The amount of people playing on wow pvp and wow pve server are roughly the same. (before they changed all the server to a flag pvp system)
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
The amount of people playing on wow pvp and wow pve server are roughly the same. (before they changed all the server to a flag pvp system)
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
Because WoW had safe places and you could easily avoid OWPVP is you wanted to. It was nowhere near as rough as other OWPVP games.
Eve as others have pointed out has the majority of the players in "safer" space so it is logical to assume they aren't into PvP as much.
Not sure about the numbers, and honestly, too lazy to look it up. Not sure what point you are making with that.
I'm adding to the response someone says about pvp servers dwarf pve servers 100 to 1.
For wow at least that is not true. From my limited time playing wow in vanilla, since the game is faction base, and people spend much of their time in their faction zone, OWPvP don't happen as much.
Actually, the problem with PvP games in general, that includes FPS games as well, is the fact you can't play one without running into someone who's cheating in order to kill you.
Not really: devs collect metrics which are then sanity-checked and flagged for suspicious activity. They wrote the game, after all; they have the best understanding of how it works.
I don't think I've ever run into a cheater in the PvP MMO I play thanks to copious data collection on the part of the devs.
That is simply not true. Every game follows some marketing model. And it is not based on current metrics. If you were right all the games would be very successful.
Also people cheat in every competitive game - it is not necessary using of hacks or bots, they pay more or play more, which is also cheating.
And again I will point the problem with the solo PvE and vertical progression. Something most of people here completely ignore.
If you play football, chess, or sprint - more time spent does not lead automatically to success. It is a question of strategy, talent, abilities. In many MMOs more time is equal to win, because of the power gaps, and that is simply not fair.
I don't think you understand: when I write metrics I mean performance related statistics: things that might be influenced by cheating. It has nothing to do with marketing: you are on a whole different island, there.
I fail to see how playing more equates to cheating, and as I stated several pages ago I play in a game where there are no huge, level-based power gaps; it's a game that depends very much on player skill, and there is a high ceiling.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
The amount of people playing on wow pvp and wow pve server are roughly the same. (before they changed all the server to a flag pvp system)
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
The amount of people playing on wow pvp and wow pve server are roughly the same. (before they changed all the server to a flag pvp system)
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
Because WoW had safe places and you could easily avoid OWPVP is you wanted to. It was nowhere near as rough as other OWPVP games.
Eve as others have pointed out has the majority of the players in "safer" space so it is logical to assume they aren't into PvP as much.
Not sure about the numbers, and honestly, too lazy to look it up. Not sure what point you are making with that.
I'm adding to the response someone says about pvp servers dwarf pve servers 100 to 1.
For wow at least that is not true. From my limited time playing wow in vanilla, since the game is faction base, and people spend much of their time in their faction zone, OWPvP don't happen as much.
Right and I agree with you as Open world PvP was so easy to avoid. So it really did not matter if you rolled on a PvP or a PvE server, it had minimal impact on your play session unless you wanted it to ergo numbers were very similar on each. I think the point he was trying to make is, on a true OWPVP server (not WoW or similar) you will see a lot more people choose the PvE option over the PvP option as the PvP servers tend to suck, for a lot of reasons.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
The amount of people playing on wow pvp and wow pve server are roughly the same. (before they changed all the server to a flag pvp system)
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
The amount of people playing on wow pvp and wow pve server are roughly the same. (before they changed all the server to a flag pvp system)
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
Because WoW had safe places and you could easily avoid OWPVP is you wanted to. It was nowhere near as rough as other OWPVP games.
Eve as others have pointed out has the majority of the players in "safer" space so it is logical to assume they aren't into PvP as much.
Not sure about the numbers, and honestly, too lazy to look it up. Not sure what point you are making with that.
I'm adding to the response someone says about pvp servers dwarf pve servers 100 to 1.
For wow at least that is not true. From my limited time playing wow in vanilla, since the game is faction base, and people spend much of their time in their faction zone, OWPvP don't happen as much.
