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MMOs catering to people over 40 (or even over 50)

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  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 5,430
    Anyone else playing Nasal Hair Growth III?

    They've really gone to town on the passive unattractiveness simulation modelling.
    Don't they have a DLC  in the pipeline called Ear Hair Growth?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


    (And now Burger King has MEATLESS burgers!)

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,189
    Kyleran said:
    I am 48 , stronger & healty than some 20 years old kid
     But very likely much slower, it is inevitible.
    At 48 it is completely inevitable. At 68 you may have an issue, depending on many variables but right now I outlift a lot of people at the gym, I surf next to people decades younger than me, and even with all my injuries, I still do much better than holding my own

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,189
    edited March 27
    Kyleran said:
    Hatefull said:
    lahnmir said:
    I know a few 50+ to 70+ players and they do play less twitchy games. Wiz101, Pirate 101, LOTRO, other RPGS.  They just accept they will never be in a "raiding" guild/clan in games like LOTRO.
    I played high level TSW dungeons with a 70+ guildie and these were brutal and twitchy. He rocked them. Another 60+ guildie I played WoW with (god bless her soul) was a high level raiding warlock in TBC and kicked ass. Just saying.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Its absolute bullshit that you are required to slow down as you age. At some point yes, your body will, but it varies greatly from person to person, and can be slowed or reversed with dum dum dum! Physical activity. I guess that is why I can still compete in shooters. I am very active, and while 48 isn't all that old, with the breathtaking amount of injuries I have sustained over the course of my life I sometimes feel like I am at death's door.

    Good read but read it all.


    You compete, but my guess is you are not competitive.  There's a horde of 20 somethings which would likely wreck you in seconds.

    As you get older that number will only continue to get larger.


    You are very mistaken. I only quit competing in tribes as I just had no time in my life for games. I would advise you to take a look at some of the science behind what you are saying. It is simply not true. At my age bracket anyway. As you get much older things like a proper diet and staying active can go a long way towards avoiding this slowdown.

    Also Age is mostly in your mind, it's a number, not a requirement. The only part of that article that is BS is that old man was not a Royal marine. You can't tell me that boxing and self-defense have nothing to do with twitch and hand/eye coordination
    Post edited by Hatefull on

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • KrimzinKrimzin Member UncommonPosts: 681
    Remember, when the 20 somethings are talking about old people.. they mean YOU.

    AlBQuirky

    Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.

    Best Duo Ever
  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 136
    centkin said:
    Video games are something that is usually aimed at the young and twitchy -- people who are at the pinnacle of their hand-eye coordination -- the same crowd most TV shows are aimed at.

    MMOs do not have to be set up that way.  Indeed in the old days when pings were much worse, games were set up differently. 

    There are a LOT of aging gamers out there and people who weren't gamers but are empty nest, or retiring/retired who have the kind of time and patience needed to excel in an MMO but not the standard current MMO.

    I think if some game company came up with something that specifically catered to the older crowd, it would do surprisingly well. 
    I mean, I assume this could be achievable though as a late-twenties man myself, I don't understand how you'd target over 40s with games?

    What about that Pantheon mmorpg or WoW Classic?
  • FinvegaFinvega Member UncommonPosts: 156
    Ha! I was old when I first fired up Asheron's Call back in the day. Been retired now for quite a while. :smiley:
    Hatefull
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 547
    Hatefull said:
    Kyleran said:
    Hatefull said:
    lahnmir said:
    I know a few 50+ to 70+ players and they do play less twitchy games. Wiz101, Pirate 101, LOTRO, other RPGS.  They just accept they will never be in a "raiding" guild/clan in games like LOTRO.
    I played high level TSW dungeons with a 70+ guildie and these were brutal and twitchy. He rocked them. Another 60+ guildie I played WoW with (god bless her soul) was a high level raiding warlock in TBC and kicked ass. Just saying.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Its absolute bullshit that you are required to slow down as you age. At some point yes, your body will, but it varies greatly from person to person, and can be slowed or reversed with dum dum dum! Physical activity. I guess that is why I can still compete in shooters. I am very active, and while 48 isn't all that old, with the breathtaking amount of injuries I have sustained over the course of my life I sometimes feel like I am at death's door.

    Good read but read it all.


    You compete, but my guess is you are not competitive.  There's a horde of 20 somethings which would likely wreck you in seconds.

    As you get older that number will only continue to get larger.


