Video Games as High School Varsity Sports

Amathe · March 2019

In some places they are, anyway:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2019/03/18/esports-high-school-varsity-sport-orig.cnn-business/video/playlists/business-tech/

AlBQuirky · March 2019

Ugh. Will smartphone swiping become one, too? The kids are into that, aren't they?

I never "took to" the label "esports." Video games have almost nothing in common with "real sports", where physical activity is more often involved. Sitting on one's ass clicking buttons is NOT a sport. It's a geeky, nerdy thing

Let the flaming begin

Theocritus · March 2019

I guess because there is competition that some consider video games as sports, but really they have zero in common with sports....EGames is much more accurate as that is what they are.

Hashbrick · March 2019

AlBQuirky said:
Ugh. Will smartphone swiping become one, too? The kids are into that, aren't they?

I never "took to" the label "esports." Video games have almost nothing in common with "real sports", where physical activity is more often involved. Sitting on one's ass clicking buttons is NOT a sport. It's a geeky, nerdy thing

Let the flaming begin

Esports take skill and anyone that doesn't recognize that is a hypocrite of sports in general. Sports has nothing to do with physical and everything to do about skill. The art of running and diving a one handed catch is a skill. It has nothing to do with physical activity and everything to do with that is way the game is played. The art of hitting sweet headshots in counterstrike consistently is a skill, the art of running anti strat plays to take out the opposition is a skill. Leave physical activity out of it, it has nothing to do with it.

natpick · March 2019

gaming has no place in sports,there keep trying to get it as a olympic sport also,ridiculas imho and an insult to athletes.

Hashbrick · March 2019

natpick said:

gaming has no place in sports,there keep trying to get it as a olympic sport also,ridiculas imho and an insult to athletes.

No one says it has to be an Olympic sport. Insult is a bit much if you ask me. I guess golf shouldn't be a sport cause they just swing and walk, fishing shouldn't be a sport cause you just stand in a boat and reel in a fish when it bites. Hunting shouldn't be a sport cause you just sit on your ass til you shoot something.

Hypocrites the lot of ya.

AlBQuirky · March 2019

Hashbrick said:

natpick said:

gaming has no place in sports,there keep trying to get it as a olympic sport also,ridiculas imho and an insult to athletes.

No one says it has to be an Olympic sport. Insult is a bit much if you ask me. I guess golf shouldn't be a sport cause they just swing and walk, fishing shouldn't be a sport cause you just stand in a boat and reel in a fish when it bites. Hunting shouldn't be a sport cause you just sit on your ass til you shoot something.

Hypocrites the lot of ya.

At least golfers move. All the "esports" wannabe athletes keep trying to make themselves something they are not: physical specimens. Chess is NOT a sport. It's a game. Risk is not a sport. It's a game. Skyrim is N OT a sport. It's a game. COD and all other FPS are GAMES, not sports. Starcraft is a game, NOT a sport.

Keep trying. Then go outside (or indoors, even) and actually play sport. You'll see there is NO comparison. Key clicking is NOT an "athletic skill", no matter hard you want it to be.

But hey, believe whatever you wish. Just ignore my laughter. You don't need my approval, I hope.

PS: I don't consider hunting and fishing sports, either. Killing unarmed opponents is NOT "sporting" at all. Arm the animals and then I'll consider it a "sport." Killing animals that can actually defend themselves is not a "sport" either, as humans tip the scales so far in their favor that losing is nigh impossible.

immodium · March 2019

AlBQuirky said:

At least golfers move.

Yep, every time I've watched an esports event the competitors don't move a muscle. They just sit there expressionless, whilst using their telekinesis abilities to prevail.

If snooker/pool or darts can be labeled a sport, so can gaming.

Lokero · March 2019

Hashbrick said:

AlBQuirky said:
Ugh. Will smartphone swiping become one, too? The kids are into that, aren't they?

