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One Former Valve Dev Says that Steam's 30% Take of Profits is a 'Tax on an Entire Industry' - MMORP

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Comments

  • SabracSabrac Member UncommonPosts: 137
    I've been following all this drama for a while now and i can't believe what i'm seeing... The PC platform is turning into the same mess that is the console wars... Where both sides attack each other in defense of their respective Corporate Overlords...



    For the record i have no loyalty to any Store platform, i will buy games from the one who offer me a better service or products and that's it.
    Pemminparrotpholk
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,157
    Sabrac said:
    I've been following all this drama for a while now and i can't believe what i'm seeing... The PC platform is turning into the same mess that is the console wars... Where both sides attack each other in defense of their respective Corporate Overlords...



    For the record i have no loyalty to any Store platform, i will buy games from the one who offer me a better service or products and that's it.
    The worst part is this "war" doesn't cost the consumer a new console to buy the exclusive. It's a complaint over free software.
    MadFrenchie
  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,051
    Arskaaa said:
    Just give us google stadia already.
    FCC was just talking about how internet providers can straddle you internet connection as long as they are honest about it. So depending on what happens in the next few years and how expensive the internet gets for packages then Google Stadia may be dead in the water.

    If you don't live in the US however than you don't have to worry about it though.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Quizzical said:
    If some of you mf'ers don't work in PR you're missing your calling.

    A person literally just posted a straight forward non-hyperbole black and white feature list, and you Kellyannes dance right around that shit like "it doesn't matter".
    Have you ever considered that sometimes bloatware is a bad thing?

    And even if not, if you want a program to do exactly one thing for you, a program that can do 30 things including the one you want doesn't help you any more than one that does exactly what you want and nothing else.
    How much more are you folks going to twist and bend yourselves around? It's ridiculous.

    Now you're calling Steam features "bloatware" right after telling people they should download every platform for every game because "hey it's just a launcher".

    Get it together.

    If Epic wanted to promote a leaner faster platform with only the necessary features, they could have lead with that and let the chips fall where they may. They could have offered all developers a means for their current Steam customers to transfer saves, and other data from Steam.

    That's not what they're doing is it? They're starting an arms race with the consumers in the middle and Kellyannes running around saying "GET BOTH IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTERRRR"
    RoinRhoklaw
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,157
    Quizzical said:
    If some of you mf'ers don't work in PR you're missing your calling.

    A person literally just posted a straight forward non-hyperbole black and white feature list, and you Kellyannes dance right around that shit like "it doesn't matter".
    Have you ever considered that sometimes bloatware is a bad thing?

    And even if not, if you want a program to do exactly one thing for you, a program that can do 30 things including the one you want doesn't help you any more than one that does exactly what you want and nothing else.
    How much more are you folks going to twist and bend yourselves around? It's ridiculous.

    Now you're calling Steam features "bloatware" right after telling people they should download every platform for every game because "hey it's just a launcher".

    Get it together.

    If Epic wanted to promote a leaner faster platform with only the necessary features, they could have lead with that and let the chips fall where they may. They could have offered all developers a means for their current Steam customers to transfer saves, and other data from Steam.

    That's not what they're doing is it? They're starting an arms race with the consumers in the middle and Kellyannes running around saying "GET BOTH IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTERRRR"
    You're crying over something that costs you nothing. You are the one that needs to get it together.
    ArteriusGdemamiparrotpholkRhoklawMadFrenchie
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,400
    Xasapis said:
    jonp200 said:
    <snip>
    The cost of a game has remained unchanged but the development costs are astronomical in comparison.
    That is actually false. Both the higher per unit profits and the overall size of the market have made gaming more profitable than ever. There is a reason profits from gaming are bigger than profits from the film and music industry combined.
    I think I'll take my word for it. :D
    @Xasapis 's is right but that doesn't mean that @ChildoftheShadows comment is wrong. 

    - the move to digital distribution has allowed developers to retain a far higher % of the sale cost of the game. 
    - as a result of digital distribution games can be released around the world.
    - hence the revenue after distribution that a developer gets can be much higher.

    The downside of worldwide digital distribution
    - it applies to every other developer in the world
    - marketing the game - simply being one of many thousands of games of Steam doesn't get you in the eye of the potential purchaser. (On Epic - maybe at the moment ironically!) Potentially marketing can be very expensive - especially to reach a big audience.  