    You are very mistaken. I only quit competing in tribes as I just had no time in my life for games. I would advise you to take a look at some of the science behind what you are saying. It is simply not true. At my age bracket anyway. As you get much older things like a proper diet and staying active can go a long way towards avoiding this slowdown.

    Also Age is mostly in your mind, it's a number, not a requirement. The only part of that article that is BS is that old man was not a Royal marine. You can't tell me that boxing and self-defense have nothing to do with twitch and hand/eye coordination
    I have a massive study that spans millions of people and more than a century. It's called professional sports. This study is fairly conclusive that ability rapidly declines after 30 in people who stay in great shape for a living, with only a small percentage of genetically gifted people still able to perform competitively after age 35, and virtually none perform at a star level after 40.

    It's undeniable reality that you slow down physically and mentally as you age past your prime.


    "Change in “crystalized” cognitive abilities, represented here as vocabulary, and “fluid” cognitive abilities, represented here as processing speed, with age in normal subjects. Graph is based upon data presented by T.A. Salthouse and colleagues.4 Zero line represents the mean or average performance on these measures, while values above zero represent better than average performance and below the line worse than average performance."


    KyleranTorvalTuor7
  • AstropuyoAstropuyo Member UncommonPosts: 1,945
    Games aren't sports and hand eye rarely has anything to do with age.

    I know old ass WW2 pilots who would ace your asses in war thunder.
    They ace mine.


    Dudes dex only drops if you stop using it. It's why old asses can still sculp etc. This isn't lung capacity here or real blood flow.

    You sit in a room tapping buttons on a keyboard ffs, you aren't a goddamned athlete.

    It's moving your fucking thumbs and tracking motion which last time I checked isn't a under 40 action lol.

    That study is so half assed as it had no control in it. Like what are the samples? Perfect health or imperfect health? Know how many athletes burn out because of wear and tear and not age?

    A FUCK TON OF THEM like almost every single one.

    Like no shit you are going to slow down after 12 years of taking hits to that same knee.


    Anyhow as I've aged I haven't noticed slow down if anything I've gotten smarter about how I go about things.

    Edit: Said study had fucking football players as samples in a time when protection wasn't exactly paramount.
    CaffynatedKyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,019
    Hatefull said:
    Kyleran said:
    Hatefull said:
    lahnmir said:
    I know a few 50+ to 70+ players and they do play less twitchy games. Wiz101, Pirate 101, LOTRO, other RPGS.  They just accept they will never be in a "raiding" guild/clan in games like LOTRO.
    I played high level TSW dungeons with a 70+ guildie and these were brutal and twitchy. He rocked them. Another 60+ guildie I played WoW with (god bless her soul) was a high level raiding warlock in TBC and kicked ass. Just saying.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Its absolute bullshit that you are required to slow down as you age. At some point yes, your body will, but it varies greatly from person to person, and can be slowed or reversed with dum dum dum! Physical activity. I guess that is why I can still compete in shooters. I am very active, and while 48 isn't all that old, with the breathtaking amount of injuries I have sustained over the course of my life I sometimes feel like I am at death's door.

    Good read but read it all.


    You compete, but my guess is you are not competitive.  There's a horde of 20 somethings which would likely wreck you in seconds.

    As you get older that number will only continue to get larger.


    You are very mistaken. I only quit competing in tribes as I just had no time in my life for games. I would advise you to take a look at some of the science behind what you are saying. It is simply not true. At my age bracket anyway. As you get much older things like a proper diet and staying active can go a long way towards avoiding this slowdown.

    Also Age is mostly in your mind, it's a number, not a requirement. The only part of that article that is BS is that old man was not a Royal marine. You can't tell me that boxing and self-defense have nothing to do with twitch and hand/eye coordination
    Believe what you will, the debilitating effects of aging have long been studied and published in dozens if not hundreds of scientific journals.

    https://academic.oup.com/psychsocgerontology/article/55/3/P151/607083#
    craftseeker

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,019
    Astropuyo said:
    Games aren't sports and hand eye rarely has anything to do with age.

    I know old ass WW2 pilots who would ace your asses in war thunder.
    They ace mine.


    Dudes dex only drops if you stop using it. It's why old asses can still sculp etc. This isn't lung capacity here or real blood flow.

    You sit in a room tapping buttons on a keyboard ffs, you aren't a goddamned athlete.

    It's moving your fucking thumbs and tracking motion which last time I checked isn't a under 40 action lol.

    That study is so half assed as it had no control in it. Like what are the samples? Perfect health or imperfect health? Know how many athletes burn out because of wear and tear and not age?

    A FUCK TON OF THEM like almost every single one.