I never "took to" the label "esports." Video games have almost nothing in common with "real sports", where physical activity is more often involved. Sitting on one's ass clicking buttons is NOT a sport. It's a geeky, nerdy thing

Let the flaming begin

Esports take skill and anyone that doesn't recognize that is a hypocrite of sports in general. Sports has nothing to do with physical and everything to do about skill. The art of running and diving a one handed catch is a skill. It has nothing to do with physical activity and everything to do with that is way the game is played. The art of hitting sweet headshots in counterstrike consistently is a skill, the art of running anti strat plays to take out the opposition is a skill. Leave physical activity out of it, it has nothing to do with it.

natpick said:

gaming has no place in sports,there keep trying to get it as a olympic sport also,ridiculas imho and an insult to athletes.

Hmm, fascinating to think about the future...

One day, there will be no distinction between a regular sport and a gaming sport.

When AR/VR become legitimate variables of everyday life, it could profoundly change physical sports, in theory.

Think of the possibilities having a virtual facility instead of a physical one could open up to all sorts of athletes. You wouldn't have to worry about distances and travel costs or borders.

Your high school football team could step into the virtual field and play against some team in India one week and Australia the next.

And, in theory, would remove much of the injury risks associated with high contact sports.

In theory, your athletes would still be performing the physical and be in shape, but doing it in a virtual environment with opponents that wouldn't even have to really be there.

Albatroes · March 2019

The idea isn't exactly new given that the University of Michigan was giving full scholarships to LoL players for years now. It really just comes down to money, which is what esports really pulls in. I know some people scoff at it but the level of coordination and dexterity some of these kids have is pretty incredible as well as the military using people of high skill level for certain things like drones etc.

Scot · March 2019

I saw the headline and thought the thread was about the great Video Games High School series ahh well.

Asm0deus · March 2019

AlBQuirky said:

Ugh. Will smartphone swiping become one, too? The kids are into that, aren't they?

I never "took to" the label "esports." Video games have almost nothing in common with "real sports", where physical activity is more often involved. Sitting on one's ass clicking buttons is NOT a sport. It's a geeky, nerdy thing

Let the flaming begin

I agree. esports are not sports anymore than monopoly or payday are sports even though these things are competitive.

Imo a sport is something physically competitive which improves ones physical ability and also has some clear health benefits.

The above doesn't mean esports don't involve skill any more than board game can involve skill.

Sometimes as I get older I think people lose touch with the essentials and fool themselves into believing nonsense...it's attitudes like esports are real sports and the people playing them are "athletes" which has led America in general to becoming fat and unfit with rampant "old people" diseases like type 2 diabetes running rampant around young people.

Amathe · March 2019

Here is a decent article discussing whether video games properly could be called a sport:

https://www.statslife.org.uk/sports/3222-e-sports-mind-sports-and-the-olympics-what-is-a-sport-anyway

I have to admit that although my knee jerk reaction to video games being called a sport is that it is complete bs, once you allow for darts to be a sport, it's not so far of a leap.

Scot · March 2019

Amathe said:

Here is a decent article discussing whether video games properly could be called a sport:

https://www.statslife.org.uk/sports/3222-e-sports-mind-sports-and-the-olympics-what-is-a-sport-anyway

I have to admit that although my knee jerk reaction to video games being called a sport is that it is complete bs, once you allow for darts to be a sport, it's not so far of a leap.

I can't understand why they are not High School Varsity Games, what is so wrong with gaming that it needs a name change to epsports?

Amathe · March 2019

I varsity lettered in band lol (for real). So glass houses and all that.

MadFrenchie · March 2019

Hashbrick said:

AlBQuirky said:
Ugh. Will smartphone swiping become one, too? The kids are into that, aren't they?

I never "took to" the label "esports." Video games have almost nothing in common with "real sports", where physical activity is more often involved. Sitting on one's ass clicking buttons is NOT a sport. It's a geeky, nerdy thing

Let the flaming begin

Esports take skill and anyone that doesn't recognize that is a hypocrite of sports in general. Sports has nothing to do with physical and everything to do about skill. The art of running and diving a one handed catch is a skill. It has nothing to do with physical activity and everything to do with that is way the game is played. The art of hitting sweet headshots in counterstrike consistently is a skill, the art of running anti strat plays to take out the opposition is a skill. Leave physical activity out of it, it has nothing to do with it.

