"EA still not being able to make the right choices when it comes to an online title."
This is such a hypocritical statement.
First people criticize EA for having loot box in battlefront 2. Then the same people plays and praises apex legend, with loot boxes. What does this tell EA? That people are full of s**t.
Wut?
So you are comparing a full priced game with loot boxes which initially contains power ups and a f2p title with cosmetic loot boxes. I don't think you understand what hypocritical means...
Counter question. Is it normal or healthy to view every game you play or every purchase you make as a consumer's rights debate? Should you be made to feel guilty or responsible for everything you do because someone else (or even a lot of someones) consider that to be contributing to a problem?
IMO? Yes.
I don't think in the long-term, rewarding poor or greedy business practices helps the industry. Which in turn, hurts both sides of the debate. We, as gamers, should be putting our interests ahead of "AAA" studios, not the other way around.
Think about how tech has changed, lessons learned from past releases over a decade. Has quality gone up or has it gone down?
Paying themselves record bonuses doesn't bother me. However, I believe that their profits increase should be a reflection of raising standards, quality, and polish. Not because they released an MVP.
There is so much potential i'm just pretending I'm in a beta.
So do you think paying full price (rewarding them) for a Beta is going to encourage studios to put out better games next time or continue releasing MVP games?
Counter question. Is it normal or healthy to view every game you play or every purchase you make as a consumer's rights debate? Should you be made to feel guilty or responsible for everything you do because someone else (or even a lot of someones) consider that to be contributing to a problem?
@NorseGod is right on this one. I mean I am guilty of buying this game and some MTX for them to say that games like this is okay but that doesn't mean he is wrong. We shouldn't let game studios get away with selling a game that is clearly not finished. Where they strip much of the game out to release later as MTX or content. That isn't good for us. We paid for the game. Its there in the code or however it works. We just can't have it until they are ready.
Is he right on this one? Like, objectively right?
There are so many various business practices in the industry that are questionable and it is up to us personally to decide what is acceptable.
If Norse is "right" on this one, where do we draw the line. If, for example, Torval applied his own standards to everyone else, he would be equally justified in saying that people who play Warframe or Path of Exile (two games he very explicitly name dropped for their cash shops) are hurting the consumer. There are so many players here who view all f2p as anti-consumer. Is it immoral, then, to play those games despite their public protestation?
I view all subscription MMOs as being anti-consumer because that business model no longer justifies itself as an alternative to cash shops (you usually get both). Would I be justified if I said that every WoW player is hurting the industry? Probably not.
He is right because all the games you listed above came out with content and nothing was held back to be released later. Like or not they showed a lot off during those streams that are not present at launch that are being added now or in a later patch for real money or so they have content later to drop. Also Path of Exile and Warframe are F2P I didn't spend $60 on them. No one spent $60 on them unless they choose to. If Warframe or PoE came out for $60 then it would have been a diffrent story.
I have also never personally heard the F2P is anti-consumer. I will have to look into that and get back to you.
Holding stuff back to release later isn't also inherently anti-consumer, if you aren't charging for it.
I would argue that Destiny is more anti-consumer than Anthem because the game was carved up into a MVP and the missing content was sold back to us piece by piece, even in the sequel.
If Anthem wants to parcel out its finished content over time for free, it could be argued that there are legitimate motivators for that. A flood of launch guns results in a select few being popular while others are ignored entirely. The same pool spread out maintains player interest and makes every new gun more noteworthy and more likely to resonate with players. The same can be said for strongholds. A new stronghold is going to be inherently more exciting and noteworthy than it would be crowded out by three other simultaneous strongholds. Hell, Bioware themselves acknowledge this directly by unlocking two strongholds as campaign completion rewards because that is mentally more exciting than it would be if the content you started with was the content you have entirely.
"EA still not being able to make the right choices when it comes to an online title."
This is such a hypocritical statement.
First people criticize EA for having loot box in battlefront 2. Then the same people plays and praises apex legend, with loot boxes. What does this tell EA? That people are full of s**t.
You conveniently left out that Battlefront II cost $60 to even play while Apex Legends is free on the PC. How is hypocritical to have a different standard for how acceptable lootboxes are in a Free-to-play game vs a Fee-to-play game?
"EA still not being able to make the right choices when it comes to an online title."
This is such a hypocritical statement.
First people criticize EA for having loot box in battlefront 2. Then the same people plays and praises apex legend, with loot boxes. What does this tell EA? That people are full of s**t.
Apex Legends, a free to play game, with cosmetic loot boxes != Paid title with usable game content loot boxes.
