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When it comes to Sandbox MMOs what's some common game design decisions you disagree with?
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,387
Want to get down to the core of what may be holding the MMO sandbox industry back. What's some game design decisions that are common in most Sandbox MMOs that you disagree with or see as an error going forward?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Also, I think a PvE sandbox could work but only if the AI was highly advanced and not just the usual scripted run of the mill stuff we have now. As scripted encounters such as WoW get boring fast, as everyone knows what's going to happen at specific points in fights. Then of course you run the risk of people complaining content is too hard.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Sandboxes are supposed to resemble the real world, right? Well, the real world punishes murder. PvP games usually do not. There should all kinds of areas in the game, like the real world. An area like the Middle East where living until the next day is not a given, thanks to the random violence occurring. Big inner cities with drive by shootings should be represented, too, along with the quiet, more rural small town areas. Now, players have choices, not just some huge open world where murder is the common theme.
More of my thoughts:
Having a working economy does not mean "no content needed." NPC merchants need to be a thing. Otherwise, player merchants may not be online when other players need to visit them. NPC merchants also give more competition, more choices.
I am unsure about "world shaping" as many sandbox players look for. I'm not going to create a city or state to govern. I'm not going to go terraforming any places. I'm certainly not going to be a "leader" of any kind. But I'd still like a living, breathing world that at least feels alive.
Quests: Players don't know the lore of the land. How can they inform other players? NPCs are a necessity, in my eyes. Many sandbox advocates despise NPCs, though, so my opinion carries little weight
Remember, even a real life sandbox is boring without a pail or shovel. In other words, tools
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Sandbox MMOs are sadly lacking in compelling narrative to interest me much. They just seem like half-assed games with that thing that attracts me to a game I would want to spend hours at a time playing for months missing.
As mindless entertainment goes I'd much rather play Tetris than Minecraft any day of the week. And I typically only do that on my phone at the theater while waiting for the pre-movie commercials to be over
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Conan Exiles does a pretty good job of this although I hesitate to call it "massive" and contrary to some peoples opinions Sandbox is well defined, just misused constantly.
I am not saying that all Sandbox MMO's need to start as survival, nor do they need to be PvP, although the latter does add some risk vs reward on a different level, I do not think it is necessary. The best made Sandbox imo thus far has been SWG. And I should say as far as the idea of how a Sandbox, or Sandbox/Themepark Hybrid should work. Three factions (essentially, although the third should have been fleshed out more) plenty of open space to get out and explore and PvP was consensual. You could build entire cities, but there were established cities already, quest hubs etc. You didn't have to do any of them, or you could do all of them. Player driven economy! This is a must, in order to get the people that really enjoy crafting involved.
*NOTE* I am not saying SWG was devoid of issues, it had them, it had many of them! but the design ideas were great, just not realized in a very thought out manner, imo.
So far I do not think anyone has hit the mark on Sandbox design the way SOE did back then. Sadly they mismanaged the hell out of it and killed it because forum warriors kept crying about how hard it was.ikcin said: False. You do not have to have PvP in order for the game to be a sandbox, this is completely false.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Great theory, but why do most virtual worlds in MMO's end up feeling like Somalia or Syria ?
ATITD doesn't really do PvP combat as far as I remember.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
There is no Sandbox Faction PvP MMOs. I would be down for one that went this route.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
No kidding players don't really hit one another, there are some universal assumptions that can be made when discussing games and one of them is: I am not going to come to your house and physically assault you. And thus far, I have not seen anyone cast a fireball (IRL) to solve a problem.
Themeparks can have meaningful PvP as well, WoW is a great example of highly competitive PvP, I competed quite often, therefore, is affected me. I know many others that did as well. We even participated in OWPVP back then. Which by the way only affected my ability to quest and gather materials. So open world PvP didn't really bother me.
Same for SWG, It was an open world sandbox and the PvP didn't prohibit anything. I was just fun to participate in if you chose to.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I've long thought that a PvE sandbox would be very successful - I envision it being set in a frequently-raided border territory where the object of the game is to cooperate with other players to manage frontier forts and prepare for the next AI raid (perhaps planned and commanded high-level by a human GM), somewhat similarly to 7DtD.
And it can still be a sandbox MMO without PvP. It just focuses fundamentally on the aforementioned development of culture and potential PvE user experience.
Conflict does not have to be predicated on PvP. Even in the case of PvE driven conflict, you can have a variety of user experiences built on more than just the basic things most tend to deliver. The problem is narrow scope of gameplay styles commonly used.
A PvE sandbox MMO is about collaborative user experiences, not competitive, simple as that.