Asherons Call (Darktide) had pvp done right. full loot and skill based. If an indi dev. made a game that implemented as much freedom as a game made 20 years ago im sure it would be a hit. The problem with most mmorpgs in my opinion are these dam linear quest. WOW IMO dumb downed the genre and killed the figure the shiat out yourself feel of a game.
In AC1 you could use easy to get items, like massive mana charges, to cover all your valuables and make them zero chance to drop on death.
And even then, the game would have failed without the PvE servers. DT at its peak population was less than 8% of the total player base, any many played DT occasionally, having their mains on a PvE server.
But you're right, the way Turbine did it was right. Give the minority a PvP server, and let the majority enjoy the game away from those who roleplay psychos on the PvP server. That's how UO was also forced to do it finally. That's how it should be done if you want your game to succeed.
I take it you didnt play darktide much. keep loosing high value stones and it will hurt your pocket. The fact that all servers in ac eventually added pvp content proves that its a great feature for the genre. PVE mmorpgs are pretty much dead on release IMO. The gaming world has moved on to a more competitive player base. That's why mobile is making so much money on shitty games. People want to win and progress at a competitive level. But I do agree that developers should have extreme pvp and casual pvp servers.
Just my opinion. Probably biased as well =P
It's nice when you stick to facts. PvP content in AC1 was added just like PvP content exists in WoW or other games. It was never forced, and never even close to be mandatory to get the best equipment and get to the top level of power of the game, to the opposite actually. And if PvE MMORPGs are pretty much "dead on release", how comes WoW still exists (and still with a subscription) ? How comes games like GW2 and ESO thrive ? I call bullshit on that.
???? are you living under a rock? facts are non pvp mmorpg games are dead on release. gw 2 has pvp, wow has pvp and even eso has limited pvp.... PVE only mmorpgs are a dying breed. Gamers taste have changed.
I want full loot for the sake of realism vs. artificial barriers. But I also want a Justice System that punishes repeated "crime" and a wide scope of Factions.
I think there's a huge market-in-waiting for a game that doesn't have rampant PKing, but does have freedom and the ability to play it out without artificial barriers.
People'll just whine if they are punished for pking and looting people.
Some would. Tough shjt. If you're going to lose players, lose the ones that will keep that downward spiral going. And all games lose players. The question is how many.
It's just my experience playing this type of game. Anytime the developer put punishment for gankers, the forum is full of whining on the forum.
That being said, I heard numerous times GW2 is too easy on this forum. But all I hear is QQing on GW2 forum that the expansion is too hard.
But what kind of punishment you have in mind for gankers in FFA full loot game?
Not for one minute do I believe you played “this type” of game that was made in the last 15 years. Your assumption on the topic are way off.
Punishment - jail, prison, death (terrible debuff that last for days). All I enforced by player bounty hunters
Wushu by far has the best justice system I believe the genre has seen. Complete with jail breaks bribery beheadings etc. Their system allowed culture to be formed. In this FFA world we all knew right from wrong.
What some here are missing is pvp without risk and reward is meaningless. Why kill a lowbie and risk hours in jail. Now what if your at war with the faction, or guild the lowbie is in? What if he’s transporting goods? Is the risk worth the reward?
I'm playing one now. Legend of Aria. Developer made gankers life more inconvenient by making their travel longer, and they complained. People also discussed stat loss on forum, and gankers complain.
Ikcn are complaining why gankers death penalty should be harsher. People complain. There are people complaining about stat loss in UO now(still), and want it removed.
Granted there are also people supporting tougher punishment for wolf.
But you are right. I didn't play much FFA full loot MMO. I play mostly themepark before, and just jumped ship.
Asherons Call (Darktide) had pvp done right. full loot and skill based. If an indi dev. made a game that implemented as much freedom as a game made 20 years ago im sure it would be a hit. The problem with most mmorpgs in my opinion are these dam linear quest. WOW IMO dumb downed the genre and killed the figure the shiat out yourself feel of a game.
In AC1 you could use easy to get items, like massive mana charges, to cover all your valuables and make them zero chance to drop on death.
And even then, the game would have failed without the PvE servers. DT at its peak population was less than 8% of the total player base, any many played DT occasionally, having their mains on a PvE server.
