This is true proof that it is very hard to take down a juggernaut once it is very big.Why would they pay Steam/Valve twice as much when they could deliver it on Epic storefront.What they don't like money,they can afford to just toss it away?
Well i think it is obvious that they see Steam as still the much bigger entity and will sell many more items through Steam than anywhere else.However in this day n age,it is not really true,the way the internet works with #tags and everything else,there is almost no obstacles in getting a game noticed,so perhaps a package deal wit hzvalve idk,i still wouldn't support valve if only matching Epic orDiscord i would be asking for a DEAL.
idk maybe 8-9%,it's not like Valve has to do much work,their system is all automated,no distributors/publishers to bypass or direct to,just simple downloads.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Heh, Bethesda seems like they're really trying to get back in players' good graces. Saw another post where they confirm their games will be available on Steam. And it was phrased in such a way as to imply "not exclusively on their own platform or Epic's".
On reddit people are claiming they are going to buy Fallout 76 just as a F you to the Outer Worlds. People are idiots
How are they idiots? By buying a meh game over a good one that ships with spyware?
Nope. You have no proof whatsoever that the processes Epic Store runs are spyware as opposed to anti-cheat/hack or anti-tampering, which would look a lot like spyware to an amateur.
Unless you mean those processes shouldn't be allowed for legitimate usage. If so, hope you got a solution for the aforementioned issues then that doesn't involve those processes.
Epic admitted its program read a file in the Steam directory without the user's permission. That's spying, not "legitimate usage".
sure but no one blames steam for making it easy for Epic to read that file in the first place. Something like that should be locked.
So if I smash your window in and rob your house its your fault for not putting bars on the window. Got it.
This is true proof that it is very hard to take down a juggernaut once it is very big.Why would they pay Steam/Valve twice as much when they could deliver it on Epic storefront.What they don't like money,they can afford to just toss it away?
Well i think it is obvious that they see Steam as still the much bigger entity and will sell many more items through Steam than anywhere else.However in this day n age,it is not really true,the way the internet works with #tags and everything else,there is almost no obstacles in getting a game noticed,so perhaps a package deal wit hzvalve idk,i still wouldn't support valve if only matching Epic orDiscord i would be asking for a DEAL.
idk maybe 8-9%,it's not like Valve has to do much work,their system is all automated,no distributors/publishers to bypass or direct to,just simple downloads.
... I really have a difficult time taking you seriously, Wizardry. I can't decide if you're a dedicated contrarian, or just oblivious to what's going on outside your own brain.
Have you been paying attention to gaming news lately regarding Epic? They - with their launcher in particular - are not exactly winning over fans. What with grabbing up "exclusive" deals on long-awaited games, and the spyware-like activity of their launcher snooping around users' Steam data...
Also, Bethesda's been kicking their own ass over the past few months, with back-to-back poor decisions, if you haven't noticed. I don't think making a move like going to Epic instead would be very helpful to them at this point. They need to fill in the hole they've dug themselves, not make it deeper.
And yes, Steam having a substantially larger user base, which means more sales and $ for them in the long run, would be a pretty obvious factor.
FO76 coming to Steam? i can only imagine that means that Steams 'standards' for 'working' games is just low enough a bar for FO76 to scramble over somehow
On reddit people are claiming they are going to buy Fallout 76 just as a F you to the Outer Worlds. People are idiots
How are they idiots? By buying a meh game over a good one that ships with spyware?
Nope. You have no proof whatsoever that the processes Epic Store runs are spyware as opposed to anti-cheat/hack or anti-tampering, which would look a lot like spyware to an amateur.
Unless you mean those processes shouldn't be allowed for legitimate usage. If so, hope you got a solution for the aforementioned issues then that doesn't involve those processes.
Hope you realise this has been proven mutliple times by paid programmers btw. just saying...
On reddit people are claiming they are going to buy Fallout 76 just as a F you to the Outer Worlds. People are idiots
How are they idiots? By buying a meh game over a good one that ships with spyware?
Nope. You have no proof whatsoever that the processes Epic Store runs are spyware as opposed to anti-cheat/hack or anti-tampering, which would look a lot like spyware to an amateur.
Unless you mean those processes shouldn't be allowed for legitimate usage. If so, hope you got a solution for the aforementioned issues then that doesn't involve those processes.
Hope you realise this has been proven mutliple times by paid programmers btw. just saying...
What has been proven, exactly?
That Epic store does things like monitors packets? Because there's legitimate business usage for that.
About the only thing they've done that can't be tied to legitimate business usage is the Steam scrape. The rest isn't a nefarious attempt to infect your system. That's just fear-mongering.
On reddit people are claiming they are going to buy Fallout 76 just as a F you to the Outer Worlds. People are idiots
How are they idiots? By buying a meh game over a good one that ships with spyware?
