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The Champions Online Team is Looking for Overachievers - MMORPG.com

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  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,138
    Po_gg said:

    Allegedly after you open it 1000 times you get the title Clicker, so you can be a Clicker hero. Plus you get the next goal, to open it 5000 times :smiley:
    Ok you got me thinking, and I fact checked. The achievement I mentioned above required the slaughter of 10,000 monkeys. No lie. They later changed it to 1,000. I wonder what you get in CO for clicking 10,000 times? Probably carpal tunnel, same as with monkeys. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • momintimmomintim Member UncommonPosts: 62



    SBFord said:

    Everyone stay on topic, please. It is Champions Online. If you want a discussion of City of Heroes, you can start a separate topic. 

    Thanks.


    Don't make her turn this car around!



    "If I have to come back there your gonna be in trouble"
  • Rinswind89Rinswind89 Member UncommonPosts: 13
    Eh... Maybe I would've checked this out if they didn't effectively kill their game by removing the ability to subscribe. Archetype characters are boring and bad, I'm not playing those (plus you have to pay for each type, lmao - No) . Had a bunch of characters but I'm not about to spend $30-40 or whatever the feck PER character to change them all to freeform slots so don't even bother replying with that argument.

    Been a while since I was even bored enough to look this game up since that change, so not sure if they ever reverted it or not, but meh, that ship has sailed anyways.

    But hey, their character creator is better than DCUO's at least, so they have that I guess?
  • seshsesseshses Member UncommonPosts: 56
    seshses said:
    Being honest , i tried it way back and felt is was ok overall , but really what are the negatives that people see in the game ? 
    One of the major drawbacks to CO to many is the graphic style of the game. The characters remind me of  those from 'The Incredibles' in overall tone, and the default body proportions are a bit off from what they should be. This issue has been addressed by community members that have posted more properly proportioned models one can download to use, but this relies on knowing they exist and where to find them.

    The stories in the game aren't very good for the most part, especially early on. It can often get campy, being somewhat reminiscent of the 60's Batman television series. For those that enjoy that kind of thing it isn't so bad but the story won't appeal as much to those seeking a more serious tone. It gets better as you go along, but never gets all that good.

    CO loves the lock box, and if someone gets something good from one it can't wait to tell you about it. This annoyingly tedious message is displayed in the middle of your screen for a moment by default as they know it is more important to you than actually being able to see the game while playing it. Fortunately, the screen layout can be changed, so that the box can be placed so inconspicuously it can pop with abandon without obscuring your view. Still, it remains a bother even if only on principle.

    What many consider the best element of CO, the Freeform system that allows you to cherry pick powers from all the sets to make a custom build, is now locked behind varying paywalls of mixed severity. It used to be possible to subscribe to the game, and have access to freeform characters so long as you did so, and otherwise only have access to mostly predefined characters know as archetypes. This option no longer exists. To make freeform characters now requires one to have a lifetime subscription (where any character you make can be freeform if you wish) or purchase freeform character slots from the cash shop, and they cost a fair bit.

    Another aspect of the Freeform system some dislike is that it allows you to make very self-sufficient characters, often eliminating the need to group with others except in very difficult content. Many feel this negatively affects the social environment in the game. This reflects the source material though, as superheroes are often at different power levels compared to each other. It likely has a negative impact on PvP as well, but that isn't really a highly developed area of the game, making it a side activity of the minority.

    I'm sure there are other issues to find fault with, but my well of observations is running a bit dry at this point. If I think of anything latter I'll be sure to add it to the list. Also, if you have any specific questions regarding the game I'd be happy to answer them the best I can, so please don't hesitate to ask if it pleases you to do so.
    Ok wow things have changed sad too see video games come to this level of lockboxes and tactics for more money or whatever their secret agenda is , well back to my board games.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 650



    t0nyd said:




    seshses said:

    Being honest , i tried it way back and felt is was ok overall , but really what are the negatives that people see in the game ? 



