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Black desert online seems to do very well

AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,222
I don't play black desert online.  I'm just shocked when I hear the black desert franchise have reach 1 billion$ in gross sales.  I also heard runescape posting some respectable number.

I don't know why people keep saying the genre are dead.  The genre may be dead for many people, since they can't find a mmorpg they enjoy.  Most plenty of people still enjoying and playing.
UngoodPhryAzaron_NightbladeMaurgrim
«13

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,854
    AAAMEOW said:
    I don't play black desert online.  I'm just shocked when I hear the black desert franchise have reach 1 billion$ in gross sales.  I also heard runescape posting some respectable number.

    I don't know why people keep saying the genre are dead.  The genre may be dead for many people, since they can't find a mmorpg they enjoy.  Most plenty of people still enjoying and playing.
    Not much new on the horizon in AAA space is why, you are holding up a 4 year old game which is now making much of its revenue from mobile sales as an indicator of MMORPG health?

    Here's an interesting point, tens of millions of gamers aren't playing MMORPGs, they are off spending their dough on Fortnite, PGO or God knows what.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    AAAMEOW said:
    I don't play black desert online.  I'm just shocked when I hear the black desert franchise have reach 1 billion$ in gross sales.  I also heard runescape posting some respectable number.

    I don't know why people keep saying the genre are dead.  The genre may be dead for many people, since they can't find a mmorpg they enjoy.  Most plenty of people still enjoying and playing.
    This is very misleading as that sum you point is actually the revenue from BDO since the start of the open beta in Korea in 2014 and includes also the revenue from the mobile version of the game. 
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,673
    edited April 2019
    I haven't followed it, but I'm wondering what everybody thinks of the game, OUTSIDE of the cash shop issues?

    Once upon a time....

  • ananitananit Member UncommonPosts: 276
    I haven't followed it, but I'm wondering what everybody thinks of the game, OUTSIDE of the cash shop issues?
    you can't dissociate them. the game has litteraly been designed around the cash shop. the entirety of the progression has been thought and designed around maximizing cash interactions at every corners. that's most asian mmos for you :neutral:
    other than that, the game is beautiful and i personnaly love the combat. every else needs to burn in a dumpster fire.
    GdemamidoomexAzaron_Nightblade
  • ZiCrOZiCrO Member UncommonPosts: 9
    I haven't followed it, but I'm wondering what everybody thinks of the game, OUTSIDE of the cash shop issues?
    I go back to playing it every now and then and try hard to like it as I think it is one of the best MMO's to be released in recent years. The game's fighting mechanics are great and the pve isn't bad along with the questing/crafting etc which is quite good. Also the game looks great.

    The cash shop is at a very aggressive "pay for convenience" but honestly you'll be left behind if you don't spend some money on inventory slots/pets etc.

    As much I try to love the game as I'm desperate for a good MMO the game somehow keeps burning me out with its very repetitive grind and what feels like pointless pvp and next to no endgame. Some added dungeons and risk/reward type pvp and pve I think would help it from feeling like such a grind.

    I want the same feeling as when you play a game like Rust to be in a MMO that gives it some meaning and excitement.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,875
    BDO is a great game, I personally really disliked their UI, it was the apex of being anti-intuitive, so, it always made playing a chore to do basic things.. which killed all the fun for me. But, to anyone that did not have an issue with the UI, the game world, combat, and features and design style are amazing. Really top notch game and I can fully see why they made 1 billion so far.
    Phry
  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,120
    I can see why they made a billion. You can say all you want about the bad qualities, but it also has that key everyone demands, gameplay. Their instancing system is simply top notch.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,178
    I am enjoying it...its a bit of a grind beyond 56 but most MMOs are....The graphics are great and alot to do even if afk.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,925
    edited April 2019
    Ungood said:
    BDO is a great game, I personally really disliked their UI, it was the apex of being anti-intuitive, so, it always made playing a chore to do basic things.. which killed all the fun for me. But, to anyone that did not have an issue with the UI, the game world, combat, and features and design style are amazing. Really top notch game and I can fully see why they made 1 billion so far.

    They made 1 billion because they found an amazing way to fleece their playerbase for as much money as possible via cash shop.

