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What Could Be "New & Innovative" In An MMORPG?
AlBQuirky
Member EpicPosts: 7,432
As I read through "The Pub" here, I see a lot posts about how the MMO genre is stale, how it needs a shot of innovation. One such post (I hope you don't mind me using this to kick off another thread, @Pher0cious):
leads me to ask, What could be made innovative?
How innovative can combat be made? (It's the number one activity in MMOs today.)
How innovative can raiding be made? (End game combat.)
How innovative can crafting be made?
How innovative can exploration be made?
Or do we just need new and innovative activities?
What specifically do posters imagine when they say "New & Innovative?" Easy words to say/type, but more difficult to pin down exactly what they imagine. I'm curious to see what people mean when they say the phrase, "New and Innovative."
Pher0cious said:Blizzard's time has passed. Maybe a Witcher MMO by CD Projekt RED, if they can replicate what blizzard did in 2004. It can't be a classic mmo formula. It needs to be new and innovative.
leads me to ask, What could be made innovative?
How innovative can combat be made? (It's the number one activity in MMOs today.)
How innovative can raiding be made? (End game combat.)
How innovative can crafting be made?
How innovative can exploration be made?
Or do we just need new and innovative activities?
What specifically do posters imagine when they say "New & Innovative?" Easy words to say/type, but more difficult to pin down exactly what they imagine. I'm curious to see what people mean when they say the phrase, "New and Innovative."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Comments
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I read that phrase and wonder how many different ways can one swing a sword or shoot a gun? Or combine part a with part b and make item z?
I'm curious to see what people mean when they say, "New and Innovative."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Can't take quest leveling or mob leveling. Just as well play MMO lite without the bullshit that comes with MMORPG. Give me class quest to gain abilities.
I want to see development of procedural questing.
Large world with strong town building tools. Not just plopping houses.
As in its either too many people can do the same thing or that end game items sell for less than their components/raw materials. Usually both.
There isnt a single MMO that I can think of where raw mats and just grinding shit isnt more profitable than actually being able to make and sell something made from them.
Any developer that can figure that out will be the first.
And the only way to do it is to have some sort of extremely in depth first come first serve type crafting system with a hundred or more different skins/designs and/or traits to accommodate all the people specializing in a particular crafting area. But they would also have to figure out how to make every one of those styles or designs or traits relevant. Which would also depend on their combat and 'build' systems. If some guy specializes in clown style fudge factory trait more than likely no one is going to want to buy it anyway. (other than collectors who might want to collect from every style combination and/or grand master (or whatever) weapon or armor maker there is) So figuring out how to make clown style with a fudge factory trait worth having on a weapon would be necessary as well.
Which also goes hand and hand with economy. Figuring out gold sinks in conjunction with gold faucets is another big one not many have figured out. A few have but then they broke it when they started getting too casual friendly.
but in the end the biggest thing any MMO has to figure out is time versus whatever. Trying to keep the equilibrium between 'no lifers' who can play 20 hours a day and those with lives who might only play 4 or 5 hours a week. WoW sort of did it with time locks and gated raids. But even that wasnt the best system. As their raiding system also created a sub sector of 'elitism'.
Some games have done some systems extremely well. I made a list not too long ago. On what I thought the best options for each thing I listed were. Any developer could look at these games and jot down a similar list and then try and put it into their game. Assuming no copyright stuff (which I doubt exists in most cases).
Lotro music system (player made music) with all the instruments and the add ons that let people play alone or even in a band. Extremely cool. A must have for any MMO that is serious about RPG and having things a community can do other than 'raiding' or PvP . Lotros phased progression was OK but I am sure a better system could be put in place now. Where you find abandoned ruins and through quests or deeds you can rebuild it. Can be on a personal level or even server wide.
MMMOs havent even scratched the surface of how in depth and awesome they can be. Even games like the Witcher and Fall out and any other extremely in depth RPG made into an MMO still could be improved. We see that with mods and add ons for those games all the time, and even those are limited in a lot of ways.
So while MMOs are dead they died before they even got out of infancy basically.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
where they run over that ship with the MG? sucks this game will be impossible to do without pw2 at this point i guess (well, actually it is pay 2 develop, and i don't think you can balance all that spend money on ships anymore)
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
This would make leveling feel more meaningful rather than just a number going up from grinding mobs. It would feel more believable that your character really has grown and become stronger. Also, the idea that level is expressed through a number feels outdated to me. I feel like titles could be a new more interesting way to express "level". ex) Noob Sephiroth19384 has grown to become Journeyman Sephiroth19384 !!!
2. Unique builds: The toughest thing with mmo's imo is balancing skill uniqueness/customization with overall balance. Even when tons of customization is given, skill builds always devolve into the best cookie cutter builds. In solo games, you don't have to compete with others so there's more room for unique builds, but it's the opposite for mmo's. I don't have a solution for this, but if someone develops a way to have tons of customization for skills while also having good balance, then this would be a game changer.
Mend and Defend
I do a LOT of reading,a lot of listening/watching people in this industry work and i draw a conclusion based off all of it.The dude on this masquerade reveal kind of pointed to it and is one of the reasons the industry is stale.He mentions that before you start you have to have a workable foundation that has room for error and change.There lies the problem because the "foundations"that we have to draw from are almost identical from game to game,so every NEW game that starts up uses the exact same foundation.
Then these devs look for people related to their work,also evident in this Masquerade reveal,they brought back some people from the past venture ,making it easier to all have the same vision however his can also mean LESS creativity.
people in this thread can list sections of game development to change which imop is EVERYTHING but nobody including myself could properly explain design ideas,it takes a lot of work and thought and description.A GOOD producer also needs to run ideas by other qualified people to get feedback BEFORE anything starts.Perhaps yet ANOTHER problem area because often a Producer is brought on AFTER the ideas are already in place.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
EA is a prime example of that, fucking games over since WAR.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
What often happens is you have the MONEY people,like a CEO of a business or investors all the input from likely all the wrong people.Example Blizzard wants to make a new game,1-2 people at the top get together and decide what direction.They decide ok the Battle Royale market is open,we don't have a game there so let's make one.
You see that just encourages a flooded market of copy cat games and NO CARE for designing a passionate game,one you want to play yourself but is only targeting a market.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Also, another thing I rarely see is the necessity of jumping. How come all the land/dungeons is magically navigable? Why can't there be sections where you'd have options on how to progress? Say; building a bridge, platforming, climbing and whatnot.
To me, some games don't portray realistic scenarios just to make them easier for the user to experience. Which in turn (for me) makes them less suspenseful and memorable.
Also, labeling accurately would be very new and innovative.
Unique builds is a tricky one, I agree. The cookie-cutter/flavor of the month builds are the players gaming the system. If a game "balances everything out", then the vanilla blandness creeps in. A Cleric or Doctor should be he best healers. A Warrior should be the best general melee character. When you start trying to balance everything, your system loses all flavor, in my opinion. It's what has happened in the classless games today.
I'm a proponent of classes and differences, by the way
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I've seen this a few times and wonder, how does a world change with hundreds or thousands of players exerting their force upon it, sometimes simultaneously? EQ Next, with its voxels boasted such, but no one (any?) ever played that system, unless EQ Next: Landmark (the player creation part that many took part in) showed a bit of that.
Or you looking more at things like politics and nation/area relations?
I'm not poo-pooing the ideas. I'm genuinely curious how it would work with "massive" amounts of players without massive abuse
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
(I especially like the Dragon and Vikings scenarios
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.