    What many consider the best element of CO, the Freeform system that allows you to cherry pick powers from all the sets to make a custom build, is now locked behind varying paywalls of mixed severity. It used to be possible to subscribe to the game, and have access to freeform characters so long as you did so, and otherwise only have access to mostly predefined characters know as archetypes. This option no longer exists. To make freeform characters now requires one to have a lifetime subscription (where any character you make can be freeform if you wish) or purchase freeform character slots from the cash shop, and they cost a fair bit.

    Another aspect of the Freeform system some dislike is that it allows you to make very self-sufficient characters, often eliminating the need to group with others except in very difficult content. Many feel this negatively affects the social environment in the game. This reflects the source material though, as superheroes are often at different power levels compared to each other. It likely has a negative impact on PvP as well, but that isn't really a highly developed area of the game, making it a side activity of the minority.

    I'm sure there are other issues to find fault with, but my well of observations is running a bit dry at this point. If I think of anything latter I'll be sure to add it to the list. Also, if you have any specific questions regarding the game I'd be happy to answer them the best I can, so please don't hesitate to ask if it pleases you to do so.




    Do you mean source material as in comics in general or the source system the game is made from? As far as comics/movies are concerned power level doesnt dictate group activity. Wolverine, cyclops, and storm all have very different levels of power. Ironman and the hulk arent even on the same playing field. The difficult part of these games is that anything that hits the hulk hard enough to actually hurt him would kill hawkeye outright. How do you translate comic book teams to game content? 

     In my opinion, the only way is to develop strong roles and give characters the tools to deal with it. I think the way to create strong roles is to add a focus that the player selects. You pick one power set to be your primary. If you pick defensive, then all defensive traits are elevated and all others suffer. Otherwise you get these jack off all trades characters with no need to group. If you do this then how do you stop an offensive focused character from getting deleted? Maybe the method would be to design a system that detects if you are solo/grouped, what abilities you have, and then modifies the content to fit? 

    If you look at basically all comic material there is one thing that you will not find and that is the trinity. I believe the trinityin  CO is a huge theme breaker. The avengers dont have a dedicated healer. The X men dont have a dedicated healer.  Does batman throw healerangs at robin? Healing in comics is mostly an out of combat even. At this moment I cant think of a single healing based character in all of comics. I guess maybe you could consider dagger as healing cloak but its more feeding him then healing.

     Without dedicated healing this leads to the freeform system as being a logical system. People must be self sufficient. But can the freeform system work in a game where people can freely and easily heal each other? I simple dont think healing fits the comic book theme unless its toned down severely.

     I believe that there needs to be a strong separation between group and solo content. Batman doesnt go after doomsday solo. Black Widow doesnt attack thanos alone. As a player, you should make your character to do what you want it to do and live with that. Is batman better off solo? Doesnt it depend on what his target is? The problem is that players will cry about it. Players want to do everything and do it well. 



    When I said source material I meant the comics. For the pnp role-playing game the comparative power of the characters of the players would depend on the whim of the one running the game.

    How CO translates comics to to the game is to allow players to create characters at varying power levels depending on their intent.

    Players that wish to create characters that can function well solo in a good deal of content can do so, though will likely eventually have to group for more extreme tasks. Those that would rather make characters that need to work together to overcome content can do so as well. This would work best with a static group of players with characters designed for that purpose.

    The above options only apply to players with access to the Freeform system whether it be by account or character slot. Those confined to archetypes do not have that flexibility in design. They are confined to archetypes, largely preset builds with few options that conform more what you seem to feel ideal, a focus on dps whether melee or ranged, tanking, healing, support or hybrids containing a mix of two such things to give versatility at the cost of raw power with a singular focus. As such, they are often more reliant on grouping than freeforms. These archetypes are also available to those with access to freeform if they are so inclined.

    No character can "freely" do anything. Each choice made when designing a freeform character comes with an opportunity cost. Power selection and customization has limits. The more you focus on one aspect the less you can the others. You can't have high offense, defense, and utility all. Having the ability to make a jack-of-all-trades character isn't of much use or interest to someone wishing to excel at melee or ranged dps, or be a tank for high end content.

