StaalBurgher said: KS indie projects of this nature are 90% likely to fail. There is no great feat in predicting it.
Isn't that even more a reason to be critical?
I would personally prefer it if people invested in projects that aren't about giving you impossible promises but something realistic that may actually see a release.
No one benefits from a game that consists of a list of features that only exist on paper. Not the critics, not the fans.
I agree but the problem is there is no other game developer offering (1) permadeath/ageing (2) offline character persistence (3) developer provided social/legal framework to enforce player made rules
It is also not simply a matter of being constructively critical, which would be entirely acceptable. Unfortunately the vast majority on this forum is about gloating. Naturally someone like Slap would reply "What about x, y, z? Do you think that is acceptable?" No, I don't think that is acceptable but neither did it require 3-0-0+ threads of quite deliberate baiting to state x, y, z.
If someone posts about a game and your response is about the poster you have already lost the argument. If someone posts something that is not true, the easiest way to win that argument is to show a link proving what they say is untrue. It's funny how personal some of you get. Tell you what... when I raise $5 million dollars from the public you can talk about Slapshot all you want! Until then. lets focus on the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If someone posts about a game and your response is about the poster you have already lost the argument. If someone posts something that is not true, the easiest way to win that argument is to show a link proving what they say is untrue. It's funny how personal some of you get. Tell you what... when I raise $5 million dollars from the public you can talk about Slapshot all you want! Until then. lets focus on the game.
You claim to be a neutral who is simply raising constructive criticism but as is clear from 3-0-0+ threads of gloating and celebrating their everything struggle your claim of innocent commentary is untrue. You get personal with Caspian. You can't conduct a campaign against an individual and then complain when someone calls you up on it.
Look, I don't have anything against you. You raise valid points but you also go way over the top. I just think you should have some humanity and cut the guy some slack. Yeah, his project is in a tough spot and might fail but dude, at least he is trying to bring something new to the table. Stop trying to make it harder for them. Even if it is a longshot. Yes he was rude to you, you've made your point.
If someone posts about a game and your response is about the poster you have already lost the argument. If someone posts something that is not true, the easiest way to win that argument is to show a link proving what they say is untrue. It's funny how personal some of you get. Tell you what... when I raise $5 million dollars from the public you can talk about Slapshot all you want! Until then. lets focus on the game.
You claim to be a neutral who is simply raising constructive criticism but as is clear from 3-0-0+ threads of gloating and celebrating their everything struggle your claim of innocent commentary is untrue. You get personal with Caspian. You can't conduct a campaign against an individual and then complain when someone calls you up on it.
Look, I don't have anything against you. You raise valid points but you also go way over the top. I just think you should have some humanity and cut the guy some slack. Yeah, his project is in a tough spot and might fail but dude, at least he is trying to bring something new to the table. Stop trying to make it harder for them. Even if it is a longshot. Yes he was rude to you, you've made your point.
You are wrong on most points. It’s not any more personal with CoE than it was with Greedmonger, MortalOnline, PathfinderOnline... I expect people to do what they say. Again, if what I say is unfactual call me on it. This thread was created because Caspien threw a temper tantrum after Tim’s rather mild article called him on his lack of production an transparancy. He has claimed that as a result he is pulling all his “exclusives” from this site. If you don’t think that’s worthy of discussion the problem is on your end and you will just have to deal with it.
PS: In the last 4 months I have created a whopping total of 5 threads about CoE. The next one will likely be about the long awaited and long delayed 0.5/State of Elyria Update. Unless of course, something else newsworthy pops up, because who knows when that will come out.
Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This forum really could use an "ironic" voting button along with "snarky", "sarcastic", and of course, "not sure if serious."
He's the guy who posted "first" on another thread recently. He should have just stuck with his schtick and simply posted "bump"
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
@StaalBurgher For the record, I actually went and looked. Despite your ridiculously repeated assertion that I created 300+ CoE threads. Reality is actually 46 (maybe 47). That is a far cry from 300+ and begins prior to the Kickstarter in 2016 so roughly 3 years.
See I actually participate in the entire MMORPG.COM site. I join other game threads. I comment on the news. Unlike you, who has not posted about any other subject on this site since 2017...
See, when someone makes an untruthful statement as you did, the proper way to respond is to call them out on it with actual facts.