But you're right, the way Turbine did it was right. Give the minority a PvP server, and let the majority enjoy the game away from those who roleplay psychos on the PvP server. That's how UO was also forced to do it finally. That's how it should be done if you want your game to succeed.
I take it you didnt play darktide much. keep loosing high value stones and it will hurt your pocket. The fact that all servers in ac eventually added pvp content proves that its a great feature for the genre. PVE mmorpgs are pretty much dead on release IMO. The gaming world has moved on to a more competitive player base. That's why mobile is making so much money on shitty games. People want to win and progress at a competitive level. But I do agree that developers should have extreme pvp and casual pvp servers.
Just my opinion. Probably biased as well =P
It's nice when you stick to facts. PvP content in AC1 was added just like PvP content exists in WoW or other games. It was never forced, and never even close to be mandatory to get the best equipment and get to the top level of power of the game, to the opposite actually. And if PvE MMORPGs are pretty much "dead on release", how comes WoW still exists (and still with a subscription) ? How comes games like GW2 and ESO thrive ? I call bullshit on that.
???? are you living under a rock? facts are non pvp mmorpg games are dead on release. gw 2 has pvp, wow has pvp and even eso has limited pvp.... PVE only mmorpgs are a dying breed. Gamers taste have changed.
Must be some really niche mmo. Because most major MMO have some form of pvp. At least in the form of arena or battleground.
Asherons Call (Darktide) had pvp done right. full loot and skill based. If an indi dev. made a game that implemented as much freedom as a game made 20 years ago im sure it would be a hit. The problem with most mmorpgs in my opinion are these dam linear quest. WOW IMO dumb downed the genre and killed the figure the shiat out yourself feel of a game.
In AC1 you could use easy to get items, like massive mana charges, to cover all your valuables and make them zero chance to drop on death.
And even then, the game would have failed without the PvE servers. DT at its peak population was less than 8% of the total player base, any many played DT occasionally, having their mains on a PvE server.
But you're right, the way Turbine did it was right. Give the minority a PvP server, and let the majority enjoy the game away from those who roleplay psychos on the PvP server. That's how UO was also forced to do it finally. That's how it should be done if you want your game to succeed.
I take it you didnt play darktide much. keep loosing high value stones and it will hurt your pocket. The fact that all servers in ac eventually added pvp content proves that its a great feature for the genre. PVE mmorpgs are pretty much dead on release IMO. The gaming world has moved on to a more competitive player base. That's why mobile is making so much money on shitty games. People want to win and progress at a competitive level. But I do agree that developers should have extreme pvp and casual pvp servers.
Just my opinion. Probably biased as well =P
It's nice when you stick to facts. PvP content in AC1 was added just like PvP content exists in WoW or other games. It was never forced, and never even close to be mandatory to get the best equipment and get to the top level of power of the game, to the opposite actually. And if PvE MMORPGs are pretty much "dead on release", how comes WoW still exists (and still with a subscription) ? How comes games like GW2 and ESO thrive ? I call bullshit on that.
ESO because of pvp is at its core. That’s what sets ESO apart for the other mmorpgs it has great pvp.
GW2 is on life support because they did everything possible to make pvp meaningless.
In this era pve as a whole is not sustainable. Tooo many videos too many guilds. No mystery left. No surprise. Millions wasted on a couple months of “content”.
Asherons Call (Darktide) had pvp done right. full loot and skill based. If an indi dev. made a game that implemented as much freedom as a game made 20 years ago im sure it would be a hit. The problem with most mmorpgs in my opinion are these dam linear quest. WOW IMO dumb downed the genre and killed the figure the shiat out yourself feel of a game.
In AC1 you could use easy to get items, like massive mana charges, to cover all your valuables and make them zero chance to drop on death.
And even then, the game would have failed without the PvE servers. DT at its peak population was less than 8% of the total player base, any many played DT occasionally, having their mains on a PvE server.
But you're right, the way Turbine did it was right. Give the minority a PvP server, and let the majority enjoy the game away from those who roleplay psychos on the PvP server. That's how UO was also forced to do it finally. That's how it should be done if you want your game to succeed.