    Like no shit you are going to slow down after 12 years of taking hits to that same knee.


    Anyhow as I've aged I haven't noticed slow down if anything I've gotten smarter about how I go about things.

    Edit: Said study had fucking football players as samples in a time when protection wasn't exactly paramount.
    Please just stop.  You can't point to very many (if any) sports being played at a professional level by an abundance of 40 somethings.

    Sure, competitive shooting and some others probably have a few, but even low impact sports such as PGA golf is dominated by those under 40.

    The seniors tour still has great golfers who would kick the crap outta most of us, but against their younger peers their skills no longer measure up.
    AlBQuirkyTorvalTuor7

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,465
    I believe aging is simply an act of doing less activity,so your muscle memory response loses touch.

    During the cold winter months i am like an old person,i suck lol.However when it gets warmer,i feel like a new person,still quick as a cat and still have a lot of speed and power but at higher speeds i lose coordination.
    Like i have the speed to outrun most young kids but soon i get going too fast my legs get a little out of whack because i never doing anything with speed anymore so them muscle memory is off kilter but imo not lost just because of age.

    The analogy of golf is a prime example,almost NONE of those older guys look in shape.If they kept up their physical conditioning,they could likely match the young kids stroke for stroke.It is simple,play a lot,have some strength,and keep the cardio up so you don't tire.
    Obviously once your no longer on the pro toru anymore,you likely don't practice much anymore,you don't lift weights,you don't jog/run for cardio,you spend more time drinking coffee and hanging out in the clubhouse.

    I think Tiger Woods is a great example.He used to lift apparently heavy weights,so had a lot of strength,he used to practice a LOT,more than anyone else.He started to get high on his money,flirting around with women,quit practicing as much,stopped working out became a very average golfer.Fast forward gets his act back together and becomes a legitimate threat again.Point being that if he maintained his protocol he likely would have remained on top for as long as he wanted or would take another great golfer to dethrone him.

    Point being it is more akin towards your lifestyle than the simple idea of aging.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,465
    edited March 27
    I should have simply pointed to Herschel Walker 56 years old and in better shape than likely 95% of teenagers.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Herschel+Walker+fitness&oq=Herschel+Walker+fitness&aqs=chrome..69i57.4586j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


    I figured people just think ol Wiz is a dumbass ,so i figured by posting a factual person i knew of which is proof it is not just a simple aging thing, people might believe it more but still likely think Wiz is a dumbass lol.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,003
    AlBQuirky said:
    Quizzical said:
    I'm puzzled as to where all these twitchy MMOs that older people can't play are.  I can't name any such games at all off hand.  It's possible that some people are thinking about first person shooters, which I ignore because I don't like that sort of game.

    For starters, most MMORPGs are pretty heavy on vertical progression.  Being one level higher is usually a lot bigger advantage than reacting 20 ms faster.

    There's also the issue that most MMORPGs are tuned to be so easy that everyone wins unless you really have no clue what you're doing or get disconnected or something like that.  Or at least PVE is that way; PVP is a different beast entirely.  If the complaint is about PVP, then the problem is usually one of whales buying advantages or grinding giving advantages, not one of faster reaction times.

    The only semi-MMO games I've played that had PVE content that was both twitchy and challenging were Spiral Knights and Kritika Online.  And in both of those, catching a tell to recognize what a mob was going to do half a second ahead of time was a much bigger advantage than reacting 20 ms (or even 100 ms) faster when the mob actually attacks.
    "Twitchy MMOs" brings to my mind any MMO with block/dodge/roll mechanics. GW2 and ESO is prevalent in my head. Admittedly, I haven't I played many "newer MMOs." EQ was my first MMORPG and my character, not I, took care of that stuff, relayed in the combat chat box :)

    I agree with MMO progression and easy mode, though. MMOs are certainly mainly easy mode, so "everyone gets a gold star" just for showing up. It's funny when players start talking about top level raiding that less than 5%(?) of players even participate in. That means 95%(?) of the players have an easy MMO experience.
    While Guild Wars 2 does have some amount of twitchiness from its dodge mechanic, I'm skeptical that age make it so that people can't play the game.  It's tuned to be easy enough that dodging well only occasionally matters.  If being older means that you can't solo a boss that was intended to have a group fight it, oh well.  That doesn't mean that you can't play the game at all.
    AlBQuirky
  • YukmarcYukmarc Member UncommonPosts: 161
    centkin said:
    Video games are something that is usually aimed at the young and twitchy -- people who are at the pinnacle of their hand-eye coordination -- the same crowd most TV shows are aimed at.

