Cavil is just too pretty boy. He'd be better as Legolas' older and more troubled brother.
Yes exactly that...it's why I like him so much as superman. He can look serious but all the while keep that goody goody attitude or vibe which is why I am not sure he can pull off the witcher anti-hero esque attitude.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Despite all the tangents into other movies, video games do not have a very solid standing as source material for filmed works. (See Super Mario Brothers (1983) if you dare.) I'll hope that this production is good, but won't put anything of value at risk.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Well that's what I'm saying. If I'm writing about Feudal Japan then "I'm writing about Feudal Japan" and race would matter. I'm not going to write about Feudal Japan being entirely populated by the Spanish.
If I write a murder mystery it could have everyone black or everyone white or everyone a nice coffee color.
But if I write a murder mystery "specifically" set in old Persia or South Africa, then that is going to take into account the people. If I write a fantasy story then quite frankly I don't care how tan or pale the people are. Or light green.
The Witcher is the Polish Lord of the Rings. It's set in a fantasy Poland similar to how Kislev is fantasy Russia in Warhammer, and is about the people and myths of Poland. It makes about as much sense to replace white characters in The Witcher as it would to have a white actor play the Shogun in a feudal Japan fantasy.
Can you imagine if the Last Samurai was a white dude? Oh wait! I mean they did a great job of incorporating him into the story, but this is what Hollywood does.
The ideal is for people to just see actors acting.
When it comes to Europe the Romans did an extremely good job of mixing up all sorts of folks - from Northern Africa, Near and Middle East, Asia up to a point and Northern Europe. The Persians, Mongols and lots of other empires and wars did the same as well.
As a result some of the programs that research people ancestry can be pretty funny - not everyone expects mongrel history! That is what most of us are though.
Despite all the tangents into other movies, video games do not have a very solid standing as source material for filmed works. (See Super Mario Brothers (1983) if you dare.) I'll hope that this production is good, but won't put anything of value at risk.
The games are not the source, the books that pre-date the games are.
Having said that, with respect to people's expectations (as seen in this thread and other places) it's definitely the look from the games people are obsessing over.
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Well that's what I'm saying. If I'm writing about Feudal Japan then "I'm writing about Feudal Japan" and race would matter. I'm not going to write about Feudal Japan being entirely populated by the Spanish.
If I write a murder mystery it could have everyone black or everyone white or everyone a nice coffee color.
But if I write a murder mystery "specifically" set in old Persia or South Africa, then that is going to take into account the people. If I write a fantasy story then quite frankly I don't care how tan or pale the people are. Or light green.
The Witcher is the Polish Lord of the Rings. It's set in a fantasy Poland similar to how Kislev is fantasy Russia in Warhammer, and is about the people and myths of Poland. It makes about as much sense to replace white characters in The Witcher as it would to have a white actor play the Shogun in a feudal Japan fantasy.
Can you imagine if the Last Samurai was a white dude? Oh wait! I mean they did a great job of incorporating him into the story, but this is what Hollywood does.
Ken Watanabe gave an absolutely incredible performance in that role. Such screen presence... he absolutely dominated Cruise in that film. So the analogy is not correct. It would have been quite wrong for Cruise to play Katsumodo in that film and that would really have been analogous to what we are discussing here. It would have been wrong and ham-fisted there, same as here.
And to me... the worst part is NOT that they just would put out an open casting call and well, if they had a great actress that was a bit different from the part then they find a way to work it in. Nope. That's not what happened. Instead, they put out a call for a specific race which was different form the character as written and previously portrayed... meaning they just wanted to check a box.
Back to your analogy: It would have been very bad if they just put out a casting call and ended up with a white guy playing Katsumodo. It would have been a travesty if they specifically went looking for one. And that is the equivalent of what happened here.
By the way, I think it's an absolute shame that Watanabe never gained more fame and greater roles. I always envisioned him as the perfect Captain of a Starfleet vessel. Not a recast Capt Kirk, but his own character, on his own vessel. Instead, he's typecast in Godzilla and Pokemon movies. THAT is a shame and an utter waste of talent.
So to me, the correct discussion would be around creating new stories and characters that involve varying races, sexes, colors, religions whatever. NOT that we should ever retcon previous work to force checking a box.
The role that Cruise played in the movie was most certainly a Hollywood tripe or farce.