Right and I agree with you as Open world PvP was so easy to avoid. So it really did not matter if you rolled on a PvP or a PvE server, it had minimal impact on your play session unless you wanted it to ergo numbers were very similar on each. I think the point he was trying to make is, on a true OWPVP server (not WoW or similar) you will see a lot more people choose the PvE option over the PvP option as the PvP servers tend to suck, for a lot of reasons.
PVP is typically poor in most MMORPG. They are usually just tacked on or retrofitted to work in a PVE game. That said you are not going to entrap him because he will state PVE won't exist in his game or something of that nature.
Usually, the PVP server in PVE games go live they are flooded. The problem is there usually isn't a point and you are playing Quake arena. You still need levels and have power gaps.
It is hard to tell how successful a PVP game would be since they all pretty much have been low budget. To me even in PVP needs goals beyond just kill each other.
The amount of people playing on wow pvp and wow pve server are roughly the same. (before they changed all the server to a flag pvp system)
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
The amount of people playing on wow pvp and wow pve server are roughly the same. (before they changed all the server to a flag pvp system)
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
Because WoW had safe places and you could easily avoid OWPVP is you wanted to. It was nowhere near as rough as other OWPVP games.
Eve as others have pointed out has the majority of the players in "safer" space so it is logical to assume they aren't into PvP as much.
Not sure about the numbers, and honestly, too lazy to look it up. Not sure what point you are making with that.
I'm adding to the response someone says about pvp servers dwarf pve servers 100 to 1.
For wow at least that is not true. From my limited time playing wow in vanilla, since the game is faction base, and people spend much of their time in their faction zone, OWPvP don't happen as much.
Right and I agree with you as Open world PvP was so easy to avoid. So it really did not matter if you rolled on a PvP or a PvE server, it had minimal impact on your play session unless you wanted it to ergo numbers were very similar on each. I think the point he was trying to make is, on a true OWPVP server (not WoW or similar) you will see a lot more people choose the PvE option over the PvP option as the PvP servers tend to suck, for a lot of reasons.
PVP is typically poor in most MMORPG. They are usually just tacked on or retrofitted to work in a PVE game. That said you are not going to entrap him because he will state PVE won't exist in his game or something of that nature.
Usually, the PVP server in PVE games go live they are flooded. The problem is there usually isn't a point and you are playing Quake arena. You still need levels and have power gaps.
It is hard to tell how successful a PVP game would be since they all pretty much have been low budget. To me even in PVP needs goals beyond just kill each other.
So glad you said that last sentence. I could not agree more! This is why, in my opinion, DAoC and PS2 are good games. It's not just go slaughter for the sake of slaughter, it is capturing points. I am in no way saying either game is perfect, and I don't want to have that discussion in this thread.
What I am saying is: they had some great ideas, what if the only way to get Legendary crafting materials was to hold a point so your harvesters (speaking faction here) could get said material to craft better gear? Or as AoC tried, holding the resource map so you could build your Keep. You were constantly in danger (or would have been if AoC had a healthy player base) of being jumped while gathering and building your base was a weeks-long process.
In my opinion, all three games (I realize other games had similar ideas but for brevities sake) had great ideas that were poorly timed or implemented and would have seen a lot better success if they were not an afterthought, which agrees with your assertion that tacked on PvP is rarely a good thing.
I think there is an answer out there that will appeal to the majority of the players base as it pertains to PvP in MMOs, RPGs or otherwise, I just think no one has got it to work yet.
There is a reason COD launches a new iteration on almost a yearly basis, shooting each other is only fun for a finite amount of time, there has to be a hook and an uneven number of factions in order to make a start. IMO of course.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Actually, the problem with PvP games in general, that includes FPS games as well, is the fact you can't play one without running into someone who's cheating in order to kill you.
Not really: devs collect metrics which are then sanity-checked and flagged for suspicious activity. They wrote the game, after all; they have the best understanding of how it works.
I don't think I've ever run into a cheater in the PvP MMO I play thanks to copious data collection on the part of the devs.