I take it you didnt play darktide much. keep loosing high value stones and it will hurt your pocket. The fact that all servers in ac eventually added pvp content proves that its a great feature for the genre. PVE mmorpgs are pretty much dead on release IMO. The gaming world has moved on to a more competitive player base. That's why mobile is making so much money on shitty games. People want to win and progress at a competitive level. But I do agree that developers should have extreme pvp and casual pvp servers.
Just my opinion. Probably biased as well =P
It's nice when you stick to facts. PvP content in AC1 was added just like PvP content exists in WoW or other games. It was never forced, and never even close to be mandatory to get the best equipment and get to the top level of power of the game, to the opposite actually. And if PvE MMORPGs are pretty much "dead on release", how comes WoW still exists (and still with a subscription) ? How comes games like GW2 and ESO thrive ? I call bullshit on that.
???? are you living under a rock? facts are non pvp mmorpg games are dead on release. gw 2 has pvp, wow has pvp and even eso has limited pvp.... PVE only mmorpgs are a dying breed. Gamers taste have changed.
Quite a few on this site haven’t adjusted well... sad yes I know.
Asherons Call (Darktide) had pvp done right. full loot and skill based. If an indi dev. made a game that implemented as much freedom as a game made 20 years ago im sure it would be a hit. The problem with most mmorpgs in my opinion are these dam linear quest. WOW IMO dumb downed the genre and killed the figure the shiat out yourself feel of a game.
In AC1 you could use easy to get items, like massive mana charges, to cover all your valuables and make them zero chance to drop on death.
And even then, the game would have failed without the PvE servers. DT at its peak population was less than 8% of the total player base, any many played DT occasionally, having their mains on a PvE server.
But you're right, the way Turbine did it was right. Give the minority a PvP server, and let the majority enjoy the game away from those who roleplay psychos on the PvP server. That's how UO was also forced to do it finally. That's how it should be done if you want your game to succeed.
I take it you didnt play darktide much. keep loosing high value stones and it will hurt your pocket. The fact that all servers in ac eventually added pvp content proves that its a great feature for the genre. PVE mmorpgs are pretty much dead on release IMO. The gaming world has moved on to a more competitive player base. That's why mobile is making so much money on shitty games. People want to win and progress at a competitive level. But I do agree that developers should have extreme pvp and casual pvp servers.
Just my opinion. Probably biased as well =P
It's nice when you stick to facts. PvP content in AC1 was added just like PvP content exists in WoW or other games. It was never forced, and never even close to be mandatory to get the best equipment and get to the top level of power of the game, to the opposite actually. And if PvE MMORPGs are pretty much "dead on release", how comes WoW still exists (and still with a subscription) ? How comes games like GW2 and ESO thrive ? I call bullshit on that.
???? are you living under a rock? facts are non pvp mmorpg games are dead on release. gw 2 has pvp, wow has pvp and even eso has limited pvp.... PVE only mmorpgs are a dying breed. Gamers taste have changed.
I think he is talking about forced PvP/non consesual/full loot etc etc.
Asherons Call (Darktide) had pvp done right. full loot and skill based. If an indi dev. made a game that implemented as much freedom as a game made 20 years ago im sure it would be a hit. The problem with most mmorpgs in my opinion are these dam linear quest. WOW IMO dumb downed the genre and killed the figure the shiat out yourself feel of a game.
In AC1 you could use easy to get items, like massive mana charges, to cover all your valuables and make them zero chance to drop on death.
And even then, the game would have failed without the PvE servers. DT at its peak population was less than 8% of the total player base, any many played DT occasionally, having their mains on a PvE server.
But you're right, the way Turbine did it was right. Give the minority a PvP server, and let the majority enjoy the game away from those who roleplay psychos on the PvP server. That's how UO was also forced to do it finally. That's how it should be done if you want your game to succeed.
I take it you didnt play darktide much. keep loosing high value stones and it will hurt your pocket. The fact that all servers in ac eventually added pvp content proves that its a great feature for the genre. PVE mmorpgs are pretty much dead on release IMO. The gaming world has moved on to a more competitive player base. That's why mobile is making so much money on shitty games. People want to win and progress at a competitive level. But I do agree that developers should have extreme pvp and casual pvp servers.