Nope. You have no proof whatsoever that the processes Epic Store runs are spyware as opposed to anti-cheat/hack or anti-tampering, which would look a lot like spyware to an amateur.
Unless you mean those processes shouldn't be allowed for legitimate usage. If so, hope you got a solution for the aforementioned issues then that doesn't involve those processes.
Hope you realise this has been proven mutliple times by paid programmers btw. just saying...
What has been proven, exactly?
That Epic store does things like monitors packets? Because there's legitimate business usage for that.
About the only thing they've done that can't be tied to legitimate business usage is the Steam scrape. The rest isn't a nefarious attempt to infect your system. That's just fear-mongering.
was already said epic are doing more then just anti hack, does steam do the same? possible, I tend to close steam if i'm not playing something on steam, but it seen epic is just doing it worse.
btw collecting info and selling such info is nothing new, or you think facebook get his money only from ads?
On reddit people are claiming they are going to buy Fallout 76 just as a F you to the Outer Worlds. People are idiots
How are they idiots? By buying a meh game over a good one that ships with spyware?
Nope. You have no proof whatsoever that the processes Epic Store runs are spyware as opposed to anti-cheat/hack or anti-tampering, which would look a lot like spyware to an amateur.
Unless you mean those processes shouldn't be allowed for legitimate usage. If so, hope you got a solution for the aforementioned issues then that doesn't involve those processes.
Hope you realise this has been proven mutliple times by paid programmers btw. just saying...
What has been proven, exactly?
That Epic store does things like monitors packets? Because there's legitimate business usage for that.
About the only thing they've done that can't be tied to legitimate business usage is the Steam scrape. The rest isn't a nefarious attempt to infect your system. That's just fear-mongering.
Yep the Steam scrape which they were entirely happy to let happen behind their customers backs until someone called them on their bullshit. Then they very publicly announced they would change it to a user toggled option. Sure it could have been an innocent mistake but it still throws a monkey wrench into the whole trust issue thing.
you shouldn't trust company and random people anyway, I belive most of people ehre gave his trust too easily, even less trust google and facebook
On reddit people are claiming they are going to buy Fallout 76 just as a F you to the Outer Worlds. People are idiots
How are they idiots? By buying a meh game over a good one that ships with spyware?
Nope. You have no proof whatsoever that the processes Epic Store runs are spyware as opposed to anti-cheat/hack or anti-tampering, which would look a lot like spyware to an amateur.
Unless you mean those processes shouldn't be allowed for legitimate usage. If so, hope you got a solution for the aforementioned issues then that doesn't involve those processes.
Hope you realise this has been proven mutliple times by paid programmers btw. just saying...
What has been proven, exactly?
That Epic store does things like monitors packets? Because there's legitimate business usage for that.
About the only thing they've done that can't be tied to legitimate business usage is the Steam scrape. The rest isn't a nefarious attempt to infect your system. That's just fear-mongering.
Yep the Steam scrape which they were entirely happy to let happen behind their customers backs until someone called them on their bullshit. Then they very publicly announced they would change it to a user toggled option. Sure it could have been an innocent mistake but it still throws a monkey wrench into the whole trust issue thing.
I expect all businesses to leverage these sorts of means. That's why regulations are necessary in an advanced market such as ours. Bitching and screaming on Reddit, for instance, ain't gonna convince tech companies to stop harvesting information. It will take real, decisive action, the kind citizens can't enact by themselves.
But nope, that's evil to many of my fellow countrymen too, apparently, so we just have to sit here making tin foil hats and hoping these companies will just stop outta the goodness of their hearts. As I mentioned in another thread, consumers are too lazy to even change their habits when it's obvious a company is fucking them unrepentantly over and over.
That's why, if Epic is harvesting information for legitimate business usage (i.e. advertising), they're not doing anything wrong. At least, nothing more wrong than any other tech company that gets a pass.
Honestly, there's too much to keep track of for the average person these days. My simply posting here from my smartphone necessitates that I have implied consent to multiple long hard-to-read agreements with multiple companies. The idea that a consumer even has the knowledge or means to fully protect themselves anymore is hogwash, in my opinion.
and here is the problem, regulation will not solve this, they will just hide it better, or become black market thing, also remember the very first buyer of such info is the very own goverment you so trust, goverment not only should NOT be trusted in any case, by also everything they do should be questioned about on who they are benefiting, the real ones, and if they say its for the population you can be sure its a lie
also put something in your head, there is not legitimate usage on info ads are the very least manipulation, I don't belive steam need to use spyware like epic does, because people already give then that info to then for free, on every like and dislike they do for games, they cross tags a lot there, putting spywares would be useless by now, when they started I belive they did use though
Personally I'm mostly interested in Doom Eternal but I care more about how much the game will cost and less about which launcher opens when I click the game shortcut.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Our game failed, we want more money, maybe these Steam customers haven't heard how awful this game is yet..mwahahahaha
It's worse than that. Bethesda seemed to want to divorce from Steam at one point, by shutting down both workshops for Skyrim and Fallout 4 and not publishing 76 straight on Steam like they did with previous games.
