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Pantheon Devs: 'We Want to Produce the UNexpected' While Keeping It Fun & Meaningful - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126

imagePantheon Devs: 'We Want to Produce the UNexpected' While Keeping It Fun & Meaningful - MMORPG.com

The latest Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen newsletter has hit inboxes everywhere, this time with a look at how the developers are working to ensure that the game is something players expect, but simultaneously, featuring the UNexpected as well. Players can "expect an emphasis on social gameplay" that is both rewarding and memorable -- all the while with little surprises thrown in. "Expect wonder. Expect to have to think differently about people, environments & the world you occupy."

Read the full story here



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Comments

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,489
    edited April 17
    Why am I getting a Crowfall vibe from this....? After Crowfall started announcing 'new stuff' they spent the next 3-4 years talking about it.....Dont try to re-invent the wheel and just stick to deadlines....stuff can always be added post launch....
    DMKanoTorvalKumaponMargrave
  • KumaponKumapon Member RarePosts: 1,243
    I still don't understand why they decided to try and cram all this stuff into a brand new game when they have such a small team. Why try and get all these revolutionary systems that have never been tried in an MMO before ?

    I mean if you had a team of 300 people sure but they have like a dozen? It seems like they have bit off way more then they can chew. With Project Farthall being the 1 zone they were going to go live with all these systems, and its been silent. I am getting the feeling that the stuff is just not working.

    They should have just started out with a solid core game and planned on expansions to introduce the new systems once the game could sustain itself. Getting this game launched with what they say they want to do would have been a challenge with the funding and staffing of a AAA game studio. But when you got folks working out of your garage you need to avoid scope creep.
    AmathejimmywolfTorvalSamhael
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,743
    edited April 17
    Loading, please wait ..... Polishing ladders for climbing.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,489
    edited April 17

    Kumapon said:

    I still don't understand why they decided to try and cram all this stuff into a brand new game when they have such a small team. Why try and get all these revolutionary systems that have never been tried in an MMO before ?



    I mean if you had a team of 300 people sure but they have like a dozen? It seems like they have bit off way more then they can chew. With Project Farthall being the 1 zone they were going to go live with all these systems, and its been silent. I am getting the feeling that the stuff is just not working.



    They should have just started out with a solid core game and planned on expansions to introduce the new systems once the game could sustain itself. Getting this game launched with what they say they want to do would have been a challenge with the funding and staffing of a AAA game studio. But when you got folks working out of your garage you need to avoid scope creep.




    That's the real issue with indie mmorpg development in general (aside from financial priority, but it closely ties together as well). When you're dealing with a corporate company, you're given X amount of funding and have to decide what makes it and what doesn't within a given time frame. Most of these teams seem to think they need to release a 'complete' mmorpg without realizing that EVERY mmorpg is released unfinished and relies on patches/expansions to fully flesh it out. People who backed this project just wanted something that stuck to the original ideology of mmorpgs in the past that involved a lot of time and team work to progress. We're not asking to flip off buildings like an Assassin Creed game (at least I dont feel most backers are....). Besides, didnt BDO add parkour to its environment post launch?
    KumaponAmatheScotjimmywolf
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,069
    edited April 17

    Albatroes said:



    Kumapon said:


    I still don't understand why they decided to try and cram all this stuff into a brand new game when they have such a small team. Why try and get all these revolutionary systems that have never been tried in an MMO before ?





    I mean if you had a team of 300 people sure but they have like a dozen? It seems like they have bit off way more then they can chew. With Project Farthall being the 1 zone they were going to go live with all these systems, and its been silent. I am getting the feeling that the stuff is just not working.





    They should have just started out with a solid core game and planned on expansions to introduce the new systems once the game could sustain itself. Getting this game launched with what they say they want to do would have been a challenge with the funding and staffing of a AAA game studio. But when you got folks working out of your garage you need to avoid scope creep.








    That's the real issue with indie mmorpg development in general (aside from financial priority, but it closely ties together as well). When you're dealing with a corporate company, you're given X amount of funding and have to decide what makes it and what doesn't within a given time frame. Most of these teams seem to think they need to release a 'complete' mmorpg without realizing that EVERY mmorpg is released unfinished and relies on patches/expansions to fully flesh it out. People who backed this project just wanted something that stuck to the original ideology of mmorpgs in the past that involved a lot of time and team work to progress. We're not asking to flip off buildings like an Assassin Creed game (at least I dont feel most backers are....). Besides, didnt BDO add parkour to its environment post launch?



