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Former Diablo 3 Developer Examines Loot & Rewards in Anthem - MMORPG.com

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  • TheIdealistTheIdealist Member UncommonPosts: 45




    If they will not add pvp this game will die in 3-5 months


    Your really joking right?  The classes are so broken and there is ZERO balance between any of it. PVP would be a dam joke and noone would play it cause you would end up with  some classes unstoppable killing machines. The weapons and random states alone make this something that is not doable alone.  You can make a setup where its all but impossible to die in. I've seen one setup  on youtube where the guy was going through GM1 missions / contracts / ect. one shooting everything.



    And again, if there is no pvp in mmo game like Anthem it will be boring after some months.
    I didn't wrote anything if the game is balanced or not. I just wrote about what happens if any Online game doesn't have pvp.
    alkarionlogRastan1
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,768




    If they will not add pvp this game will die in 3-5 months


    Your really joking right?  The classes are so broken and there is ZERO balance between any of it. PVP would be a dam joke and noone would play it cause you would end up with  some classes unstoppable killing machines. The weapons and random states alone make this something that is not doable alone.  You can make a setup where its all but impossible to die in. I've seen one setup  on youtube where the guy was going through GM1 missions / contracts / ect. one shooting everything.



    And again, if there is no pvp in mmo game like Anthem it will be boring after some months.
    I didn't wrote anything if the game is balanced or not. I just wrote about what happens if any Online game doesn't have pvp.
    That's not true at all. You need content not PvP. PvP is a nice thing to have for people who want it but I can tell you that Destiny PvP wasn't what kept people coming back. Are you really saying people play Warframe for the PvP? Hell no. I don't actually know anyone who has touched PvP in Warframe. 
    Aeander
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    Aeander said:
    I've shelved Anthem until they find a way to make "end game" feel rewarding somehow. Travis Day nailed the problem on the head, though. Once these issues are resolved, I'll consider picking it up again.
    I'm curious about those loot stats. Do mis-matched modifiers on one weapon effect your other weapon? Like if you have a sniper rifle with LMG bonus damage, would that bonus apply to an LMG you have in your other weapon slot?
    I could be wrong, but based on the extended review of angry joe, delirith said they only worked with the weapon itself. So, getting a flamethrower that boosted physical damage was pretty much useless.

    No idea why they made it totally random like that. Makes no sense whatsoever.
    Aeander

  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534
    Bloodaxes said:
    Aeander said:
    I've shelved Anthem until they find a way to make "end game" feel rewarding somehow. Travis Day nailed the problem on the head, though. Once these issues are resolved, I'll consider picking it up again.
    I'm curious about those loot stats. Do mis-matched modifiers on one weapon effect your other weapon? Like if you have a sniper rifle with LMG bonus damage, would that bonus apply to an LMG you have in your other weapon slot?
    I could be wrong, but based on the extended review of angry joe, delirith said they only worked with the weapon itself. So, getting a flamethrower that boosted physical damage was pretty much useless.

    No idea why they made it totally random like that. Makes no sense whatsoever.
    and that is the prob with joe. don't get me wrong, i like him, but his name is program. he is raging WAY too hard

    alkarionlog

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,838
    Thane said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    Aeander said:
    I've shelved Anthem until they find a way to make "end game" feel rewarding somehow. Travis Day nailed the problem on the head, though. Once these issues are resolved, I'll consider picking it up again.
    I'm curious about those loot stats. Do mis-matched modifiers on one weapon effect your other weapon? Like if you have a sniper rifle with LMG bonus damage, would that bonus apply to an LMG you have in your other weapon slot?
    I could be wrong, but based on the extended review of angry joe, delirith said they only worked with the weapon itself. So, getting a flamethrower that boosted physical damage was pretty much useless.

    No idea why they made it totally random like that. Makes no sense whatsoever.
    and that is the prob with joe. don't get me wrong, i like him, but his name is program. he is raging WAY too hard

    I can't even count on Angry Joe to give this type of game a fair review, because he is biased against horde mode content (whereas I love defense missions).
    alkarionlog
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    SBFord said:
    you know things are bad when someone who was working on D3 have to tell you how to fix the game
    There's not a thing wrong with D3's loot and reward systems. They're top notch. The only real thing wrong with D3 is that it's almost 7 years old.

