is a masterful troll or a rambling madman


    Probably just a case of dumb "luck."

    ;)
    Or just play the safe spot on the fence so everyone loves you here and contribute nothing.
    Naw, I mostly angle for the sardonic wit approach, coupled with a solid mix of cranky old curmudgeon and luddite. 

    Irony and puns are favorite tools with a light sprinkling of hyperbole when called for.

    Oh yes, my opinions? Definitely facts, no matter what others try to say otherwise.

    ;)

    Pro tip, best to never take me serious, few do.


    Hatefull

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,502
    Kyleran said:
    I still can't tell if Delete5230 is a masterful troll or a rambling madman


    Probably just a case of dumb "luck."

    ;)
    Or just play the safe spot on the fence so everyone loves you here and contribute nothing.
    I don't love him, AND he contributes a lot. You're wrong, these are facts because I said them.

    Totally serious...Bro.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,882
    Jamar870 said:
    Question: Did they lose players after WoW came out? Were they unable to recover those subs and thus proceed to imitate WoW in an attempt to regain them?

    EQ 2 didn't necessarily lose subs, as much as WoW gained popularity with people who hadn't been interested in MMOs before, and EQ 2 saw their chance to get broader audience if only they were more WoW.

    EQ 2 would likely have been ok and made a small profit just being EQ 2, but business like SOE isn't happy with small profit if their competitors game is making ten times more.
    Kyleran
     
  • krgwynnekrgwynne Member UncommonPosts: 119
    if you play wow from back then and play eq2 from back then you can easily tell why wow was more popular there game play was just better this is just my opinion though but the numbers show it was the opinion of many.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Vrika said:
    Jamar870 said:
    Question: Did they lose players after WoW came out? Were they unable to recover those subs and thus proceed to imitate WoW in an attempt to regain them?

    EQ 2 didn't necessarily lose subs, as much as WoW gained popularity with people who hadn't been interested in MMOs before, and EQ 2 saw their chance to get broader audience if only they were more WoW.

    EQ 2 would likely have been ok and made a small profit just being EQ 2, but business like SOE isn't happy with small profit if their competitors game is making ten times more.
    In the long run EQ2 might have been better served by remaining true to it's original designs.

    Once the shiny wore off of WOW some of the more old school style gamers would likely have been drawn back to EQ2, which they were of course, but what they found was more of the same instead of something which stood apart.

    Like you said, SOE didn't want to be 2nd fiddle, they revised / wrecked SWG for similar reasons.


    Coorslite

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    WoW did have the perfect storm.  I think people take for granted how refreshing a good UI and good content was at the time.  Good IP,  polish, already online fan base, emergence with high speed internet, niche competition with poor mechanical game play and ect just launched WoW into stratosphere. .

    Quest hubs have been beat to death.  WoW's UI was the default MMORPG UI for years.  Every developer wanted the pie and post WoW player base dwarfs pre WoW by a lot.  So the perfect storm of emulation happened because most MMORPG players view themepark synonymous with MMORPG.


    Absolutely how it went down,  
    Like or hate the game doesn't matter the above is true and obviously better worded than I could ever do. 


    The bottom line of my point......when mistakes were made that lost a LOT of players, ALL other developers followed..... They gambled on everyone of the mistakes and everyone lost.

    Blizzard can afford mistakes being king.


    @Vermillion_Raventhal
    Sorry I used your post as a reference, it's just that you hit the nail on what made Blizzard powerful.  By using this should in no way reflect your on my side.  I understand your not. I wouldn't want anyone to be dragged down and be hated too.
    Kyleran
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,556
    I would like to be Brandon Stark for a few minutes to see how things could have been if WoW was never made. Would the classic MMO format still be the norm or would there be something else.

    SOE in the top spot was pretty bad though with their attitude toward their customers if you can remember that far back.

    No one can deny that WoW coming on the scene permanently changed the MMO genre but whether it was good or bad is a matter of opinion. What WoW did to the MMO genre may have contributed to the success of other games that received large numbers of WoW refugees.

    Think we'll have to settle for AA from now on but that's ok with me.
  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,345
    edited April 2019
    Blizz are about to launch their own biggest competitor, WoW Classic. Which I think will ironically kill off WoW: BFA into a death spiral of empty ghost town servers with swollen populated Classic servers.
    [Deleted User]Galadournjimmywolf
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,882
    ikcin said:

    Furthermore, while all games share the same type of game theory designs and overall abilities and such, LoL and WoW aren't the same, though. MOBAs are a different genre than RPGs. 
    Really so all these classes which are the core of LoL are not RPG? An average MMORPG has how many classes? 4, 8, 20 maybe. LoL has 100. It has more RP than any MMORPG. And every class has story, lore, videos, tactics, sets, customization. How that is not RP? Mobas are not about VR and living in the game, as the games are much shorter. This is the only major difference among LoL and WoW. Deal with the facts, could you?
    How did we end up discussing about definition of RPG?