    Regarding healing powers in comics, they are more prevalent than you think:

    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Healing

    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Healing

    Freeform has been working in CO since it began to my understanding. If it was going to collapse due to player angst or woe it would have happened long ago.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,608
    Amathe said:
    Ok you got me thinking, and I fact checked. The achievement I mentioned above required the slaughter of 10,000 monkeys. No lie. They later changed it to 1,000. I wonder what you get in CO for clicking 10,000 times? Probably carpal tunnel, same as with monkeys. 
    A lot of games love the carpal tunnel achievements unfortunately... as for the 10 thousand monkeys, TSW had the same, the dreaded 10k, and not just for monkeys but for all mobs in the game.
    Almost nobody did those achievements, so they added the Museum which was tied to them... Players have made farming groups, and it still could take hours even with the more common mobs, let alone those with a slower respawn.

    Had a bunch of characters but I'm not about to spend $30-40 or whatever the feck PER character to change them all to freeform slots so don't even bother replying with that argument.


    But hey, their character creator is better than DCUO's at least, so they have that I guess?
    There's no reply to that argument, the subscription removal really screwed those players like yourself, no question about it.

    But yup, the character creator is better than DCUO's  :smiley:
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,489
    edited April 13
    t0nyd said:
    seshses said:
    Being honest , i tried it way back and felt is was ok overall , but really what are the negatives that people see in the game ? 


    What many consider the best element of CO, the Freeform system that allows you to cherry pick powers from all the sets to make a custom build, is now locked behind varying paywalls of mixed severity. It used to be possible to subscribe to the game, and have access to freeform characters so long as you did so, and otherwise only have access to mostly predefined characters know as archetypes. This option no longer exists. To make freeform characters now requires one to have a lifetime subscription (where any character you make can be freeform if you wish) or purchase freeform character slots from the cash shop, and they cost a fair bit.

    Another aspect of the Freeform system some dislike is that it allows you to make very self-sufficient characters, often eliminating the need to group with others except in very difficult content. Many feel this negatively affects the social environment in the game. This reflects the source material though, as superheroes are often at different power levels compared to each other. It likely has a negative impact on PvP as well, but that isn't really a highly developed area of the game, making it a side activity of the minority.

    I'm sure there are other issues to find fault with, but my well of observations is running a bit dry at this point. If I think of anything latter I'll be sure to add it to the list. Also, if you have any specific questions regarding the game I'd be happy to answer them the best I can, so please don't hesitate to ask if it pleases you to do so.


    Do you mean source material as in comics in general or the source system the game is made from? As far as comics/movies are concerned power level doesnt dictate group activity. Wolverine, cyclops, and storm all have very different levels of power. Ironman and the hulk arent even on the same playing field. The difficult part of these games is that anything that hits the hulk hard enough to actually hurt him would kill hawkeye outright. How do you translate comic book teams to game content? 

     In my opinion, the only way is to develop strong roles and give characters the tools to deal with it. I think the way to create strong roles is to add a focus that the player selects. You pick one power set to be your primary. If you pick defensive, then all defensive traits are elevated and all others suffer. Otherwise you get these jack off all trades characters with no need to group. If you do this then how do you stop an offensive focused character from getting deleted? Maybe the method would be to design a system that detects if you are solo/grouped, what abilities you have, and then modifies the content to fit? 

    If you look at basically all comic material there is one thing that you will not find and that is the trinity. I believe the trinityin  CO is a huge theme breaker. The avengers dont have a dedicated healer. The X men dont have a dedicated healer.  Does batman throw healerangs at robin? Healing in comics is mostly an out of combat even. At this moment I cant think of a single healing based character in all of comics. I guess maybe you could consider dagger as healing cloak but its more feeding him then healing.

     Without dedicated healing this leads to the freeform system as being a logical system. People must be self sufficient. But can the freeform system work in a game where people can freely and easily heal each other? I simple dont think healing fits the comic book theme unless its toned down severely.