    As far as costs go well when it comes to producing TV HD quality has greatly increased costs - despite digital recording, better cameras, editing etc. I would assume that this applies to HD quality games as well. To produce an "old quality" game though - maybe not.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,151
    My basic take is pretty simple:  I want developers who make games that I like to make a lot of money by doing so.  That will encourage more developers to make more games that I like.  I want for more developers to make more games that I like.

    And that means that when I pay for games that I like, I want for as much of the money as possible to go to the people who developed and maintain the game, or sometimes rather, the people who paid them to do so.  I don't want for it to get siphoned off by big box retailers, marketing fees, external publishers, online game stores, or other entities that aren't necessary to making the game work properly.  I can accept that it's commonly necessary for some sort of distributor to take a cut to get the game from the developers to me, but I want that cut to be as small as possible.  When possible, I'll try to buy a game as directly from its developers as I can, so that intermediaries don't get to take a cut.
    ChildoftheShadowsShaighVrika
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Quizzical said:
    If some of you mf'ers don't work in PR you're missing your calling.

    A person literally just posted a straight forward non-hyperbole black and white feature list, and you Kellyannes dance right around that shit like "it doesn't matter".
    Have you ever considered that sometimes bloatware is a bad thing?

    And even if not, if you want a program to do exactly one thing for you, a program that can do 30 things including the one you want doesn't help you any more than one that does exactly what you want and nothing else.
    How much more are you folks going to twist and bend yourselves around? It's ridiculous.

    Now you're calling Steam features "bloatware" right after telling people they should download every platform for every game because "hey it's just a launcher".

    Get it together.

    If Epic wanted to promote a leaner faster platform with only the necessary features, they could have lead with that and let the chips fall where they may. They could have offered all developers a means for their current Steam customers to transfer saves, and other data from Steam.

    That's not what they're doing is it? They're starting an arms race with the consumers in the middle and Kellyannes running around saying "GET BOTH IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTERRRR"
    You're crying over something that costs you nothing. You are the one that needs to get it together.
    This is the idiocy I'm talking about. Where do you see "crying"? If I'm crying does that mean you're giving sloppy top to Epic?


    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • adam_noxadam_nox Member UncommonPosts: 2,121
    I find the controversy bizarre. Steam certainly has some crazy fans, and I don't know what they ever did. Yes I've read the claims of what they did, but they practically fell into this situation of power like FB did. Their platform is nothing special. Fifteen years ago I would have never thought people would care more about trophies and friends lists and a unified launcher over the actual games.

    Someone complained about consoles, but they are killing it, and they are 'good enough' solutions for almost anyone. And they are platforms. Steam is a platform. It's just one that doesn't take constant development and high level engineering to create. Valve saw the advantage of the platform model it saw with MS and Sony and it tried to create one without doing the work of creating an OS. They even tried a steam box and controller. So if you are against the console model, you are against steam.

    Like I said though, I don't get it. If big name devs don't want to pay the 30%, they have options. I don't feel sorry for them. But by that same logic I don't pity the gamers who are just yelling 'but maaaaa, I want it on steeeeeeaaaam'.
    ChildoftheShadows
  • Grunt350Grunt350 Member UncommonPosts: 56
    All this drama brings me back memories of the console war in the mid-2000s
  • RexKushmanRexKushman Member RarePosts: 544

    Quizzical said:



    My only issue with Epic is that their store/launcher is objectively inferior to Steam. All it is is a launcher with a friends list. No mod support, reviews, game forums, streaming, family share, none of the community features that valve has built. If it wasn't getting exclusives I wouldn't care one bit but to be forced to purchase products from an inferior platform simply rubs me the wrong way.



    All I can do is vote with my wallet as I have done recently by not purchasing anything from them. If they build up their store into something even remotely comparable to Steam I'd have no problems buying games there but they are many years away from being close to that.



    Also, as someone who actually owned Fortnite years before the BR mode was even an idea, I've have more attempted account hijackings on their platform than on any website I've ever been registered on. Now that might not necessarily be their fault, but it makes me extra worried about using them.


    And here I thought that the point of a game launcher was to launch games.  I don't want to spend all day staring at a game launcher.  I want it to do its job and get out of the way.  More time spent fussing with a launcher means less time playing games.



    And that's why options are good. B3 gives no options though (for pc, obviously there is the option to play on a console) by being a paid exclusive on a single digital distribution platform. This isn't an issue for me in this case as I am not a fan of the Borderlands series anyway and wouldn't be buying it on Steam either.

