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Looking for MMORPG with strong grouping

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  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 480
    edited February 23
    Playing Everquest 2 at the moment. Playing a Troubador (ugg, try spelling that after being away). I'm level 17, and /played is 15 hours. So far all my deaths are tied to falling from a height. I've come close to dying to opponents only about once or twice. Opponents are ridiculously easy. The progression is very linear. I don't like that. I have to say i'm somewhat enjoying it anyway because I wnat to see what the later game is like. I played this in 2013 and eventually quit after my Warden reached level 21. I can't remember the exact reasons, but I do recall being angry at the hand holding and neglect towards the lower level experience (they seemed to think speed is all that matters; i was looking for quality). It was the same thing that made me leave Anarchy Online. It seems like devs, when contemplating new players or leveling players, all that's on their mind is how to speed up leveling. I was looking for something deeper than that. I felt ignored. It's like asking for a sedan with better speakers and a brown interior, and they give you a Formula 1 racecar. Speed is the only thing they know.

    My loremaster on LOTRO is level 6 or 7.

    On the subject of CC:

    I'm glad these MMORPGs at least try to have some crowd control. It's sad crowd control has been diminished somewhat over the years. I think the deeper and more varied the roles, the better. That's just my opinion though. I do have a fallback atm. I got a level 86 Enchanter in EQ1.

    I'm contemplating the legendary server in LOTRO or the TLE server being launched in Everquest 2 in March.



  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    madazz said:
    Your gaming history shows a pattern and a truth about modern gaming. Group finder does not make for a strong community. It weakens it. All the games you (op) have played for a lengthy period of time required communication with other players rather than clicking a LFG finder and running through a dungeon/instance as fast as possible.

    Basically, todays games do not support a community unless you create a guild and make your own. And even then, your community revolves around that small one rather than a server wide one like your games from previous years.

    It will be awhile before another game with proper grouping arrives. Who knows how long. Could be a very long time. Many gamers today didn't get to experience what games were like before group finders were introduced. They just know instant gratification which actually cheapens the experience further. Sometimes it was a bummer when people weren't around to do a task you've set out to complete. But that is also why we got to know people back then too. It's what drew us to find others with similar goals and likes. We'd talk to them since we grouped so often.

    Now a days its: Join PUG, run instance, leave PUG, Join PUG, run instance, leave PUG.
    You say communication, i remember spam. I'm sorry but fuck pre-group finder days. Spending over an hour trying to fill a 10man group to do dungeons just to have 1 or 2 key people leave after 1 wipe and waste all that time.

    The spam, my god the never ending spam of people looking for healer or tank or non leather dps in town.

    Game i'm talking about in particular is WoW pre group finder btw.
    Gdemami

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    Sephiroso said:
    madazz said:
    Your gaming history shows a pattern and a truth about modern gaming. Group finder does not make for a strong community. It weakens it. All the games you (op) have played for a lengthy period of time required communication with other players rather than clicking a LFG finder and running through a dungeon/instance as fast as possible.

    Basically, todays games do not support a community unless you create a guild and make your own. And even then, your community revolves around that small one rather than a server wide one like your games from previous years.

    It will be awhile before another game with proper grouping arrives. Who knows how long. Could be a very long time. Many gamers today didn't get to experience what games were like before group finders were introduced. They just know instant gratification which actually cheapens the experience further. Sometimes it was a bummer when people weren't around to do a task you've set out to complete. But that is also why we got to know people back then too. It's what drew us to find others with similar goals and likes. We'd talk to them since we grouped so often.

    Now a days its: Join PUG, run instance, leave PUG, Join PUG, run instance, leave PUG.
    You say communication, i remember spam. I'm sorry but fuck pre-group finder days. Spending over an hour trying to fill a 10man group to do dungeons just to have 1 or 2 key people leave after 1 wipe and waste all that time.

    The spam, my god the never ending spam of people looking for healer or tank or non leather dps in town.

    Game i'm talking about in particular is WoW pre group finder btw.
    That is why people made constant groups. But it was more important in the groups focused games. I never spammed in L2, as I had a clan. Random groups are promoted from games where the multiplayer content is peripheral - like instant dungeons. 
    Gdemami
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    ikcin said:
    Sephiroso said:
    madazz said:
    Your gaming history shows a pattern and a truth about modern gaming. Group finder does not make for a strong community. It weakens it. All the games you (op) have played for a lengthy period of time required communication with other players rather than clicking a LFG finder and running through a dungeon/instance as fast as possible.

