World of Warcraft: Classic Will be Split Into Six Phases Starting with Onyxia & Molten Core - MMORPG

SBFord · March 2019

World of Warcraft: Classic Will be Split Into Six Phases Starting with Onyxia & Molten Core - MMORPG.com

When World of Warcraft: Classic launches this summer, it will be parsed out into six phases, up from the original four when it was announced. The decision to divide it differently came as a result of inner "deliberations" and based on player feedback. "Were aiming to capture what it felt like to play in a realm community in original WoW. To do that, we're planning to mirror the approach taken by original WoW through patch 1.2.x," the latest community update reads.

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Psychos1s · March 2019

Wonder if they're gonna keep the BWL attune quests, still got my drakefire talisman after all these years and my Onyxia scale cloak. after the absolute trek I had to do find Rexxar can't bring myself to throw em away.

lahnmir · March 2019

nvm.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Halibrand · March 2019

This looks pleasing to me. I'm excited for Classic launch!

The only thing I worry about is if there will be PvE and PvP servers like old, or if they will have the all-the-same servers like they do now where getting flagged phases you into a PvP phase, because of their use of modern infrastructure. If this is true, PvE players will be very screwed, without some major changes, because in Vanilla WoW not only does accidentally buffing an NPC flag you for PvP, or healing an escort NPC, but a lot of regular leveling quests flag you as well. This will create ganking hotspots for griefers to gather, and will essentially make all servers in to PvP servers anyway, just really weird with all the people phasing in and out.

wormed · March 2019

Psychos1s said:

Wonder if they're gonna keep the BWL attune quests, still got my drakefire talisman after all these years and my Onyxia scale cloak. after the absolute trek I had to do find Rexxar can't bring myself to throw em away.

Of course they would. Why would they change attunement? I think people should rest assured that the Classic team is very much striving to emulate legit Vanilla WoW as best as possible. PvE/PvP servers, in my opinion, are almost a given. The backlash for their current server atrocity would be massive.

Kyleran · March 2019

What would be great is if they could name the classic servers after their forebears, i.e. Kel Thuzad Classic, so old PVP rivalries could be reestablished.

wormed · March 2019

Kyleran said:

What would be great is if they could name the classic servers after their forebears, i.e. Kel Thuzad Classic, so old PVP rivalries could be reestablished.

I sincerely hope so as well. I am a KT alumni myself. Would definitely return.

mallettjt · March 2019

I hope they go the osrs route rather than just follow until lich king. Do new content in the vanilla style. Release Grim Batol as a new mega dungeon similar to DM or Mdin. Do dragon isles as new raid zone similar to ZG. Add new sets that enhance specs that aren't "meta." Things like that, no Summon stones, no lfg/lfr, no huge catch up mechanics such as rep requirement decreases. More unique interactions like corrupted ashbringer in SM. This is what I want from classic.

Tamanous · March 2019

So glad they are listening. This is going to be good.

I'm guessing when they decide pvp schedule that it won't be too far off from expectations.

lokiiET · March 2019

I wonder if they are going to release at 1.2.x patch but just block the raids and release over time. I hope they don't. The talent changes will make the early content much much easier... as shown in private servers.

Tamanous · March 2019

lokiiET said:

I wonder if they are going to release at 1.2.x patch but just block the raids and release over time. I hope they don't. The talent changes will make the early content much much easier... as shown in private servers.

It's just a guess at how the difficulty will play out. As far as I know, they are launching with 16 debuff slots instead of 8 too. They may already be tweaking difficulty due to that alone. I don't feel Blizzard cares about emulating the original Classic difficulty because much of that was caused by the class builds themselves and emulating talent and class progression would be a special level of hell for both the developer and player.

All just guesses until the public can get in a test or they confirm through their own raid testing prior to release.

Personally I am perfectly OK with that. I HATED 8 slot debuffs. It an original technical limitation and not by design. Certain specs can likely get into raids from MC forward now (still likely not within some progression guilds I'd bet, at least early on).