Bioware teased their game Dragon Age: Inquisition a while back to a knowing and jaded game industry.
People were excited, but calls of Dragon's Dogma suddenly were heard and here we are in early 2019 and this company still exist.
87 hours into Anthem and still loving it but maybe i should listen to you whiner's and quit ? haha piss off
I bet most of the negative people that are bashing anthem never downloaded the open beta
And if you downloaded it and did not like it thats fun just move on with your life we shal not miss you
PS can i have your stuff ?
So people shouldn't be allow to state their thoughts on a clearly broken game. Sure the game is fun but it is far from launch ready. I have seen less bugs testing Crowfall than I have in Anthem in playing for 2 hours.
Every online game that launches has bugs ffs! and as you stated the game is "FUN" I play games that are fun! bugs or not
You can state your thoughs all you like i will play my broken but massively fun game until it's no fun anymore
I don't know what you play games for? maybe you like playing bug free games? i bet your games list is really small
Holding stuff back to release later isn't also inherently anti-consumer, if you aren't charging for it.
If I ordered a pizza online and the delivery boy brought me just the crust with a promise that he will deliver a topping every month over time, I'd be PISSED!
I don't care if they are going to deliver the mushrooms AND onions in May, like they are doing me a favor (wtf?).
That's why MVPs are bad. As if this industry doesn't have enough problems. They are taking advantage of people and that's enough to give them the finger when they do.
Don't worry though, if this newest scam doesn't pan out, they found an entirely new group of sheep to abuse with mobile gaming. "Let's get out of here guys, these gamers expect something in return after giving us $60."
87 hours into Anthem and still loving it but maybe i should listen to you whiner's and quit ? haha piss off
I bet most of the negative people that are bashing anthem never downloaded the open beta
And if you downloaded it and did not like it thats fun just move on with your life we shal not miss you
PS can i have your stuff ?
So people shouldn't be allow to state their thoughts on a clearly broken game. Sure the game is fun but it is far from launch ready. I have seen less bugs testing Crowfall than I have in Anthem in playing for 2 hours.
Every online game that launches has bugs ffs! and as you stated the game is "FUN" I play games that are fun! bugs or not
You can state your thoughs all you like i will play my broken but massively fun game until it's no fun anymore
I don't know what you play games for? maybe you like playing bug free games? i bet your games list is really small
You mistake me. I play Anthem. The game is just broken. I can't play Quickplay, the game crashes often on my xbox, and sometimes my wife laughs at all the crazy bugs that happens and most of the time she doesn't even notice those things. I play lots of games and most of the time I shrug them off. Anthem is something else.
For PS4 users when they exit the game the system is acting like its unplugged and it has to rebuild there hard drive as if it has done so. Thats crazy and there is no excuse for it. No matter how fun the game is.
Yes Quickplay is broken but you don't even have to use it so there is that,
and for all the bugs you are talking about they must be on console as i play in PC and in 87 hours i have crashed maybe 5 times and i just restart the game and rejoin the mission/stronghold i was in no drama no problem.
So for anyone still hanging on to Anthem, I have to question why.
Iron Man. Look and feels of Iron Man. That's new, doesn't exist anywhere else. Better than actual Iron Man games. Makes it fun to shoot things again.
Destiny = Borderlands FPS, been there done that, nothing new.
The Division = Typical cover shooter, been there done that, nothing new.
Warframe = Mass Effect combat, just faster, nothing new. And what is that? What am I looking at? I don't want to look at it. Put it away.
Then the call of duty clones. So so many call of duty clones. Nothing new there.
Well said!
I have no interest for Division 2 for example, played the first one and the second is just more of the same.
Anthem is a bit WIP at the moment, but it has a solid foundation to build on and the devs are listening. It will be interesting to see what the future holds, the kind of gameplay Anthem allows with the Javelins is fun and different from Destiny, The Division and Warframe.
It is randomly causing the console to crash. I've personally had it happen three times. I've also suffered random disconnects (maybe a dozen), and a few weird bugs here and there with audio.
I've probably logged 150 hours in the game so far since it went live. So by and far, the issues have been few and far between.
Flaws, but fixable. Still not taking away from my enjoyment
I didnt notice much flaws (PC) on the release, its only lost connection to their servers once but just dumped me back to the game menu screen. Unlike both the ViP and Open Demo's that they had where it was nigh on rediculous to play due to constant crashing or (vip version) infinite loading screen.
I did not cancel my pre-order simply because i knew several streamers who had access to the full game and they said there was none of that crappy problems with that but these demo versions they put are are stupid. I know it caused several players to cancel.
As for the PS4 issue, I heard about that hard crashing their PS4's and worrying that it could actually kill their console. Apparently it is a known problem according to a report and reply posted by a youtube streamer. However some are able to get refunds whilst others are not, i just made a sarcastic comment of yeah NA users get refunds RoW don't LOL but hey that could be the truth, who knows eh.
Pretty sure I'd just be beating a dead horse with another dead horse at this point to bring up all the ongoing bug reports from users and issues the game has in general.
It is a fun game from the level of "Is the moment to moment action entertaining?", sadly there is a lot of poor design choices and serious errors wrapped around that content, and that needs to be sorted out fast or Anthem will tank. Or...tank more.
I just hope that between Anthem and Desity, it doesnt scare off future developers from pumping time and money into the genre. I enjoy the FPS "MMO Lite" they have going, but I feel it can be much more. Neither company has nailed it yet, but I am hopeful either Bungie, Bioware, or a newcomer will get the formula right.
But do you have a phone?
(never gets old lol)
Well...it does...kinda.
We all need a good smile and a chuckle in the morning
It's never too soon or too much for a little skin bracer in the morning, until they wake up. smack smack
Really? I'd like to see how you validate that statement. Maybe you just haven't played many games with lots of customization?
Name one other game that not only allows you to mix and match armor, but also individually select multiple dye channels for each piece of gear, change textures for multiple components for each piece of gear, select wear/damage states, and then apply insignias on top of that.
"EA still not being able to make the right choices when it comes to an online title."
This is such a hypocritical statement.
First people criticize EA for having loot box in battlefront 2. Then the same people plays and praises apex legend, with loot boxes. What does this tell EA? That people are full of s**t.
While I don't like EA just as much as the next person, I think you're generalizing. People criticized EA for lootboxes in Battlefront II because they played a key role in gameplay... as in, the lootboxes were how you leveled up skills/got weapons. Your progression was total RNG. People aren't giving EA shit about the lootboxes in Apex because they actually used them in such a way that isn't intrusive to the gaming experience and are cosmetic only (and very generously at that, actually), drawing from the use of lootboxes in Overwatch.
Personally, I wish lootboxes were never a thing in general... cosmetic items only or not, but that's not how the gaming world is anymore, so I'm happy to tolerate them in the capacity they exist in games like Apex and Overwatch, which is a total 180 of how they existed in Battlefront II, so you can't compare people complaining about one vs the other because they're totally different.
Really? I'd like to see how you validate that statement. Maybe you just haven't played many games with lots of customization?
Name one other game that not only allows you to mix and match armor, but also individually select multiple dye channels for each piece of gear, change textures for multiple components for each piece of gear, select wear/damage states, and then apply insignias on top of that.
To put that in perspective though. That's the full scope of the game's customization.
Other games with deeper character creation and customization exist. For example we could count up how many categories ESO has for it's character and gear customization and note that, post character creation, it still lets you modify the character's hair, makeup, multiple facial details, tattoo layer, costumes, armor appearance, weapon appearance, dyes with their own material attributes, selecting mounts, pets, skin options, personality sets, etc.
Even Warframe, while lacking material selection, has comparable depth because what it lacks in the customization of frames it doubles up with on operator customization.
BDO also does material modification through the use of dyes with sets each having their own material attributes depending on which sort you'd want to apply.
And technically, while the game is not great, Champions Online lets you select material type on most components alongside a great amount of variety in component visuals and each part having their own color channels. Champs probably still has the largest amount of visual customization of any game still, which is unfortunate that it's bound to the game it is.
The combat, strongholds and gear chase(yeah I know) keep me coming back, however since the "hotfix" it has really dampened my mood on Anthem. When you are 5 minutes into a stronghold and your sound goes out can be pretty annoying but when your halfway done with no sound and randomly you get bugged and cannot pickup any look.. that sucks. Only way to fix it is to log out too. Only thing I have heard is there is a patch coming with will fix this I think next week. Don't think this is just an EA problem but what is with devs putting off fixing game breaking bugs just to lump it in with another patch down the road? Do they not realize the bugs drive people away?
Comments
Wut?
So you are comparing a full priced game with loot boxes which initially contains power ups and a f2p title with cosmetic loot boxes. I don't think you understand what hypocritical means...
I don't think in the long-term, rewarding poor or greedy business practices helps the industry. Which in turn, hurts both sides of the debate. We, as gamers, should be putting our interests ahead of "AAA" studios, not the other way around.
Think about how tech has changed, lessons learned from past releases over a decade. Has quality gone up or has it gone down?
Paying themselves record bonuses doesn't bother me. However, I believe that their profits increase should be a reflection of raising standards, quality, and polish. Not because they released an MVP.
I would argue that Destiny is more anti-consumer than Anthem because the game was carved up into a MVP and the missing content was sold back to us piece by piece, even in the sequel.
If Anthem wants to parcel out its finished content over time for free, it could be argued that there are legitimate motivators for that. A flood of launch guns results in a select few being popular while others are ignored entirely. The same pool spread out maintains player interest and makes every new gun more noteworthy and more likely to resonate with players. The same can be said for strongholds. A new stronghold is going to be inherently more exciting and noteworthy than it would be crowded out by three other simultaneous strongholds. Hell, Bioware themselves acknowledge this directly by unlocking two strongholds as campaign completion rewards because that is mentally more exciting than it would be if the content you started with was the content you have entirely.
You conveniently left out that Battlefront II cost $60 to even play while Apex Legends is free on the PC. How is hypocritical to have a different standard for how acceptable lootboxes are in a Free-to-play game vs a Fee-to-play game?
Apex Legends, a free to play game, with cosmetic loot boxes != Paid title with usable game content loot boxes.
People were excited, but calls of Dragon's Dogma suddenly were heard and here we are in early 2019 and this company still exist.
LOLZ
Support BIOWARE, you fools!!!!
I don't care if they are going to deliver the mushrooms AND onions in May, like they are doing me a favor (wtf?).
That's why MVPs are bad. As if this industry doesn't have enough problems. They are taking advantage of people and that's enough to give them the finger when they do.
Don't worry though, if this newest scam doesn't pan out, they found an entirely new group of sheep to abuse with mobile gaming. "Let's get out of here guys, these gamers expect something in return after giving us $60."
I have no interest for Division 2 for example, played the first one and the second is just more of the same.
Anthem is a bit WIP at the moment, but it has a solid foundation to build on and the devs are listening. It will be interesting to see what the future holds, the kind of gameplay Anthem allows with the Javelins is fun and different from Destiny, The Division and Warframe.
It is randomly causing the console to crash. I've personally had it happen three times. I've also suffered random disconnects (maybe a dozen), and a few weird bugs here and there with audio.
I've probably logged 150 hours in the game so far since it went live. So by and far, the issues have been few and far between.
Flaws, but fixable. Still not taking away from my enjoyment
Unlike both the ViP and Open Demo's that they had where it was nigh on rediculous to play due to constant crashing or (vip version) infinite loading screen.
I did not cancel my pre-order simply because i knew several streamers who had access to the full game and they said there was none of that crappy problems with that but these demo versions they put are are stupid. I know it caused several players to cancel.
As for the PS4 issue, I heard about that hard crashing their PS4's and worrying that it could actually kill their console. Apparently it is a known problem according to a report and reply posted by a youtube streamer. However some are able to get refunds whilst others are not, i just made a sarcastic comment of yeah NA users get refunds RoW don't LOL but hey that could be the truth, who knows eh.
I don't even play Anthem but all the hate its getting is fucking ridiculous and these "reviews" from morons like this just sum it all up really.
It is a fun game from the level of "Is the moment to moment action entertaining?", sadly there is a lot of poor design choices and serious errors wrapped around that content, and that needs to be sorted out fast or Anthem will tank. Or...tank more.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Really? I'd like to see how you validate that statement. Maybe you just haven't played many games with lots of customization?
Personally, I wish lootboxes were never a thing in general... cosmetic items only or not, but that's not how the gaming world is anymore, so I'm happy to tolerate them in the capacity they exist in games like Apex and Overwatch, which is a total 180 of how they existed in Battlefront II, so you can't compare people complaining about one vs the other because they're totally different.
Other games with deeper character creation and customization exist. For example we could count up how many categories ESO has for it's character and gear customization and note that, post character creation, it still lets you modify the character's hair, makeup, multiple facial details, tattoo layer, costumes, armor appearance, weapon appearance, dyes with their own material attributes, selecting mounts, pets, skin options, personality sets, etc.
Even Warframe, while lacking material selection, has comparable depth because what it lacks in the customization of frames it doubles up with on operator customization.
BDO also does material modification through the use of dyes with sets each having their own material attributes depending on which sort you'd want to apply.
And technically, while the game is not great, Champions Online lets you select material type on most components alongside a great amount of variety in component visuals and each part having their own color channels. Champs probably still has the largest amount of visual customization of any game still, which is unfortunate that it's bound to the game it is.