    Basically, todays games do not support a community unless you create a guild and make your own. And even then, your community revolves around that small one rather than a server wide one like your games from previous years.

    It will be awhile before another game with proper grouping arrives. Who knows how long. Could be a very long time. Many gamers today didn't get to experience what games were like before group finders were introduced. They just know instant gratification which actually cheapens the experience further. Sometimes it was a bummer when people weren't around to do a task you've set out to complete. But that is also why we got to know people back then too. It's what drew us to find others with similar goals and likes. We'd talk to them since we grouped so often.

    Now a days its: Join PUG, run instance, leave PUG, Join PUG, run instance, leave PUG.
    You say communication, i remember spam. I'm sorry but fuck pre-group finder days. Spending over an hour trying to fill a 10man group to do dungeons just to have 1 or 2 key people leave after 1 wipe and waste all that time.

    The spam, my god the never ending spam of people looking for healer or tank or non leather dps in town.

    Game i'm talking about in particular is WoW pre group finder btw.
    That is why people made constant groups. But it was more important in the groups focused games. I never spammed in L2, as I had a clan. Random groups are promoted from games where the multiplayer content is peripheral - like instant dungeons. 
    Pre-group finder WoW was very much NOT a game where multiplayer content was merely peripheral. Yet there was still a bunch of spam. There was a bunch of spam in FFXI as well. So your comment is factually untrue as FFXI did not have instant dungeons yet still had the spam of people LFG/LFM.

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,206
    Sephiroso said:
    Pre-group finder WoW was very much NOT a game where multiplayer content was merely peripheral. Yet there was still a bunch of spam. There was a bunch of spam in FFXI as well. So your comment is factually untrue as FFXI did not have instant dungeons yet still had the spam of people LFG/LFM.
    It was a game with 2 factions focused on the solo players, and without any meaningful PvP - so competition, need of cooperation. What multiplayer content? Dungeons. Of course there was spam.  
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,913
    LOTRO new server or FF14
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 480
    edited February 25
    I used to keep informal text-based journals when I played single player games like Eschalon: Book I, Fallout 1, Anachronox, and Baldur's Gate. I want to do that with the MMORPGs I'm playing. The difference now is I want them to be available on the web somehow, and I want to be able to insert screenshots. For example, my character in Everquest 2 is in Frostfang Sea. I'd like to get a screenshot and put that in a journal before I leave for another place and level up more. But what kind of format can do that? I know HTML can do it, but I need somethign can easily (and conveniently) insert pictures into my text. Anybody have suggestion? I can of course start up wordpad and insert pictures, but I can't also copy/paste into a forum without losing the picture(s). Something like a blog, or a format I can easily put in a post so I can share with others if desired. I know hte screenshtos would have to be stored remotely somehow and linked. My number 1 concern is it's easy and essentially thoughtless.

    When I frst started playing MMORPGs, I never did screenshots. I always regretted not doing them, so I started getting in the habit of doing them for single player games and MMORPGs. Now I"m in the habit where I also want to keep a informal journal. Do you see the progression here?
  • FangrimFangrim Member UncommonPosts: 616
    EQ2 is releasing a new TLE server on the 16th of next month. All the gear has been redone to have no blue stats so that the content (in theory) should be harder and experience slower.


    image

  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 480
    edited February 25
    Fangrim said:
    EQ2 is releasing a new TLE server on the 16th of next month. All the gear has been redone to have no blue stats so that the content (in theory) should be harder and experience slower.
    It's on my mind, as well the LOTRO legendary server. I hate it because I don't have infinite time. And I don't want to spend $30 on both per month. Right now I'm more interested in EQ2 because of familiarity. I think I have regrets. Like EQ1, it's filled with--now insignificant--content. But that content is rich and fun to play through, even alone, although I'd rather not be. I dislike how easy soloing is so far--granted I've barely started. Even if I restrict myself to original content on release day, it's still a lot of content to see. Tte true power of TLE servers is to make the cotnent meaningful again, but most of all for people who haven't seen it yet!

    Keep this in mind, I've only seen Frostfang Sea and bits of Qeynos and the nearby Antonica zone. I've only seen one or two of the dungeons in or around there. EQ2 is a new world to explore for me, if I choose to.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • FangrimFangrim Member UncommonPosts: 616
    edited February 25
    Fangrim said:
    EQ2 is releasing a new TLE server on the 16th of next month. All the gear has been redone to have no blue stats so that the content (in theory) should be harder and experience slower.
    It's on my mind, as well the LOTRO legendary server. I hate it because I don't have infinite time. And I don't want to spend $30 on both per month. Right now I"m more interested in EQ2, despite all its flaws. I think I regret never trying it in its peak years.