     I believe that there needs to be a strong separation between group and solo content. Batman doesnt go after doomsday solo. Black Widow doesnt attack thanos alone. As a player, you should make your character to do what you want it to do and live with that. Is batman better off solo? Doesnt it depend on what his target is? The problem is that players will cry about it. Players want to do everything and do it well. 
    I think its pretty awesome then that Hawkeye is actually the one who kills Hulk (Banner to be more precise).

    CO is more about just having fun though, I love the setting and tone of the game and have played it for 6 months at launch. Haven’t gone back since however.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 650
    The setting and tone is of mixed appeal, so I like to make note of the campy nature of the story, especially early on, so that those who dislike such are forewarned so they know better if they would wish to try it or not.

    I myself find it a bit meh sometimes, but not so much to prevent me from playing the game for a fair amount of time now. There are too many aspects of the game I enjoy to let such a minor thing cause me to lose interest.
    lahnmir
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 650
    edited April 14


    Eh... Maybe I would've checked this out if they didn't effectively kill their game by removing the ability to subscribe. Archetype characters are boring and bad, I'm not playing those (plus you have to pay for each type, lmao - No) . Had a bunch of characters but I'm not about to spend $30-40 or whatever the feck PER character to change them all to freeform slots so don't even bother replying with that argument.



    Been a while since I was even bored enough to look this game up since that change, so not sure if they ever reverted it or not, but meh, that ship has sailed anyways.



    But hey, their character creator is better than DCUO's at least, so they have that I guess?



    They have revamped many of the archetypes, so they are better than they used to be.

    Depending how many characters is in a "bunch" it may be more cost effective to pick up a life-time subscription on sale. It would return access to all your freeforms without additional cost, and open up all the archetypes as well.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,608
    Depending how many characters is in a "bunch" it may be more cost effective to pick up a life-time subscription on sale. It would return access to all your freeforms without additional cost, and open up all the archetypes as well.
    For a lot of those players lifetime isn't an option, because they don't play CO as their main game anymore. Going back to CO once, or maybe twice per year doesn't make lifetime as something even to consider. When would the cost "bring back" its worth, maybe 15 years later, or more?
    Lifetime is good for players who are really active in the game, but not so much for the casual visitors or returnees.

    Before the sub removal those players paid $15-$30 per year for Cryptic and they were enjoying the comeback. Now they pay $0 and they also are angry.
    Overall, not exactly a good change in my eyes, but it was discussed to the teeth around those months already, and Cryptic still went with it, so it's water under bridge now.
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,539
    A few years ago, I thought about going back, as one of my characters just happened to be a basic archetype.  Couldn't immediately recover my account, so I tried to contact support.  

    Got 404 errors from them.  There was no way to contact them at all.  Gave up in disgust.  Good going CO/PWE!   Sucks, as I was a huge Champions pnp fan.  Oh well.....
    Blaze_Rocker

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • SamhaelSamhael Member RarePosts: 1,212




    Rhoklaw said:


    If this was City of Heroes / City of Villains, I'd be all over it.






    CoX being all over makes that rather impossible.



    This is for those open to playing the most similar presently available alternative.



    Just because my favorite diet soda has been discontinued does not mean I will drink Tab.
    Blaze_Rockerwingood
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,608
    Samhael said:
    Just because my favorite diet soda has been discontinued does not mean I will drink Tab.
    That's all fine and dandy.
    I think Suzie's point was that while it doesn't mean you will drink Tab, it also doesn't mean you need to show up at every place where they serve or talk about Tab and tell to everyone around that your favourite soda was discontinued... :smile:
    (not to mention CO has nothing to do with CoH's cancel)

    In the light of recent event it would be easy to just point at the scoreboard and say to the CoH refugees to get some SCoRE... but the massive negative reaction all over the web just shows the former awesome CoH community is apparently gone.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 650
    Po_gg said:
    Depending how many characters is in a "bunch" it may be more cost effective to pick up a life-time subscription on sale. It would return access to all your freeforms without additional cost, and open up all the archetypes as well.
    For a lot of those players lifetime isn't an option, because they don't play CO as their main game anymore. Going back to CO once, or maybe twice per year doesn't make lifetime as something even to consider. When would the cost "bring back" its worth, maybe 15 years later, or more?
    Lifetime is good for players who are really active in the game, but not so much for the casual visitors or returnees.