    This is all down to personal preference in the end. I've been on Steam for nearly 10 yrs and love the service that they have provided over that time, that good service gets rewarded by me with the loyalty that I always look to them to puchase my digital pc games. Everyone's opinions on this will be different though as I know that some people out their absolutely despise Steam.../shrug

  • mallettjtmallettjt Member UncommonPosts: 84

    Annwyn said:

    I really don't get the outrage over the Epic games launcher. I feel like these outraged gamers are not using their heads properly.



    Steam has enjoyed a near monopoly on PC gaming for over a decade. Yes there are smaller competitors, but they're not big enough to create a real dent in Steam's revenues, and gamers have grown so used to using Steam, that they don't really see the negative aspects that it has on the industry itself.



    Steam is "good" for consumers through all of its social features, but it's simply terrible for developers, in particular indie developers, because Steam takes a huge 30% off the sale. This is partly what's influenced the rise of prices in the video game industry too, due of the ever increasing game development costs and a shrinking profit margin. The Steam Store is also a massive mess of asset-flips because they've stop curating their store, which means that it can be a lot harder for your game to get the visibility it needs to succeed.



    Here comes Epic, offering to take only 12%, and waiving the royalty fees for developers using UE4. That's 18% more money per sale in profit compared to Steam, and make that 23% if the developers used UE4 (there's a 5% royalty for selling a game made with UE4). That's a HUGE difference in revenue for a game developer studio. Even better, the store is curated so you don't get all that asset-flip filth.



    Sure, the Epic Store is missing some features at the moment, many of which are being worked on if you look at their Store roadmap. The Store came out in December I think, and it seems to be doing quite well already, and let's not forget that Steam started out as only a fraction as what it is today. It took time to introduce all of these new features.



    Also, I'm kind of glad that the Epic Store doesn't have player reviews at the moment. I think player reviews are important to warn potential players of good/bad games, but its currently being misused for review bombing older games by immature gamers, so I could imagine review bombing being used to try and destroy newly released games on the Epic Store if they were to release that feature too early.



    Anyway, TLDR: Competition is good, especially if it favors developers.



    Competition is fine if they actually are competitive. But it's not competitive in the sense it is giving users a reason to use it over steam. It's competitive in the sense its denying users the ability to play on their platform of choice. It'd be different if they offered mod support or say cheaper prices due to the cheaper price to publish on their platform. But they don't they just deny users access unless it's through them. Also bombing isn't a misuse of the review system, if a game is getting bombed its consumers saying something the dev did is wrong. Stop acting like games just get bombed for the lols. Also consumers before developers, that's how it is in every single industry. Imagine if hospitals did that? Doctors can screw you out of better care quality to make more money. Oh wait they do that. But that's ok according to the logic you just used.
  • IncomparableIncomparable Member UncommonPosts: 1,114
    Valve also creates content, so its not just steam.

    So how is it hurting PC gaming exactly when it gives PC gamers a platform for their games? And at one of the best rates of value to their customers.

    Isnt it a common joke for steam users who just pay games on sale, and have a huge game library of games that they dont even play or have played? And their AAA games.

    Thats revenue developers get, that basically they would never get, if a person had to buy a physical copy becuase then the mentality of the gamer would be, finish this hard copy then move on to the next. Where as digital its not really the same since its not taking up any space and doesnt have to think about it in the same way.

    And steam is not running a monopoly, so if there is a chance for another client to do the same, they would have done it and take their market share. In fact if their rates are so bad, then it should make it easy for other clients to compete, but I really dont see any clients competing, and the ones that do, hurt their potential revenue base such as Origin for EA.

    And I trust Steam much more than I would trust EPIC. Steam has a much larger infrstrucutre at this point as well.

    I digress...

    I mean, Im pretty sure I got hacked back in the day when playing Counter strike on the old school client of theirs. Apparently its very easy to get someones IP, and anyone that knows about bad online experiences, once a person has your IP, its open season with what they can do. And as of late I never really had a bad experience with Steam... well except for one wierd oddodity that happens the same as it did in the past.

    When I ever play CS:GO, and their new versions, the death cam as its appears from death always flickers. This used to happen a long time ago on their old CS games. Strange that the same thing happens on a different engine, and ofc different PC/hardware etc. I am even using a laptop so there is no conflict in drivers etc And I am somewhat good at getting drivers/cleaning etc and not getting malware as well.

