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Goals for 2019 Part 1 - Playable game by Sep 22nd, 2019

KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,005
As taken from the March 8th State of Elyria Dev blog.

Two things which will no doubt be a major focus of 2019:

1.) "Our goal for the completion of Release 0.5.0 is to have a complete, playable game." [Note, no actual target date but he probably doesn't realize he set a defacto one with his comments, Sept 22nd, 2019, the "end of summer".]

"The Pre-Alpha phase for us means delivering a client and server that allows our Alpha 1 backers to get in and play a subset of the Alpha 1 features in a fully playable game."  

We're about three-fifths of the way done with the features we have planned for the Pre-Alpha"

"With about 40% of the feature work remaining in Release 0.5.0, we've still got another couple months to finish up release 0.5.0. While I don't have an exact date I can provide, it will likely take until this summer to finish up"

"Pre-Alpha may not be the first opportunity for players to jump into the world of Elyria!" [Interesting news, IMO better not to announce such unless very confident it will happen, otherwise if not will be looked at as a missed goal by some.]

2) Deliver Domain & Settlement Selection. (Will be discussed in a separate thread)

"See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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Comments

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,861
    I've no doubt that the verbal gymnastics around what constitutes a "fully playable game" will be awe-inspiring to behold !

    Xodic
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,710
    I've no doubt that the verbal gymnastics around what constitutes a "fully playable game" will be awe-inspiring to behold !

    Undoubtedly.   I mean... they are now talking about pre-pre-alpha.  The problem has been and continues to be that they set a ridiculously low bar and continue to miss it.  Anyone in a college CS program can make a "fully functional game" where you create a character with some stats, move around the world, can harvest and encounter creatures for combat.   For all the mocking I toss James  (Greedmonger) Proctors way, he literally did all of the above in a week.

    Their goal should be to check off some of the HARD stuff.   How many players can they get together?  How is the "OPC" (Offline Player Character) stuff?  Does the scripting really work?  The AI seems like a player?  How about the large scale sieges which will inevitably form the base of any territory control PvP game?

    THAT is the stuff they should be testing right now... because THAT stuff will take a very, very long time to get right.

    Not moving a character around a screen and performing basic gathering and combat.
    GdemamiHatefulltweedledumb99

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 170
    I really, really wish, Caspian didn't even say a hint of any dates. Basically locking down DSS. Giving away when people should expect the Pre-Elyria. This is all going to end so badly. 

    Something I'm curious of, how people will react to:

    But stay tuned! We've got a very big announcement for the community coming up in the next couple months, as the Pre-Alpha may not be the first opportunity for players to jump into the world of Elyria!

    More of a tease over really explaining much. While making something before Pre-Elyria, gotta wonder why. Would whatever they are making, push back everything even more? Which makes me again wonder, why they even bother.


    KyleranGdemamiHatefull
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,710
    Torrsk said:
    I really, really wish, Caspian didn't even say a hint of any dates. Basically locking down DSS. Giving away when people should expect the Pre-Elyria. This is all going to end so badly. 

    Something I'm curious of, how people will react to:

    But stay tuned! We've got a very big announcement for the community coming up in the next couple months, as the Pre-Alpha may not be the first opportunity for players to jump into the world of Elyria!

    More of a tease over really explaining much. While making something before Pre-Elyria, gotta wonder why. Would whatever they are making, push back everything even more? Which makes me again wonder, why they even bother.


    Last year’s SoE they were talking about Alpha 1 starting. 14 months later they are talking about pre-pre-Alpha.  Is there some lower bar they can possibly set?
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • TorrskTorrsk Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Slapshot1188 said:
    Last year’s SoE they were talking about Alpha 1 starting. 14 months later they are talking about pre-pre-Alpha.  Is there some lower bar they can possibly set?
    Yeah next year they will talk about DSS starting. I can't honestly see how it can start in April. There is still stuff to be done beforehand. Unless it's all right around the corner, which seems unlikely.
    Gdemami
  • goldboyy45goldboyy45 Member UncommonPosts: 41
    Torrsk said:
    I really, really wish, Caspian didn't even say a hint of any dates. Basically locking down DSS. Giving away when people should expect the Pre-Elyria. This is all going to end so badly. 