Making a diving catch requires the physical ability to do so. There's skill, but also the muscles needed to place enough pressure on the ball at the right angle to halt its motion.

And that diving catch doesn't happen until the end of the route... And if the receiver, say, can't run any more than a 5.0 flat-40, not only would they never get the separation needed to make such a catch.... They wouldn't be on the field to begin with.

A running back uses the weight of their legs to remain upright when hit by a defender in their upper body. They use a vertical to leap over defenders that dive at their legs. Hell, some can even leap over a defender standing upright (indeed, multiple players have done just this).

So yeah, it does have to do with physical activity. It also has to do with skill. Sports generally require both. In fact "activity involving physical exertion and skill" is literally part of the definition of the word.

Asm0deus · March 2019

Amathe said:

Here is a decent article discussing whether video games properly could be called a sport:

https://www.statslife.org.uk/sports/3222-e-sports-mind-sports-and-the-olympics-what-is-a-sport-anyway

I have to admit that although my knee jerk reaction to video games being called a sport is that it is complete bs, once you allow for darts to be a sport, it's not so far of a leap.

It the danger of the slippery slope which is what we are seeing here.

Somethings have been let in or considered "sports" which really should not have been which is opening the door to letting even more things which is getting out of hand.

Like Scot has said above there's no good reason these games can't have their own category like Varsity Games or Varsity Gaming and I don't get the need for these things to be labeled as "sports". I include darts, pool, etc etc and say these thing are not sport but should be in the game category along with the so called Esports.

Amathe · March 2019

Asm0deus said:

It the danger of the slippery slope which is what we are seeing here.

If I slide down that slippery slope, will our discussion be elevated to a sport?

Asm0deus · March 2019

Amathe said:

Asm0deus said:

It the danger of the slippery slope which is what we are seeing here.

If I slide down that slippery slope, will our discussion be elevated to a sport?

At this rate I wouldn't be surprised to see debate clubs calling for a spot in the Olympics...by the way you answered me inside a quote..you need more practice with this "skill/sport".....

If you can't get the cursor outside the quote hit the </> symbol, see at top, and at the end of the text add <br> then hit </> again. You should be able to get the cursor outside of the quote area now.

Hashbrick · March 2019

AlBQuirky said:

Hashbrick said:

natpick said:

gaming has no place in sports,there keep trying to get it as a olympic sport also,ridiculas imho and an insult to athletes.

No one says it has to be an Olympic sport. Insult is a bit much if you ask me. I guess golf shouldn't be a sport cause they just swing and walk, fishing shouldn't be a sport cause you just stand in a boat and reel in a fish when it bites. Hunting shouldn't be a sport cause you just sit on your ass til you shoot something.

Hypocrites the lot of ya.

At least golfers move. All the "esports" wannabe athletes keep trying to make themselves something they are not: physical specimens. Chess is NOT a sport. It's a game. Risk is not a sport. It's a game. Skyrim is N OT a sport. It's a game. COD and all other FPS are GAMES, not sports. Starcraft is a game, NOT a sport.

Keep trying. Then go outside (or indoors, even) and actually play sport. You'll see there is NO comparison. Key clicking is NOT an "athletic skill", no matter hard you want it to be.

But hey, believe whatever you wish. Just ignore my laughter. You don't need my approval, I hope.

PS: I don't consider hunting and fishing sports, either. Killing unarmed opponents is NOT "sporting" at all. Arm the animals and then I'll consider it a "sport." Killing animals that can actually defend themselves is not a "sport" either, as humans tip the scales so far in their favor that losing is nigh impossible.

When you keep adding "athletic skill" you are already singling things out. The definition varies, but one thing that it's singled down to is skill. Over 1 million viewers watched the Counter-Strike Majors. Is it not a sport? Well it must be cause you already got Turner's dirty fingers in it, see Eleague. It is labeled esports because they know old folks and closed minded people are never going to accept competitive games as a sport. They now have a players league, contract negotiations with player unions much like any large traditional sport. It's evolving, big time, it has big money in it and you will see the traditional sports market gobble it up. Dallas cowboys has an esports team, 76ers has an esports team, hell Mark Cubin just bought an esports team. Like it or not it's the future of entertainment. When the same tired sports constantly lose viewership, esports will rise above the ashes.