    Anyway far as computer games go, RPGs are normally games that focus on
     1. long-term character development, and
     2. either playing through a story or living in a world as its inhabitant

    It's not a strict definition and there are many different types of games that are called an RPG, but LoL is not classified as an RPG because it's quite far from what computer RPGs normally are and it fits much better to MOBA category (multiplayer online battle arena).
    Kyleranbcbully
     
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,882
    ikcin said:
    Vrika said:
    ikcin said:

    Furthermore, while all games share the same type of game theory designs and overall abilities and such, LoL and WoW aren't the same, though. MOBAs are a different genre than RPGs. 
    Really so all these classes which are the core of LoL are not RPG? An average MMORPG has how many classes? 4, 8, 20 maybe. LoL has 100. It has more RP than any MMORPG. And every class has story, lore, videos, tactics, sets, customization. How that is not RP? Mobas are not about VR and living in the game, as the games are much shorter. This is the only major difference among LoL and WoW. Deal with the facts, could you?
    How did we end up discussing about definition of RPG?

    Anyway far as computer games go, RPGs are normally games that focus on
     1. long-term character development, and
     2. either playing through a story or living in a world as its inhabitant

    It's not a strict definition and there are many different types of games that are called an RPG, but LoL is not classified as an RPG because it's quite far from what computer RPGs normally are and it fits much better to MOBA category (multiplayer online battle arena).
    Your idea of RPG is a nonsense. RPG is any game where you can play a role. And MOBA could be RPG, in fact usually it is, as the core of the most battle arenas are the separated roles of the players in the team. So usually the games like LoL are very good RPGs. As I pointed above the main difference with solo RPGs and MMORPGs is the duration of the game. So MOBAs offer a poor VR - living in the world. But VR and game are two very different things. 

    And that is related with the topic here. EQ and WoW are not great games, but they offered very good VR for the time they have been released. Obviously Kevyne-Shandris does not play WoW, he lives in WoW. Still the question for L2 and EVE is open. Would with the same advertisement L2 and EVE become as big or even bigger than WoW? As L2 offered better VR. And EVE is VR focused. 
    As far as playing the role goes, RPG is about taking a role of a character in the world, not about taking a role in a team.

    Someone taking a role in MOBA's team isn't playing an RPG any more than a goalkeeper in soccer is playing RPG.
    KyleranVermillion_Raventhalbcbully
     
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    nyxium said:
    Blizz are about to launch their own biggest competitor, WoW Classic. Which I think will ironically kill off WoW: BFA into a death spiral of empty ghost town servers with swollen populated Classic servers.
    Very interesting thought.  Classic could possibility go in a direction that no one could be expecting.  I hope so, not for spite but to make REAL expansions added to it.

    And if the above were true Blizzard would be in a tail spin to make it happen for it's own survival.

    The quickest way in an emergency would be to add Burning Crusades to it.  I hope not, I would like to see totally new vanilla style content.  Also with Blizzard being good at keeping secrets it could already be in the making :)
    Galadourn
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 1,081
    edited May 2019

    First some back round (if not skip to bottom),

    Lots of arguing about Blizzard, then I realized the argument is true, EVERYTHING is really about Blizzard.  Have you ever noticed if a poster mentions World of Warcraft everyone jumps in and has something to say ?......Good bad or indifferent…. It's always the most Hot Topic. Theirs a reason for that. 

    Blizzard is in control ! 

    Here's how everything mmoprg went down:

    It didn't start with World of Warcraft, but Blizzard "completely" shaped the market into what it is today. Since 2004 every Western mmorpg is World of Warcraft being just shy of copyrights and trademarks. 

    Blizzard on it's own decided on Family friendly easy, cross realm everything, pretty cosmetic cash shop items the list goes on. They didn't invent everything, Asian developers did most of the work. Blizzard "forced it" to be the standard here in the west…. All followed.

     

    It's a fact, as of late mmorpg's are not popular in gamming as they once were….It's Blizzards fault !!  


    Here is EXACTLY why:

    mmorpg's by themselves are "Dull and Lifeless".  Everyone of them from Ultima Online, EverQuest, Vanilla World of Warcraft, Vanguard, more recent Final Fantasy 14 and Elder Scrolls Online, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. 

    But if you take the "Dull and Lifeless" game and add community it's 100% different, one hundred and eighty degrees different !! 

    Community was the hallmark in the very early days.  It was the spark of something new, it was the twinkle in one's eye.  Classic Vanilla World of Warcraft came along and totally enhanced the early version and became #1

     

    Ok so what happened ?