So now I am done discussing Slapshot. If you want to further discuss me feel free to PM.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
@StaalBurgher For the record, I actually went and looked. Despite your ridiculously repeated assertion that I created 300+ CoE threads. Reality is actually 46 (maybe 47). That is a far cry from 300+ and begins prior to the Kickstarter in 2016 so roughly 3 years.
See I actually participate in the entire MMORPG.COM site. I join other game threads. I comment on the news. Unlike you, who has not posted about any other subject on this site since 2017...
See, when someone makes an untruthful statement as you did, the proper way to respond is to call them out on it with actual facts.
So now I am done discussing Slapshot. If you want to further discuss me feel free to PM.
3-0-0+ is completely relevant because I include every poster on here that is obsessively negative about SBS. You are the largest contributor most like and that is why you get the comment. But that is what you want right? Internet notoriety?
I am glad you counted them. 46 threads dude... for a game you think is going to fail. 46 threads is 15% of the total. Jesus that is obsessive.
Why would I post on other games that I have no interest in?
MadFrenchie said: (EDIT- I should say, this is when you aren't merely insulting others merely for the sake of being a useless Edge Lord).
The irony is just too much. You are the most condescending poster on here. You get personal at the drop of a hat.
Wrong. I can be abrasive, but that's not the same as personal. If I say or imply something you've said is, say, stupid, then it's an assessment on the words you've posted (ooh, or, say, if I reply to a poster by calling their assessment of another poster "ignorant," perhaps! That seems applicable here). Your actions, not your person. If someone struggles to handle such criticism of their quite public comments, they shouldn't be posting on the internet.
You should actually spend more time on these forums if you're going to make a blanket assessment of any poster here.
EDIT- I should say, I very much label our LOL troll's account/person him or herself as an edge lord that's useless to this community. That's because he or she has consistently shown themselves as such to the point that not doing so is avoiding calling a spade a spade.
@StaalBurgher For the record, I actually went and looked. Despite your ridiculously repeated assertion that I created 300+ CoE threads. Reality is actually 46 (maybe 47). That is a far cry from 300+ and begins prior to the Kickstarter in 2016 so roughly 3 years.
See I actually participate in the entire MMORPG.COM site. I join other game threads. I comment on the news. Unlike you, who has not posted about any other subject on this site since 2017...
See, when someone makes an untruthful statement as you did, the proper way to respond is to call them out on it with actual facts.
So now I am done discussing Slapshot. If you want to further discuss me feel free to PM.
3-0-0+ is completely relevant because I include every poster on here that is obsessively negative about SBS. You are the largest contributor most like and that is why you get the comment. But that is what you want right? Internet notoriety?
I am glad you counted them. 46 threads dude... for a game you think is going to fail. 46 threads is 15% of the total. Jesus that is obsessive.
Why would I post on other games that I have no interest in?
So I am every poster on here now? Is this my Corrie Booker Spartacus moment?
Here is just one of your blatantly wrong quotes: ”I suppose that is your only recourse. 3-0-0+ threads on how much this game fails is pretty good evidence that you have a massive personal grudge.”
Multiple times in this very thread you have been called out for misquoting and for stating untruths. As always, the best response is to simply counter with facts
If your only purpose for visiting MMORPG.com is to defend a single game at least we know where you are coming from and why you are here.
So I ask you again: Was the fact that Caspien threw a temper tantrum about Tim’s mild article and stated he would pull all his exclusive info from the site worthy of a discussion thread? If the answer is yes, then your inane, made up falsehoods have no relevance at all on this thread.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
@StaalBurgher For the record, I actually went and looked. Despite your ridiculously repeated assertion that I created 300+ CoE threads. Reality is actually 46 (maybe 47). That is a far cry from 300+ and begins prior to the Kickstarter in 2016 so roughly 3 years.
See I actually participate in the entire MMORPG.COM site. I join other game threads. I comment on the news. Unlike you, who has not posted about any other subject on this site since 2017...
See, when someone makes an untruthful statement as you did, the proper way to respond is to call them out on it with actual facts.
So now I am done discussing Slapshot. If you want to further discuss me feel free to PM.
3-0-0+ is completely relevant because I include every poster on here that is obsessively negative about SBS. You are the largest contributor most like and that is why you get the comment. But that is what you want right? Internet notoriety?
I am glad you counted them. 46 threads dude... for a game you think is going to fail. 46 threads is 15% of the total. Jesus that is obsessive.