    Something I'm curious of, how people will react to:

    But stay tuned! We've got a very big announcement for the community coming up in the next couple months, as the Pre-Alpha may not be the first opportunity for players to jump into the world of Elyria!

    More of a tease over really explaining much. While making something before Pre-Elyria, gotta wonder why. Would whatever they are making, push back everything even more? Which makes me again wonder, why they even bother.


    Last year’s SoE they were talking about Alpha 1 starting. 14 months later they are talking about pre-pre-Alpha.  Is there some lower bar they can possibly set?
    Is there a lower bar? Soulbound Studios is absolutely clueless, what a sh*t show this has been. Do you remember the State of Elyria letter about 2 years ago? Outlining how they want to release exposition in 1H 2019 and a FULL world-wide release in 2H 2019? with a few months left in the first half of 2019 we are 60% into the development of the Pre-Elyria!, is this some kind of joke? They went from forecasting a exposition release in 2019 to a damn pre-alpha? On paper, I love CoE, I have supported  this project for about 3 years and it's a damn shame what it has become under Caspian's wing. I personally see no path forward where they release this title. Shame on you Caspian for getting people amped up for this.
    Gdemami
  • ErevusErevus Member UncommonPosts: 94
    The only best thing that can happen to this MMO is Caspian selling it, while he still can, and us seeing a full release in 2020?.
    Gdemami
    "We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing"

    Benjamin Franklin
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,230
    Sounds like a new battle royale game will be coming at the end of summer....for testing purposes of course...
    HatefullSpottyGekko
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,877
    They couldn't even make a MUD.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,011
    Kyleran said:
    As taken from the March 8th State of Elyria Dev blog.

    Two things which will no doubt be a major focus of 2019:

    1.) "Our goal for the completion of Release 0.5.0 is to have a complete, playable game." [Note, no actual target date but he probably doesn't realize he set a defacto one with his comments, Sept 22nd, 2019, the "end of summer".]

    "The Pre-Alpha phase for us means delivering a client and server that allows our Alpha 1 backers to get in and play a subset of the Alpha 1 features in a fully playable game."  

    We're about three-fifths of the way done with the features we have planned for the Pre-Alpha"

    "With about 40% of the feature work remaining in Release 0.5.0, we've still got another couple months to finish up release 0.5.0. While I don't have an exact date I can provide, it will likely take until this summer to finish up"

    "Pre-Alpha may not be the first opportunity for players to jump into the world of Elyria!" [Interesting news, IMO better not to announce such unless very confident it will happen, otherwise if not will be looked at as a missed goal by some.]

    2) Deliver Domain & Settlement Selection. (Will be discussed in a separate thread)
    “End of summer” is not setting a date. Why you gotta be that way?

    Regardless I wouldn’t be surprised if a client is shipped that barely allows you to run around let alone test anything major. 
    Gdemami
  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 116
    Torrsk said:
    I really, really wish, Caspian didn't even say a hint of any dates. Basically locking down DSS. Giving away when people should expect the Pre-Elyria. This is all going to end so badly. 

    Something I'm curious of, how people will react to:

    But stay tuned! We've got a very big announcement for the community coming up in the next couple months, as the Pre-Alpha may not be the first opportunity for players to jump into the world of Elyria!

    More of a tease over really explaining much. While making something before Pre-Elyria, gotta wonder why. Would whatever they are making, push back everything even more? Which makes me again wonder, why they even bother.


    Last year’s SoE they were talking about Alpha 1 starting. 14 months later they are talking about pre-pre-Alpha.  Is there some lower bar they can possibly set?
    Is there a lower bar? Soulbound Studios is absolutely clueless, what a sh*t show this has been. Do you remember the State of Elyria letter about 2 years ago? Outlining how they want to release exposition in 1H 2019 and a FULL world-wide release in 2H 2019? with a few months left in the first half of 2019 we are 60% into the development of the Pre-Elyria!, is this some kind of joke? They went from forecasting a exposition release in 2019 to a damn pre-alpha? On paper, I love CoE, I have supported  this project for about 3 years and it's a damn shame what it has become under Caspian's wing. I personally see no path forward where they release this title. Shame on you Caspian for getting people amped up for this.
    Caspian is a world-class limbo dancer representing SBS from what I've seen, he'll shimmy under that bar effortlessly. xD
    SpottyGekko
  • MrTugglesMrTuggles Member UncommonPosts: 165
    I think the biggest issue that they are suffering right now is Caspian's inability to keep the team focused on one task. It seems they move from flavor of the month aspect to flavor of the month aspect. All the while they are not really accomplishing anything.
    Gdemamikjellemann
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 375
    edited March 30
    OK I have agreed with most of the posts here, I agree with most points still.

    But things seem to be moving along slightly now and showing that some of their back end work is paying off. 

    For example if D&SS happens this month that means that their world generation application which has generated the world, biomes, natural resources, settlements, rivers, flora and fauna seems to be complete enough to show what is going where.

    Now I'm not saying it's finished far from it, but it shows that them saying they are working on the back end seems to be true. 
    MadFrenchieHatefulltweedledumb99bcbullykjellemann
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,005
    @AnOldFart, I know you are unhappy with the lack of progress and broken promises thus far, but I think we both believe they are trying hard to build this game.

    Whether or not they can or will is something we'll discuss for many years to come.

    If they succeed in delivering a finished game there is almost no chance it will be "everything" originally promised because things always change between the "vision" and its final executuon yet the end result might still be "fun."

    Creating interesting new games with original ideas is actually quite challenging, but at this point its more beneficial to root for their eventual success than against it.

    Doesn't mean we stop taking them to task for current promises and future mistakes, but past failures can't be undone.

    Probably better to focus on this year's efforts which I see you are already doing by tracking D&SS, promised possibly in April.






    AnOldFarttweedledumb99kjellemann

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,602
    Erevus said:
    The only best thing that can happen to this MMO is Caspian selling it, while he still can, and us seeing a full release in 2020?.
    Dude could not get any investors or publishers to bite on this trainwreck so doubt that will happen.  Nope the S.S Titanic will sink with the captain here.
    kjellemann
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,710
    AnOldFart said:
    OK I have agreed with most of the posts here, I agree with most points still.

    But things seem to be moving along slightly now and showing that some of their back end work is paying off. 

    For example if D&SS happens this month that means that their world generation application which has generated the world, biomes, natural resources, settlements, rivers, flora and fauna seems to be complete enough to show what is going where.

    Now I'm not saying it's finished far from it, but it shows that them saying they are working on the back end seems to be true. 
    It's such a small step (though significant) that he has built up to be some huge accomplishment. 

    This is the EASY stuff.   The hard stuff is yet to come.  The offline player characters, large scale player interaction including wars, etc...

    So far all we have seen related to reputation is that one player gets ignored by an NPC while another gets greeted excitedly.  Something that a kid in school could code in a day.  I again will use the James Proctor example.  So far, there has been nothing demonstrated that I feel James Proctor (of Greedmonger/Rise of Heroes fame) could not have done in a few weeks time (artwork aside).

    Honestly, the best part about this domain selection is that it gives another opportunity for griefing.  If/when people start selecting settlements in some other group's "chosen area" it should make for a fun time.
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,486
    Playable game doesnt mean much in video game industry. 

    Could be missing half the features have more bugs than a motel 8 and still be playable
    MadFrenchieHatefullKyleran
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,106
    edited March 30
    We know what to  expect now days so then it comes down to weather we think the follow up will be much of an effort knowing they will attain 90% of their cash flow on the first couple days of release.

    I would not have trusted Snail games with Atlas "game i play"not even remotely,however i  have actually seen a very steady effort albeit no signs of anymore than maybe 3-5 people.So even out of the blue it is possible to see some unexpected effort.

    Judging by the little information i have come across,one being what was a so called friend of Sharif's,i would venture a guess not much at all will happen and will depend solely on the numbers.If numbers are low,expect damage control if numbers above expectations,then perhaps some effort but then again,i am not seeing much spending until he turns a profit,so this is going to be one long slow drawn out process.