    It would be a great game if they removed some absolutley atrocious systems:

    1. RNG with RNG on top of more RNG  - gear upgrade system

    2. Every class in game is DPS

    3. Out of 17 classes only a handful is viable in PvP

    4. PvE combat is a joke from 1 to 60+, world bosses = gangbang with horrible performance 

    5.Best in slot gear is identical for every class - yeah ehm... 

    6. The game is a cheaters paradise due to lots of client side code and lack of server checks

    7. They shut down their BR arena because of rampant cheating that they failed to curb

    8. All game systems lead to - cash shop!
      - in game armor looks like ass - $30 and it's fixed
      - want to repair gear at 4x mem frag effectiveness- artisan mem in cash shop  can help
      - need valks mem or cron stones for safe upgrade - buy a bunch of those $30 costumes and melt them!
      - want to sell something in auction house but hate the 30% profit loss- buy a value pack in cash shop!
    - dont  have T4 pets - spend a crapload on cash shop
    shop
    - need more inv slots? Bank slots? - cha ching
    - getting encumbered too quickly? $$$
    - training horses but getting crap skills? Cash shop reroll
    - want to process something immediately? Cha ching
    - want to fish better, swim better, train horses faster... there's a cash shop outfit that can help
    - etc....

    Cash shop has a fix for any problem in BDO

    That's why they made 1bil - the core playerbase is spending $300+ a month

    AmarantharikcinGdemamiPhrydoomexKyleranScot
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,764
    I highly doubt BDO does well as a rpg,i would bet it survives on pvp and a cash shop that feeds it.
    Remove the cash shop and the pvp,see if there is more than 100 people left.
    Phry

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    edited April 2019
    Wizardry said:
    I highly doubt BDO does well as a rpg,i would bet it survives on pvp and a cash shop that feeds it.
    Remove the cash shop and the pvp,see if there is more than 100 people left.
    Since you've repeated this 'RPG' comment over about 3 topics in a row now.. Can you explain to us why you seem to think an RPG means you get to decide everything yourself? I mean, RPG originally comes from tabletop games, like Dungeons & Dragons, where you had a Gamemaster who pre-planned and then told you your multi-arc story. It was the Gamemaster's story, not yours. You literally just picked a character and than played 'their' game.
    wingoodPhry
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 585
    BDO is a fun casual game. The more dedicated you are to it, the less you will enjoy it.

    Positives:
    Beautiful graphics with a realistic look to the world. It doesn't have your typical Asian art style with exaggerated features and cartoonish monsters. It looks very Western (Occidental, not Cowboy), which is a nice change from most MMOs that are out.

    Fun, fast paced combat with a lot of skill variety so that you can mix things up and not just do one wombo combo over and over. Every class has ~50 skills to choose from.

    Endless progression that allows you to always have a goal to log in and play for. While you can get your core skills as you level, the massive array of abilities to choose from will take you thousands of hours to unlock them all. I get on and say "I want to earn enough skill points to train fireball III tonight", or I want to grind some silver and upgrade a piece of gear. BDO is not an instant gratification game. It has the old EQ feel where you weren't racing to end game because the journey is enjoyable.

    Huge open world with tons of content. As a new player you have years of gameplay ahead of you before you experience everything and they're still actively adding new areas and revamping old content to make it better. There's a huge variety of things to do: mob grinding, world bosses, scroll bosses, Dark Rifts, manage your slave worker empire, tame wild horses, train and bread them to get better mounts, farm, fish, hunt sea monsters with a ship, gather, PvP on Arsha (or anywhere if you're willing to go red), node wars, sieges, instanced PvP, the arena, and much more. BDO is a game with a ton of depth. They've started adding more group oriented PvE zones so that you can get away from the solo gameplay that older areas focused on.

    The bad:

    The servers are a dumpster fire. When the game launched you might occasionally get lag and desync, but now it's ridiculous. Dodge is basically pointless because you will just warp backward and get hit by the attack anyway.

    Combat, despite having a ton of variety, is shallow compared to other action games like Guild Wars 2, TERA or Dragon Nest. Most of the time you're just chaining together protected skills (block, forward guard or super armor) to avoid damage while putting out your own. Few skills modify others and combos are comparatively simplistic. In older content things like down attack and air attack mattered more, but now most mobs either get one shot or they're immune to KD/Float so they only matter in PvP. There's nothing like GW2's combo fields, and combo chains are much more rigid than TERA.