    And I know some of my friends who also play dont get that... so its strange that it keeps happening to me. Other than hacking my brain with strobe light effects, I am not being hacked... I think... Since Its not really anything beyond that and may be some wierd gameplay experiences. But the hacking of the mind is somewhat serious in the side effect of it, that its quite exhuasting. Its kind of like torture in a sense, and if its happening to other people, thats very concerning... since I am a somewhat patient person, and therefore tolerant in gernal, but someone else would be triggered in a bad way and might even become dangerous from those kinds of negative disruptions in their life.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • mallettjtmallettjt Member UncommonPosts: 84

    Mythla said:





    My only issue with Epic is that their store/launcher is objectively inferior to Steam. All it is is a launcher with a friends list. No mod support, reviews, game forums, streaming, family share, none of the community features that valve has built. If it wasn't getting exclusives I wouldn't care one bit but to be forced to purchase products from an inferior platform simply rubs me the wrong way.





    All I can do is vote with my wallet as I have done recently by not purchasing anything from them. If they build up their store into something even remotely comparable to Steam I'd have no problems buying games there but they are many years away from being close to that.





    Also, as someone who actually owned Fortnite years before the BR mode was even an idea, I've have more attempted account hijackings on their platform than on any website I've ever been registered on. Now that might not necessarily be their fault, but it makes me extra worried about using them.






    It's these backasswards takes that kill me. Who the hell is "forcing" you to purchase products from Epic? It's the height of selfish entitlement that gamers rant about inconvenience or waiting a few months, in the face of developers who spent YEARS of their lives and (in many cases) health to create said product getting a fair cut.



    Denying me the ability to buy said product through its usual venues. How is it not forcing me to either buy through them or not at all?
  • bobbymcswansonbobbymcswanson Member UncommonPosts: 171

    Lililune said:

    My favorite is GOG because no launcher crap needed to download my games.

    Steam or Epic it's the same old thing.

    Only interested in making money,don't give a shit about customers.

    I use Steam because Linux and a better launcher.

    But that is all!

    And that war between Epic and Steam is getting ridiculous...



    Epic does care about profits...but they also have a support a creator program that gives 5% of earnings back to creators and the epic store also give a free game every couple weeks out for free...not cheap 5$ games either but 20-30$ games...I'm glad epic came around to shake things up...I'm sick of steam
    parrotpholkMadFrenchie
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    For those who are under the delusion that game prices have remained unchanged, I present you with exhibit A:



    • Original price raised to console price range without the need to offset any console hardware costs.
    • Various versions of the game with different content and the base price with the bare minimum game.
    • Season passes
    • DLC even on pre-release.
    • Microtransaction stores even for single player games.
    • Game as a service (see Fallout 76 or Anthem)
    The above has become the norm these days. For the days to come, these companies seem adamant to monetise your frustration. Blizzard is already doing it (the reason I left Overwatch), but it seems they are becoming more sophisticated about it (monitoring women's menstruation circle? wtf?).
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,895
    edited April 7
    gervaise1 said:
    Xasapis said:
    jonp200 said:
    <snip>
    The cost of a game has remained unchanged but the development costs are astronomical in comparison.
    That is actually false. Both the higher per unit profits and the overall size of the market have made gaming more profitable than ever. There is a reason profits from gaming are bigger than profits from the film and music industry combined.
    I think I'll take my word for it. :D
    @Xasapis 's is right but that doesn't mean that @ChildoftheShadows comment is wrong. 

    - the move to digital distribution has allowed developers to retain a far higher % of the sale cost of the game. 
    - as a result of digital distribution games can be released around the world.
    - hence the revenue after distribution that a developer gets can be much higher.

    The downside of worldwide digital distribution
    - it applies to every other developer in the world
    - marketing the game - simply being one of many thousands of games of Steam doesn't get you in the eye of the potential purchaser. (On Epic - maybe at the moment ironically!) Potentially marketing can be very expensive - especially to reach a big audience.  

    As far as costs go well when it comes to producing TV HD quality has greatly increased costs - despite digital recording, better cameras, editing etc. I would assume that this applies to HD quality games as well. To produce an "old quality" game though - maybe not.

    Physical versus digital saves 2 dollars per 60 dollar product, its not that much. Especially when you consider costs for creating a game and its advertisement have gone up a factor 12 to 13 over the last fifteen years. But sales have gone up too right? Yes, but a factor 5 only, So profits and ROI are under huge pressure. Especially since with the introduction of F2P the massess have been conditioned into thinking that games have become less expensive instead of more, therefor rehecting a higher price. And I am fully aware that the industry did this to itself but alas, it is the situation we are in.