    In Black Desert, you could climb over things and slide around at launch. is there a more in depth parkour system?

    I don't really think "climbing" is going to break the bank on Pantheon.
    Also, while players might just want a game that sticks to old tenants, developers are also creatives and they want to make something that they "want to make."

    It's very true that feature bloat can be the death of a game but I think they can add climbing and it will be fine.



  • bobbymcswansonbobbymcswanson Member UncommonPosts: 171
    "expect an emphasis on social gameplay" ......oh boy....can't wait to see the 10 people left playing MMORPGs reactions to this...."uhh...I should be able to solo the whole game and then conquer the demon king in like a week....don't force me to group"
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,182
    At this point they should be focused on just trying to match the depth and quality of vanilla EQ1 systems. 

    If Pantheon fails to even match vanilla EQ1 in depth of gameplay- it's all pointless as they wont stand a chance of surviving even 6 months.
    AmatheGdemamiMisterZebubjimmywolfdragonlee66tadams2toneKyleranAlbatroesKumaponmysticmouseand 1 other.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,830
    Just be a prettier Vanguard with less bugs and better UI....

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    rounnerperrin82kedo
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,286
    Interesting.  I wonder what prompted the following comment.

    [quote]
    If it doesn’t feel a natural part of the game or doesn’t fit in with the world of Terminus, then we will shelve it. That’s a tough call to make, particularly for some systems or content that seem exciting on paper but just don’t feel right when implemented.
    [/quote]

    I really hope they aren't hitting a roadblock with something.  They aren't attempting enough innovation with Pantheon for my tastes.  Having to cut back on the little they are doing would be very disappointing.  I applaud their sentiment, but let's see what actually makes the release and what doesn't.

    Overall, I've been disappointed with the innovations planned for Pantheon, feeling the announced changes are only minor tweaks and semantic name changes rather than true innovations.  This entire announcement seems to be an attempt to put a 'positive spin' on something.  I hope I'm wrong.



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,182
    Mendel said:
    Interesting.  I wonder what prompted the following comment.

    [quote]
    If it doesn’t feel a natural part of the game or doesn’t fit in with the world of Terminus, then we will shelve it. That’s a tough call to make, particularly for some systems or content that seem exciting on paper but just don’t feel right when implemented.
    [/quote]

    I really hope they aren't hitting a roadblock with something.  They aren't attempting enough innovation with Pantheon for my tastes.  Having to cut back on the little they are doing would be very disappointing.  I applaud their sentiment, but let's see what actually makes the release and what doesn't.

    Overall, I've been disappointed with the innovations planned for Pantheon, feeling the announced changes are only minor tweaks and semantic name changes rather than true innovations.  This entire announcement seems to be an attempt to put a 'positive spin' on something.  I hope I'm wrong.




    I think they are facing the reality of typical mmo development- features get cut due to many factors from - too time/resource intensive all the way to sounds good on paper but sucks in reality 
    Mendeltadams2tone
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,637
    Stalling with hope and words. Almost certain now that all of the older MMO crowdfunded guys are looking for a buyer like Ashes got with my.com.

    If you look at Pantheon, CF, CU creators history they luv that company buyout so not expecting any of these games to come out until that happens.

    Everyone start emailing Bandai Namco, Amazon, Perfect World maybe even Epic exclusive so we can see these games sometime before 2025. Guarantee if they get picked up all those games come out within a year...
    Rhoklaw
  • SamhaelSamhael Member RarePosts: 1,238

    lahnmir said:

    Just be a prettier Vanguard with less bugs and better UI....

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir



    We HOPE.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,962
    edited April 17
    DMKano said:
    Mendel said:
    Interesting.  I wonder what prompted the following comment.

    [quote]
    If it doesn’t feel a natural part of the game or doesn’t fit in with the world of Terminus, then we will shelve it. That’s a tough call to make, particularly for some systems or content that seem exciting on paper but just don’t feel right when implemented.
    [/quote]

    I really hope they aren't hitting a roadblock with something.  They aren't attempting enough innovation with Pantheon for my tastes.  Having to cut back on the little they are doing would be very disappointing.  I applaud their sentiment, but let's see what actually makes the release and what doesn't.

    Overall, I've been disappointed with the innovations planned for Pantheon, feeling the announced changes are only minor tweaks and semantic name changes rather than true innovations.  This entire announcement seems to be an attempt to put a 'positive spin' on something.  I hope I'm wrong.




    I think they are facing the reality of typical mmo development- features get cut due to many factors from - too time/resource intensive all the way to sounds good on paper but sucks in reality 
    The reality is every studio is burning down their available funding as more time passes, and except for perhaps Roberts Industries is a wall they all hurdle headlong towards.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,454
    edited April 17
    Depth of the systems is what i expect.Example i don't want a simple game of kill,get xp,get loot,in a group.I want REASON.
    As well don't be sending me in to dungeons 24/7 or instances,i EXPECT a mmo top be an open ended world.I also want it to play realistically,if i am standing watching a group,i should be able to heal those players if i want,i shouldn't have to be in the group.

    I am just tired of single player game designs with a gimmick or two a few twists,if it still feels like a single player design with forced grouping ,it doesn't feel like a good game.

    "Keep us intrigued or surprised"sure sounds great but i still need the GAME to be more than a WOW or EQ clone.Point being,it is great to often feel like it is a wondrous adventure but if every few steps i am shaking my head in disbelief it just turns me off.Example of game play....GREAT....awesome...hmmim going to eat some food >>>OOC only....DELETE .I can't stand seeing DUMB ideas.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,489
    Wizardry said:
    Depth of the systems is what i expect.Example i don't want a simple game of kill,get xp,get loot,in a group.I want REASON.
    As well don't be sending me in to dungeons 24/7 or instances,i EXPECT a mmo top be an open ended world.I also want it to play realistically,if i am standing watching a group,i should be able to heal those players if i want,i shouldn't have to be in the group.

    I am just tired of single player game designs with a gimmick or two a few twists,if it still feels like a single player design with forced grouping ,it doesn't feel like a good game.

    "Keep us intrigued or surprised"sure sounds great but i still need the GAME to be more than a WOW or EQ clone.Point being,it is great to often feel like it is a wondrous adventure but if every few steps i am shaking my head in disbelief it just turns me off.Example of game play....GREAT....awesome...hmmim going to eat some food >>>OOC only....DELETE .I can't stand seeing DUMB ideas.
    Exactly. Things like this, especially with a studio of its size and funding, need to just focus on getting the core game done first and into proper testing if things are 'ahead of schedule' instead of looking for more things to do/add. No one is telling them not to be 'creative,' just to get the core things done first and out, then you can add stuff like this down the line. Its all about priorities. Once this game is out into the world, then can start getting a broader range of funding which will contribute to more features etc.
    Kumapon
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,062
    Its as if you all actually think you know what your'e talking about. Speculations, assumptions, accusations, condemning, doom and gloom. That's all I get from these posts. Nothing positive at all you all sound like a bunch of bitter old jaded gamer's lol. Lighten up!!

    I will be the one to wait and see and not judge before there is something to judge.
    Arteriusda9elbs
  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 1,876

    BruceYee said:

    Stalling with hope and words. Almost certain now that all of the older MMO crowdfunded guys are looking for a buyer like Ashes got with my.com.



    If you look at Pantheon, CF, CU creators history they luv that company buyout so not expecting any of these games to come out until that happens.



    Everyone start emailing Bandai Namco, Amazon, Perfect World maybe even Epic exclusive so we can see these games sometime before 2025. Guarantee if they get picked up all those games come out within a year...



    I am pretty sure reading years back that someone did try to buy there game to publish. They turned it down because of there history with Vanguard and the like. I could be wrong and to be honest I am not going to try to find the answer. I am 99% sure though I read that when I was looking into the game and backing it.
  • WhiskyjumperWhiskyjumper Member UncommonPosts: 61
    Am I the only one that hates the world name, Terminus? It just doesn't feel right for this game. I have been hoping they would choose to change it but I guess that isn't happening.
    AmatheKyleranMendelperrin82
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 987
    edited April 19

    DMKano said:

    At this point they should be focused on just trying to match the depth and quality of vanilla EQ1 systems. 

    If Pantheon fails to even match vanilla EQ1 in depth of gameplay- it's all pointless as they wont stand a chance of surviving even 6 months.



    That's not hard, since EQ Vanilla had basically no depth in gameplay. You people are almost as good at bamboozling us as these developers.