    Let's not forget that Travis Day is now working on Breach. So, yeah. There's that too.
    I've gone back and started playing a lot of D3 lately (Paragon 960 just this season) and I agree that their loot system is top notch.

    The difficulty tiers and increased legendary drops is an excellent risk/reward system and the items you need for builds drop frequently enough that you are pretty well guaranteed to get the drops you're after if you just put in the time.

    But then there is just enough RNG to keep you from getting all perfect drops and enough re-crafting and cube recipes that give you a chance to improve them that it creates incentive to keep going.

    Looters, whether shooters or not, live or die by their loot system.
    Scorchien[Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,838
    Bloodaxes said:
    Aeander said:
    I've shelved Anthem until they find a way to make "end game" feel rewarding somehow. Travis Day nailed the problem on the head, though. Once these issues are resolved, I'll consider picking it up again.
    I'm curious about those loot stats. Do mis-matched modifiers on one weapon effect your other weapon? Like if you have a sniper rifle with LMG bonus damage, would that bonus apply to an LMG you have in your other weapon slot?
    I could be wrong, but based on the extended review of angry joe, delirith said they only worked with the weapon itself. So, getting a flamethrower that boosted physical damage was pretty much useless.

    No idea why they made it totally random like that. Makes no sense whatsoever.
    If true, that is actually a pathetic failure on Bioware's part. 
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    Aeander said:
    Thane said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    Aeander said:
    I've shelved Anthem until they find a way to make "end game" feel rewarding somehow. Travis Day nailed the problem on the head, though. Once these issues are resolved, I'll consider picking it up again.
    I'm curious about those loot stats. Do mis-matched modifiers on one weapon effect your other weapon? Like if you have a sniper rifle with LMG bonus damage, would that bonus apply to an LMG you have in your other weapon slot?
    I could be wrong, but based on the extended review of angry joe, delirith said they only worked with the weapon itself. So, getting a flamethrower that boosted physical damage was pretty much useless.

    No idea why they made it totally random like that. Makes no sense whatsoever.
    and that is the prob with joe. don't get me wrong, i like him, but his name is program. he is raging WAY too hard

    I can't even count on Angry Joe to give this type of game a fair review, because he is biased against horde mode content (whereas I love defense missions).
    Well, I said delirith made the claim not joe. He played over 70 hours and said that he has done everything the game has and got all available items. 

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,838
    Aeander said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    Aeander said:
    I've shelved Anthem until they find a way to make "end game" feel rewarding somehow. Travis Day nailed the problem on the head, though. Once these issues are resolved, I'll consider picking it up again.
    I'm curious about those loot stats. Do mis-matched modifiers on one weapon effect your other weapon? Like if you have a sniper rifle with LMG bonus damage, would that bonus apply to an LMG you have in your other weapon slot?
    I could be wrong, but based on the extended review of angry joe, delirith said they only worked with the weapon itself. So, getting a flamethrower that boosted physical damage was pretty much useless.

    No idea why they made it totally random like that. Makes no sense whatsoever.
    If true, that is actually a pathetic failure on Bioware's part. 
    You almost get the idea that somewhere mid development things shifted and alot had to be redone or reallocated because some things just make zero sense.
    I don't doubt that one bit. It lines up with rumors/reports from a year or so ago when the game was delayed and employees were shifted from other games to sort out development.

    Likely, the game was more ambitious at that point and it had to be reigned in during the last year in order to get a launched product out at all.
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,768
    edited February 2019
    Aeander said:
    Bloodaxes said:
    Aeander said:
    I've shelved Anthem until they find a way to make "end game" feel rewarding somehow. Travis Day nailed the problem on the head, though. Once these issues are resolved, I'll consider picking it up again.
    I'm curious about those loot stats. Do mis-matched modifiers on one weapon effect your other weapon? Like if you have a sniper rifle with LMG bonus damage, would that bonus apply to an LMG you have in your other weapon slot?
    I could be wrong, but based on the extended review of angry joe, delirith said they only worked with the weapon itself. So, getting a flamethrower that boosted physical damage was pretty much useless.