I know for a fact I have seen cheaters in games like PS2 and many other titles, I also know that hackusations get thrown around a lot and most of the time they are baseless. Lots of people can't handle losing and they make excuses to feel better about it and cheating is the easy go to.
Not saying it does not happen, I am saying it is nowhere near as bad as some people would want us to think.
You mean like this...
"Apex Legends has banned 500,000 accounts for cheating"
"PUBG bans pro players, 30,000 others for cheating"
"Ultima Online fires employee over cheating scandal"
And I'm sure we could show other games with grossly exaggerated numbers according to you? Am I right?
Yeah most likely, compared to the player base those are pretty small. Which means you aren't going to see a cheater in even on in a 100 rounds you play. Which proves my point nicely, there are not many cheaters, but damn there sure are a lot of whiners. Get gud son.
Edit: the only article I see about Apex banning says 16K, so yeah over inflate much? or link your source. And get gud.
2nd EDIT: I think I found your reference, about the 500K (it's actually 499,937) on their reddit page. I also saw a heap of people saying they got falsely accused and banned, so I am betting that number is far lower as whiners tend to /report every time they get killed. Which is funny to me. I would like to see how many of those 499,937 accounts get reinstated.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Actually, the problem with PvP games in general, that includes FPS games as well, is the fact you can't play one without running into someone who's cheating in order to kill you.
Not really: devs collect metrics which are then sanity-checked and flagged for suspicious activity. They wrote the game, after all; they have the best understanding of how it works.
I don't think I've ever run into a cheater in the PvP MMO I play thanks to copious data collection on the part of the devs.
I know for a fact I have seen cheaters in games like PS2 and many other titles, I also know that hackusations get thrown around a lot and most of the time they are baseless. Lots of people can't handle losing and they make excuses to feel better about it and cheating is the easy go to.
Not saying it does not happen, I am saying it is nowhere near as bad as some people would want us to think.
You mean like this...
"Apex Legends has banned 500,000 accounts for cheating"
"PUBG bans pro players, 30,000 others for cheating"
"Ultima Online fires employee over cheating scandal"
And I'm sure we could show other games with grossly exaggerated numbers according to you? Am I right?
Yeah most likely, compared to the player base those are pretty small. Which means you aren't going to see a cheater in even on in a 100 rounds you play. Which proves my point nicely, there are not many cheaters, but damn there sure are a lot of whiners. Get gud son.
Edit the only article I see about Apex banning says 16K, so yeah over inflate much? or link your source. And get gud.
Judging by your ancient 1337 PvP elitist mentality, I can see where you would defend cheaters and claim they don't exist. Perhaps you need to get gud son and practice googling without using cheats for that as well.
You sound hurt, go read my edits. LOl are you just hovering there frothing at the mouth waiting to respond? I bet you are. LOL! Why so mad bro? Get gud!
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Actually, the problem with PvP games in general, that includes FPS games as well, is the fact you can't play one without running into someone who's cheating in order to kill you.
Not really: devs collect metrics which are then sanity-checked and flagged for suspicious activity. They wrote the game, after all; they have the best understanding of how it works.
I don't think I've ever run into a cheater in the PvP MMO I play thanks to copious data collection on the part of the devs.
I know for a fact I have seen cheaters in games like PS2 and many other titles, I also know that hackusations get thrown around a lot and most of the time they are baseless. Lots of people can't handle losing and they make excuses to feel better about it and cheating is the easy go to.
Not saying it does not happen, I am saying it is nowhere near as bad as some people would want us to think.
You mean like this...
"Apex Legends has banned 500,000 accounts for cheating"
"PUBG bans pro players, 30,000 others for cheating"
"Ultima Online fires employee over cheating scandal"
And I'm sure we could show other games with grossly exaggerated numbers according to you? Am I right?
Yeah most likely, compared to the player base those are pretty small. Which means you aren't going to see a cheater in even on in a 100 rounds you play. Which proves my point nicely, there are not many cheaters, but damn there sure are a lot of whiners. Get gud son.
Edit the only article I see about Apex banning says 16K, so yeah over inflate much? or link your source. And get gud.