    I got 2 characters to 50 on LOTRO Legendary Server, even though I have a  lifetime sub i just don't log in there anymore. I played EQ2 from Launch to AoM ( late 2004 - 2014) then came back for the first TLE Stormhold. When that finished when they announced a new TLE I stopped again a few months after trying Live for a bit.
    I am debating trying the new TLE but what I really need is a new MMORPG /sigh. I too put all my gameing into a good MMORPG.


    image

  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 480
    edited February 28
    Well I settled on a plan of action couple days ago. I'm going to wait for the EQ2 TLE on March 16th. In the meantime, I'm playing Agnarr, the ldon-locked server in EQ.

    I really liked the idea of doing legendary LOTRO. I might still do that, but that's further down the road now due to my choices.

    On Agnarr I've noticed some changes since I last played live EQ, but I don't feel like expanding on all of it right now.  One thing that really strikes an impression on me is how slow leveling is. I like that though. I don't want to be force leveled and rushed to the next spot. I love to pour through the subtlety of a zone. Zones become like friends. Unfortunately, it's kind of lost on all the POK books. Finding groups is hard in one or two zones, however. You have to do things like "who all 1 3". Even that's tricky bcause of all the offline bazaar players and boxers and twinks. Long story short, EVERY noob starting area is my home because of the POK books, and it's necessary if I want to find groups. Long ago before the POK books, most of us players were essentially anchored to our single home city. That's where we found our group. It was only supportable because population was always incoming, until it wasn't...
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • zanfirezanfire Member UncommonPosts: 951
    If you can hold out for a bit i would look into Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. Its basically doing  a mostly old school style of MMO like EQ. I played FFXI from early on for many years and never found a solid replacement (14 after ARR is like just about everything else now). If you like the group heavy stuff and slower paced combat Pantheon might be worth looking into. I know there is another MMO also trying to jump into the oldschool style, but i forgot the name, i just know it had a few features i didnt like as much since im not big on PVP and whatnot.

    Both games are more indie, but if you look at Pantheon you can tell there is a pretty good effort going into it.
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 480
    edited February 28
    zanfire said:
    If you can hold out for a bit i would look into Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. Its basically doing  a mostly old school style of MMO like EQ. I played FFXI from early on for many years and never found a solid replacement (14 after ARR is like just about everything else now). If you like the group heavy stuff and slower paced combat Pantheon might be worth looking into. I know there is another MMO also trying to jump into the oldschool style, but i forgot the name, i just know it had a few features i didnt like as much since im not big on PVP and whatnot.

    Both games are more indie, but if you look at Pantheon you can tell there is a pretty good effort going into it.
    Most definitely I'm looking forward to Pantheon. Are you referring to Saga of Lucimia? I'm also watching that one. They both look great to my aging eyes.

    Release 11 - A Peek Behind The Curtain:

    EDIT: Maybe you mean Gloria Victus?
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • zanfirezanfire Member UncommonPosts: 951
    zanfire said:
    If you can hold out for a bit i would look into Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. Its basically doing  a mostly old school style of MMO like EQ. I played FFXI from early on for many years and never found a solid replacement (14 after ARR is like just about everything else now). If you like the group heavy stuff and slower paced combat Pantheon might be worth looking into. I know there is another MMO also trying to jump into the oldschool style, but i forgot the name, i just know it had a few features i didnt like as much since im not big on PVP and whatnot.

    Both games are more indie, but if you look at Pantheon you can tell there is a pretty good effort going into it.
    Most definitely I'm looking forward to Pantheon. Are you referring to Saga of Lucimia? I'm also watching that one. They both look great to my aging eyes.

    Release 11 - A Peek Behind The Curtain:

    EDIT: Maybe you mean Gloria Victus?
    Yah Saga of Lucimia was what i was thinking of. Im not sure what put me off more with that vs Pantheon, but it may have changed since i did not keep up with it much. Either way both seem to be going for that style that i loved about MMOs, the focus on groups and community and not single player chat boxes with focus on spamming rotations. 
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,950
    Fangrim said:
    EQ2 is releasing a new TLE server on the 16th of next month. All the gear has been redone to have no blue stats so that the content (in theory) should be harder and experience slower.
    I love and miss EQ2.  But I could never play it again, hers why:
    - EASY, the game has fallen into the hands of easy mode game play like modern.
    - WORLD IS A MESS, dis-jointed world with all the expansions.  It's a jig saw puzzle of confusion.

