There are plenty of Perma-Death, Full Loot Open World PvP Survival MMO's out there, like Ark, Rend, Rust, Day Z, etc... some doing quite well.
Are there actual perms death modes in them? I didn’t know that if true. Not that it matters though the progression is vastly different than an mmorpg which is the main issue I think.
I know Day Z is perma death by default.
Ark has a "Hard Core" mode, which is Perma Death.
No Clue about the others.. and to be honest, if it does not have Perma Death, than it's simply not a Survival Game in my mind, it's just another pointless PvP MMO.
Well your mind is wrought with all kinds of crazy so it’s all good.
There is no such thing as meaningful PvP in an MMO.
All PvP in a MMO is nothing more than pointless petty digital violence to other players, the only time PvP can have meaning, is in PvP campaigns where a Side can Win, and that winning has an impact.
That's what I want to see changed.
Although, some PvP games have a little meaning to it. UO, for example, was your loot. Some say that's a simulation of the Feudal Age or Wild West, but it's not because killing the bad guys doesn't stop them, they are more like the Undead overrunning the game world. But then, the good guys are like undead too, or maybe like souls being tormented in hell. lol
What your saying is just your opinion, the things you listed worked in UO until UO failed to keep up with the changing graphics and never rly tried to add content until to many had already left.
The reason full loot works with the aspects you mentioned is because no matter how much you die or are looted, if you don't get better, y0u can turn around to your crafter or merchant and resupply yourself instantly with damn near everything u lost so really all you lost was the little bit of pve/crafting time.
For pvp or learning the game it usually take some massive prep to get your kit ready for some hard core pvp action; pots, bandages, ore, leather, wood, food, regs, spare mounts, tricks of the trade like bolos an such, and of course gold. All of that is pve sure you may have to defend while doing it but a smart player will never loose more then two or three nodes/ mobs worth of stuff
What your saying is just your opinion, the things you listed worked in UO until UO failed to keep up with the changing graphics and never rly tried to add content until to many had already left.
The reason full loot works with the aspects you mentioned is because no matter how much you die or are looted, if you don't get better, y0u can turn around to your crafter or merchant and resupply yourself instantly with damn near everything u lost so really all you lost was the little bit of pve/crafting time.
For pvp or learning the game it usually take some massive prep to get your kit ready for some hard core pvp action; pots, bandages, ore, leather, wood, food, regs, spare mounts, tricks of the trade like bolos an such, and of course gold. All of that is pve sure you may have to defend while doing it but a smart player will never loose more then two or three nodes/ mobs worth of stuff
You have a distorted view of UO, no doubt based on being a successful PKer. It's true that some players left for EQ's 3D world. But many more left, even before EQ, because of the rampant PKing overrunning the game. The numbers prove it, and the Lead Designer, Raph Koster has said it. That UO lost a huge number of players because of the rampant PKing, known because that's what people said as their reason for leaving.
Risk vs Reward guys. There has to be a middle ground between GW2 (zero risk, which I enjoy a bit when time is very tight) and Darkfall..a death can cost you 2 hours farm time, but the fun/excitement to be had, is unreachable in GW2.
There is no such thing as meaningful PvP in an MMO.
All PvP in a MMO is nothing more than pointless petty digital violence to other players, the only time PvP can have meaning, is in PvP campaigns where a Side can Win, and that winning has an impact.
That's what I want to see changed.
Although, some PvP games have a little meaning to it. UO, for example, was your loot. Some say that's a simulation of the Feudal Age or Wild West, but it's not because killing the bad guys doesn't stop them, they are more like the Undead overrunning the game world. But then, the good guys are like undead too, or maybe like souls being tormented in hell. lol
See that is the main problem with all these PvP MMO's, killing players is the same as killing NPC's, basically, you are killing each other as nothing more than a pointless grind for the sake of grind.
No End, No Meaning, No Reason to PvP it other than to kill each other.
Unless there is a end goal, a way to win, the whole game becomes nothing more than a sociopath playground of killing purely to kill, which is why all these games quickly get filled with gankers and trolls.
This is also why MOBA's, BR,. and Arena games are popular, the PvP has a purpose, there is a meaning behind the fight.. even if it is nothing more than to simply win the match, there is at the very least that end goal.. at some point you will win or lose.