    There is one side of this sort of messy operation that i tend to favor Sharif on and that is if i was in his shoes and my employees setup a private chat room to discuss the game without me,i am going to be VERY uneasy about it.Unfortunately,this started a rift that seems to have caused a problem within.
    Slapshot1188cheyane

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 1,982
    It will be playable and complete as much as a 0.5.0 pre-alpha game is playable and complete. I suppose we get to know exactly the state of this project this summer
    Kyleran
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,710
    Wizardry said:
    We know what to  expect now days so then it comes down to weather we think the follow up will be much of an effort knowing they will attain 90% of their cash flow on the first couple days of release.

    I would not have trusted Snail games with Atlas "game i play"not even remotely,however i  have actually seen a very steady effort albeit no signs of anymore than maybe 3-5 people.So even out of the blue it is possible to see some unexpected effort.

    Judging by the little information i have come across,one being what was a so called friend of Sharif's,i would venture a guess not much at all will happen and will depend solely on the numbers.If numbers are low,expect damage control if numbers above expectations,then perhaps some effort but then again,i am not seeing much spending until he turns a profit,so this is going to be one long slow drawn out process.

    There is one side of this sort of messy operation that i tend to favor Sharif on and that is if i was in his shoes and my employees setup a private chat room to discuss the game without me,i am going to be VERY uneasy about it.Unfortunately,this started a rift that seems to have caused a problem within.
    Did Sharif give up on AoC and buy CoE?

    I think you are mixing up your snake oil salesmen.
    Kyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 375
    AnOldFart said:
    OK I have agreed with most of the posts here, I agree with most points still.

    But things seem to be moving along slightly now and showing that some of their back end work is paying off. 

    For example if D&SS happens this month that means that their world generation application which has generated the world, biomes, natural resources, settlements, rivers, flora and fauna seems to be complete enough to show what is going where.

    Now I'm not saying it's finished far from it, but it shows that them saying they are working on the back end seems to be true. 
    It's such a small step (though significant) that he has built up to be some huge accomplishment. 

    This is the EASY stuff.   The hard stuff is yet to come.  The offline player characters, large scale player interaction including wars, etc...

    So far all we have seen related to reputation is that one player gets ignored by an NPC while another gets greeted excitedly.  Something that a kid in school could code in a day.  I again will use the James Proctor example.  So far, there has been nothing demonstrated that I feel James Proctor (of Greedmonger/Rise of Heroes fame) could not have done in a few weeks time (artwork aside).

    Honestly, the best part about this domain selection is that it gives another opportunity for griefing.  If/when people start selecting settlements in some other group's "chosen area" it should make for a fun time.
    OK gonna sound like a dick for two minutes here so please excuse me. 

    I am assuming you have a working example of a map generator involving weather dynamics, water tables, weather systems, biomes (including transitional biomes) , flora, fauna, settlement and natural resource placements?

    Otherwise how can you say its easy? 

    Also until its proven otherwise I will take him at his word, because I follow evidence not subjective (even based on previous actions)

    If it's wrong when we get to D&SS then I will happily slate him.

    Kyleran said:
    @AnOldFart, I know you are unhappy with the lack of progress and broken promises thus far, but I think we both believe they are trying hard to build this game.

    Whether or not they can or will is something we'll discuss for many years to come.

    If they succeed in delivering a finished game there is almost no chance it will be "everything" originally promised because things always change between the "vision" and its final executuon yet the end result might still be "fun."

    Creating interesting new games with original ideas is actually quite challenging, but at this point its more beneficial to root for their eventual success than against it.

    Doesn't mean we stop taking them to task for current promises and future mistakes, but past failures can't be undone.

    Probably better to focus on this year's efforts which I see you are already doing by tracking D&SS, promised possibly in April.






    Oh I 100% believe they are trying to make the game, and if they just shared more info like they promised I would probably be happy with the progress made.
    Your right about the end product and how it will differ from the promised product  
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,710
    AnOldFart said:
    AnOldFart said:
    OK I have agreed with most of the posts here, I agree with most points still.

    But things seem to be moving along slightly now and showing that some of their back end work is paying off. 

    For example if D&SS happens this month that means that their world generation application which has generated the world, biomes, natural resources, settlements, rivers, flora and fauna seems to be complete enough to show what is going where.

    Now I'm not saying it's finished far from it, but it shows that them saying they are working on the back end seems to be true. 
    It's such a small step (though significant) that he has built up to be some huge accomplishment. 