Just my opinion. Probably biased as well =P
It's nice when you stick to facts. PvP content in AC1 was added just like PvP content exists in WoW or other games. It was never forced, and never even close to be mandatory to get the best equipment and get to the top level of power of the game, to the opposite actually. And if PvE MMORPGs are pretty much "dead on release", how comes WoW still exists (and still with a subscription) ? How comes games like GW2 and ESO thrive ? I call bullshit on that.
???? are you living under a rock? facts are non pvp mmorpg games are dead on release. gw 2 has pvp, wow has pvp and even eso has limited pvp.... PVE only mmorpgs are a dying breed. Gamers taste have changed.
Quite a few on this site haven’t adjusted well... sad yes I know.
The reason ESO works is because there is a choice for people to PvP or not PvP. This seems to escape your notice. I can understand that if you play PvP and enjoy it in a game you might be forgiven for thinking that is the be it and end all of the content. It isn't the reason ESO works and is successful, it is because players can engage in PvE unmolested by gankers and can choose to PvP when they want to. This thread isn't about those type of games however but as usual you are trying to muscle in your point of view and make it sound like it's all about the PvP. The fact is a game has to have both PvP and PvE and there has to be choice in it's participation for it to succeed as an MMORPG as evidenced by ESO and GW2. I am stressing the MMORPG part so please leave your arguments about MOBAs and survival games at the door.
Asherons Call (Darktide) had pvp done right. full loot and skill based. If an indi dev. made a game that implemented as much freedom as a game made 20 years ago im sure it would be a hit. The problem with most mmorpgs in my opinion are these dam linear quest. WOW IMO dumb downed the genre and killed the figure the shiat out yourself feel of a game.
In AC1 you could use easy to get items, like massive mana charges, to cover all your valuables and make them zero chance to drop on death.
And even then, the game would have failed without the PvE servers. DT at its peak population was less than 8% of the total player base, any many played DT occasionally, having their mains on a PvE server.
But you're right, the way Turbine did it was right. Give the minority a PvP server, and let the majority enjoy the game away from those who roleplay psychos on the PvP server. That's how UO was also forced to do it finally. That's how it should be done if you want your game to succeed.
I take it you didnt play darktide much. keep loosing high value stones and it will hurt your pocket. The fact that all servers in ac eventually added pvp content proves that its a great feature for the genre. PVE mmorpgs are pretty much dead on release IMO. The gaming world has moved on to a more competitive player base. That's why mobile is making so much money on shitty games. People want to win and progress at a competitive level. But I do agree that developers should have extreme pvp and casual pvp servers.
Just my opinion. Probably biased as well =P
It's nice when you stick to facts. PvP content in AC1 was added just like PvP content exists in WoW or other games. It was never forced, and never even close to be mandatory to get the best equipment and get to the top level of power of the game, to the opposite actually. And if PvE MMORPGs are pretty much "dead on release", how comes WoW still exists (and still with a subscription) ? How comes games like GW2 and ESO thrive ? I call bullshit on that.
ESO because of pvp is at its core. That’s what sets ESO apart for the other mmorpgs it has great pvp.
GW2 is on life support because they did everything possible to make pvp meaningless.
In this era pve as a whole is not sustainable. Tooo many videos too many guilds. No mystery left. No surprise. Millions wasted on a couple months of “content”.
In spite of your attempt to slight GW2 at some point it was very successful or have you forgotten the dreadful start ESO had when it came out. Games evolve and some decline.
Darkfall is in my opinion the best online gaming experience I've ever had. So what failed? No marketing, a terrible company that didn't communicate with their community, lack of sandbox elements.
What worked in Darkfall? The combat and full loot PvP. That was so intense that it left us shaking due to all the adrenaline. Name one game that provides that experience.
Lineage 2 did for me, so did SWG, Tribes when I was competing, and about any, in my personal opinion, good game does that for me. I get, understand and respect that others may not have the same experiences or reactions to said experiences.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Ok, so you want to compare games like CS, COD, etc to MMORPGs? Great that makes zero sense. In a pvp game where the ONLY thing to do is PvP such as most shooters, all MOBA's (that I am aware of) to an MMORPG where you can hunt PvE, craft, gather and you think that the PvP in an MMORPG, a PKer should not be punished? Then where is the risk vs reward that you claim you want? If I can run around PKing crafters all day with no real chance of being punished there is no risk whatsoever, only reward, which btw will become boring as all hell in very short order.