Hashbrick · March 2019

MadFrenchie said:

Hashbrick said:

AlBQuirky said:
Ugh. Will smartphone swiping become one, too? The kids are into that, aren't they?

I never "took to" the label "esports." Video games have almost nothing in common with "real sports", where physical activity is more often involved. Sitting on one's ass clicking buttons is NOT a sport. It's a geeky, nerdy thing

Let the flaming begin

Esports take skill and anyone that doesn't recognize that is a hypocrite of sports in general. Sports has nothing to do with physical and everything to do about skill. The art of running and diving a one handed catch is a skill. It has nothing to do with physical activity and everything to do with that is way the game is played. The art of hitting sweet headshots in counterstrike consistently is a skill, the art of running anti strat plays to take out the opposition is a skill. Leave physical activity out of it, it has nothing to do with it.

Making a diving catch requires the physical ability to do so. There's skill, but also the muscles needed to place enough pressure on the ball at the right angle to halt its motion.

And that diving catch doesn't happen until the end of the route... And if the receiver, say, can't run any more than a 5.0 flat-40, not only would they never get the separation needed to make such a catch.... They wouldn't be on the field to begin with.

A running back uses the weight of their legs to remain upright when hit by a defender in their upper body. They use a vertical to leap over defenders that dive at their legs. Hell, some can even leap over a defender standing upright (indeed, multiple players have done just this).

So yeah, it does have to do with physical activity. It also has to do with skill. Sports generally require both. In fact "activity involving physical exertion and skill" is literally part of the definition of the word.

It takes a counter-strike player precise movement, hand eye coordination, the right amount of pressure and space tapping on the mouse to skillfully be effective. Hand eye coordination being the big one, not anyone can be a pro counter-strike player because it requires the talent and awareness. There are celebrity players in counter-strike and LoL much like any traditional sports player. Not anyone can just do it, much like not anyone can just dive catch a football one handed. If you want to say physical ability then I counter that with you need the ability to have godlike hand eye coordination, precise movement and multitasking in esports.

I'm not talking about the definition, the definition needs to change just like laws change over time to adapt to the current generation. Anything you can counter with for traditional sports there is an equal but opposite to the esports side.

So again tell me what's different other than "it's physical".

Amathe · March 2019

Hashbrick said:

So again tell me what's different other than "it's physical".

You could argue that playing counter-strike is a lot like the recognized sport of riflery. Of course, you could also argue that riflery is not a proper sport either.

Tamanous · March 2019

Hashbrick said:

MadFrenchie said:

Hashbrick said:

AlBQuirky said:
Ugh. Will smartphone swiping become one, too? The kids are into that, aren't they?

I never "took to" the label "esports." Video games have almost nothing in common with "real sports", where physical activity is more often involved. Sitting on one's ass clicking buttons is NOT a sport. It's a geeky, nerdy thing

Let the flaming begin

Esports take skill and anyone that doesn't recognize that is a hypocrite of sports in general. Sports has nothing to do with physical and everything to do about skill. The art of running and diving a one handed catch is a skill. It has nothing to do with physical activity and everything to do with that is way the game is played. The art of hitting sweet headshots in counterstrike consistently is a skill, the art of running anti strat plays to take out the opposition is a skill. Leave physical activity out of it, it has nothing to do with it.

Making a diving catch requires the physical ability to do so. There's skill, but also the muscles needed to place enough pressure on the ball at the right angle to halt its motion.

And that diving catch doesn't happen until the end of the route... And if the receiver, say, can't run any more than a 5.0 flat-40, not only would they never get the separation needed to make such a catch.... They wouldn't be on the field to begin with.

A running back uses the weight of their legs to remain upright when hit by a defender in their upper body. They use a vertical to leap over defenders that dive at their legs. Hell, some can even leap over a defender standing upright (indeed, multiple players have done just this).