I suspect the pvp patch will not be shocking. I'd bet they are trying to decide if to even bother with both pvp set versions or just try and add the updated set at a logical time. I wouldn't care if it's later than normal. I HATE the honor system and it's impact on the game, but that mostly only affects pvp servers. If the double grind for honor for both sets exists then that would suck as well.

BruceYee · March 2019

My GM on Proudmoore during vanilla spoke with Blizz devs regularly about various subjects but one that I'll never forget is that before TBC was completed they did not intend to raise the level cap. They were going to stay at 60 so vanilla stuff could be used forever but then decided to raise levels as a selling point. The majority of my guild including GM quit at TBC cause they felt lied to but that's another story. I wonder if they are thinking of going down that path and continue development how they originally planned after phase 6. I wouldn't be opposed to them creating content past phase 6 as long as they don't change anything that makes vanilla vanilla.

Tamanous · March 2019

BruceYee said:

My GM on Proudmoore during vanilla spoke with Blizz devs regularly about various subjects but one that I'll never forget is that before TBC was completed they did not intend to raise the level cap. They were going to stay at 60 so vanilla stuff could be used forever but then decided to raise levels as a selling point. The majority of my guild including GM quit at TBC cause they felt lied to but that's another story. I wonder if they are thinking of going down that path and continue development how they originally planned after phase 6. I wouldn't be opposed to them creating content past phase 6 as long as they don't change anything that makes vanilla vanilla.

I agree. TBC was "well designed content" for the most part. It sort of plays as it's own decent MMORPG ... BUT the massive gear leap was the very 1st MAJOR design error Blizzard made moving forward.

It set the stage for the decline of Wow. This is why, outside of 100% no change purists, even those defending the launch of Classic as "no change", often speak of lateral or horizontal content additions at a later possible date.

I'd go as far as saying the majority of players in original Classic, expected the game to add more horizontal content. Most Classic guilds disbanded or were split due to TBC changes. The same thing occurred during each expansion because each expansion was basically it's own new game.

This issue alone; the increased vertical scaling, the increased focus on raiding, the diminishing important of previous content, etc, began the fall of Wow (even before the true impact of micro-transactions was felt). It has lead us back to this point. A point where old players and even many new ones, realize the original game design was better and later version diverged too far from it's design principles.

Tamanous · March 2019

Torval said:

It sounds like they're trying to replicate the release experience and not just the server. I think that's a mistake. It's purely for time sink purposes, but maybe people won't care. I think it's a risk because a lot of people are going to burn out on "classic" mechanics and it's better to keep them going for as long as possible rather than expect them to return for a patch. They won't, or rather a smaller percentage will return each patch.

If the server is popular enough to justify the expense, they should take off with the idea of adding future content with the vanilla level cap in place. Even then it's risky. It's no longer classic. It's modified, which is just what xpacs are, modified vanilla game. Whatever they do when people get bored and restless, they should consider what they add and change carefully. Taking things away doesn't work and you can't "undo" big changes without freaking players out.

I don't understand where you are getting this opinion from. This is closer to how private servers release content and it's a proven model. Why? because of function and historic reference.

Blizzard has a very small team trying to put this out. Don't expect too much at this point.

Tamanous · March 2019

parrotpholk said:

Torval said:

It sounds like they're trying to replicate the release experience and not just the server. I think that's a mistake. It's purely for time sink purposes, but maybe people won't care. I think it's a risk because a lot of people are going to burn out on "classic" mechanics and it's better to keep them going for as long as possible rather than expect them to return for a patch. They won't, or rather a smaller percentage will return each patch.

If the server is popular enough to justify the expense, they should take off with the idea of adding future content with the vanilla level cap in place. Even then it's risky. It's no longer classic. It's modified, which is just what xpacs are, modified vanilla game. Whatever they do when people get bored and restless, they should consider what they add and change carefully. Taking things away doesn't work and you can't "undo" big changes without freaking players out.

I do not for a second believe they are trying to replicate the pure experience personally. I think they have run out of time and do not have the rest of the content ready to go. There is zero reason to not release the server complete and put it in maintenance mode then move the team to the live game or other projects.