    The game is a casino. Everything is RNG. How much loot you get is RNG. Building failstacks for enchanting is RNG. Enchanting is RNG. Staying connected is RNG. It's not as bad as it used to be, but damn it's still an absurd amount of RNG.

    The cash shop is P2W and basically mandatory. You will not enjoy playing this game if you don't buy 5 pets. Without pets it takes longer to loot mobs than it does to kill them, and you will cripple your XP/silver per hour if you don't buy them. Spending money on artisan memory can save you a ton of time. It takes about an hour to do a relic scroll group for memory fragments and you'll be lucky to get 60-70 out of it. Every enchanting attempt costs you 10 memory fragments and you can easily fail dozens of attempts per piece of equipment just to get it to TRI. It's very abusive and pushes you to the cash shop to buy artisan memory to make your memory fragments(and time spent gathering them) stretch 4x as far. Then there's costume melting for the dedicated P2W enthusiast.

    It's a fun game, but it's deeply flawed.
    DMKanoAmarantharGdemamicheyane
  • DwaaawffulDwaaawfful Member UncommonPosts: 62
    My ogre friends tell me it has merits, but i haven't looked in on it yet myself.


    DMKanoAmarantharScot
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,925
    My ogre friends tell me it has merits, but i haven't looked in on it yet myself.



    Also lots of Male characters that look prettier than many girls.
    Amarantharcheyane
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member RarePosts: 3,673
    edited April 2019
    Thank you's to DMKano and Caffinated for the excellent reviews.
    Those were well detailed.
    Thanks to everyone else for your input too.


    Gdemami

    Once upon a time....

  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    It is a candy eye, gambling game, with the main goal of cash shop sales. The PvE is terrible, it is entirely safe and singleplayer, the PvP is terrible - it is completely pointless. It is a typical themepark game, where your actions as a player change nothing.  And indeed, it made a billion with the mobile version combined for 5 years. So about 200 millions of USD per year.  And that is pretty good revenue in fact. But also it is aggressively advertised, so the profit is much smaller. 

    Honestly if you liked the gameplay of BDO, obviously you are not a MMO player.
    Phry
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,499
    edited April 2019
    The reason I loved BDO is simple. I never PvPed or went after the gear RNG. I logged in to grow things and sell them to far off places. I had a lot of workers and I specialized them and had fun just riding about going far away with my wagons. When I got bored with that I would breed horses or look to opening nodes and managing my workers for maximum output. I enjoyed growing crops no one would try, they all grew sunflowers I didn't.

    I crafted things and made ships so I could travel even further. I also did afk fishing but trading made more money so I mostly traded.

    I had one pet. I never bought more because I did not need to as I said I played a very laid back game. I just loved to explore the beautiful world. I finally quit after I had done most of what I wanted to for another game but I enjoyed my time on BDO.

    The beauty of BDO is its life systems they were great and fresh.
    PhryJeleenaSovrath
    image
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    You do need the pets, you can get along without them, but its definitely a better game if you have them, but the game is not all about the combat, whether its PVP or PVE, i play the game a lot, but i don't do either of those activities, i am not the only one either. I think one of the reasons why BDO has achieved the level of success that it has is because you play the game how you want to and i choose to play the game as a Trader and have done so for well over a year now, its a very relaxing way to play the game, although now that sea battles on Arsha are more of a thing i am finally tempted to build that Frigate!  ;)
    blueturtle13
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    cheyane said:
    The reason I loved BDO is simple. I never PvPed or went after the gear RNG. I logged in to grow things and sell them to far off places. I had a lot of workers and I specialized them and had fun just riding about going far away with my wagons. When I got bored with that I would breed horses or look to opening nodes and managing my workers for maximum output. I enjoyed growing crops no one would try, they all grew sunflowers I didn't.

    I crafted things and made ships so I could travel even further. I also did afk fishing but trading made more money so I mostly traded.

    I had one pet. I never bought more because I did not need to as I said I played a very laid back game. I just loved to explore the beautiful world. I finally quit after I had done most of what I wanted to for another game but I enjoyed my time on BDO.

    The beauty of BDO is its life systems they were great and fresh.
    But it is singleplayer. For a RPG the economic simulation of the game is great. For a MMO it is crap.
    Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,854
    Well regardless of what some might think of BDO, (including me) as the OP said, it seems to be doing well.