Why would I post on other games that I have no interest in?
So I am every poster on here now? Is this my Corrie Booker Spartacus moment?
Here is just one of your blatantly wrong quotes: ”I suppose that is your only recourse. 3-0-0+ threads on how much this game fails is pretty good evidence that you have a massive personal grudge.”
Multiple times in this very thread you have been called out for misquoting and for stating untruths. As always, the best response is to simply counter with facts
If your only purpose for visiting MMORPG.com is to defend a single game at least we know where you are coming from and why you are here.
So I ask you again: Was the fact that Caspien threw a temper tantrum about Tim’s mild article and stated he would pull all his exclusive info from the site worthy of a discussion thread? If the answer is yes, then your inane, made up falsehoods have no relevance at all on this thread.
It's not that is isn't an event worth discussing; it's that discussing the event is a negative discussion surrounding something they just want, oh so badly, to be real and everything they imagined. Anything negative is a threat to that fanciful idea actually happening.
Remember: the ends justify any means to way too many of these supporters.
@StaalBurgher For the record, I actually went and looked. Despite your ridiculously repeated assertion that I created 300+ CoE threads. Reality is actually 46 (maybe 47). That is a far cry from 300+ and begins prior to the Kickstarter in 2016 so roughly 3 years.
See I actually participate in the entire MMORPG.COM site. I join other game threads. I comment on the news. Unlike you, who has not posted about any other subject on this site since 2017...
See, when someone makes an untruthful statement as you did, the proper way to respond is to call them out on it with actual facts.
So now I am done discussing Slapshot. If you want to further discuss me feel free to PM.
3-0-0+ is completely relevant because I include every poster on here that is obsessively negative about SBS. You are the largest contributor most like and that is why you get the comment. But that is what you want right? Internet notoriety?
I am glad you counted them. 46 threads dude... for a game you think is going to fail. 46 threads is 15% of the total. Jesus that is obsessive.
Why would I post on other games that I have no interest in?
So I am every poster on here now? Is this my Corrie Booker Spartacus moment?
Here is just one of your blatantly wrong quotes: ”I suppose that is your only recourse. 3-0-0+ threads on how much this game fails is pretty good evidence that you have a massive personal grudge.”
Multiple times in this very thread you have been called out for misquoting and for stating untruths. As always, the best response is to simply counter with facts
If your only purpose for visiting MMORPG.com is to defend a single game at least we know where you are coming from and why you are here.
So I ask you again: Was the fact that Caspien threw a temper tantrum about Tim’s mild article and stated he would pull all his exclusive info from the site worthy of a discussion thread? If the answer is yes, then your inane, made up falsehoods have no relevance at all on this thread.
It's not that is isn't an event worth discussing; it's that discussing the event is a negative discussion surrounding something they just want, oh so badly, to be real and everything they imagined. Anything negative is a threat to that fanciful idea actually happening.
Remember: the ends justify any means to way too many of these supporters.
The truth hurts.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Your request reminds me of how sometimes at work someone will accidentally cc a large distribution list in a reply all.
Hilarity ensues as first a number of people will reply all asking to be removed from the DL, followed closely by many who admonish others for hitting reply all, by replying to all themselves.
Then come the reply all emails threatening to escalate to management if other people don't stop replying to all.
(I am not making this stuff up)
Pro tip, best way to kill a thread is to stop replying....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All of this is making a lot out of nothing. If they hit the 8 year mark with no end in sight, then trouble, but til then, not much to be said.
Responses like this are boggling really, they promised two, 2, to, too years....
Sure, I knew it would never happen, but giving a free pass until year 8, just crazy talk.
It might even be OK if the devs would come out and say, yep we blew it, expect it to be another 4 or 5 years or so, but they won't.
CUs coming up on 6 years and still Mark wont say....just 2 more years maybe.....
Is the never ending development story really acceptable, not for me certainly.
People keep forgetting the burn rate, this team reportedly has 25 people on it or so say some of the ivory tower members on the COE forum.
For ease of discussion, let's assume they all cost $75K each per year, and not even worry about building, infrastructure, insurance or other expenses.
That comes out to $1.875M per year, they've raised $5.5M total to date and have spent $??? since the project start back in the fall of 2016.
How far do you think the funds will go? Unless a big influx of funding comes in from somewhere, it's very likely by years end they'll be forced to scale back, layoff or sell out to a publisher.