    So... If they fix the EASY it will still be a WORLD MESS.  Sad to say, but the game is forever gone with no chance of recovery :(
    Hawkaya399
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,950
    Legends of Aria, 
    Some would say i'm biased because I'm actively hyping and playing it.  BUT that's not the case here, it truly is strong grouping. 

    I've been afraid to leave the safe zones for about a week and just now joined a Guild to wander the world with.  A lot of very interesting stuff out there that I'm about to find with my new friends:)
    Hawkaya399
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,674
    Legends of Aria, 
    Some would say i'm biased because I'm actively hyping and playing it.  BUT that's not the case here, it truly is strong grouping. 

    I've been afraid to leave the safe zones for about a week and just now joined a Guild to wander the world with.  A lot of very interesting stuff out there that I'm about to find with my new friends:)

    Interesting definition for friends you have there.

    They are just temporary online folks who will ghost you in the blink of an eye.

    Unless you know them IRL - I wouldn't consider them friends, just my 2c
    Caffynateddelete5230
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,203
    DMKano said:
    Legends of Aria, 
    Some would say i'm biased because I'm actively hyping and playing it.  BUT that's not the case here, it truly is strong grouping. 

    I've been afraid to leave the safe zones for about a week and just now joined a Guild to wander the world with.  A lot of very interesting stuff out there that I'm about to find with my new friends:)

    Interesting definition for friends you have there.

    They are just temporary online folks who will ghost you in the blink of an eye.

    Unless you know them IRL - I wouldn't consider them friends, just my 2c
    Ignore DMKano, he is a cynic when it comes to meaningful player interaction in MMOs. This is like saying someone you meet on social media cannot be a friend. Will they always be there for you, well will you always be playing that game? Will the guild play other games you end up playing?

    Mainly the people I have known in MMOs are game specific but I would still call them friends, some in guilds I have known for more than fifteen years, some met in RL, just how the chips fall.

    Friendship has changed since the days of Tom Sawyer, we meet few people in RL we know for the rest of our lives. Though the internet may mean you can keep up with them, even if you don't want to in fact. :)
    delete5230Hawkaya399Kyleran

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,913
    edited March 2
    DMKano said:
    Legends of Aria, 
    Some would say i'm biased because I'm actively hyping and playing it.  BUT that's not the case here, it truly is strong grouping. 

    I've been afraid to leave the safe zones for about a week and just now joined a Guild to wander the world with.  A lot of very interesting stuff out there that I'm about to find with my new friends:)

    Interesting definition for friends you have there.

    They are just temporary online folks who will ghost you in the blink of an eye.

    Unless you know them IRL - I wouldn't consider them friends, just my 2c
    Wait one second Kano there is thread from very recent if you want ill go thru your history where you are boasting of your 15 year gaming friend s, you even go into detail describing ther occupation , I also have a group of friends ive been with since AO and soem from UO over 20 years .. 
     People make friends all the time thru gaming , really takes little effort
      
    Scotsquibbly
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 480
    edited March 3
    Fangrim said:
    EQ2 is releasing a new TLE server on the 16th of next month. All the gear has been redone to have no blue stats so that the content (in theory) should be harder and experience slower.
    I love and miss EQ2.  But I could never play it again, hers why:
    - EASY, the game has fallen into the hands of easy mode game play like modern.
    - WORLD IS A MESS, dis-jointed world with all the expansions.  It's a jig saw puzzle of confusion.

    So... If they fix the EASY it will still be a WORLD MESS.  Sad to say, but the game is forever gone with no chance of recovery :(
    Woah, get ready delete. This is a long post. Take it in. Get some coffee if you have to. Don't rush it. This is delicate. For real.

    Your words are true, but you're wrong about this in one regard: the TLP servers. These're time-locked progression servers. This means it starts with original content and  stays there for 8-12 weeks, before moving to the next expansion. This means the "jig saw puzzle" is less confusing because you can't get lost in several different expansions in one night. I complained about this in 2013 when I first played Everquest 2. The other thing, about it being easy, while true, is less true with TLP, since some of the features in the later expansion won't be available until those expansions are released. For example, on the ldon-locked Agnarr server in EQ1, we don't have mercenaries. It'll stay that way too  because Agnarr is locked at LDON indefinitely. This means it's harder to solo. We also don't have defiant gear, which would obsolete almost all of the prior gear/quests available to groupers. Defiant gear was released sometime in 2007 during the Secrets of Faydwer expansion. So at least for the process of leveling, the end result is it's much more group-based, and hence, a bit harder in general.