    No idea why they made it totally random like that. Makes no sense whatsoever.
    If true, that is actually a pathetic failure on Bioware's part. 
    You almost get the idea that somewhere mid development things shifted and alot had to be redone or reallocated because some things just make zero sense.
    This has to be the reasoning.

    A lot of things in the game just don't make sense. The loot rolls, the way loot / inventory management works in general. The way quests are handled. Endgame is really odd with the difficulty systems not impacting rewards.

    I feel like it wasn't meant to be this much of a Destiny clone originally, but somewhere an exec said they needed to switch it to have all of these features to make retention higher or something.
  • gunklackergunklacker Member UncommonPosts: 247

    Xarko said:

    So what are the chances of Anthem getting an axe right after that 90 day content plan?



    Zero.
    alkarionlogjimmywolf
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 749

    Aeander said:



    I've shelved Anthem until they find a way to make "end game" feel rewarding somehow. Travis Day nailed the problem on the head, though. Once these issues are resolved, I'll consider picking it up again.


    I'm curious about those loot stats. Do mis-matched modifiers on one weapon effect your other weapon? Like if you have a sniper rifle with LMG bonus damage, would that bonus apply to an LMG you have in your other weapon slot?



    There are two different kinds of inscriptions: gear-based and suit-based. Gear-based inscriptions only apply to *that* item and are indicated with a gear icon. Suit-based inscriptions apply to all javelin parts/pieces that the bonus is applicable to and are indicated with a suit icon. Most inscriptions are gear-based, but you will occasionally find suit-based ones.

    However, that doesn't prevent +200% physical damage gear-based inscriptions from rolling on items that have no physical damage component (such as Storm seals) or vice-versa (+200% elemental damage gear-based loot on physical-only items such as weapons). This is what makes the majority of rolls feel useless; getting +Shotgun Ammo on an LMG is disappointing -- even if it is a suit-based bonus. And since there are *so* many inscriptions that can roll the majority of them *are* useless since any of them can roll on any item.

    Spending 30+ minutes on a GM1 stronghold (or 2+ hours in GM2/3) only to get a single MW item that has useless rolls feels incredibly unrewarding. Getting a piece of gear that is an actual upgrade, much less one that is even applicable to your build, feels nearly impossible. So far, I've gotten about 7 legendary items (all of which I got on/before the Friday loot nerf); 5 of which I trashed because they were objectively worse than MW counterparts due to the inscription bonuses.
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    This guy probably knows his stuff. He was one of the people that fixed Diablo 3 with Reaper of Souls. He's legit had a bad loot system and had to fix it. Him and the rest of the team improved things massively and actually made it playable and addicting. It saved the game.
    EponyxDamorGdemamicmacqkjempffjimmywolf
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited February 2019
    Aeander said:
    If true, that is actually a pathetic failure on Bioware's part. 
    ...is it? People don't mind same system in PoE.

    It's just fine conceptually, it provides much greater build variabillity.

    "Fixing" it with reduced variability as Day suggests is just dumb..

    The problem is, people stupidly compare the game to what it is not - Destiny-like or Diablo-like game, instead of judging the game for what it is or what the game is supposed to be in the future.


    Imo, the ugliest part will only come, once/if developers start listening to "feedback" of those people...
    AeanderEponyxDamoralkarionlog[Deleted User]Iselin
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    Gdemami said:
    Aeander said:
    If true, that is actually a pathetic failure on Bioware's part. 
    ...is it? People don't mind in PoE.

    It's just fine, it provides much greater build variabillity.

    "Fixing" it with reduced variability as Day suggests is just dumb..
    So getting modifiers on weapons that have no benefit (to it's type) whatsoever is great? Yea... that seems like a good way to promote versatility in junk to trash.
    EponyxDamorAeander

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,838
    edited February 2019
    Gdemami said:
    Aeander said:
    If true, that is actually a pathetic failure on Bioware's part. 
    ...is it? People don't mind same system in PoE.