    MMOs do not have to be set up that way.  Indeed in the old days when pings were much worse, games were set up differently. 

    There are a LOT of aging gamers out there and people who weren't gamers but are empty nest, or retiring/retired who have the kind of time and patience needed to excel in an MMO but not the standard current MMO.

    I think if some game company came up with something that specifically catered to the older crowd, it would do surprisingly well. 
    "Even over 50"? I don't feel old... (pulls out Atari 1200 XL and 1050 "Happy" floppy drive...)
    AlBQuirky
  • ErevusErevus Member UncommonPosts: 96
    I think this thread is getting derailed.

    Why TF gaming has to do with who kills the other one faster ?

    All i see in the new era of MMOs is bouncing boobs, credit card outfits, and twitch showoffs.

    Zero brain activity.
    AlBQuirky

    "If men are stronger than women, then why do male characters
     need full plate armor, while women only need a chainmail bikini"


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,003
    I have a massive study that spans millions of people and more than a century. It's called professional sports. This study is fairly conclusive that ability rapidly declines after 30 in people who stay in great shape for a living, with only a small percentage of genetically gifted people still able to perform competitively after age 35, and virtually none perform at a star level after 40. 
    Some abilities decline much faster than others.  Agility, as in the ability to change directions quickly, is one of the first things to go.  That's why most NFL running backs are past their prime by the time they hit free agency for the first time.

    But some physical abilities decline very slowly or even peak later in life.  Brute force strength can peak as late as age 40, which is part of the reason why few MLB rookies hit a ton of home runs, but some aging veterans well into their 30s can still be quite good at hitting home runs, even if they aren't still good at much else.

    Fine motor skills can also remain at an elite level for a very long time.  That's the ability to make very precise movements.  That allows some golfers to be competitive into their 40s, and Tom Watson to push the 2009 British Open to a playoff at the age of 59.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,939
    My biggest problem with action MMORPG is the grind. Combined with action combat it becomes a job in my opinion.

    HatefullAlBQuirky
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,003
    My biggest problem with action MMORPG is the grind. Combined with action combat it becomes a job in my opinion.

    If the problem is that an MMORPG with action combat is too grindy, the problem isn't the action combat.  The problem is that the game is too grindy.  Make the combat not feature so much action and the game would still be too grindy.
    AlBQuirky
  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Limnic said:
    As long as it popped up a reminder every four hours to take their old-people meds, otherwise it might be dangerous.
    Hey! It's not that bad!
    Six tablets in the morning, four at lunch, and a self injection every Thursday! Lots of time for a good MMORPG!
    HatefullAlBQuirky
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,939
    Quizzical said:
    My biggest problem with action MMORPG is the grind. Combined with action combat it becomes a job in my opinion.

    If the problem is that an MMORPG with action combat is too grindy, the problem isn't the action combat.  The problem is that the game is too grindy.  Make the combat not feature so much action and the game would still be too grindy.
    Yes I think most MMORPG are too grindy.
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,189
    Kyleran said:
    Hatefull said:
    Kyleran said:
    Hatefull said:
    lahnmir said:
    I know a few 50+ to 70+ players and they do play less twitchy games. Wiz101, Pirate 101, LOTRO, other RPGS.  They just accept they will never be in a "raiding" guild/clan in games like LOTRO.
    I played high level TSW dungeons with a 70+ guildie and these were brutal and twitchy. He rocked them. Another 60+ guildie I played WoW with (god bless her soul) was a high level raiding warlock in TBC and kicked ass. Just saying.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Its absolute bullshit that you are required to slow down as you age. At some point yes, your body will, but it varies greatly from person to person, and can be slowed or reversed with dum dum dum! Physical activity. I guess that is why I can still compete in shooters. I am very active, and while 48 isn't all that old, with the breathtaking amount of injuries I have sustained over the course of my life I sometimes feel like I am at death's door.

    Good read but read it all.


    You compete, but my guess is you are not competitive.  There's a horde of 20 somethings which would likely wreck you in seconds.

    As you get older that number will only continue to get larger.


    You are very mistaken. I only quit competing in tribes as I just had no time in my life for games. I would advise you to take a look at some of the science behind what you are saying. It is simply not true. At my age bracket anyway. As you get much older things like a proper diet and staying active can go a long way towards avoiding this slowdown.