    Blizzard CHANGED DIRECTION and all others followed down the rabbit hole.  They invented the solo experience with easy family and extremely accessible Looking for group tool. 

    Important:

    Being king, it was a mistake Blizzard could afford however they went from 11 million to 6 million.  And they refuse to embrace the cause….. Others following their formula and brought mmorpg's to a "dull and Lifeless" state of solo.  Do people still play mmorpg's ?.... Sure you'll have that when we have 7.5 Billion people on this planet. 


    By lucky coincidence, Blizzard was able to make unfortunate mistakes, cause it's competitors to follow, yet they them selfs were able to recover..... Blizzard is actually that strong ! 

    Disagree.  The market was formed and they recruited the competitions' best customers to advise them.  They won the MMORPG market due to that.  Also, Blizzard prioritizes polish, which is something the developers of games like EQ2, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, etc. absolutely did not do.

    They also develop tight, efficient code without an overemphasis on "realistic" graphics.  This ensures their games run on the widest possible machine configurations - which means their viable market potential was very high.

    Blizzard won in the first year of WoW, when companies like SOE failed to provide an alternative as good.  After that, it was all momentum - and online communities are slaves to numbers.  WoW was the biggest game, which is the primary driver that fueled its growth.  No one wants to play a dead game, or something so niche that it can cease to exist and wipe thousands of hours of your life away with it in short order (many hyped up MMORPGs barely lasted in this market).

    This "obsession" with "WoW" clones completely misses the point, and developers who tried to clone WoW completely missed the point.  WoW is WoW, and WoW was able to do what WoW did due to the specific market conditions surrounding its release.  You cannot clone WoW to compete with WoW.

    WoW is not EQ, EQ2, DAoC, UO, or any of those games that were on the market when it burst onto the scene; so trying to beat it at its own game isn't going to work.  It has already captured most of the market which wants "that game."

    I wouldn't bother with any "WoW Clone" when I could just go resub to WoW.  It still has millions of players.
    [Deleted User]KyleranCoorslite
  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,345
    nyxium said:
    Blizz are about to launch their own biggest competitor, WoW Classic. Which I think will ironically kill off WoW: BFA into a death spiral of empty ghost town servers with swollen populated Classic servers.
    Very interesting thought.  Classic could possibility go in a direction that no one could be expecting.  I hope so, not for spite but to make REAL expansions added to it.

    And if the above were true Blizzard would be in a tail spin to make it happen for it's own survival.

    The quickest way in an emergency would be to add Burning Crusades to it.  I hope not, I would like to see totally new vanilla style content.  Also with Blizzard being good at keeping secrets it could already be in the making :)
    Oh yes, it's popcorn time.
  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,813
    edited May 2019
    nyxium said:
    Blizz are about to launch their own biggest competitor, WoW Classic. Which I think will ironically kill off WoW: BFA into a death spiral of empty ghost town servers with swollen populated Classic servers.
    Very interesting thought.  Classic could possibility go in a direction that no one could be expecting.  I hope so, not for spite but to make REAL expansions added to it.

    And if the above were true Blizzard would be in a tail spin to make it happen for it's own survival.

    The quickest way in an emergency would be to add Burning Crusades to it.  I hope not, I would like to see totally new vanilla style content.  Also with Blizzard being good at keeping secrets it could already be in the making :)
    They could add all the raids of TBC to Vanilla (adjusting them to fit the 1.12 game mechanics). While this would demand some serious work for balancing and adjustment, it's nowhere near as demanding as designing and programming new content from scratch.

    That was the very early plan of the WoW team, the Black Temple, Kharazhan, Caverns of Time, etc. were intended to launch in the original game but were pushed to the backburner due to time constraints. These could be made into excellent level 60 raids/dungeons for Classic, without affecting anything else in the world design and game experience.

    EDIT:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-HFjHKJJ7E

    After Naxx the progression would be Karazhan>Black Morass (Caverns of Time)>Dark Portal (Outland)
    Post edited by Galadourn on
    KyleranCoorslite
  • sipusipu Member UncommonPosts: 200
    edited May 2019
    Galadourn said:
    nyxium said:
    Blizz are about to launch their own biggest competitor, WoW Classic. Which I think will ironically kill off WoW: BFA into a death spiral of empty ghost town servers with swollen populated Classic servers.
    Very interesting thought.  Classic could possibility go in a direction that no one could be expecting.  I hope so, not for spite but to make REAL expansions added to it.

    And if the above were true Blizzard would be in a tail spin to make it happen for it's own survival.