I do wonder what they time gate will look like for each release. Grinding was the quicker way to level back then but even grinding took hunters somewhere around 9 days played to get to 60. The raids will also play differently than what people have grown accustomed to over time so unless you ran them back in the day, they will take longer to clear as well due to attunements to enter plus grinding out fire resist sets for MC or nature for initial AQ runs. I will be very interested how they do this but still think they have just run out of time.

Umm, you both are completely wrong.

Progressive content is how private servers do it. Why? Because it reflects the content progression of original Classic. CONTENT ... OVER ... TIME.

You CAN'T put all content out at once. It has absolutely nothing to do with what has been completed or not. The game does not function if you put all gated, tiered content in the game at launch. Classic is NOT just a raiding game. That's it's entire draw.

Slapshot1188 · March 2019

Original WoW was a lot of fun... Not sure if I can convince the old gang to get back together for it though.

pratt12200 · March 2019

Remember stupid bears, get in the back and heal!!!!

vtravi · March 2019

I have been playing Vanilla on and off for the last year. I absoutley love it. My intriduction to MMO's was Lotro. I played it for about 5 straight years with trying any other games. After the F2P disaster that destroyed everything I loved about the game, I went to Wow. This was during the Lich King expac. I didn't like it that much but hung around for a few years never really feeling part of the game like I did Lotro. I still play live Wow from time to time just out of boredom and it gives me something to do...

I decided to give these private servers a try and see if I like the Vanilla version. I absoutley love it.
I love that leveling is hard ( I die many times before level 10)
I love that while leveling gear makes a big difference (Getting a big weapon upgrade at level 11 will change your life for about 10 ingame hours)
I love that dungeons are huge and take hours to complete.
I love the huge world that you have to walk everywhere at first( No portals, no Flight Paths until you discover them)
I love that the classes are completely different and unique.
I love that the AH is active and even at low levels you can sell items you get or craft
I absoloutey love that there are group quests all over the place. This was the biggest thing I missed about Lotro. I had so much fun doing group quests. Wow's Group quests aren't as interesting as Lotro's but I am thrilled they are there.
Maybe the biggest thing NO DUNGEON FINDER AND NO CROSS SERVER!!!!!

Things I don't like:
Hate is not a strong enough word for how I feel about World PvP. I dispise it!! If it is a fresh server then I can see the benefit but trying to do lvl 15 quests with lvl 60's ganking is the worst. Classic will have PvE servers Thank God!
The crafting is super basic. I am a crafter at heart and will craft alot in Classic but it isn't great.
Boss mechanics are super simple, at least early on. I haven't raided.
I wish the Pally tank was more functional. I like the fact that it is wonky but if I just had a Taunt!!

Thats about it. I am trying not to play too much because I don't want to get burnt out before classic. I am just trying to find my main. I like all the classes. I can see that people who just started playing Wow since Cata will totally hate it (Just the walking speed will kill them) but I hope it is a huge success.

Tamanous · March 2019

Ya the biggest limitation of private servers is the lack of pve options. The 1 or 2 successful ones shut down long ago and only 200 pop or so ones exist (and mostly just one).

Classic will bring back the huge pve crowd as they demand game stability. It is clear to me that many pvp players lack the capacity to understand the difference between them and pve players. Pve players are there for SOCIAL reasons. Pvp players make endless lists of why world pvp is fun, yet always exclude what is lost by a server being pvp.

They are two sides to the same coin. Pick your side, and leave the other side to enjoy it in their own way. There is no convincing the other to change.

Tamanous · March 2019

Torval said:

Tamanous said:

parrotpholk said:

Torval said:

It sounds like they're trying to replicate the release experience and not just the server. I think that's a mistake. It's purely for time sink purposes, but maybe people won't care. I think it's a risk because a lot of people are going to burn out on "classic" mechanics and it's better to keep them going for as long as possible rather than expect them to return for a patch. They won't, or rather a smaller percentage will return each patch.