    If I ever "fail" at making something creative in life I hope I sell a billion dollars of it.

    ;)
    Sovrath

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,875
    When it comes to games.. some people will see a fine piece of ass, others will see a shit hole.

    They are both right.
    KyleranAlBQuirkydoomex
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,395
    Great graphics and skimpy outfits for girls go a long way.

    To be fair it has a complex and intriguing economy system but I doubt that's what will be taken from BDO for the future of how to make a good MMO. More likely the item update system which requires a second life to grind or cash shop purchases to sell on to other players will be seen again.

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,395
    DMKano said:
    Ungood said:
    BDO is a great game, I personally really disliked their UI, it was the apex of being anti-intuitive, so, it always made playing a chore to do basic things.. which killed all the fun for me. But, to anyone that did not have an issue with the UI, the game world, combat, and features and design style are amazing. Really top notch game and I can fully see why they made 1 billion so far.

    They made 1 billion because they found an amazing way to fleece their playerbase for as much money as possible via cash shop.

    It would be a great game if they removed some absolutley atrocious systems:

    1. RNG with RNG on top of more RNG  - gear upgrade system

    2. Every class in game is DPS

    3. Out of 17 classes only a handful is viable in PvP

    4. PvE combat is a joke from 1 to 60+, world bosses = gangbang with horrible performance 

    5.Best in slot gear is identical for every class - yeah ehm... 

    6. The game is a cheaters paradise due to lots of client side code and lack of server checks

    7. They shut down their BR arena because of rampant cheating that they failed to curb

    8. All game systems lead to - cash shop!
      - in game armor looks like ass - $30 and it's fixed
      - want to repair gear at 4x mem frag effectiveness- artisan mem in cash shop  can help
      - need valks mem or cron stones for safe upgrade - buy a bunch of those $30 costumes and melt them!
      - want to sell something in auction house but hate the 30% profit loss- buy a value pack in cash shop!
    - dont  have T4 pets - spend a crapload on cash shop
    shop
    - need more inv slots? Bank slots? - cha ching
    - getting encumbered too quickly? $$$
    - training horses but getting crap skills? Cash shop reroll
    - want to process something immediately? Cha ching
    - want to fish better, swim better, train horses faster... there's a cash shop outfit that can help
    - etc....

    Cash shop has a fix for any problem in BDO

    That's why they made 1bil - the core playerbase is spending $300+ a month

    The only thing I disagree with here is I say Kerching and DMKano says Cha ching, maybe thats an American thing? :)

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,925
    edited April 2019
    Scot said:
    Great graphics and skimpy outfits for girls go a long way.

    To be fair it has a complex and intriguing economy system but I doubt that's what will be taken from BDO for the future of how to make a good MMO. More likely the item update system which requires a second life to grind or cash shop purchases to sell on to other players will be seen again.


    Complex economy system?

    How?

    What exactly is complex about BDOs economy?

    I see this mentioned several times but there is no complexity. 

    You cant even trade directly player to player. Everything goes through the auction house which has developer controlled prices.

    Like there are 1000s of items(krea green weapons for example) that just sit on the auction house eternally at "minimum price" because nobody buys them.

    Devs keep adding systems to remove all this from the game (like feeding green gear to level up your fairy, or devouring gear for fail stacks etc.... but with infinite supply nothing can remove them fast enough from the economy)

    In a real complex economy these items would continually drop in price - not in BDO, because the economy is completely based on an impossible model of infinite supply and infinite wealth. 

    As far as an economy simulator - it fails pretty hard once you really look at it

    Also all the tradeskills - linear progression to level them up - and what do you do with all the money you make with tradeskills?

    The only use for silver is to get better gear - aka boss gear - and if you dont PvP - what is the use???

    PvE grind spot content is doable in non-boss gear just fine - maybe just have kutum and zarka - armor can.all be tri grunil, accessories can all be tri blue.

    I think this is exactly the point that many lifeskillers get to - they build these large worker empires - after a while the question is - for what? To make silver- why? The only use for silver is to get better gear in the end.

    Tet-pen boss gear (including accessories) costs 100s of billions in silver..... and the only real use for that is PvP

    So if you are not into PvP and you are amassing all this wealth in BDO... what exactly are you going to spend it on?

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