    It releases on March 16. Time-locked progression will look something like this, give or take some week(s) between releases, meaning the time to Destiny of Velious could be pushed back to late 2020 or early 2021:
    March 16 - Shattered Lands - original content
    June 1 - Desert of Flames
    August 8 - Kingdom of Sky
    October 12 - Echoes of Faydwer
    December 20 - Rise of Kunark
    February 15 2020 - The Shadow Oddysey
    April 10 2020 - Sentinel's Fate
    July 25 2020 - Destiny of Velious
    .... the rest of the expansions
    Chains of Eternity
    Tears of Veeshan
    Altar of Malice
    Terrors of Thalumbra
    Kunark Ascending
    Planes of Prphecy
    Chaos Descending

    I would prefer a EQ2 server perma locked at Shatterend lands or maybe Rise of Kunark? I think it'd help make the game more coherent--to prevent the growing jigsaw puzzle confusion you mention. It'd probably also make it more of a group-based MMORPG. Regardless, I plan to commit some time.

    But really I don't know anything about EQ2 beyond a couple zones, so it's hard for me to say when it became more solitary or confusing.

    And delete, I really like this writer. She's the EQ2 vet at mmogames:
    *** Why Everquest 2 is dying (March 2017):

    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
  • UtinniUtinni Member RarePosts: 1,244
    If you want to play older eq and actually do endgame check out takp server. Raids are rotated amongst the guilds there. 

    Aren't really many grouping games left around unless you want a themepark.
    Hawkaya399Scot
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,556
    edited March 3
    DMKano said:
    Legends of Aria, 
    Some would say i'm biased because I'm actively hyping and playing it.  BUT that's not the case here, it truly is strong grouping. 

    I've been afraid to leave the safe zones for about a week and just now joined a Guild to wander the world with.  A lot of very interesting stuff out there that I'm about to find with my new friends:)

    Interesting definition for friends you have there.

    They are just temporary online folks who will ghost you in the blink of an eye.

    Unless you know them IRL - I wouldn't consider them friends, just my 2c
    By my definition "friends" are willing to take a bullet for you or vice versa, or loan you money with no real expectation of being paid back, everyone else is just an "acquaintance"

    I don't have all that many friends....

    ;)
    Scot

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,950
    edited March 3
    Kyleran said:
    DMKano said:
    Legends of Aria, 
    Some would say i'm biased because I'm actively hyping and playing it.  BUT that's not the case here, it truly is strong grouping. 

    I've been afraid to leave the safe zones for about a week and just now joined a Guild to wander the world with.  A lot of very interesting stuff out there that I'm about to find with my new friends:)

    Interesting definition for friends you have there.

    They are just temporary online folks who will ghost you in the blink of an eye.

    Unless you know them IRL - I wouldn't consider them friends, just my 2c
    By my definition "friends" are willing to take a bullet for you or vice versa, or loan you money with no real expectation of being paid back, everyone else is just an "acquaintance"

    I don't have all that many friends....

    ;)
    Do we have to be that critical here ?
    It's not like were asking guild members to suck snake venom from our private parts in real life.  But simply a group of new friends to play the game together.


    They seem very friendly, and "little more" than acquaintancy.... Then again they may be setting me up to bring me deep into the games black forest and running away.  And I'll be in game dead  :s

    @Kyleran ;
    Maybe you would have more friends if they stop taking bullets for you.  Friends don't last too long with you, do they ? 
    Post edited by delete5230 on
    KyleranPalebane
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 566
    edited March 3
    Kyleran said:
    DMKano said:
    Legends of Aria, 
    Some would say i'm biased because I'm actively hyping and playing it.  BUT that's not the case here, it truly is strong grouping. 

    I've been afraid to leave the safe zones for about a week and just now joined a Guild to wander the world with.  A lot of very interesting stuff out there that I'm about to find with my new friends:)

    Interesting definition for friends you have there.

    They are just temporary online folks who will ghost you in the blink of an eye.

    Unless you know them IRL - I wouldn't consider them friends, just my 2c
    By my definition "friends" are willing to take a bullet for you or vice versa, or loan you money with no real expectation of being paid back, everyone else is just an "acquaintance"

    I don't have all that many friends....

    ;)
    A friend is just a person that you know and like, and who also likes you in a platonic sense. 

    There's no need to overcomplicate things.
    delete5230
  • DragnelusDragnelus Member EpicPosts: 3,126
    Wow, ffxiv, overwatch

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