    It's just fine conceptually, it provides much greater build variabillity.

    "Fixing" it with reduced variability as Day suggests is just dumb..

    The problem is, people stupidly compare the game to what it is not - Destiny-like or Diablo-like game, instead of judging the game for what it is or what the game is supposed to be in the future.


    Imo, the ugliest part will only come, once/if developers start listening to "feedback" of those people...
    Yes. It is.

    If an LMG damage/ammo bonus drops on your Sniper Rifle, but applies to an LMG you have equipped in your other slot, that is good design. That adds variability in builds and encourages you to use that sniper rifle with an LMG.

    If an LMG damage/ammo bonus drops on your Sniper Rifle and does not benefit the LMG in your other slot, that is an abject, stupid failure of game design. Period.
    EponyxDamor[Deleted User]jimmywolf
  • cmacqcmacq Member UncommonPosts: 331
    Just had a look at the whole Reddit post. I am very glad Travis did this. He identified some of the major problems with Anthem currently. The people playing it are most unhappy with the loot/reward situation. Not saying Travis has all the answers but the fact he made this post has got Bioware having a good look at the problem. Seems they have specialized in stories all these years but have no experience in the whole loot/reward thing that is integral to this kind of game.
  • 3dom3dom Member RarePosts: 889
    edited February 2019
    Right now the biggest concern is the devs (EA) axing further development Andromeda-style or switching development to Anthem "2" to pursue higher sales numbers to impress shareholders. It will be a Biblical-scale miracle if none of these won't happen.

    Who could think the biggest corporations are the source of extreme volatility when they were supposed to be a stable foundation for steady development?

    Thank you for your time!

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 749
    edited February 2019
    Aeander said:
    Gdemami said:
    Aeander said:
    If true, that is actually a pathetic failure on Bioware's part. 
    ...is it? People don't mind same system in PoE.

    It's just fine conceptually, it provides much greater build variabillity.

    "Fixing" it with reduced variability as Day suggests is just dumb..

    The problem is, people stupidly compare the game to what it is not - Destiny-like or Diablo-like game, instead of judging the game for what it is or what the game is supposed to be in the future.


    Imo, the ugliest part will only come, once/if developers start listening to "feedback" of those people...
    Yes. It is.

    If an LMG damage/ammo bonus drops on your Sniper Rifle, but applies to an LMG you have equipped in your other slot, that is good design. That adds variability in builds and encourages you to use that sniper rifle with an LMG.

    If an LMG damage/ammo bonus drops on your Sniper Rifle and does not benefit the LMG in your other slot, that is an abject, stupid failure of game design. Period.
    Fortunately, you'll never get specific weapon bonuses on gear-only inscriptions that don't apply to that specific item ... In my experience at least. However, you can get general bonuses that are gear-only that don't apply to that item (such as ElementalDMG, PhysicalDMG, ImpactDMG, etc). The largest problem, in my experience, comes with what you mention here, though.

    Since there are specific bonuses for each of the weapon types for damage/ammo/aim you end up with a very diluted pool of inscriptions. This results in lots of items like this:



    So, this is a MW Sniper Rifle .. With no bonuses that actually apply to this specific weapon. Instead, we have 4 suit-specific bonuses. Unfortunately, only two of these bonuses can ever be active at the same time since we are limited to two weapons. So, unless you're equipping a marksman rifle, LMG, or machine pistol you'll only ever get the +15% Pickup Radius bonus from this weapon.

    Having such a large pool of inscription combinations makes it highly improbable that you will ever get an item or set of items that are actually useful (read: synergistic) for more than one specific reason. This rifle, for example: in order to have synergy, you'll need to find an LMG, machine pistol, or marksman rifle with sniper rifle bonuses for it to be "useful" and provide "build variety". However, even in this scenario, it still remains that the other two of the four inscriptions on the item above are useless.
    [Deleted User]TacticalZombeh
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,838
    Aeander said:
    Gdemami said:
    Aeander said:
    If true, that is actually a pathetic failure on Bioware's part. 
    ...is it? People don't mind same system in PoE.

    It's just fine conceptually, it provides much greater build variabillity.

    "Fixing" it with reduced variability as Day suggests is just dumb..

    The problem is, people stupidly compare the game to what it is not - Destiny-like or Diablo-like game, instead of judging the game for what it is or what the game is supposed to be in the future.


    Imo, the ugliest part will only come, once/if developers start listening to "feedback" of those people...
    Yes. It is.

    If an LMG damage/ammo bonus drops on your Sniper Rifle, but applies to an LMG you have equipped in your other slot, that is good design. That adds variability in builds and encourages you to use that sniper rifle with an LMG.

    If an LMG damage/ammo bonus drops on your Sniper Rifle and does not benefit the LMG in your other slot, that is an abject, stupid failure of game design. Period.
    Fortunately, you'll never get specific weapon bonuses on gear-only inscriptions that don't apply to that specific item ... In my experience at least. However, you can get general bonuses that are gear-only that don't apply to that item (such as ElementalDMG, PhysicalDMG, ImpactDMG, etc). The largest problem, in my experience, comes with what you mention here, though.

    Since there are specific bonuses for each of the weapon types for damage/ammo/aim you end up with a very diluted pool of inscriptions. This results in lots of items like this:



    So, this is a MW Sniper Rifle .. With no bonuses that actually apply to this specific weapon. Instead, we have 4 suit-specific bonuses. Unfortunately, only two of these bonuses can ever be active at the same time since we are limited to two weapons. So, unless you're equipping a marksman rifle, LMG, or machine pistol you'll only ever get the +15% Pickup Radius bonus from this weapon.

    Having such a large pool of inscription combinations makes it highly improbable that you will ever get an item or set of items that are actually useful (read: synergistic) for more than one specific reason. This rifle, for example: in order to have synergy, you'll need to find an LMG, machine pistol, or marksman rifle with sniper rifle bonuses for it to be "useful" and provide "build variety". However, even in this scenario, it still remains that the other two of the four inscriptions on the item above are useless.
    It sounds like the solution to this problem is to add rules to gear drops. Such that every legendary/MW gear drop will have 1 synergy slot (a slot that buffs a specific type of other weapon) and the rest as specific slots, which buff itself.
    EponyxDamorTacticalZombeh
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 749
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    Gdemami said:
    Aeander said:
    If true, that is actually a pathetic failure on Bioware's part. 
    ...is it? People don't mind same system in PoE.

    It's just fine conceptually, it provides much greater build variabillity.

    "Fixing" it with reduced variability as Day suggests is just dumb..

    The problem is, people stupidly compare the game to what it is not - Destiny-like or Diablo-like game, instead of judging the game for what it is or what the game is supposed to be in the future.


    Imo, the ugliest part will only come, once/if developers start listening to "feedback" of those people...
    Yes. It is.

    If an LMG damage/ammo bonus drops on your Sniper Rifle, but applies to an LMG you have equipped in your other slot, that is good design. That adds variability in builds and encourages you to use that sniper rifle with an LMG.

    If an LMG damage/ammo bonus drops on your Sniper Rifle and does not benefit the LMG in your other slot, that is an abject, stupid failure of game design. Period.
    Fortunately, you'll never get specific weapon bonuses on gear-only inscriptions that don't apply to that specific item ... In my experience at least. However, you can get general bonuses that are gear-only that don't apply to that item (such as ElementalDMG, PhysicalDMG, ImpactDMG, etc). The largest problem, in my experience, comes with what you mention here, though.

    Since there are specific bonuses for each of the weapon types for damage/ammo/aim you end up with a very diluted pool of inscriptions. This results in lots of items like this:



    So, this is a MW Sniper Rifle .. With no bonuses that actually apply to this specific weapon. Instead, we have 4 suit-specific bonuses. Unfortunately, only two of these bonuses can ever be active at the same time since we are limited to two weapons. So, unless you're equipping a marksman rifle, LMG, or machine pistol you'll only ever get the +15% Pickup Radius bonus from this weapon.