    This is the EASY stuff.   The hard stuff is yet to come.  The offline player characters, large scale player interaction including wars, etc...

    So far all we have seen related to reputation is that one player gets ignored by an NPC while another gets greeted excitedly.  Something that a kid in school could code in a day.  I again will use the James Proctor example.  So far, there has been nothing demonstrated that I feel James Proctor (of Greedmonger/Rise of Heroes fame) could not have done in a few weeks time (artwork aside).

    Honestly, the best part about this domain selection is that it gives another opportunity for griefing.  If/when people start selecting settlements in some other group's "chosen area" it should make for a fun time.
    OK gonna sound like a dick for two minutes here so please excuse me. 

    I am assuming you have a working example of a map generator involving weather dynamics, water tables, weather systems, biomes (including transitional biomes) , flora, fauna, settlement and natural resource placements?

    Otherwise how can you say its easy? 

    Also until its proven otherwise I will take him at his word, because I follow evidence not subjective (even based on previous actions)

    If it's wrong when we get to D&SS then I will happily slate him.

      
    All you said, except maybe water tables and weather systems are standard parts of every single MMORPG map. But even those have been done before (even Mortal Online had weather systems). Biome is just a fancy name for zone and they have existed since the early days of MMORPGs.  And yes they were all populated with flora and fauna.  Heck, (while certainly not even close to the first) just think about Un'Goro Crater in WoW for a well done "biome".  Go back to EQ and they had "biomes" all populated with unique flora, fauna, NPCs (settlements).

    Back to the James proctor example.  I think that he demonstrated different "biomes" with grasslands and forests, different flora and fauna by populating with store-bought assets and he showed resource placement and harvesting.   He did that in a week or 2.  Sure it looked like crap (because it was), but in essence, it was a complete game loop.  Create characters, kill mobs, harvest resources, level up.

    As I said, the hard stuff hasn't been touched yet.  Let's see the OPC scripting that allows players to stay online and be functional 24/7 without being sitting ducks.  Let's see them handle large numbers of players gathered together in a war setting. 

    PS: You know... thinking about it even Darkfall had:
    Weather dynamics
    Weather systems
    Biomes
    Flora
    Fauna
    Settlements you could build
    Natural resource placement

    The probably had some sort of water table as well because they had a fully functional naval component to their game with oceans and ships.

    I think these are just basic things in games today.  Perhaps you can explain specifically how what CoE is doing with the world is a huge step above what Darkfall did 10 years ago?

    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,011
    edited March 30
    AnOldFart said:
    AnOldFart said:
    OK I have agreed with most of the posts here, I agree with most points still.

    But things seem to be moving along slightly now and showing that some of their back end work is paying off. 

    For example if D&SS happens this month that means that their world generation application which has generated the world, biomes, natural resources, settlements, rivers, flora and fauna seems to be complete enough to show what is going where.

    Now I'm not saying it's finished far from it, but it shows that them saying they are working on the back end seems to be true. 
    It's such a small step (though significant) that he has built up to be some huge accomplishment. 

    This is the EASY stuff.   The hard stuff is yet to come.  The offline player characters, large scale player interaction including wars, etc...

    So far all we have seen related to reputation is that one player gets ignored by an NPC while another gets greeted excitedly.  Something that a kid in school could code in a day.  I again will use the James Proctor example.  So far, there has been nothing demonstrated that I feel James Proctor (of Greedmonger/Rise of Heroes fame) could not have done in a few weeks time (artwork aside).

    Honestly, the best part about this domain selection is that it gives another opportunity for griefing.  If/when people start selecting settlements in some other group's "chosen area" it should make for a fun time.
    OK gonna sound like a dick for two minutes here so please excuse me. 

    I am assuming you have a working example of a map generator involving weather dynamics, water tables, weather systems, biomes (including transitional biomes) , flora, fauna, settlement and natural resource placements?

    Otherwise how can you say its easy? 

    Also until its proven otherwise I will take him at his word, because I follow evidence not subjective (even based on previous actions)

    If it's wrong when we get to D&SS then I will happily slate him.