Judging by your ancient 1337 PvP elitist mentality, I can see where you would defend cheaters and claim they don't exist. Perhaps you need to get gud son and practice googling without using cheats for that as well.
You sound hurt, go read my edits. LOl are you just hovering there frothing at the mouth waiting to respond? I bet you are. LOL! Why so mad bro? Get gud!
So I am right huh? Thanks for your additional useless response. I know it's hard for people like you to admit when they are obviously incorrect. Probably why ignorance is bliss.
lol the numbers are correct, yes, but you are still wrong about the prevalence of cheaters in games. As far as useless goes you have said nothing thus far of any use whatsoever. Stop crying and get over it.
To put it in perspective, that is 1% of the player base. Would you like to tell me how that is rampant? So yeah, I guess it is hard when you are so obviously incorrect to admit when you wrong. Nice try though.
Post edited by Hatefull on
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Actually, the problem with PvP games in general, that includes FPS games as well, is the fact you can't play one without running into someone who's cheating in order to kill you.
Not really: devs collect metrics which are then sanity-checked and flagged for suspicious activity. They wrote the game, after all; they have the best understanding of how it works.
I don't think I've ever run into a cheater in the PvP MMO I play thanks to copious data collection on the part of the devs.
I know for a fact I have seen cheaters in games like PS2 and many other titles, I also know that hackusations get thrown around a lot and most of the time they are baseless. Lots of people can't handle losing and they make excuses to feel better about it and cheating is the easy go to.
Not saying it does not happen, I am saying it is nowhere near as bad as some people would want us to think.
You mean like this...
"Apex Legends has banned 500,000 accounts for cheating"
"PUBG bans pro players, 30,000 others for cheating"
"Ultima Online fires employee over cheating scandal"
And I'm sure we could show other games with grossly exaggerated numbers according to you? Am I right?
Yeah most likely, compared to the player base those are pretty small. Which means you aren't going to see a cheater in even on in a 100 rounds you play. Which proves my point nicely, there are not many cheaters, but damn there sure are a lot of whiners. Get gud son.
Edit the only article I see about Apex banning says 16K, so yeah over inflate much? or link your source. And get gud.
Judging by your ancient 1337 PvP elitist mentality, I can see where you would defend cheaters and claim they don't exist. Perhaps you need to get gud son and practice googling without using cheats for that as well.
You sound hurt, go read my edits. LOl are you just hovering there frothing at the mouth waiting to respond? I bet you are. LOL! Why so mad bro? Get gud!
So I am right huh? Thanks for your additional useless response. I know it's hard for people like you to admit when they are obviously incorrect. Probably why ignorance is bliss.
lol the numbers are correct, yes, but you are still wrong about the prevalence of cheaters in games. As far as useless goes you have said nothing thus far of any use whatsoever. Stop crying and get over it.
To put it in perspective, that is 1% of the player base. Would you like to tell me how that is rampant? So yeah, I guess it is hard when you are so obviously incorrect to admit when you wrong. Nice try though.
Welcome to my ignore list troll...
I am very happy to hear that. Troll.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
ikcin said: You make a game, implement PK there, and then you say: OK, now players must not PK. This is obviously stupid, or very incompetent.
You have the same problem as all above - you think about a certain game or games, you have played.
Stupid? Nah, it is just a reality.
While FFAPVP and full loot adds a spark to a game, they also introduce a list of detrimental elements to the game and since there are bills to pay, devs try to make the game appealing to more people but so narrow minded kind such as yours...
And still every game ends with pvp being the end game lol
Not every. But many. The so called end game comes when the vertical progression - so the solo RPG finishes. This again instanced design - the PvE ends and starts the PvP. Only EVE kind of integrates the PvP and PvE. L2 not so well, as there the PvE let to PvP and vice versa - before GoD. In fact I do not think there is an example for well made OW MMORPG. That does not mean it cannot be made.
Do you play eve? What you mean eve kind of integrates pvp and pve.
Don't eve have high sec where 70-85% of people play there? So most people can pve pretty safely.