    Wasn't this game supposedly due in 2017, then Late 2018? Now we're almost in the middle of 2019?

    I wonder how many people backed this game because they though tit was due out in the not-distance future. Seems like these release dates and the "Pre-Alpha" hype is used to drum up excitement and raid people's wallets, even when they know these games are several years from release...

    If they ever even get that far.

    If all they wanted to do was match vanilla EQ, this would have launched in 2016 and they'd have just updated it through expansions, etc. as they went along. That's not a high bar to achieve, since EQ is a pretty simple game, mechanically, with very shallow gameplay. What complexity does exist in EQ came after years of updates. Up through Velious, Lol... Seriously... It was the early days, so we were okay with that... but expectations have changed, since then, even with EQ players (most of which will never go back to that, except on a temporary basis for a progression server).
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 987

    Samhael said:



    lahnmir said:


    Just be a prettier Vanguard with less bugs and better UI....

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir






    We HOPE.



    What we've seen, thus far, is not promising - IMO. Feels more like "Old EQ" than Vanguard, adn that's not a good thing; despite what a few ubers here would have you believe.
    TheocritusMendelVorthanion
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,038
    Darksworm said:

    Samhael said:



    lahnmir said:


    Just be a prettier Vanguard with less bugs and better UI....

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir






    We HOPE.



    What we've seen, thus far, is not promising - IMO. Feels more like "Old EQ" than Vanguard, adn that's not a good thing; despite what a few ubers here would have you believe.
    Same...i have not seen anything in the youtube videos that makes me even want to look at it....It looks like extremely slow, boring combat which is a killer in 2019 for many of us.
    Mendel
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,069
    Darksworm said:

    DMKano said:

    At this point they should be focused on just trying to match the depth and quality of vanilla EQ1 systems. 

    If Pantheon fails to even match vanilla EQ1 in depth of gameplay- it's all pointless as they wont stand a chance of surviving even 6 months.





    Wasn't this game supposedly due in 2017, then Late 2018? Now we're almost in the middle of 2019?


    not that I know of. It didn't make it's 2014 kickstarter. That was about it. I don't ever remember them saying it was going to release in x year.

    But maybe it's somewhere? I've been a backer and a follower but haven't seen that. It was more like "it will be done when it's done."
    Kylerankedo



  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,007
    Sovrath said:
    Darksworm said:

    DMKano said:

    At this point they should be focused on just trying to match the depth and quality of vanilla EQ1 systems. 

    If Pantheon fails to even match vanilla EQ1 in depth of gameplay- it's all pointless as they wont stand a chance of surviving even 6 months.





    Wasn't this game supposedly due in 2017, then Late 2018? Now we're almost in the middle of 2019?


    not that I know of. It didn't make it's 2014 kickstarter. That was about it. I don't ever remember them saying it was going to release in x year.

    But maybe it's somewhere? I've been a backer and a follower but haven't seen that. It was more like "it will be done when it's done."

    Visionary Realms Aqcuires Seed Funding, Completes Prototype for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

    Posted date / 09.28.15

    Visionary Realms aims to begin Pantheon’s alpha phase by the end of the year, ultimately targeting a 2017 release.

    Link


    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,069
    Shaigh said:
    Sovrath said:
    Darksworm said:

    DMKano said:

    At this point they should be focused on just trying to match the depth and quality of vanilla EQ1 systems. 

    If Pantheon fails to even match vanilla EQ1 in depth of gameplay- it's all pointless as they wont stand a chance of surviving even 6 months.





    Wasn't this game supposedly due in 2017, then Late 2018? Now we're almost in the middle of 2019?


    not that I know of. It didn't make it's 2014 kickstarter. That was about it. I don't ever remember them saying it was going to release in x year.

    But maybe it's somewhere? I've been a backer and a follower but haven't seen that. It was more like "it will be done when it's done."

    Visionary Realms Aqcuires Seed Funding, Completes Prototype for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

    Posted date / 09.28.15

    Visionary Realms aims to begin Pantheon’s alpha phase by the end of the year, ultimately targeting a 2017 release.

    Link


    lol, well then someone needs to change that little bit!

    thanks for the link.



  • mmosfetxmmosfetx Member UncommonPosts: 3
    I'll be first in line to buy, subscribe, and play this game when its released. I was burned by EQ Next long ago so backing a game is not my thing. I do however support the vision of this game. Thank you to those who work to make it possible.
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