It's more like they begged Steam to have them back.
Steam (and its Workshop) did wonders for Bethesda.
On reddit people are claiming they are going to buy Fallout 76 just as a F you to the Outer Worlds. People are idiots
How are they idiots? By buying a meh game over a good one that ships with spyware?
Nope. You have no proof whatsoever that the processes Epic Store runs are spyware as opposed to anti-cheat/hack or anti-tampering, which would look a lot like spyware to an amateur.
Unless you mean those processes shouldn't be allowed for legitimate usage. If so, hope you got a solution for the aforementioned issues then that doesn't involve those processes.
Hope you realise this has been proven mutliple times by paid programmers btw. just saying...
What has been proven, exactly?
That Epic store does things like monitors packets? Because there's legitimate business usage for that.
About the only thing they've done that can't be tied to legitimate business usage is the Steam scrape. The rest isn't a nefarious attempt to infect your system. That's just fear-mongering.
"Tim Sweeney himself then waded into the debate, actually citing the reason for the code was because he wanted the Epic Games Store to launch as quickly as possible: “You guys are right that we ought to only access the localconfig.vdf file after the user chooses to import Steam friends. The current implementation is a remnant left over from our rush to implement social features in the early days of Fortnite. It’s actually my fault for pushing the launcher team to support it super quickly and then identifying that we had to change it. Since this issue came to the forefront we’re going to fix it.”" - Source
That last line, which I bolded, is so telling. I can't decide if it's a freudian slip, or if he really doesn't think such an admission is a problem. It's not that they were doing it at all that he sees as the problem. It's that it came to the forefront. In other words, people caught it happening and sounded the alarm. What if it hadn't been caught?
Bottom line: There's no reason for the *Epic* launcher to be snooping around the *Steam* launcher.
Come on. There's no defending or spinning that into something innocuous.
On reddit people are claiming they are going to buy Fallout 76 just as a F you to the Outer Worlds. People are idiots
How are they idiots? By buying a meh game over a good one that ships with spyware?
Nope. You have no proof whatsoever that the processes Epic Store runs are spyware as opposed to anti-cheat/hack or anti-tampering, which would look a lot like spyware to an amateur.
Unless you mean those processes shouldn't be allowed for legitimate usage. If so, hope you got a solution for the aforementioned issues then that doesn't involve those processes.
Hope you realise this has been proven mutliple times by paid programmers btw. just saying...
What has been proven, exactly?
That Epic store does things like monitors packets? Because there's legitimate business usage for that.
About the only thing they've done that can't be tied to legitimate business usage is the Steam scrape. The rest isn't a nefarious attempt to infect your system. That's just fear-mongering.
"Tim Sweeney himself then waded into the debate, actually citing the reason for the code was because he wanted the Epic Games Store to launch as quickly as possible: “You guys are right that we ought to only access the localconfig.vdf file after the user chooses to import Steam friends. The current implementation is a remnant left over from our rush to implement social features in the early days of Fortnite. It’s actually my fault for pushing the launcher team to support it super quickly and then identifying that we had to change it. Since this issue came to the forefront we’re going to fix it.”" - Source
That last line, which I bolded, is so telling. I can't decide if it's a freudian slip, or if he really doesn't think such an admission is a problem. It's not that they were doing it at all that he sees as the problem. It's that it came to the forefront. In other words, people caught it happening and sounded the alarm. What if it hadn't been caught?
Bottom line: There's no reason for the *Epic* launcher to be snooping around the *Steam* launcher.
Come on. There's no defending or spinning that into something innocuous.
And yet, they still weren't scraping it to try and lift dangerous personal data, as far as I can tell. You got a social media account? Ever used the social media account to login to another app or site? How about an online shopping account? I'd be much more worried about those.
They aren't a hacker group. They are doing what every damn tech-based company does every day: they're taking advantage of the still-wild-wild-west internet environment to maximize revenue potential by collecting data from you. Consumers only give a shit about this, quite frankly, in certain instances (like when the company has the audacity to try and compete with another company the consumer likes, or when the company offers something the consumer has made a cornerstone of their lives). Hating the player, not the game.
Do tell how this data that Epic harvested has been used to damage or harm any consumer involved. I'm curious to hear what evil shit Epic is up to with Steam friends lists
EDIT- My overarching point, condensed: if the past few years living in America have taught me anything (though the realization itself has only recently started to set in fully), it's this: principles, specifically in competitive environments, are for suckers. They're a moral life raft one clings to for emotional support in the face of becoming utterly dominated by those who adhere to no such rules or guidelines. As such, it feels silly to condemn any particular entity for acting outside of what's perceived as normal principles anymore.
It's a prisoner's dilemma for companies and other public entities, and that's the fault of the consumer and/or electorate masses. Those same masses seem either utterly oblivious or uncaring, even when faced very blatantly with the certainty of the harm these unprincipled entities do to the general public. Certainly, they aren't acting to correct it in any meaningful or coordinated way. So, clinging to principles is foolish.
Comments
Well i think it is obvious that they see Steam as still the much bigger entity and will sell many more items through Steam than anywhere else.However in this day n age,it is not really true,the way the internet works with #tags and everything else,there is almost no obstacles in getting a game noticed,so perhaps a package deal wit hzvalve idk,i still wouldn't support valve if only matching Epic orDiscord i would be asking for a DEAL. idk maybe 8-9%,it's not like Valve has to do much work,their system is all automated,no distributors/publishers to bypass or direct to,just simple downloads.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Good move regardless.
Epic's launcher is poison at this point.
So if I smash your window in and rob your house its your fault for not putting bars on the window. Got it.
I really have a difficult time taking you seriously, Wizardry. I can't decide if you're a dedicated contrarian, or just oblivious to what's going on outside your own brain.
Have you been paying attention to gaming news lately regarding Epic? They - with their launcher in particular - are not exactly winning over fans. What with grabbing up "exclusive" deals on long-awaited games, and the spyware-like activity of their launcher snooping around users' Steam data...
Also, Bethesda's been kicking their own ass over the past few months, with back-to-back poor decisions, if you haven't noticed. I don't think making a move like going to Epic instead would be very helpful to them at this point. They need to fill in the hole they've dug themselves, not make it deeper.
And yes, Steam having a substantially larger user base, which means more sales and $ for them in the long run, would be a pretty obvious factor.
Nothing idiotic about making a statement with your wallet. It's the only language that large corporations understand.
Hope you realise this has been proven mutliple times by paid programmers btw. just saying...
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
That Epic store does things like monitors packets? Because there's legitimate business usage for that.
About the only thing they've done that can't be tied to legitimate business usage is the Steam scrape. The rest isn't a nefarious attempt to infect your system. That's just fear-mongering.
But nope, that's evil to many of my fellow countrymen too, apparently, so we just have to sit here making tin foil hats and hoping these companies will just stop outta the goodness of their hearts. As I mentioned in another thread, consumers are too lazy to even change their habits when it's obvious a company is fucking them unrepentantly over and over.
That's why, if Epic is harvesting information for legitimate business usage (i.e. advertising), they're not doing anything wrong. At least, nothing more wrong than any other tech company that gets a pass.
Honestly, there's too much to keep track of for the average person these days. My simply posting here from my smartphone necessitates that I have implied consent to multiple long hard-to-read agreements with multiple companies. The idea that a consumer even has the knowledge or means to fully protect themselves anymore is hogwash, in my opinion.
Bethesda seemed to want to divorce from Steam at one point, by shutting down both workshops for Skyrim and Fallout 4 and not publishing 76 straight on Steam like they did with previous games.
It's more like they begged Steam to have them back.
Steam (and its Workshop) did wonders for Bethesda.
That last line, which I bolded, is so telling. I can't decide if it's a freudian slip, or if he really doesn't think such an admission is a problem. It's not that they were doing it at all that he sees as the problem. It's that it came to the forefront. In other words, people caught it happening and sounded the alarm. What if it hadn't been caught?
Bottom line: There's no reason for the *Epic* launcher to be snooping around the *Steam* launcher.
Come on. There's no defending or spinning that into something innocuous.
They aren't a hacker group. They are doing what every damn tech-based company does every day: they're taking advantage of the still-wild-wild-west internet environment to maximize revenue potential by collecting data from you. Consumers only give a shit about this, quite frankly, in certain instances (like when the company has the audacity to try and compete with another company the consumer likes, or when the company offers something the consumer has made a cornerstone of their lives). Hating the player, not the game.
Do tell how this data that Epic harvested has been used to damage or harm any consumer involved. I'm curious to hear what evil shit Epic is up to with Steam friends lists
EDIT- My overarching point, condensed: if the past few years living in America have taught me anything (though the realization itself has only recently started to set in fully), it's this: principles, specifically in competitive environments, are for suckers. They're a moral life raft one clings to for emotional support in the face of becoming utterly dominated by those who adhere to no such rules or guidelines. As such, it feels silly to condemn any particular entity for acting outside of what's perceived as normal principles anymore.
It's a prisoner's dilemma for companies and other public entities, and that's the fault of the consumer and/or electorate masses. Those same masses seem either utterly oblivious or uncaring, even when faced very blatantly with the certainty of the harm these unprincipled entities do to the general public. Certainly, they aren't acting to correct it in any meaningful or coordinated way. So, clinging to principles is foolish.