If the server is popular enough to justify the expense, they should take off with the idea of adding future content with the vanilla level cap in place. Even then it's risky. It's no longer classic. It's modified, which is just what xpacs are, modified vanilla game. Whatever they do when people get bored and restless, they should consider what they add and change carefully. Taking things away doesn't work and you can't "undo" big changes without freaking players out.

I do not for a second believe they are trying to replicate the pure experience personally. I think they have run out of time and do not have the rest of the content ready to go. There is zero reason to not release the server complete and put it in maintenance mode then move the team to the live game or other projects.

I do wonder what they time gate will look like for each release. Grinding was the quicker way to level back then but even grinding took hunters somewhere around 9 days played to get to 60. The raids will also play differently than what people have grown accustomed to over time so unless you ran them back in the day, they will take longer to clear as well due to attunements to enter plus grinding out fire resist sets for MC or nature for initial AQ runs. I will be very interested how they do this but still think they have just run out of time.

Umm, you both are completely wrong.

Progressive content is how private servers do it. Why? Because it reflects the content progression of original Classic. CONTENT ... OVER ... TIME.

You CAN'T put all content out at once. It has absolutely nothing to do with what has been completed or not. The game does not function if you put all gated, tiered content in the game at launch. Classic is NOT just a raiding game. That's it's entire draw.

I think we're saying the same thing, they're trying to replicate the original progression sequence as close as they can. I never said anything about the raiding game though. Anyway, I think staged releases are a mistake. Maybe it's not a big one. LotRO is doing the same thing and there are drawbacks to the approach, trying to keep people on the same page and normalizing progression. It can suck the momentum out of playing.

Then I don't understand the alternative you want.

You want all content to be out so hardcore progression groups can do all content initially? That is the most destructive thing I could imagine for Classic Wow. The pre-BIS balance must be maintained or it trivializes raiding if better gear enters the game too early. Balance in pvp must be maintained (as far as access to gear goes).

Perhaps I don't understand how you actually want content accessibility. The content progression will be a lot faster than historically. This has already been revealed. A couple patches will be pushed based on the average player progression per server likely though. I hope it's not done over all servers at the same time, although I can see why they may still do that.

Tamanous · March 2019

It's because Classic is a game where every system in the game is interconnected. This is called old school MMORPG design. The primary world, question and dungeon game play for Wow was designed before raiding even entered the designers minds. This is why classes are more rock/paper/scissor than in any other time in Wow. It was a different design philosophy.

If you release dungeon content too early, like Dire Maul, you release content in the game better than MC raid gear. You fuck up the planned progression.

Nearly all content in game, from pvp gear, pre-Best in Slot raiding gear, Raiding gear itself, content gating mechanics, etc, is baked into the progression path.

I'm starting to lose track of our points, but this is the gist of my mine for what it's worth.

vtravi · March 2019

I am now just starting leveling a Druid on a private server. I want to see if I can be a druid Tank. I hear that they are decent at 5 mans, which is all I really care about. If I raid I will switch to heals. So I will try it out before classic comes out.

Kickaxe · March 2019

Tamanous said:

It's because Classic is a game where every system in the game is interconnected. This is called old school MMORPG design. The primary world, question and dungeon game play for Wow was designed before raiding even entered the designers minds. This is why classes are more rock/paper/scissor than in any other time in Wow. It was a different design philosophy.

If you release dungeon content too early, like Dire Maul, you release content in the game better than MC raid gear. You fuck up the planned progression.

Nearly all content in game, from pvp gear, pre-Best in Slot raiding gear, Raiding gear itself, content gating mechanics, etc, is baked into the progression path.

I'm starting to lose track of our points, but this is the gist of my mine for what it's worth.

I feel like your pov on this is puzzling for similar reasons Blizzard's info drop here is puzzling: it seems to emphasize progression beyond reason in a game that ultimately for most of its future existence will be a static vanilla experience where progression, at least on a more global scale, is rendered meaningless.

Admittedly, our understanding of Blizzard's final plans for Classic are likely deficient, and thus maybe we will soon see why this release schedule makes sense. But what you're stating in this thread suggests you have some insight into those plans some of us here lack, Tamanous.