Which I think is precisely the problem with many FFA full loot game. Forced pvp on a bunch of people who don't even want to pvp there(weather that is because there are 100% non pvp players, or they are still newbie and want to get stronger before they pvp).
And still every game ends with pvp being the end game lol
Not every. But many. The so called end game comes when the vertical progression - so the solo RPG finishes. This again instanced design - the PvE ends and starts the PvP. OnlyEVEkind of integrates the PvP and PvE. L2 not so well, as there the PvE let to PvP and vice versa - before GoD. In fact I do not think there is an example for well made OW MMORPG. That does not mean it cannot be made.
There is at least one other.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
And still every game ends with pvp being the end game lol
Not every. But many. The so called end game comes when the vertical progression - so the solo RPG finishes. This again instanced design - the PvE ends and starts the PvP. OnlyEVEkind of integrates the PvP and PvE. L2 not so well, as there the PvE let to PvP and vice versa - before GoD. In fact I do not think there is an example for well made OW MMORPG. That does not mean it cannot be made.
There is at least one other.
I think success of Eve further debunk his theory. You need different rule for aggressor and the peaceful. People can stay in high sec and be relatively safe.
That being said, people like him exist. So he can go null sec and go free for all no string attach. So maybe the best design is tiered map system. Where there is different rule set in different zone. Crowfall is doing something similar I think.
Obviously, if the developers allow PK but punish it... it means they don't want rampant PK. Maybe they want murder to function like a virtual society and having rules about murder and robbery outside of war pushes their ideals.
You do understand people have different opinions than you do correct?
You have still haven't said a valid reason why laws or supernatural karma that go with the lore of a gaming world are wrong.
Might makes right rules simply have not worked. Accountability and conciousness does not exist in a pure killer takes all in games.
Again, we are talking about games. If they want virtual society, then they do everything wrong, and shall learn from VR platforms like Second life.
The karma does not work. In any game. If it is too low - the players do not care. If it is too high, the open PvP vanishes.
It could be implemented as punishment in lore - so you take some evil quest to kill people and with the rewards you get also karma - the consequences. This is OW design. But to punish all the players who start PvP - then WTF you did not make instanced arena?
The way EVE does it, is better. And in fact it could be even better if somehow you make the players to keep the order - with some quests for white knights or something. In general I think the players should be involved in every activity in a MMO game.
A game is a game. A game focused on Kingdom building, war and other open world PVP may not want people to be playing Quake arena so crafters and other support character can play in relative peace. You know actually craft without being killed over and over by people they have no hope against.
Doesn't matter if karma works or not. It is the principle behind someone allowing PK but not wanting it to be the game defining activity. Just because you can't wrap your head around why a developer would allow but limit PKing doesn't mean valid reasons don't exist.
It could implemented just like you do in real life. You act like a criminal you get imprisoned. Doesn't need to go any further than that. You don't punish all PVP like war is fine with willing participants.
You punish the guy in a robe killing crafters and newbies outside of town. These guys who just keep coming back even after being killed. The ones antiPKs give up on because killing them has no effect. Game where there is no accountability. Lock them up guess what they can't kill for a good while.
Eve is a game where most play in a protected zone. There is nothing wrong with Eve but it's one way and not very inventive.
UO (Ultima Online) was one of the first MMOs I played. (Yes, Oldschool here). It had full loot. Losing your stuff was a way of life. You learned to build up multiple gear sets in your bank, or how not to take out your best stuff with you. Death kinda sucked but it didn't destroy your character like losing gear would in MMO's these days where it's all about the gear. And later in the game they added an insurance option so you could insure and not lose your gear. I don't remember if you get killed if someone gets that gold, but that would be a good option for a full pvp loot game. Have the victim choose to lose stuff or gold. But I agree with a few posts I've seen here that said the games where you can get back up and running and loot doesn't define your character seem to best deal with the full loot issue.
One of my favorite things about EQ was doing the crazy long quest lines to get rare gear. I spent god knows how long acquiring my Ivy Etched Armor. This is one of the things I miss the most when playing full loot games.
A couple of ideas that I think fair better than straight full loot would be to allow for either equipped items to not drop, leaving the loot to any resources the player may have accumulated or to have those epic type quests that produce equipment that cannot be looted.
One thing severely missing from full loot games for me has been long term goals. Being able to spend a long time acquiring no loot gear would be a good on in my book.
And still every game ends with pvp being the end game lol
Not every. But many. The so called end game comes when the vertical progression - so the solo RPG finishes. This again instanced design - the PvE ends and starts the PvP. Only EVE kind of integrates the PvP and PvE. L2 not so well, as there the PvE let to PvP and vice versa - before GoD. In fact I do not think there is an example for well made OW MMORPG. That does not mean it cannot be made.
Do you play eve? What you mean eve kind of integrates pvp and pve.
Don't eve have high sec where 70-85% of people play there? So most people can pve pretty safely.
Which I think is precisely the problem with many FFA full loot game. Forced pvp on a bunch of people who don't even want to pvp there(weather that is because there are 100% non pvp players, or they are still newbie and want to get stronger before they pvp).
EVE has good rules set for OW game. Well the safe assets are incredibly stupid move, but anyway. The reason is obvious - like so many other games they are trying to gather some imaginary casual players in combination with F2P. The problem is the real casual players play Fortnite and LoL.
But EVE also has serious problems. It is much closer to VR than a game. The UI is terrible. The gameplay too. It needs FPS and flying simulator, but safe assets are cheaper I guess. Most people do not play EVE because it is literally a bad game - great rules, bad interface. Most games are at the opposite side - candy eye with stupid rules. The UI in EVE is probably close to what you will see if you command a real spaceship But this simply is not fun to play.
Also, there is not non PvP players. At least, if you are a total noob, you go to show your superior gear. This is also competition, so PvP.
Newbie does not mean idiot or disabled person. So I do not see any problem with newbies. I was newbie in every game I have played, and in fact that is often the most fun part of the games.
Also I will point something obvious I think - you can play safe in the most MMORPGs now, but the genre is in crisis. Maybe there is not connection. But when most players play competitive MMOs instead MMORPGs, well probably a safe game is not fun for the most people.
The UI in Eve is fine, you're just slow.
Eve is not VR or you have NO IDEA WHAT VR MEANS. (I know it's the latter)
When people talk about PVP, they refer to combat, figthing each other, killing each other so dropping in with "There is not non pvp players because showing off superior gear is competition" is just strawman bullshit that means absolutely nothing.
One of my favorite things about EQ was doing the crazy long quest lines to get rare gear. I spent god knows how long acquiring my Ivy Etched Armor. This is one of the things I miss the most when playing full loot games.
A couple of ideas that I think fair better than straight full loot would be to allow for either equipped items to not drop, leaving the loot to any resources the player may have accumulated or to have those epic type quests that produce equipment that cannot be looted.
One thing severely missing from full loot games for me has been long term goals. Being able to spend a long time acquiring no loot gear would be a good on in my book.
I think that's why most important items get soul bound. If not people won't wear their best gear for fear of losing it.
UO (Ultima Online) was one of the first MMOs I played. (Yes, Oldschool here). It had full loot. Losing your stuff was a way of life. You learned to build up multiple gear sets in your bank, or how not to take out your best stuff with you. Death kinda sucked but it didn't destroy your character like losing gear would in MMO's these days where it's all about the gear. And later in the game they added an insurance option so you could insure and not lose your gear. I don't remember if you get killed if someone gets that gold, but that would be a good option for a full pvp loot game. Have the victim choose to lose stuff or gold. But I agree with a few posts I've seen here that said the games where you can get back up and running and loot doesn't define your character seem to best deal with the full loot issue.
Insurance was a magical protection against looting. So you could save your best gear by paying for the protection up front. The looter got nothing in exchange, the items were magically protected to stay with the ghost and after resurrection. And yes, this is a good way to go. It makes sense in a magical realm.
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For wow at least that is not true. From my limited time playing wow in vanilla, since the game is faction base, and people spend much of their time in their faction zone, OWPvP don't happen as much.
I fail to see how playing more equates to cheating, and as I stated several pages ago I play in a game where there are no huge, level-based power gaps; it's a game that depends very much on player skill, and there is a high ceiling.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Usually, the PVP server in PVE games go live they are flooded. The problem is there usually isn't a point and you are playing Quake arena. You still need levels and have power gaps.
It is hard to tell how successful a PVP game would be since they all pretty much have been low budget. To me even in PVP needs goals beyond just kill each other.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
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All your base are belong to us?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What I am saying is: they had some great ideas, what if the only way to get Legendary crafting materials was to hold a point so your harvesters (speaking faction here) could get said material to craft better gear? Or as AoC tried, holding the resource map so you could build your Keep. You were constantly in danger (or would have been if AoC had a healthy player base) of being jumped while gathering and building your base was a weeks-long process.
In my opinion, all three games (I realize other games had similar ideas but for brevities sake) had great ideas that were poorly timed or implemented and would have seen a lot better success if they were not an afterthought, which agrees with your assertion that tacked on PvP is rarely a good thing.
I think there is an answer out there that will appeal to the majority of the players base as it pertains to PvP in MMOs, RPGs or otherwise, I just think no one has got it to work yet.
There is a reason COD launches a new iteration on almost a yearly basis, shooting each other is only fun for a finite amount of time, there has to be a hook and an uneven number of factions in order to make a start. IMO of course.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Edit: the only article I see about Apex banning says 16K, so yeah over inflate much? or link your source. And get gud.
2nd EDIT: I think I found your reference, about the 500K (it's actually 499,937) on their reddit page. I also saw a heap of people saying they got falsely accused and banned, so I am betting that number is far lower as whiners tend to /report every time they get killed. Which is funny to me. I would like to see how many of those 499,937 accounts get reinstated.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
To put it in perspective, that is 1% of the player base. Would you like to tell me how that is rampant? So yeah, I guess it is hard when you are so obviously incorrect to admit when you wrong. Nice try though.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
While FFAPVP and full loot adds a spark to a game, they also introduce a list of detrimental elements to the game and since there are bills to pay, devs try to make the game appealing to more people but so narrow minded kind such as yours...
Don't eve have high sec where 70-85% of people play there? So most people can pve pretty safely.
Which I think is precisely the problem with many FFA full loot game. Forced pvp on a bunch of people who don't even want to pvp there(weather that is because there are 100% non pvp players, or they are still newbie and want to get stronger before they pvp).
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
That being said, people like him exist. So he can go null sec and go free for all no string attach. So maybe the best design is tiered map system. Where there is different rule set in different zone. Crowfall is doing something similar I think.
Doesn't matter if karma works or not. It is the principle behind someone allowing PK but not wanting it to be the game defining activity. Just because you can't wrap your head around why a developer would allow but limit PKing doesn't mean valid reasons don't exist.
It could implemented just like you do in real life. You act like a criminal you get imprisoned. Doesn't need to go any further than that. You don't punish all PVP like war is fine with willing participants.
You punish the guy in a robe killing crafters and newbies outside of town. These guys who just keep coming back even after being killed. The ones antiPKs give up on because killing them has no effect. Game where there is no accountability. Lock them up guess what they can't kill for a good while.
Eve is a game where most play in a protected zone. There is nothing wrong with Eve but it's one way and not very inventive.
A couple of ideas that I think fair better than straight full loot would be to allow for either equipped items to not drop, leaving the loot to any resources the player may have accumulated or to have those epic type quests that produce equipment that cannot be looted.
One thing severely missing from full loot games for me has been long term goals. Being able to spend a long time acquiring no loot gear would be a good on in my book.
Eve is not VR or you have NO IDEA WHAT VR MEANS. (I know it's the latter)
When people talk about PVP, they refer to combat, figthing each other, killing each other so dropping in with "There is not non pvp players because showing off superior gear is competition" is just strawman bullshit that means absolutely nothing.
TLDR: You dumb.
And yes, this is a good way to go. It makes sense in a magical realm.
Once upon a time....