    Also Age is mostly in your mind, it's a number, not a requirement. The only part of that article that is BS is that old man was not a Royal marine. You can't tell me that boxing and self-defense have nothing to do with twitch and hand/eye coordination
    Believe what you will, the debilitating effects of aging have long been studied and published in dozens if not hundreds of scientific journals.

    https://academic.oup.com/psychsocgerontology/article/55/3/P151/607083#
    I am glad you posted that, as it states, in the very first sentence older adults (over the age of 65) I am 48. I also posted scientific journals, one or two, and I know I can find more that contradict what has been believed. So is your study more pertinent than mine? I think not. 

    At my age, if I wanted to spend the time to learn a game the way I did tribes (it would have to be COD) I could be competitive. 

    Play footbal? No, rugby? Nope. Still fight martial arts, yup. Still surf, swim, ride bikes etc. Curl up and die if you want, I have a long road ahead of me.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,189
    Hatefull said:
    Kyleran said:
    Hatefull said:
    lahnmir said:
    I know a few 50+ to 70+ players and they do play less twitchy games. Wiz101, Pirate 101, LOTRO, other RPGS.  They just accept they will never be in a "raiding" guild/clan in games like LOTRO.
    I played high level TSW dungeons with a 70+ guildie and these were brutal and twitchy. He rocked them. Another 60+ guildie I played WoW with (god bless her soul) was a high level raiding warlock in TBC and kicked ass. Just saying.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Its absolute bullshit that you are required to slow down as you age. At some point yes, your body will, but it varies greatly from person to person, and can be slowed or reversed with dum dum dum! Physical activity. I guess that is why I can still compete in shooters. I am very active, and while 48 isn't all that old, with the breathtaking amount of injuries I have sustained over the course of my life I sometimes feel like I am at death's door.

    Good read but read it all.


    You compete, but my guess is you are not competitive.  There's a horde of 20 somethings which would likely wreck you in seconds.

    As you get older that number will only continue to get larger.


    You are very mistaken. I only quit competing in tribes as I just had no time in my life for games. I would advise you to take a look at some of the science behind what you are saying. It is simply not true. At my age bracket anyway. As you get much older things like a proper diet and staying active can go a long way towards avoiding this slowdown.

    Also Age is mostly in your mind, it's a number, not a requirement. The only part of that article that is BS is that old man was not a Royal marine. You can't tell me that boxing and self-defense have nothing to do with twitch and hand/eye coordination
    I have a massive study that spans millions of people and more than a century. It's called professional sports. This study is fairly conclusive that ability rapidly declines after 30 in people who stay in great shape for a living, with only a small percentage of genetically gifted people still able to perform competitively after age 35, and virtually none perform at a star level after 40.

    It's undeniable reality that you slow down physically and mentally as you age past your prime.


    "Change in “crystalized” cognitive abilities, represented here as vocabulary, and “fluid” cognitive abilities, represented here as processing speed, with age in normal subjects. Graph is based upon data presented by T.A. Salthouse and colleagues.4 Zero line represents the mean or average performance on these measures, while values above zero represent better than average performance and below the line worse than average performance."


    lol I can make a chart too. As I said to Kyleran I am not going to be competing in any football, rugby or anything of the sort. I can still fight and do, and I consistently beat far younger opponents. According to you two that isn't possible. I have lost no muscle mass, even though I have broken my back, cracked my skull I dunno how many times, and had complete dislocations of both shoulders I made it back to being in shape. I still work out and maintain an active lifestyle as do many adults my age.

    Again vary greatly from person to person. I have never denied it is coming, I am denying that at 48, I am there yet.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,189
    Also, if we need to continue this particular debate maybe we make a different thread or just use PM's, I think we have gone far enough afield. I am going to stop responding now as I feel it is just better to agree to disagree at this point and move along.
    AlBQuirky

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • free2playfree2play Member UncommonPosts: 2,018
    The generation gap is more than just hand, eye. Gamers in their 50's and up don't get the same ego boost younger people do. When I say younger, I don't mean 20 and below. As a 50's game, "kids" never tend to be the problem in MMO's. It's the 30-45 group who are compensating in an Online realm that are the problem. The kids are just there to explore and the old people are there to reminisce.

    Really though, none of it matters because all games these days are attempts at one size fits all because it's a wider audience and there is no sign that will change. The bigger the target the bigger the pay off if something sticks to the wall.

    AlBQuirkycraftseeker
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 5,835
    There needs to be an AARPG (Absolutely Ancient RPGers) - for we older gamers to join and have represent our interests. 
    AlBQuirkyHatefullcraftseeker

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

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