    Before the sub removal those players paid $15-$30 per year for Cryptic and they were enjoying the comeback. Now they pay $0 and they also are angry.
    Overall, not exactly a good change in my eyes, but it was discussed to the teeth around those months already, and Cryptic still went with it, so it's water under bridge now.
    I felt the change in model to be a poor choice as well. Life-time is only suitable for those playing the game fairly regularly, so the removing of the middle road of subscription was in my mind quite bizarre. Surprisingly it has less visual impact on population than I expected.

    Anyway, those with limited interest but still wanting the build diversity freeform provides can get a single slot for a one time cost of $30 and less on sale, which I don't find all that bad for an intermittent desire that strikes only a couple of times a year.

    It certainly isn't as good an option as before, but it is currently the only low cost option available, other than archetype.
  • jaymesbondjaymesbond Member UncommonPosts: 34
    Po_gg said:
    Samhael said:
    Just because my favorite diet soda has been discontinued does not mean I will drink Tab.
    That's all fine and dandy.
    I think Suzie's point was that while it doesn't mean you will drink Tab, it also doesn't mean you need to show up at every place where they serve or talk about Tab and tell to everyone around that your favourite soda was discontinued... :smile:
    (not to mention CO has nothing to do with CoH's cancel)

    In the light of recent event it would be easy to just point at the scoreboard and say to the CoH refugees to get some SCoRE... but the massive negative reaction all over the web just shows the former awesome CoH community is apparently gone.


    Come on, just because people don't share your opinion of the game, they're not "awesome" anymore?  Look at the event itself.  Creating a new character and leveling it up.  Nothing new, no changes to the game, no new additions.  I would say the "massive negative reaction" is warranted.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,608
    edited April 17
    Po_gg said:
    In the light of recent event it would be easy to just point at the scoreboard and say to the CoH refugees to get some SCoRE... but the massive negative reaction all over the web just shows the former awesome CoH community is apparently gone.


    Come on, just because people don't share your opinion of the game, they're not "awesome" anymore?  Look at the event itself.  Creating a new character and leveling it up.  Nothing new, no changes to the game, no new additions.  I would say the "massive negative reaction" is warranted.

    Whoa, there's a huge misunderstanding, I wasn't speaking about CO...

    Maybe it's my fault, I believed a new paragraph and the wordplay on SCoRE will be enough, but apparently not.
    "In the light of recent event"  = the previous day leaked CoH server, and the (mostly negative) responses onto it is what "shows the former awesome CoH community is apparently gone."


    (back to CO - extra br/ and a note in parentheses just for safety this time :)  )

    I already voiced my opinion about the leveling event, you can see it in the thread above. I wasn't too enthusiastic about it either, it's fun just nothing extra, and the rewards reflect on that.
    Actually I'd like to adjust that part of my previous opinion, the new emote turned out to be nice. Spinny posted it on the forum:  https://youtu.be/BdCP_1h-WhA
  • jaymesbondjaymesbond Member UncommonPosts: 34
    My bad.  Your first paragraph was regarding CO and I thought your second paragraph was continuing that train of thought.

    I am just disappointed at the whole thing that something like this passes for an event and I, unfairly, put that disappointment on you.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,608
    No worries, my phrasing is, more often than not, pretty confused jumpy :smile:

    I don't think either that it passes as an event (I think I too called it as "mini-event" before), on the other hand for old and neglected games even these small tidbits can be refreshening.

    CO received nothing for several years after Steel Crusade, but recently it at least gets some new mechanics, or small sized content updates... not much, and I don't know what has changed the PWE minds, but since Onslaught the game got some love at least.
    Can't even compare it to STO or Neverwinter, it's the oldest game from the three, with a fairly small playerbase and the dev activity reflects on that.

    But, it is more than the zero activity it was for years... there's a "new zone" now too (a re-use of the Qliphothic realm of Demonflame and Aftershock) which could even go as "content update". :sweat_smile:
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