      
    All you said, except maybe water tables and weather systems are standard parts of every single MMORPG map. But even those have been done before (even Mortal Online had weather systems). Biome is just a fancy name for zone and they have existed since the early days of MMORPGs.  And yes they were all populated with flora and fauna.  Heck, (while certainly not even close to the first) just think about Un'Goro Crater in WoW for a well done "biome".  Go back to EQ and they had "biomes" all populated with unique flora, fauna, NPCs (settlements).

    Back to the James proctor example.  I think that he demonstrated different "biomes" with grasslands and forests, different flora and fauna by populating with store-bought assets and he showed resource placement and harvesting.   He did that in a week or 2.  Sure it looked like crap (because it was), but in essence, it was a complete game loop.  Create characters, kill mobs, harvest resources, level up.

    As I said, the hard stuff hasn't been touched yet.  Let's see the OPC scripting that allows players to stay online and be functional 24/7 without being sitting ducks.  Let's see them handle large numbers of players gathered together in a war setting. 

    PS: You know... thinking about it even Darkfall had:
    Weather dynamics
    Weather systems
    Biomes
    Flora
    Fauna
    Settlements you could build
    Natural resource placement

    The probably had some sort of water table as well because they had a fully functional naval component to their game with oceans and ships.

    I think these are just basic things in games today.  Perhaps you can explain specifically how what CoE is doing with the world is a huge step above what Darkfall did 10 years ago?

    Darkfall took 10 years to build and it was a shadow of what they promised. They did create their own engine which at the time was necessary so there is that aspect. Another thing to consider is that it's possible the challenging aspects of CoE like you mention are slowing down other aspects as well. Perhaps they want those pieces in place before considering other pieces complete. 

    But it's all hearsay so it doesn't matter. We'll only know what they have when we can get our hands on it...

    Not for or against anything here, just throwing in some discussion :D
    Kyleran
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,069
    AnOldFart said:
    AnOldFart said:
    OK I have agreed with most of the posts here, I agree with most points still.

    But things seem to be moving along slightly now and showing that some of their back end work is paying off. 

    For example if D&SS happens this month that means that their world generation application which has generated the world, biomes, natural resources, settlements, rivers, flora and fauna seems to be complete enough to show what is going where.

    Now I'm not saying it's finished far from it, but it shows that them saying they are working on the back end seems to be true. 
    It's such a small step (though significant) that he has built up to be some huge accomplishment. 

    This is the EASY stuff.   The hard stuff is yet to come.  The offline player characters, large scale player interaction including wars, etc...

    So far all we have seen related to reputation is that one player gets ignored by an NPC while another gets greeted excitedly.  Something that a kid in school could code in a day.  I again will use the James Proctor example.  So far, there has been nothing demonstrated that I feel James Proctor (of Greedmonger/Rise of Heroes fame) could not have done in a few weeks time (artwork aside).

    Honestly, the best part about this domain selection is that it gives another opportunity for griefing.  If/when people start selecting settlements in some other group's "chosen area" it should make for a fun time.
    OK gonna sound like a dick for two minutes here so please excuse me. 

    I am assuming you have a working example of a map generator involving weather dynamics, water tables, weather systems, biomes (including transitional biomes) , flora, fauna, settlement and natural resource placements?

    Otherwise how can you say its easy? 

    Also until its proven otherwise I will take him at his word, because I follow evidence not subjective (even based on previous actions)

    If it's wrong when we get to D&SS then I will happily slate him.
    <snip>
    One minor issue for you to consider.  How many games feature a random map generator?  The Civilization series might probably be the most well-known examples.  This appears to be a one-time only generation of the map/world.  This is probably the easiest part of any game, creating the physical landscape of the world.  Populating the world with NPCs, generating story lines and dialog, incorporating lore/culture into the world -- that's what takes time.

    How much does weather dynamics, water tables, et al, affect the player's in game experience?  I doubt it will.  I can't see this line of gibberish as anything but that, more gibberish to try to 'sell' this concept as unique and original.  Really, couldn't a single artist have manually built a functional and realistic landscape that incorporated all of this gibberish in this time?

    There is subjective or conjectural evidence on both sides of the equation. 



    Slapshot1188Gdemami

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,888
    "Playable" doesn't sound very encouraging...Even the most basic early access games are playable.
    Slapshot1188
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