    Having such a large pool of inscription combinations makes it highly improbable that you will ever get an item or set of items that are actually useful (read: synergistic) for more than one specific reason. This rifle, for example: in order to have synergy, you'll need to find an LMG, machine pistol, or marksman rifle with sniper rifle bonuses for it to be "useful" and provide "build variety". However, even in this scenario, it still remains that the other two of the four inscriptions on the item above are useless.
    It sounds like the solution to this problem is to add rules to gear drops. Such that every legendary/MW gear drop will have 1 synergy slot (a slot that buffs a specific type of other weapon) and the rest as specific slots, which buff itself.
    There are a lot of ways to approach fixing the issues facing Anthem’s end game loop and progression. However, nerfing drop rates while simultaneously leaving the inscription pools broken was probably the least helpful option.

    LimnicAeanderTacticalZombeh
  • jdnewelljdnewell Member UncommonPosts: 2,237
    I tried it on OA and liked it well enough. If they get the loot system worked out then I will hop back on.
    Until then I am gonna replay DA3 i think.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    Aeander said:
    Yes. It is.

    If an LMG damage/ammo bonus drops on your Sniper Rifle, but applies to an LMG you have equipped in your other slot, that is good design. That adds variability in builds and encourages you to use that sniper rifle with an LMG.

    If an LMG damage/ammo bonus drops on your Sniper Rifle and does not benefit the LMG in your other slot, that is an abject, stupid failure of game design. Period.
    I haven't seen the latter, although even then, I wouldn't see it as much of an issue - you still get unwanted/useless bonuses anyway thus it doesn't make much of a difference.

    However, I believe people have an issue with the former and it is also the case Day was addressing.

    My point still stands tho - this isn't Diablo nor Destiny.
    EponyxDamor[Deleted User]alkarionlog
  • TheIdealistTheIdealist Member UncommonPosts: 45












    If they will not add pvp this game will die in 3-5 months




    Your really joking right?  The classes are so broken and there is ZERO balance between any of it. PVP would be a dam joke and noone would play it cause you would end up with  some classes unstoppable killing machines. The weapons and random states alone make this something that is not doable alone.  You can make a setup where its all but impossible to die in. I've seen one setup  on youtube where the guy was going through GM1 missions / contracts / ect. one shooting everything.






    And again, if there is no pvp in mmo game like Anthem it will be boring after some months.

    I didn't wrote anything if the game is balanced or not. I just wrote about what happens if any Online game doesn't have pvp.


    That's not true at all. You need content not PvP. PvP is a nice thing to have for people who want it but I can tell you that Destiny PvP wasn't what kept people coming back. Are you really saying people play Warframe for the PvP? Hell no. I don't actually know anyone who has touched PvP in Warframe. 



    Warframe is free to play
    alkarionlogTacticalZombeh
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,838
    edited February 2019












    If they will not add pvp this game will die in 3-5 months




    Your really joking right?  The classes are so broken and there is ZERO balance between any of it. PVP would be a dam joke and noone would play it cause you would end up with  some classes unstoppable killing machines. The weapons and random states alone make this something that is not doable alone.  You can make a setup where its all but impossible to die in. I've seen one setup  on youtube where the guy was going through GM1 missions / contracts / ect. one shooting everything.






    And again, if there is no pvp in mmo game like Anthem it will be boring after some months.

    I didn't wrote anything if the game is balanced or not. I just wrote about what happens if any Online game doesn't have pvp.


    That's not true at all. You need content not PvP. PvP is a nice thing to have for people who want it but I can tell you that Destiny PvP wasn't what kept people coming back. Are you really saying people play Warframe for the PvP? Hell no. I don't actually know anyone who has touched PvP in Warframe. 



    Warframe is free to play
    And? The fact remains that is has a PvP mode, and a vast majority of the community does not play (or has never played) it. It being free to play isn't relevant here.
    GdemamialkarionlogTacticalZombehTheIdealist
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