One does not have to be a gaming dev to understand money has to come from somewhere, and nobody rides for free.
A never ending build cycle is unsustainable over the long term, well unless you are Chris Roberts.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Your request reminds me of how sometimes at work someone will accidentally cc a large distribution list in a reply all.
Hilarity ensues as first a number of people will reply all asking to be removed from the DL, followed closely by many who admonish others for hitting reply all, by replying to all themselves.
Then come the reply all emails threatening to escalate to management if other people don't stop replying to all.
(I am not making this stuff up)
Pro tip, best way to kill a thread is to stop replying....
Yep agree let's just let the thread die by not posting. Who's with me?
Comments
If someone posts something that is not true, the easiest way to win that argument is to show a link proving what they say is untrue.
It's funny how personal some of you get. Tell you what... when I raise $5 million dollars from the public you can talk about Slapshot all you want! Until then. lets focus on the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Why?
Look, I don't have anything against you. You raise valid points but you also go way over the top. I just think you should have some humanity and cut the guy some slack. Yeah, his project is in a tough spot and might fail but dude, at least he is trying to bring something new to the table. Stop trying to make it harder for them. Even if it is a longshot. Yes he was rude to you, you've made your point.
PS: In the last 4 months I have created a whopping total of 5 threads about CoE. The next one will likely be about the long awaited and long delayed 0.5/State of Elyria Update. Unless of course, something else newsworthy pops up, because who knows when that will come out.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
See I actually participate in the entire MMORPG.COM site. I join other game threads. I comment on the news. Unlike you, who has not posted about any other subject on this site since 2017...
See, when someone makes an untruthful statement as you did, the proper way to respond is to call them out on it with actual facts.
So now I am done discussing Slapshot. If you want to further discuss me feel free to PM.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Well, at least it is clear you are the problem, not Walsh...
I am glad you counted them. 46 threads dude... for a game you think is going to fail. 46 threads is 15% of the total. Jesus that is obsessive.
Why would I post on other games that I have no interest in?
You should actually spend more time on these forums if you're going to make a blanket assessment of any poster here.
EDIT- I should say, I very much label our LOL troll's account/person him or herself as an edge lord that's useless to this community. That's because he or she has consistently shown themselves as such to the point that not doing so is avoiding calling a spade a spade.
Here is just one of your blatantly wrong quotes:
”I suppose that is your only recourse. 3-0-0+ threads on how much this game fails is pretty good evidence that you have a massive personal grudge.”
Multiple times in this very thread you have been called out for misquoting and for stating untruths. As always, the best response is to simply counter with facts
If your only purpose for visiting MMORPG.com is to defend a single game at least we know where you are coming from and why you are here.
So I ask you again: Was the fact that Caspien threw a temper tantrum about Tim’s mild article and stated he would pull all his exclusive info from the site worthy of a discussion thread? If the answer is yes, then your inane, made up falsehoods have no relevance at all on this thread.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Remember: the ends justify any means to way too many of these supporters.
Who woulda thunk it?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Hilarity ensues as first a number of people will reply all asking to be removed from the DL, followed closely by many who admonish others for hitting reply all, by replying to all themselves.
Then come the reply all emails threatening to escalate to management if other people don't stop replying to all. (I am not making this stuff up)
Pro tip, best way to kill a thread is to stop replying....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sure, I knew it would never happen, but giving a free pass until year 8, just crazy talk.
It might even be OK if the devs would come out and say, yep we blew it, expect it to be another 4 or 5 years or so, but they won't.
CUs coming up on 6 years and still Mark wont say....just 2 more years maybe.....
Is the never ending development story really acceptable, not for me certainly.
People keep forgetting the burn rate, this team reportedly has 25 people on it or so say some of the ivory tower members on the COE forum.
For ease of discussion, let's assume they all cost $75K each per year, and not even worry about building, infrastructure, insurance or other expenses.
That comes out to $1.875M per year, they've raised $5.5M total to date and have spent $??? since the project start back in the fall of 2016.
How far do you think the funds will go? Unless a big influx of funding comes in from somewhere, it's very likely by years end they'll be forced to scale back, layoff or sell out to a publisher.
One does not have to be a gaming dev to understand money has to come from somewhere, and nobody rides for free.
A never ending build cycle is unsustainable over the long term, well unless you are Chris Roberts.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon