I would like to see more MMORPG actually have things players don't understand nor data mine. Having a huge world and mysteries out ther and let player research and theorize problems.
Yup. And getting rid of the number game as much as possible. Developers should try and remove formulas and numbers/tables from the clients (as much as is possible), and instead have the server "hold the secrets" and send the results. Obviously it can still be data mined, but not just by decompiling the client, they would have analyse actual gameplay over time and say for all levels/classes/resists/etcetc.
Marketing and its hype machine dictates that we must know, you need to know what type of coffe game designers drink, never mind every detail about the game.
Same for the whole entertainment industry, there is no room for surprise, everything is super cool and you need to know about it yesterday. No matter how hard you try they catch you out, I avoid trailers etc but they will get you.
I remember switching over the TV and seeing the biggest surprise from Men in Black, there in a trailer before I realised what it was and switched again. But as with so much in gaming and entertainment this is just part of an evolving process that never has a final destination, the hype train just rolls out ever bigger and faster.
I just don't see it this way, sure, you can name a few extreme examples, but in general gaming is so vast few except those like blue turtle or dmkano can know everything about all of them.
I can't count how many times a game is discussed here which I've never even heard of, and in most cases I don't bother to go look them up.
Even games I'm following I don't go seeking out info on, CU sends me weekly emails, invites me to test, attend blogs etc and I ignore them all, it really is a personal choice.
People say not following a game or seeking out every bit of info puts me at a disadvantage, probably true.
I've long accepted no matter how much effort is put in or edge I try to get there will always be many out there who surpass me.
I've learned to run my own race in most aspects of my life including multiplayer gaming.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Marketing and its hype machine dictates that we must know, you need to know what type of coffe game designers drink, never mind every detail about the game.
Same for the whole entertainment industry, there is no room for surprise, everything is super cool and you need to know about it yesterday. No matter how hard you try they catch you out, I avoid trailers etc but they will get you.
I remember switching over the TV and seeing the biggest surprise from Men in Black, there in a trailer before I realised what it was and switched again. But as with so much in gaming and entertainment this is just part of an evolving process that never has a final destination, the hype train just rolls out ever bigger and faster.
I just don't see it this way, sure, you can name a few extreme examples, but in general gaming is so vast few except those like blue turtle or dmkano can know everything about all of them.
I can't count how many times a game is discussed here which I've never even heard of, and in most cases I don't bother to go look them up.
Even games I'm following I don't go seeking out info on, CU sends me weekly emails, invites me to test, attend blogs etc and I ignore them all, it really is a personal choice.
People say not following a game or seeking out every bit of info puts me at a disadvantage, probably true.
I've long accepted no matter how much effort is put in or edge I try to get there will always be many out there who surpass me.
I've learned to run my own race in most aspects of my life including multiplayer gaming.
Sure but it is hard to avoid it, the page I am on now wants me to know about Pokémon, Dragon Born Online and Guardians of Ember. All but DBO do not tell me much but the DBO has a synopsis of the game...I will close my eyes.
But I agree there is a world of difference once you start actively following a game or Tv series online, once you do that you cannot expect an once of mystery to be left.
When I was a kid I remember going to the store to buy computer games.. I would see the game boxes on the shelf and start getting a woody just wondering how cool the games must be to play... These were the days before game developers ever interacted with people when they were developing their games.. The games still had magic because there was mystery... and the only thing you had was a game manual to read..
Now a days the idiots hold press conferences about their games, and hands on presentations, and 17,000 videos of gameplay and basically everyone has already played it before it even comes out.
idiots.
Here's a good forum topic from another forum, titled "The Lost Magic":
Every now and then I run out of games to play and have no choice but to
revisit the classics. This isn’t nostalgia. I’d rather play something
new, and I like shiny graphics as much as the next guy, but fuck, man,
there's only so much shit a person can handle.
So, oldie but goodie it is. Today we’ll take a look at 1994's Realms of Arkania 2: Star Trail and see what we've lost.
My opinion is they expanded the size of the gaming population. Early on, a higher number of gamers were more like you and me. We liked having to dig to figure things out. But the newer gamers, as the years went by, as the millions of them poured into the market, well, they don't like it. Action became something more important too, and the ability of a game to seamlessly run on consoels and PCs. This is starting to become true for mobiles too, since they're a big market now. This means AAA games are ending up to be a mixture of everything, abandoning the gamers on the margins to the indies.
Considering how many times players have been burned by kickstarters and gofundme, etc... and the fact that the majority of new MMORGs are going to be coming from indy studios, I would rather be over-informed on progress than under-informed. Of course, there is a threshold where a game studio can give out too much, but the games I am most interested in; Ship of Heroes and Pantheon, are giving out as much as I want to see without giving away the farm.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
While i agree with the OP and understand the sentiment, i have an easy solution that works for me. I avoid marketing for the game I want, at all cost.
Every time I see something about Cyberpunk 2077 i turn the other way. Can't wait to play that game but no media will spoil me a second of surprise/mystery.
While i agree with the OP and understand the sentiment, i have an easy solution that works for me. I avoid marketing for the game I want, at all cost.
Every time I see something about Cyberpunk 2077 i turn the other way. Can't wait to play that game but no media will spoil me a second of surprise/mystery.
That's how I am with Pantehon. I don't look at hte videos. I've only seen a few intervidws with Brad and company, and maybe read a few blurbs on websites over the years about what they hope it'll be.
Another reason I'm this way is because I know how much games can change between Beta and a launch, and a couple months after launch--believe it or not. Pantheon might turn 180. I sort of expect it because there's so much opposition out there. I don't wnat to get too emotionally invested when betrayal is so likely.
While i agree with the OP and understand the sentiment, i have an easy solution that works for me. I avoid marketing for the game I want, at all cost.
Every time I see something about Cyberpunk 2077 i turn the other way. Can't wait to play that game but no media will spoil me a second of surprise/mystery.
I personally feel this doesn't work for MMORPG's. I'm a firm believer that everyone should start on the same playing field and have to figure stuff out in game on a live product. I find the interactions between players better that way.
Having play test servers that anyone can join for new games or just new expansions completely ruins the final product for me in that sense. Having every aspect of a new game or expansion figured out in guide form before it even goes live is so counterproductive to what MMORPG's should be.
Having the option to look away is not really an option to me.
It's in the nature of today's promo for companies to milk themselves to death.
Why play Multiplayer Gorefest 3 when you can binge-watch the 702-hour stream of the game devs discussing its inception over champagne and canapes as they luxuriated in a mountaintop spa pool in a selection of spangly game-themed swimwear?
Why quest for days in The Dungeons of Impossible Horror when you can listen to endless podcasts where the game's inspired originator recalls the legendary tale of how his brainchild took seed after his 9yo pug developed dysentry ... and NEARLY DIED?
And what's wrong with switching out surprise and mystery by blitzing through the walkthrough on your very first run ... so you can gain big time kudos, dominate a zillion leaderboards, and figure in a chance to win THE REMAINS OF A PIZZA once NEARLY EATEN by the game company CEO's collection of TRAINED IGUANAS as he celebrated the 70th Million Dollar Level Up to his bank account c/o "the slavering hordes"?
Stumpiness & Unbridled Misery Masquerading as VIRTUE
Need an AI-Free Elf Names Generator to bring your next elven character to life? Why ... course you do, you darn fool!
Share everything and you "ruin the magic." Share nothing and you're not "being transparent."
Make up your minds people! Seriously, developers get shit on a daily basis for games they announced because "YOU GUYS AREN'T TALKING TO US ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING." They can't win, they either share too much or they share too little. Either too much marketing or they flub the marketing and don't get enough sales to pay their developers. If they are doing a video, doing a dev stream, doing whatever; just don't watch it. You can choose not to watch a video that they put out, but someone who is on the fence about the game that just needs that little push to flop to either side can't choose to have a video created for him that will give him the nudge he needs to decide.
Days of 'discovering' wont ever come back simply because, as mentioned earlier, the internet is too vast coupled with filled with people trying to make anything for money. In general, too many things are so desperate for money, whether it be big companies/individuals/small business etc, its all about profit margins with minimal investment. People could argue that it was always like that and in the past it just wasnt as known how to take advantage of to the degree it has become now, but its also sad to see the quality of every becoming diminished as a result. Remember back in the day when there were actually game stores that had game release dates that may only have about 10 games on the list for the year? And you knew most of them would be good. Now there's 100s of games if not thousands flooding steam on a daily looking like they were developed for the nes. Or some of them not even being games at all and are interactive books. I get times will always change, its just sad that they dont feel like they are changing for the better for the most part. You gotta dig through too much garbage now-a-days to find gems.
This statement is true however there are a lot of angles to making money before the game is released that did not exist 20+ years ago.Even down to the smallest denominator of utilizing social media accounts. Many developers are out to get paid for their game before it is even made,this removal of debt is why we get so many really bad developers showing up.
Another common tactic,the Early Access one is a scummy way to undermine the law,basically saying you are buying the game AS IS,so if it's broken,doesn't work,all around crap ,too bad you signed up for that. There also used to be a time when the media/websites would lay it out on the line when a product was bad,so poorly designed games took a lot of flack,they had nobody to hide behind.Now a days there is so much money in the media they all work together to help promote and endorse the products.
So yeah in those old days of buying a boxed game,you got a finished product,it for the most part just worked and that in a day when we had to configure computers ourselves meant more effort to make sure it worked back then than now.
The ENTIRE scope of gaming is just scummy now,you can even blame the consumers for buying all the early access game and even 15-20 years ago those that were buying PRE ORDERS for NO reason were leading up to this point in time of early access.Everything works in small increments but gets worse over time,just like when we first saw cash shops,it started small then lead up to loot boxes to p2w.
So now you live in an even more crappy world with a lot of crappy people helping to make it worse.Really it is all just common sense but money trumps everything right now,so a lot of deception and lies floating around.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The gaming community has gone from consumers to consumer/documenter/tutorial maker/graphics and engine modder/beta and alpha tester. Developers barely have to make a game any more now that gamers will do a lot of their work for free (or even pay to do the work).
In this kind of environment how can we not know every little detail.
lets just conveniently forget how actual beta testers who do this as a job get paid and have strict criterias to attend while players have no obligation to buy into early acces mmos or even give feedback.
also beta testers usually didnt got a copy of the final product.
The gaming community has gone from consumers to consumer/documenter/tutorial maker/graphics and engine modder/beta and alpha tester. Developers barely have to make a game any more now that gamers will do a lot of their work for free (or even pay to do the work).
In this kind of environment how can we not know every little detail.
Don't forget "entitled investor" with the crowd funding
though even kickstarter.com tried desperately to remind people that backing game isnt the same as buying a game
Comments
Developers should try and remove formulas and numbers/tables from the clients (as much as is possible), and instead have the server "hold the secrets" and send the results. Obviously it can still be data mined, but not just by decompiling the client, they would have analyse actual gameplay over time and say for all levels/classes/resists/etcetc.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I can't count how many times a game is discussed here which I've never even heard of, and in most cases I don't bother to go look them up.
Even games I'm following I don't go seeking out info on, CU sends me weekly emails, invites me to test, attend blogs etc and I ignore them all, it really is a personal choice.
People say not following a game or seeking out every bit of info puts me at a disadvantage, probably true.
I've long accepted no matter how much effort is put in or edge I try to get there will always be many out there who surpass me.
I've learned to run my own race in most aspects of my life including multiplayer gaming.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But I agree there is a world of difference once you start actively following a game or Tv series online, once you do that you cannot expect an once of mystery to be left.
But on the other hand, if a game is going to suck, and I have a chance to avoid paying $60 to learn that, I can find better uses for that $60.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
So, oldie but goodie it is. Today we’ll take a look at 1994's Realms of Arkania 2: Star Trail and see what we've lost.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
Every time I see something about Cyberpunk 2077 i turn the other way. Can't wait to play that game but no media will spoil me a second of surprise/mystery.
Having play test servers that anyone can join for new games or just new expansions completely ruins the final product for me in that sense. Having every aspect of a new game or expansion figured out in guide form before it even goes live is so counterproductive to what MMORPG's should be.
Having the option to look away is not really an option to me.
Share nothing and you're not "being transparent."
Make up your minds people! Seriously, developers get shit on a daily basis for games they announced because "YOU GUYS AREN'T TALKING TO US ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING." They can't win, they either share too much or they share too little. Either too much marketing or they flub the marketing and don't get enough sales to pay their developers. If they are doing a video, doing a dev stream, doing whatever; just don't watch it. You can choose not to watch a video that they put out, but someone who is on the fence about the game that just needs that little push to flop to either side can't choose to have a video created for him that will give him the nudge he needs to decide.
Many developers are out to get paid for their game before it is even made,this removal of debt is why we get so many really bad developers showing up.
Another common tactic,the Early Access one is a scummy way to undermine the law,basically saying you are buying the game AS IS,so if it's broken,doesn't work,all around crap ,too bad you signed up for that.
There also used to be a time when the media/websites would lay it out on the line when a product was bad,so poorly designed games took a lot of flack,they had nobody to hide behind.Now a days there is so much money in the media they all work together to help promote and endorse the products.
So yeah in those old days of buying a boxed game,you got a finished product,it for the most part just worked and that in a day when we had to configure computers ourselves meant more effort to make sure it worked back then than now.
The ENTIRE scope of gaming is just scummy now,you can even blame the consumers for buying all the early access game and even 15-20 years ago those that were buying PRE ORDERS for NO reason were leading up to this point in time of early access.Everything works in small increments but gets worse over time,just like when we first saw cash shops,it started small then lead up to loot boxes to p2w.
So now you live in an even more crappy world with a lot of crappy people helping to make it worse.Really it is all just common sense but money trumps everything right now,so a lot of deception and lies floating around.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.