    Why do you guys think AAA titles play it safe, many companies are going under, different ways of generating revenue have been created, almost all of the AA games have disappeared?

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,157
    Xasapis said:
    For those who are under the delusion that game prices have remained unchanged, I present you with exhibit A:



    • Original price raised to console price range without the need to offset any console hardware costs.
    • Various versions of the game with different content and the base price with the bare minimum game.
    • Season passes
    • DLC even on pre-release.
    • Microtransaction stores even for single player games.
    • Game as a service (see Fallout 76 or Anthem)
    The above has become the norm these days. For the days to come, these companies seem adamant to monetise your frustration. Blizzard is already doing it (the reason I left Overwatch), but it seems they are becoming more sophisticated about it (monitoring women's menstruation circle? wtf?).
    The reason the other additions came into play was because the sticker prices haven't changed and companies need to make up the difference. Had game sticker prices inflated like everything else you'd be looking at $90 on average or more.
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,151
    lahnmir said:
    gervaise1 said:
    Xasapis said:
    jonp200 said:
    <snip>
    The cost of a game has remained unchanged but the development costs are astronomical in comparison.
    That is actually false. Both the higher per unit profits and the overall size of the market have made gaming more profitable than ever. There is a reason profits from gaming are bigger than profits from the film and music industry combined.
    I think I'll take my word for it. :D
    @Xasapis 's is right but that doesn't mean that @ChildoftheShadows comment is wrong. 

    - the move to digital distribution has allowed developers to retain a far higher % of the sale cost of the game. 
    - as a result of digital distribution games can be released around the world.
    - hence the revenue after distribution that a developer gets can be much higher.

    The downside of worldwide digital distribution
    - it applies to every other developer in the world
    - marketing the game - simply being one of many thousands of games of Steam doesn't get you in the eye of the potential purchaser. (On Epic - maybe at the moment ironically!) Potentially marketing can be very expensive - especially to reach a big audience.  

    As far as costs go well when it comes to producing TV HD quality has greatly increased costs - despite digital recording, better cameras, editing etc. I would assume that this applies to HD quality games as well. To produce an "old quality" game though - maybe not.

    Physical versus digital saves 2 dollars per 60 dollar product, its not that much. Especially when you consider costs for creating a game and its advertisement have gone up a factor 12 to 13 over the last fifteen years. But sales have gone up too right? Yes, but a factor 5 only, So profits and ROI are under huge pressure. Especially since with the introduction of F2P the massess have been conditioned into thinking that games have become less expensive instead of more, therefor rehecting a higher price. And I am fully aware that the industry did this to itself but alas, it is the situation we are in.

    Why do you guys think AAA titles play it safe, many companies are going under, different ways of generating revenue have been created, almost all of the AA games have disappeared?

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    2 dollars, delivery costs and the additional cost for game shops to store your games. Even if it was only the 2 dollars, that's still not little. Games can sell in millions, so you'd be saving a ton of money by going fully digital.

  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,795
    edited April 7

    Lililune said:

    My favorite is GOG because no launcher crap needed to download my games.

    Steam or Epic it's the same old thing.

    Only interested in making money,don't give a shit about customers.

    I use Steam because Linux and a better launcher.

    But that is all!

    And that war between Epic and Steam is getting ridiculous...



    Epic does care about profits...but they also have a support a creator program that gives 5% of earnings back to creators and the epic store also give a free game every couple weeks out for free...not cheap 5$ games either but 20-30$ games...I'm glad epic came around to shake things up...I'm sick of steam
    2 things epic got giving away free games, users for the epic game store and and spying on steam users. The thing is people should support other store then just the epic store. Only thing people doing is going from one Momopoly store to an other nothing have change for the better.
  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,368
    edited April 7
    Quizzical said:
    If some of you mf'ers don't work in PR you're missing your calling.

    A person literally just posted a straight forward non-hyperbole black and white feature list, and you Kellyannes dance right around that shit like "it doesn't matter".
    Have you ever considered that sometimes bloatware is a bad thing?

    And even if not, if you want a program to do exactly one thing for you, a program that can do 30 things including the one you want doesn't help you any more than one that does exactly what you want and nothing else.
    How much more are you folks going to twist and bend yourselves around? It's ridiculous.

    Now you're calling Steam features "bloatware" right after telling people they should download every platform for every game because "hey it's just a launcher".

    Get it together.