I think you are relatively stupid. Sorry for that, it is not insult, just opinion. Some people are relatively smart, and vice versa. In the most MMOs, the so called craftsmen are just common players, as all craft. So what is that specific game you point? OK, let say there the craftsmen are some specific weaker class. As the risk for them will be obviously higher there are various ways to reduce it. From instanced rule - the craftsmen cannot PvP and been PKed, to OW rules - the craftsmen could hire other players as guards. Then the reward for such a group will be higher. As for the punishment - instead to increase the risk, it is possible to decrease the reward. So, in a full loot game, the player who PK will not get any loot. There are various ways to fix a problem. And to claim only one way is possible is just stupid.
I don't take it as an insult coming from you. You prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are far less intelligent than most. Only someone as ignorant as you could have the arrogance to call someone else stupid, when essentially myself and several others have been pointing out how dumb you really are, in particular when it comes to games.
Bottom line: you bring nothing to the site, the conversation, or the world as far as I can see. This is disregarding your terrible English of course.
Post edited by Hatefull on
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
When a game releases PVP and PVE servers, the population on the PVE servers dwarf the PVP servers 100 to 1.
When a game releases full loot open world non consensual PVP, you get even a smaller number of people interested in it than the PVP server, because not all PVP players like full loot.
So what you end up with is a choice when making a game. You either cater to your niche and live with the population issues or you develop the game to a broader audience. How broad is up to the developer of course, but that's just part of the decision process.
In the case for modern games that "include PVP" as mentioned above, they are not popular because of the PVP. They simply wanted to also lure in that crowd ALONG WITH the pve players. These games are NOT predominantly PVP by any stretch. They are by and large PVE games with PVP activities within them. All of the PVP is 100% avoidable and a vast majority of players will 100% avoid it. If PVP was the reason they were popular they would be PVP games with a bit of PVE. That is clearly not the case.
When a game releases PVP and PVE servers, the population on the PVE servers dwarf the PVP servers 100 to 1.
When a game releases full loot open world non consensual PVP, you get even a smaller number of people interested in it than the PVP server, because not all PVP players like full loot.
It is actually amazing that you do not understand, but WoW, ESO, even UO, cannot be used as a prove that OW PvP does not work, or that full loot PvP does not work.
Also, the rational players - I know most of you here, are not such, as you think about the games as VR and RP, instead as games, but the majority of the players simply choose the lower risk. Any PvE server gives the same rewards with lower risk, and it is the obvious rational choice.
And about the full loot - EVE works, and I do not think the major problem of games like Darkfall, Life is Feudal, Albion, Mortal and etc. is the full loot.
You cannot take a separate case, and to make it general example. If one mexican rapes, that does not make all mexican rapist, as if one white man kills, that does not make all white men killers. This is obviously wrong, but you do it here, pointing one game or another.
It’s amazing how you can think my comment had anything to do with you. You are blind. Just move along.
The amount of people playing on wow pvp and wow pve server are roughly the same. (before they changed all the server to a flag pvp system)
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
When a game releases PVP and PVE servers, the population on the PVE servers dwarf the PVP servers 100 to 1.
When a game releases full loot open world non consensual PVP, you get even a smaller number of people interested in it than the PVP server, because not all PVP players like full loot.
It is actually amazing that you do not understand, but WoW, ESO, even UO, cannot be used as a prove that OW PvP does not work, or that full loot PvP does not work.
Also, the rational players - I know most of you here, are not such, as you think about the games as VR and RP, instead as games, but the majority of the players simply choose the lower risk. Any PvE server gives the same rewards with lower risk, and it is the obvious rational choice.
And about the full loot - EVE works, and I do not think the major problem of games like Darkfall, Life is Feudal, Albion, Mortal and etc. is the full loot.
You cannot take a separate case, and to make it general example. If one mexican rapes, that does not make all mexican rapist, as if one white man kills, that does not make all white men killers. This is obviously wrong, but you do it here, pointing one game or another.
Also you are attempting to use Eve to support your arguments when it doesn’t fit your rules. It has safe space, you keep saying how you can’t have artificial rules in place to create safe areas when EVE HAS SAFE SPACE guarded by game rules. You are so damn mental it’s painful.