    The quickest way in an emergency would be to add Burning Crusades to it.  I hope not, I would like to see totally new vanilla style content.  Also with Blizzard being good at keeping secrets it could already be in the making :)
    They could add all the raids of TBC to Vanilla (adjusting them to fit the 1.12 game mechanics). While this would demand some serious work for balancing and adjustment, it's nowhere near as demanding as designing and programming new content from scratch.

    That was the very early plan of the WoW team, the Black Temple, Kharazhan, Caverns of Time, etc. were intended to launch in the original game but were pushed to the backburner due to time constraints. These could be made into excellent level 60 raids/dungeons for Classic, without affecting anything else in the world design and game experience.
    Classic means: "as it was" not "as it would be". At least this is what the vanilla audience wanted, not a hybrid of classic and other expansions.
  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,813
    And thus it will launch. What we are discussing here is what is probable to happen a few years down the road.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    Darksworm said:

    First some back round (if not skip to bottom),

    Lots of arguing about Blizzard, then I realized the argument is true, EVERYTHING is really about Blizzard.  Have you ever noticed if a poster mentions World of Warcraft everyone jumps in and has something to say ?......Good bad or indifferent…. It's always the most Hot Topic. Theirs a reason for that. 

    Blizzard is in control ! 

    Here's how everything mmoprg went down:

    It didn't start with World of Warcraft, but Blizzard "completely" shaped the market into what it is today. Since 2004 every Western mmorpg is World of Warcraft being just shy of copyrights and trademarks. 

    Blizzard on it's own decided on Family friendly easy, cross realm everything, pretty cosmetic cash shop items the list goes on. They didn't invent everything, Asian developers did most of the work. Blizzard "forced it" to be the standard here in the west…. All followed.

     

    It's a fact, as of late mmorpg's are not popular in gamming as they once were….It's Blizzards fault !!  


    Here is EXACTLY why:

    mmorpg's by themselves are "Dull and Lifeless".  Everyone of them from Ultima Online, EverQuest, Vanilla World of Warcraft, Vanguard, more recent Final Fantasy 14 and Elder Scrolls Online, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. 

    But if you take the "Dull and Lifeless" game and add community it's 100% different, one hundred and eighty degrees different !! 

    Community was the hallmark in the very early days.  It was the spark of something new, it was the twinkle in one's eye.  Classic Vanilla World of Warcraft came along and totally enhanced the early version and became #1

     

    Ok so what happened ?

    Blizzard CHANGED DIRECTION and all others followed down the rabbit hole.  They invented the solo experience with easy family and extremely accessible Looking for group tool. 

    Important:

    Being king, it was a mistake Blizzard could afford however they went from 11 million to 6 million.  And they refuse to embrace the cause….. Others following their formula and brought mmorpg's to a "dull and Lifeless" state of solo.  Do people still play mmorpg's ?.... Sure you'll have that when we have 7.5 Billion people on this planet. 


    By lucky coincidence, Blizzard was able to make unfortunate mistakes, cause it's competitors to follow, yet they them selfs were able to recover..... Blizzard is actually that strong ! 

    Disagree.  The market was formed and they recruited the competitions' best customers to advise them.  They won the MMORPG market due to that.  Also, Blizzard prioritizes polish, which is something the developers of games like EQ2, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, etc. absolutely did not do.

    They also develop tight, efficient code without an overemphasis on "realistic" graphics.  This ensures their games run on the widest possible machine configurations - which means their viable market potential was very high.

    Blizzard won in the first year of WoW, when companies like SOE failed to provide an alternative as good.  After that, it was all momentum - and online communities are slaves to numbers.  WoW was the biggest game, which is the primary driver that fueled its growth.  No one wants to play a dead game, or something so niche that it can cease to exist and wipe thousands of hours of your life away with it in short order (many hyped up MMORPGs barely lasted in this market).

    This "obsession" with "WoW" clones completely misses the point, and developers who tried to clone WoW completely missed the point.  WoW is WoW, and WoW was able to do what WoW did due to the specific market conditions surrounding its release.  You cannot clone WoW to compete with WoW.

    WoW is not EQ, EQ2, DAoC, UO, or any of those games that were on the market when it burst onto the scene; so trying to beat it at its own game isn't going to work.  It has already captured most of the market which wants "that game."

    I wouldn't bother with any "WoW Clone" when I could just go resub to WoW.  It still has millions of players.
    You say "disagree" 
    But it seems you "agree"

    How's that ?
    -First you talk about Wow's polish over it's former mmorpg's, making its the strongest. 

    -Then you talk about the obsession with others cloning WoW, making everyone follow.

    -Then you wouldn't bother with a clone of the mistakes.

    -Last you would still play WoW, because their so strong and able to recover from the mistakes.


    To me you make it seem you wouldn't follow WoW's mistakes that were added to other mmorpg's and not play them...... Sounds like you agree.
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