Do you foresee hard resets every cycle of full Vanilla content, or do you think that we will ultimately get the xpacs for Classic? Something else?

Respectfully, Tamanous, I'm just not getting this progression thing cause it seems out of step with just living in the virtual world of vanilla WoW, which is I guess what many of us thought was the primary goal of getting vanilla back.

Tamanous · March 2019

Kickaxe said:

Tamanous said:

It's because Classic is a game where every system in the game is interconnected. This is called old school MMORPG design. The primary world, question and dungeon game play for Wow was designed before raiding even entered the designers minds. This is why classes are more rock/paper/scissor than in any other time in Wow. It was a different design philosophy.

If you release dungeon content too early, like Dire Maul, you release content in the game better than MC raid gear. You fuck up the planned progression.

Nearly all content in game, from pvp gear, pre-Best in Slot raiding gear, Raiding gear itself, content gating mechanics, etc, is baked into the progression path.

I'm starting to lose track of our points, but this is the gist of my mine for what it's worth.

I feel like your pov on this is puzzling for similar reasons Blizzard's info drop here is puzzling: it seems to emphasize progression beyond reason in a game that ultimately for most of its future existence will be a static vanilla experience where progression, at least on a more global scale, is rendered meaningless.

Admittedly, our understanding of Blizzard's final plans for Classic are likely deficient, and thus maybe we will soon see why this release schedule makes sense. But what you're stating in this thread suggests you have some insight into those plans some of us here lack, Tamanous.

Do you foresee hard resets every cycle of full Vanilla content, or do you think that we will ultimately get the xpacs for Classic? Something else?

Respectfully, Tamanous, I'm just not getting this progression thing cause it seems out of step with just living in the virtual world of vanilla WoW, which is I guess what many of us thought was the primary goal of getting vanilla back.

I am largely references the fact that Blizzard is largely emulating what has been done on private servers. They have full private server metrics and feedback available to them as provided by the Nost team.

The reality of running a Classic emulation is the combination of attempting to copy classical progression, because the entire scope of the game is built around this, while adapting to the true game play meta that arises from the very fact that Classic has massive differences from historic hosting of the game.

What we are getting is a near stand alone product, that has clearly been proven by private servers to have a server life cycle. Eventually, once all content is pushed, servers start to die. This means server merging and fresh starts will occur. This is something Blizzard is aware of and planning for.

Old servers that reach Naxx content, can eventually merge together for those still wanting to play content complete Classic. New servers will launch and be packed by those wanting to start again (this is a proven and sustainable model because ALL private server rely on this and still continue to be popular).

If future expansions are made, players can choose to progress or stay in Classic. Blizzard may or may not ever make new content. We have to wait and see.

People need to change their expectations of what Classic currently is. It's nothing more than a massive game, with massive content that is fully expected to be run through ... it just so happens this takes 1.5 years or more. The time line for Classic's progression will be faster than historical. This has already been stated. The gaps between content will be drastically reduced over historic.

Now tell me, what current new game ever drops with 1.5+ years of already developed content?

I know a ton of non-private server players are following this game, but the reality is that Blizzard is using the private server model as their template. They are building the Classic business model based on why private servers even exist. They are pulling direct feedback from private server teams and players in order to build Classic (I'm not suggesting this is a primary or current source. It certainly was a big part of the initial source).

Why? Because Classic would not exist without the popularity of private servers and the current status of their live product. I refer nearly entirely to "bliz-like" vanilla servers.

So yes, I have a unique view point for some, because I am intimately involved in the history of original launch of vanilla Wow, the history of private servers, and the backstory of this whole mess.

deniter · March 2019

It's Dire Maul and Zul'Gurub that are the problem. They both are more or less like catch-up instances and by including them at launch almost every lvl 60 dungeon and a good portion of Molten Core and Blackwing Lair becomes obsolete.

Removing those instances from Classic altogether would make it possible to have all raids in game from a get go but then it wouldn't be classic anymore. We want an authentic experience and those instances were part of the original game.

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