So yeah, it does have to do with physical activity. It also has to do with skill. Sports generally require both. In fact "activity involving physical exertion and skill" is literally part of the definition of the word.

It takes a counter-strike player precise movement, hand eye coordination, the right amount of pressure and space tapping on the mouse to skillfully be effective. Hand eye coordination being the big one, not anyone can be a pro counter-strike player because it requires the talent and awareness. There are celebrity players in counter-strike and LoL much like any traditional sports player. Not anyone can just do it, much like not anyone can just dive catch a football one handed. If you want to say physical ability then I counter that with you need the ability to have godlike hand eye coordination, precise movement and multitasking in esports.

I'm not talking about the definition, the definition needs to change just like laws change over time to adapt to the current generation. Anything you can counter with for traditional sports there is an equal but opposite to the esports side.

So again tell me what's different other than "it's physical".

A fat person who is 10 minutes from a heart attack could potentially be the top player of any video game.

Yes, there is a massive difference between physical athletics and video game playing. To compare mastering the interface is to athletic sports is like saying Gymnasts are the same a piano player.

They are 2 functionally different things, no matter what anyone wants to call them.

Athletics is mastering movement in real world physics using all senses.

Video game playing is mastering movement is virtual physics requiring only partial senses.

They will NEVER be the same.

Asm0deus · March 2019

Esport athletes:

Real athletes:

Enough said.

Hashbrick · March 2019

Tamanous said:

Hashbrick said:

MadFrenchie said:

Hashbrick said:

AlBQuirky said:
Ugh. Will smartphone swiping become one, too? The kids are into that, aren't they?

I never "took to" the label "esports." Video games have almost nothing in common with "real sports", where physical activity is more often involved. Sitting on one's ass clicking buttons is NOT a sport. It's a geeky, nerdy thing

Let the flaming begin

Esports take skill and anyone that doesn't recognize that is a hypocrite of sports in general. Sports has nothing to do with physical and everything to do about skill. The art of running and diving a one handed catch is a skill. It has nothing to do with physical activity and everything to do with that is way the game is played. The art of hitting sweet headshots in counterstrike consistently is a skill, the art of running anti strat plays to take out the opposition is a skill. Leave physical activity out of it, it has nothing to do with it.

Making a diving catch requires the physical ability to do so. There's skill, but also the muscles needed to place enough pressure on the ball at the right angle to halt its motion.

And that diving catch doesn't happen until the end of the route... And if the receiver, say, can't run any more than a 5.0 flat-40, not only would they never get the separation needed to make such a catch.... They wouldn't be on the field to begin with.

A running back uses the weight of their legs to remain upright when hit by a defender in their upper body. They use a vertical to leap over defenders that dive at their legs. Hell, some can even leap over a defender standing upright (indeed, multiple players have done just this).

So yeah, it does have to do with physical activity. It also has to do with skill. Sports generally require both. In fact "activity involving physical exertion and skill" is literally part of the definition of the word.

It takes a counter-strike player precise movement, hand eye coordination, the right amount of pressure and space tapping on the mouse to skillfully be effective. Hand eye coordination being the big one, not anyone can be a pro counter-strike player because it requires the talent and awareness. There are celebrity players in counter-strike and LoL much like any traditional sports player. Not anyone can just do it, much like not anyone can just dive catch a football one handed. If you want to say physical ability then I counter that with you need the ability to have godlike hand eye coordination, precise movement and multitasking in esports.

I'm not talking about the definition, the definition needs to change just like laws change over time to adapt to the current generation. Anything you can counter with for traditional sports there is an equal but opposite to the esports side.

So again tell me what's different other than "it's physical".

A fat person who is 10 minutes from a heart attack could potentially be the top player of any video game.

Yes, there is a massive difference between physical athletics and video game playing. To compare mastering the interface is to athletic sports is like saying Gymnasts are the same a piano player.

They are 2 functionally different things, no matter what anyone wants to call them.

Athletics is mastering movement in real world physics using all senses.

Video game playing is mastering movement is virtual physics requiring only partial senses.

They will NEVER be the same.