"Motoko Rich of The New York Times observed that the film has opened up a debate, "particularly among Asian-Americans and Japanese," about whether the film and others like it were "racist, naïve, well-intentioned, accurate – or all of the above."
The problem isn't whether certain story changes make sense, but rather why they were made. This could be said of the Ghostbuster remake, the Ocean's 8 movie, Star Wars and it's liberal use of sexuality emphasis ( which was never part of the original movie series ). It's not like people freaked out about Luke kissing his sister, because he didn't know Leia was his sister.
However, as I pointed out earlier. I enjoy movies that make sense, such as Wonder Woman, the Black Panther, and Red Sparrow to name a few. I'm sure there are a million female actresses who could have fit the role just as well without "checking Hollywood's equality boxes."
I honestly cannot follow what you are trying to say... I don't know if we agree or not. So I'll just leave it there
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Well that's what I'm saying. If I'm writing about Feudal Japan then "I'm writing about Feudal Japan" and race would matter. I'm not going to write about Feudal Japan being entirely populated by the Spanish.
If I write a murder mystery it could have everyone black or everyone white or everyone a nice coffee color.
But if I write a murder mystery "specifically" set in old Persia or South Africa, then that is going to take into account the people. If I write a fantasy story then quite frankly I don't care how tan or pale the people are. Or light green.
The Witcher is the Polish Lord of the Rings. It's set in a fantasy Poland similar to how Kislev is fantasy Russia in Warhammer, and is about the people and myths of Poland. It makes about as much sense to replace white characters in The Witcher as it would to have a white actor play the Shogun in a feudal Japan fantasy.
I agree. But when the creator of the work allows it then that's pretty much it.
I don't care what lore nerds say when the creator of any work is still alive and can still alter his/her work.
After the fact? Depends on what is documented, what author/creator has said.
I mean we know there were Black People in Europe during the Renaissance and most were not high up in Society, with a few odd exceptions (see Medici).
but just because Tolkien wrote from his European perspective and everyone is white except for the easterlings or whatever they are called, doesn't mean that Andrzej Sapkowski's white Witcher world has to stay a white witcher world if he's ok with it. As it seems he is.
Like I said, I'm more on the side of the creator of a work and being a creator of many works, I know that I have adapted and changed things along the way for one reason or another. And if someone changed something I didn't like I'd say stop and if someone changed something and persuaded me of its merit I'd give it my blessing.
The only comment I can find from him on the subject isn't endorsing race swapping the main characters. He said he supports the show portraying the diversity that is in The Witcher universe, which I take to mean portraying characters like Tea and Vea from Zerrikania.
Not sure, that's not how I read it so I'd like to see him actually make a statement toward the fact.
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Despite all the tangents into other movies, video games do not have a very solid standing as source material for filmed works. (See Super Mario Brothers (1983) if you dare.) I'll hope that this production is good, but won't put anything of value at risk.
The games are not the source, the books that pre-date the games are.
Having said that, with respect to people's expectations (as seen in this thread and other places) it's definitely the look from the games people are obsessing over.
Yes the game got his look pretty decent tbh. Geralt is older, wiser and it should look so as he spent lots of time fighting "monsters"...and men so the pretty boy look should be somewhat scrubbed away imo.
BTW not sure if some of you are aware but this isn't the first Witcher movie/tv series. Called Wiedźmin in 2001. It didn't do well as they just tried to cram too much in a 2 hour movie so in 2003 they made a 13 episode series which was more coherent.
The movie
removed the link in case copyright whining so actually just google Wiedźmin 2001 for the movie 2hr+ movie (it up in youtube) or look for 13 45minor so episodes.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Well that's what I'm saying. If I'm writing about Feudal Japan then "I'm writing about Feudal Japan" and race would matter. I'm not going to write about Feudal Japan being entirely populated by the Spanish.
If I write a murder mystery it could have everyone black or everyone white or everyone a nice coffee color.
But if I write a murder mystery "specifically" set in old Persia or South Africa, then that is going to take into account the people. If I write a fantasy story then quite frankly I don't care how tan or pale the people are. Or light green.
The Witcher is the Polish Lord of the Rings. It's set in a fantasy Poland similar to how Kislev is fantasy Russia in Warhammer, and is about the people and myths of Poland. It makes about as much sense to replace white characters in The Witcher as it would to have a white actor play the Shogun in a feudal Japan fantasy.
Can you imagine if the Last Samurai was a white dude? Oh wait! I mean they did a great job of incorporating him into the story, but this is what Hollywood does.
Ken Watanabe gave an absolutely incredible performance in that role. Such screen presence... he absolutely dominated Cruise in that film. So the analogy is not correct. It would have been quite wrong for Cruise to play Katsumodo in that film and that would really have been analogous to what we are discussing here. It would have been wrong and ham-fisted there, same as here.
And to me... the worst part is NOT that they just would put out an open casting call and well, if they had a great actress that was a bit different from the part then they find a way to work it in. Nope. That's not what happened. Instead, they put out a call for a specific race which was different form the character as written and previously portrayed... meaning they just wanted to check a box.
Back to your analogy: It would have been very bad if they just put out a casting call and ended up with a white guy playing Katsumodo. It would have been a travesty if they specifically went looking for one. And that is the equivalent of what happened here.
By the way, I think it's an absolute shame that Watanabe never gained more fame and greater roles. I always envisioned him as the perfect Captain of a Starfleet vessel. Not a recast Capt Kirk, but his own character, on his own vessel. Instead, he's typecast in Godzilla and Pokemon movies. THAT is a shame and an utter waste of talent.
So to me, the correct discussion would be around creating new stories and characters that involve varying races, sexes, colors, religions whatever. NOT that we should ever retcon previous work to force checking a box.
The role that Cruise played in the movie was most certainly a Hollywood tripe or farce.
"Motoko Rich of The New York Times observed that the film has opened up a debate, "particularly among Asian-Americans and Japanese," about whether the film and others like it were "racist, naïve, well-intentioned, accurate – or all of the above."
The problem isn't whether certain story changes make sense, but rather why they were made. This could be said of the Ghostbuster remake, the Ocean's 8 movie, Star Wars and it's liberal use of sexuality emphasis ( which was never part of the original movie series ). It's not like people freaked out about Luke kissing his sister, because he didn't know Leia was his sister.
However, as I pointed out earlier. I enjoy movies that make sense, such as Wonder Woman, the Black Panther, and Red Sparrow to name a few. I'm sure there are a million female actresses who could have fit the role just as well without "checking Hollywood's equality boxes."
I honestly cannot follow what you are trying to say... I don't know if we agree or not. So I'll just leave it there
I'm almost certain Cruise was chosen for his "popularity" as well as what I mentioned about America being contriving in their portrayal of Americans as the savior in almost all movies, regardless of the story. They didn't put Cruise in that role because it made sense, they made sense of the role so they could fit Cruise in the movie.
Sure. They undoubtedly put Cruise in the movie because he was a mega-movie star. I do not know, but I would not be surprised at all if it was developed around him. But I'm not sure what that has to do with changing an existing character in an existing story. To draw a parallel to this Witcher discussion would have been if they cast Cruise as Katsumodo. Which they obviously did not do.
So again:
So to me, the correct discussion would be around creating new stories and characters that involve varying races, sexes, colors, religions whatever. NOT that we should ever retcon previous work to force checking a box.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
He looks the part, but his swordsmanship is painful to watch. His fight scenes in GoT are among the worse in the series, and he didn't get better from his fight with Ned to his fight with Brienne. Having him be the star of a series about a guy who sword fights for a living would just not work.
On the Last Samurai topic, I think people misread that movie if they see a "white savior" flick. TLS is a story about a man who hates himself, his culture and his people (white people), and who finds peace by completely subsuming himself in another culture. He then fails miserably at saving his new culture, which is kind of the opposite of a white savior movie.
Comments
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
When it comes to Europe the Romans did an extremely good job of mixing up all sorts of folks - from Northern Africa, Near and Middle East, Asia up to a point and Northern Europe. The Persians, Mongols and lots of other empires and wars did the same as well.
As a result some of the programs that research people ancestry can be pretty funny - not everyone expects mongrel history! That is what most of us are though.
Having said that, with respect to people's expectations (as seen in this thread and other places) it's definitely the look from the games people are obsessing over.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
So again:
So to me, the correct discussion would be around creating new stories and characters that involve varying races, sexes, colors, religions whatever. NOT that we should ever retcon previous work to force checking a box.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
In this case it's a wait and see situation.