    If Epic wanted to promote a leaner faster platform with only the necessary features, they could have lead with that and let the chips fall where they may. They could have offered all developers a means for their current Steam customers to transfer saves, and other data from Steam.

    That's not what they're doing is it? They're starting an arms race with the consumers in the middle and Kellyannes running around saying "GET BOTH IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTERRRR"
    You're crying over something that costs you nothing. You are the one that needs to get it together.
    And you are still missing the point, Shadows.

    If Epic had dropped their store without bringing the Console exclusive bs. No one would have given two shits about it. You want to bring competition to Steam. More power to you. There was no need for this console level exclusive bullshit they are pulling now. Give the devs a bigger cut and let them decide if they want to use your platform. It could have been that simple.

    But no Epic had to be utter assholes. Because having all that fortnite money apparently, can't buy you common sense. You want to make your own first party shit exclusive. I'm 100% behind you. When you start locking down 3rd party shit. Sorry I'm not behind you even a bit.

    People keep acting like Steam had/has no competition other than Epic. Get the fuck out of here please. GoG, Origin, Uplay. Developers could have went to any one of them.
    GdemamiRhoklaw

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,735
    Seems like good riddance for Valve...
    parrotpholkmbrodie
  • bleedeaglebleedeagle Member UncommonPosts: 17
    I don't take data stealing accusations of Epic Store very seriously but what i do care about is.

    1. Games can't be launched when you are offline, meaning when your internet goes down you can't play borderlands 3.

    2. Developers are allowed to opt in/out of reviews if they come out. Meaning game can go into shits and you as customer will read only good things about the game in the epic store even though its been in the shits for past month. - Developers shouldn't be allowed this

    3. I don't want my PC lunching multiple game launchers every single day - Origin for Apex, Steam for my 200 games, Epic for Borderlands and so on. I hate clutter
    Rhoklaw
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,895
    Bloodaxes said:
    lahnmir said:
    gervaise1 said:
    Xasapis said:
    jonp200 said:
    <snip>
    The cost of a game has remained unchanged but the development costs are astronomical in comparison.
    That is actually false. Both the higher per unit profits and the overall size of the market have made gaming more profitable than ever. There is a reason profits from gaming are bigger than profits from the film and music industry combined.
    I think I'll take my word for it. :D
    @Xasapis 's is right but that doesn't mean that @ChildoftheShadows comment is wrong. 

    - the move to digital distribution has allowed developers to retain a far higher % of the sale cost of the game. 
    - as a result of digital distribution games can be released around the world.
    - hence the revenue after distribution that a developer gets can be much higher.

    The downside of worldwide digital distribution
    - it applies to every other developer in the world
    - marketing the game - simply being one of many thousands of games of Steam doesn't get you in the eye of the potential purchaser. (On Epic - maybe at the moment ironically!) Potentially marketing can be very expensive - especially to reach a big audience.  

    As far as costs go well when it comes to producing TV HD quality has greatly increased costs - despite digital recording, better cameras, editing etc. I would assume that this applies to HD quality games as well. To produce an "old quality" game though - maybe not.

    Physical versus digital saves 2 dollars per 60 dollar product, its not that much. Especially when you consider costs for creating a game and its advertisement have gone up a factor 12 to 13 over the last fifteen years. But sales have gone up too right? Yes, but a factor 5 only, So profits and ROI are under huge pressure. Especially since with the introduction of F2P the massess have been conditioned into thinking that games have become less expensive instead of more, therefor rehecting a higher price. And I am fully aware that the industry did this to itself but alas, it is the situation we are in.

    Why do you guys think AAA titles play it safe, many companies are going under, different ways of generating revenue have been created, almost all of the AA games have disappeared?

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    2 dollars, delivery costs and the additional cost for game shops to store your games. Even if it was only the 2 dollars, that's still not little. Games can sell in millions, so you'd be saving a ton of money by going fully digital.
    2 dollars on 60 is definitely not neglectible, if my company found a way to save 3,33% we would be over the moon. It is however not that much when taking into account the 1200 to 1300% rise in costs compared to an “only” 500% increase in sales, its more profit but not more profit per dollar spent, the ROI is still much lower then before even with that advantage of going digital. And what you paid the physical store before is what you now pay the digital store as a company btw, 30% in the case of Steam even.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • VandarixVandarix Member UncommonPosts: 173
    I'm fine with competition but the second you force me to use your client to buy a game and tag it "exclusive" for a PC game that should be everywhere, you're dead to me.
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