No one is saying they will ever be the same. Basketball is not the same as Football. Hockey is not the same as Baseball. Doesn't change the fact all of them are competition based, with teams, players, unions, fans, and money.

Also wtf does body shamming have to do with anything. Do you even know of esports, the players are typically just as fit and healthy as traditional sport players. They do have outside worlds too...

Asm0deus · March 2019

Hashbrick said:

Tamanous said:

Hashbrick said:

MadFrenchie said:

Hashbrick said:

AlBQuirky said:
Ugh. Will smartphone swiping become one, too? The kids are into that, aren't they?

I never "took to" the label "esports." Video games have almost nothing in common with "real sports", where physical activity is more often involved. Sitting on one's ass clicking buttons is NOT a sport. It's a geeky, nerdy thing

Let the flaming begin

Esports take skill and anyone that doesn't recognize that is a hypocrite of sports in general. Sports has nothing to do with physical and everything to do about skill. The art of running and diving a one handed catch is a skill. It has nothing to do with physical activity and everything to do with that is way the game is played. The art of hitting sweet headshots in counterstrike consistently is a skill, the art of running anti strat plays to take out the opposition is a skill. Leave physical activity out of it, it has nothing to do with it.

Making a diving catch requires the physical ability to do so. There's skill, but also the muscles needed to place enough pressure on the ball at the right angle to halt its motion.

And that diving catch doesn't happen until the end of the route... And if the receiver, say, can't run any more than a 5.0 flat-40, not only would they never get the separation needed to make such a catch.... They wouldn't be on the field to begin with.

A running back uses the weight of their legs to remain upright when hit by a defender in their upper body. They use a vertical to leap over defenders that dive at their legs. Hell, some can even leap over a defender standing upright (indeed, multiple players have done just this).

So yeah, it does have to do with physical activity. It also has to do with skill. Sports generally require both. In fact "activity involving physical exertion and skill" is literally part of the definition of the word.

It takes a counter-strike player precise movement, hand eye coordination, the right amount of pressure and space tapping on the mouse to skillfully be effective. Hand eye coordination being the big one, not anyone can be a pro counter-strike player because it requires the talent and awareness. There are celebrity players in counter-strike and LoL much like any traditional sports player. Not anyone can just do it, much like not anyone can just dive catch a football one handed. If you want to say physical ability then I counter that with you need the ability to have godlike hand eye coordination, precise movement and multitasking in esports.

I'm not talking about the definition, the definition needs to change just like laws change over time to adapt to the current generation. Anything you can counter with for traditional sports there is an equal but opposite to the esports side.

So again tell me what's different other than "it's physical".

A fat person who is 10 minutes from a heart attack could potentially be the top player of any video game.

Yes, there is a massive difference between physical athletics and video game playing. To compare mastering the interface is to athletic sports is like saying Gymnasts are the same a piano player.

They are 2 functionally different things, no matter what anyone wants to call them.

Athletics is mastering movement in real world physics using all senses.

Video game playing is mastering movement is virtual physics requiring only partial senses.

They will NEVER be the same.

No one is saying they will ever be the same. Basketball is not the same as Football. Hockey is not the same as Baseball. Doesn't change the fact all of them are competition based, with teams, players, unions, fans, and money.

Also wtf does body shamming have to do with anything. Do you even know of esports, the players are typically just as fit and healthy as traditional sport players. They do have outside worlds too...

Body shaming my arse. It's to clearly point out that all real sports have one thing in common, it's athletes need to train their bodies in the gym and outside the gym to be in their best peak physical condition as that's a basic requirement of being a sports athlete.

I don't know any pro baseball, football, rugby, tennis, gymnastic etc etc athletes which don't train themselves in BODY and MIND to be their best. This also has the added benefits of them being generally more healthy than the rest of us slobs that sit on our arses watching them from the comfort of our chairs/couches etc.

If you can't see what makes them different then I think you need to step outside and actually try some real sports....

This isn't about being closed minded and not accepting new emerging competitive events but rather about wanting them to be defined properly.

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Video Games as High School Varsity Sports

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Video Games as High School Varsity Sports

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