When a game releases PVP and PVE servers, the population on the PVE servers dwarf the PVP servers 100 to 1.
When a game releases full loot open world non consensual PVP, you get even a smaller number of people interested in it than the PVP server, because not all PVP players like full loot.
It is actually amazing that you do not understand, but WoW, ESO, even UO, cannot be used as a prove that OW PvP does not work, or that full loot PvP does not work.
Also, the rational players - I know most of you here, are not such, as you think about the games as VR and RP, instead as games, but the majority of the players simply choose the lower risk. Any PvE server gives the same rewards with lower risk, and it is the obvious rational choice.
And about the full loot - EVE works, and I do not think the major problem of games like Darkfall, Life is Feudal, Albion, Mortal and etc. is the full loot.
You cannot take a separate case, and to make it general example. If one mexican rapes, that does not make all mexican rapist, as if one white man kills, that does not make all white men killers. This is obviously wrong, but you do it here, pointing one game or another.
Also you are attempting to use Eve to support your arguments when it doesn’t fit your rules. It has safe space, you keep saying how you can’t have artificial rules in place to create safe areas when EVE HAS SAFE SPACE guarded by game rules. You are so damn mental it’s painful.
Not only does EVE have "safer" space (as one can still be killed there, just not easily or frequently) but it's always been true the majority by far of the games population resides in it at any given moment .
It's often been speculated EVE might have been even more successful had CCP gone ahead and made High Sec 100% safe but the devs stubbornly stuck to their vision, for better or worse.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When a game releases PVP and PVE servers, the population on the PVE servers dwarf the PVP servers 100 to 1.
When a game releases full loot open world non consensual PVP, you get even a smaller number of people interested in it than the PVP server, because not all PVP players like full loot.
It is actually amazing that you do not understand, but WoW, ESO, even UO, cannot be used as a prove that OW PvP does not work, or that full loot PvP does not work.
Also, the rational players - I know most of you here, are not such, as you think about the games as VR and RP, instead as games, but the majority of the players simply choose the lower risk. Any PvE server gives the same rewards with lower risk, and it is the obvious rational choice.
And about the full loot - EVE works, and I do not think the major problem of games like Darkfall, Life is Feudal, Albion, Mortal and etc. is the full loot.
You cannot take a separate case, and to make it general example. If one mexican rapes, that does not make all mexican rapist, as if one white man kills, that does not make all white men killers. This is obviously wrong, but you do it here, pointing one game or another.
Also you are attempting to use Eve to support your arguments when it doesn’t fit your rules. It has safe space, you keep saying how you can’t have artificial rules in place to create safe areas when EVE HAS SAFE SPACE guarded by game rules. You are so damn mental it’s painful.
Not only does EVE have "safer" space (as one can still be killed there, just not easily or frequently) but it's always been true the majority by far of the games population resides in it at any given moment .
It's often been speculated EVE might have been even more successful had CCP gone ahead and made High Sec 100% safe but the devs stubbornly stuck to their vision, for better or worse.
And you can conduct a good portion of the game in complete safety inside a station.
There's a small niche of people who only play this type of game and a few of them with deep, deep pockets.
The one I play isn't pay-to-win. If it were, I doubt I would have stuck around.
What exactly are you playing? There is only a few around.
Ironically I think most of them are subscription or premium base.
Did you even read this 24 page thread? ;-)
I'll give you a hint: it's an old one, with a retail launch a couple weeks ahead of WoW in November.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
When a game releases PVP and PVE servers, the population on the PVE servers dwarf the PVP servers 100 to 1.
When a game releases full loot open world non consensual PVP, you get even a smaller number of people interested in it than the PVP server, because not all PVP players like full loot.
You cannot take a separate case, and to make it general example. If one mexican rapes, that does not make all mexican rapist, as if one white man kills, that does not make all white men killers. This is obviously wrong, but you do it here, pointing one game or another.
If one Mexican rape , but don't get punished , instead he get reward for wrong done then you know that's not a place to live .
When a game releases PVP and PVE servers, the population on the PVE servers dwarf the PVP servers 100 to 1.
When a game releases full loot open world non consensual PVP, you get even a smaller number of people interested in it than the PVP server, because not all PVP players like full loot.
It is actually amazing that you do not understand, but WoW, ESO, even UO, cannot be used as a prove that OW PvP does not work, or that full loot PvP does not work.
Also, the rational players - I know most of you here, are not such, as you think about the games as VR and RP, instead as games, but the majority of the players simply choose the lower risk. Any PvE server gives the same rewards with lower risk, and it is the obvious rational choice.
And about the full loot - EVE works, and I do not think the major problem of games like Darkfall, Life is Feudal, Albion, Mortal and etc. is the full loot.
You cannot take a separate case, and to make it general example. If one mexican rapes, that does not make all mexican rapist, as if one white man kills, that does not make all white men killers. This is obviously wrong, but you do it here, pointing one game or another.
It’s amazing how you can think my comment had anything to do with you. You are blind. Just move along.
The dude is a complete moron. He puts words in other peoples mouths, he has no idea how to establish a point then defend it, he changes his point and says everyone else is dumb, in my opinion, he is just a troll. Done with it.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
The amount of people playing on wow pvp and wow pve server are roughly the same. (before they changed all the server to a flag pvp system)
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
The amount of people playing on wow pvp and wow pve server are roughly the same. (before they changed all the server to a flag pvp system)
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
Because WoW had safe places and you could easily avoid OWPVP is you wanted to. It was nowhere near as rough as other OWPVP games.
Eve as others have pointed out has the majority of the players in "safer" space so it is logical to assume they aren't into PvP as much.
Not sure about the numbers, and honestly, too lazy to look it up. Not sure what point you are making with that.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Actually, the problem with PvP games in general, that includes FPS games as well, is the fact you can't play one without running into someone who's cheating in order to kill you.
Not really: devs collect metrics which are then sanity-checked and flagged for suspicious activity. They wrote the game, after all; they have the best understanding of how it works.
I don't think I've ever run into a cheater in the PvP MMO I play thanks to copious data collection on the part of the devs.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Actually, the problem with PvP games in general, that includes FPS games as well, is the fact you can't play one without running into someone who's cheating in order to kill you.
Not really: devs collect metrics which are then sanity-checked and flagged for suspicious activity. They wrote the game, after all; they have the best understanding of how it works.
I don't think I've ever run into a cheater in the PvP MMO I play thanks to copious data collection on the part of the devs.
I know for a fact I have seen cheaters in games like PS2 and many other titles, I also know that hackusations get thrown around a lot and most of the time they are baseless. Lots of people can't handle losing and they make excuses to feel better about it and cheating is the easy go to.
Not saying it does not happen, I am saying it is nowhere near as bad as some people would want us to think.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Actually, the problem with PvP games in general, that includes FPS games as well, is the fact you can't play one without running into someone who's cheating in order to kill you.
Not really: devs collect metrics which are then sanity-checked and flagged for suspicious activity. They wrote the game, after all; they have the best understanding of how it works.
I don't think I've ever run into a cheater in the PvP MMO I play thanks to copious data collection on the part of the devs.
That is simply not true. Every game follows some marketing model. And it is not based on current metrics. If you were right all the games would be very successful.
Also people cheat in every competitive game - it is not necessary using of hacks or bots, they pay more or play more, which is also cheating.
And again I will point the problem with the solo PvE and vertical progression. Something most of people here completely ignore.
If you play football, chess, or sprint - more time spent does not lead automatically to success. It is a question of strategy, talent, abilities. In many MMOs more time is equal to win, because of the power gaps, and that is simply not fair.
You are 100% wrong. Why you no understand? Me think you stupid, not insult just observation.
When a game releases PVP and PVE servers, the population on the PVE servers dwarf the PVP servers 100 to 1.
When a game releases full loot open world non consensual PVP, you get even a smaller number of people interested in it than the PVP server, because not all PVP players like full loot.
You cannot take a separate case, and to make it general example. If one mexican rapes, that does not make all mexican rapist, as if one white man kills, that does not make all white men killers. This is obviously wrong, but you do it here, pointing one game or another.
If one Mexican rape , but don't get punished , instead he get reward for wrong done then you know that's not a place to live .
Good, but the rape is illegal. The PK is not. In some societies the rape was part of the culture, there you would not be punished. So if the dev allows the PK, why it shall be punished?
This is the problem with RL analogies, from issue with the rules we go to moral issue. I made wrong analogy. OK, then If one US team wins, that does not mean all the people in US are winners.
Obviously, if the developers allow PK but punish it... it means they don't want rampant PK. Maybe they want murder to function like a virtual society and having rules about murder and robbery outside of war pushes their ideals.
You do understand people have different opinions than you do correct?
You have still haven't said a valid reason why laws or supernatural karma that go with the lore of a gaming world are wrong.
Might makes right rules simply have not worked. Accountability and conciousness does not exist in a pure killer takes all in games.
When a game releases PVP and PVE servers, the population on the PVE servers dwarf the PVP servers 100 to 1.
When a game releases full loot open world non consensual PVP, you get even a smaller number of people interested in it than the PVP server, because not all PVP players like full loot.
You cannot take a separate case, and to make it general example. If one mexican rapes, that does not make all mexican rapist, as if one white man kills, that does not make all white men killers. This is obviously wrong, but you do it here, pointing one game or another.
If one Mexican rape , but don't get punished , instead he get reward for wrong done then you know that's not a place to live .
Good, but the rape is illegal. The PK is not. In some societies the rape was part of the culture, there you would not be punished. So if the dev allows the PK, why it shall be punished?
This is the problem with RL analogies, from issue with the rules we go to moral issue. I made wrong analogy. OK, then If one US team wins, that does not mean all the people in US are winners.
Obviously, if the developers allow PK but punish it... it means they don't want rampant PK. Maybe they want murder to function like a virtual society and having rules about murder and robbery outside of war pushes their ideals.
You do understand people have different opinions than you do correct?
You have still haven't said a valid reason why laws or supernatural karma that go with the lore of a gaming world are wrong.
Might makes right rules simply have not worked. Accountability and conciousness does not exist in a pure killer takes all in games.
Well put and I applaud your patience. If you get through to this guy I am putting you in for digital sainthood.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Comments
recognition.
Ikcn are complaining why gankers death penalty should be harsher. People complain. There are people complaining about stat loss in UO now(still), and want it removed.
Granted there are also people supporting tougher punishment for wolf.
But you are right. I didn't play much FFA full loot MMO. I play mostly themepark before, and just jumped ship.
GW2 is on life support because they did everything possible to make pvp meaningless.
In this era pve as a whole is not sustainable. Tooo many videos too many guilds. No mystery left. No surprise. Millions wasted on a couple months of “content”.
Quite a few on this site haven’t adjusted well... sad yes I know.
In spite of your attempt to slight GW2 at some point it was very successful or have you forgotten the dreadful start ESO had when it came out. Games evolve and some decline.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Bottom line: you bring nothing to the site, the conversation, or the world as far as I can see. This is disregarding your terrible English of course.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I also hear people saying most of the people playing Eve or UO are pve players. Not sure how accurate that is.
People on the web says games like mortal online, darkfall, UO lingers around 3000 daily players. That was a few years ago, probably even less now. Albion line also lingers around 3000-5000 daily.
Also you are attempting to use Eve to support your arguments when it doesn’t fit your rules. It has safe space, you keep saying how you can’t have artificial rules in place to create safe areas when EVE HAS SAFE SPACE guarded by game rules. You are so damn mental it’s painful.
It's often been speculated EVE might have been even more successful had CCP gone ahead and made High Sec 100% safe but the devs stubbornly stuck to their vision, for better or worse.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'll give you a hint: it's an old one, with a retail launch a couple weeks ahead of WoW in November.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Eve as others have pointed out has the majority of the players in "safer" space so it is logical to assume they aren't into PvP as much.
Not sure about the numbers, and honestly, too lazy to look it up. Not sure what point you are making with that.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I don't think I've ever run into a cheater in the PvP MMO I play thanks to copious data collection on the part of the devs.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Not saying it does not happen, I am saying it is nowhere near as bad as some people would want us to think.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
You do understand people have different opinions than you do correct?
You have still haven't said a valid reason why laws or supernatural karma that go with the lore of a gaming world are wrong.
Might makes right rules simply have not worked. Accountability and conciousness does not exist in a pure killer takes all in games.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.