In these PvP MMO's you can never really win, and you can't really lose. so you end up killing other players simply to kill them, making PvP no different than a PvE grind.
Even games like DAoC, with facation wars, the PvP still ended up being killing each other for the sake of killing each other, as there was no way to actually win or lose.
Some games like GW2 for example, had WvW which had week long matches with Winners and Losers, and that gave meaning to the PvP, not only in rewards, but each team had a score and a place, and wins and looses would move you up and down the roster. This was a form of meaningful PvP, a reason to fight.
I know Crowfall is planning to expand on this idea.. wonder what other games also give meaningful PvP?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
There are plenty of Perma-Death, Full Loot Open World PvP Survival MMO's out there, like Ark, Rend, Rust, Day Z, etc... some doing quite well.
Are there actual perms death modes in them? I didn’t know that if true. Not that it matters though the progression is vastly different than an mmorpg which is the main issue I think.
I know Day Z is perma death by default.
Ark has a "Hard Core" mode, which is Perma Death.
No Clue about the others.. and to be honest, if it does not have Perma Death, than it's simply not a Survival Game in my mind, it's just another pointless PvP MMO.
Well your mind is wrought with all kinds of crazy so it’s all good.
Ponder this.. if you can't really die.. how can you call it a game of survival?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
See that is the main problem with all these PvP MMO's, killing players is the same as killing NPC's, basically, you are killing each other as nothing more than a pointless grind for the sake of grind.
No End, No Meaning, No Reason to PvP it other than to kill each other.
Unless there is a end goal, a way to win, the whole game becomes nothing more than a sociopath playground of killing purely to kill, which is why all these games quickly get filled with gankers and trolls.
This is also why MOBA's, BR,. and Arena games are popular, the PvP has a purpose, there is a meaning behind the fight.. even if it is nothing more than to simply win the match, there is at the very least that end goal.. at some point you will win or lose.
In these PvP MMO's you can never really win, and you can't really lose. so you end up killing other players simply to kill them, making PvP no different than a PvE grind.
Even games like DAoC, with facation wars, the PvP still ended up being killing each other for the sake of killing each other, as there was no way to actually win or lose.
Some games like GW2 for example, had WvW which had week long matches with Winners and Losers, and that gave meaning to the PvP, not only in rewards, but each team had a score and a place, and wins and looses would move you up and down the roster. This was a form of meaningful PvP, a reason to fight.
I know Crowfall is planning to expand on this idea.. wonder what other games also give meaningful PvP?
Eh, you are completely missing the point. PvP is not about the game, it is about the players. It is what makes the MMO - MMO. If there is not competition - in fact any competition is PvP, it is a singleplayer game. For me GW2 is a singleplayer game with some arenas, a battleground, but in general - a solo RPG. And TW3 or DS are far better RPGs.
That sounds like some serious sociopath behavior, to want to kill people because there are people around you. Seek Help.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
There are plenty of Perma-Death, Full Loot Open World PvP Survival MMO's out there, like Ark, Rend, Rust, Day Z, etc... some doing quite well.
Are there actual perms death modes in them? I didn’t know that if true. Not that it matters though the progression is vastly different than an mmorpg which is the main issue I think.
I know Day Z is perma death by default.
Ark has a "Hard Core" mode, which is Perma Death.
No Clue about the others.. and to be honest, if it does not have Perma Death, than it's simply not a Survival Game in my mind, it's just another pointless PvP MMO.
Well your mind is wrought with all kinds of crazy so it’s all good.
Ponder this.. if you can't really die.. how can you call it a game of survival?
If you really die, how can you call it a game? YOU seek help.
pvp is one thing, already a a niche (one i like tho) fool loot, next thing, a nice in a niche. 3rd step, perma death, that's a niche in a niche in a niche :P
why people make em? same reason there is kebab with garlic sauce, even tho i don't like it, some people do.
there will always be niche games, be happy about it, for some years, we only had non niche mmos, and all copied WoW... booooorrriiiiiing.
and one of the most successfull nichegames is still eve online, running for 15++ years now. so please, don't say they don't work, bc they do
you don't have to like everything, understand that, and you understand why devs do what they do. :>
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
See that is the main problem with all these PvP MMO's, killing players is the same as killing NPC's, basically, you are killing each other as nothing more than a pointless grind for the sake of grind.
No End, No Meaning, No Reason to PvP it other than to kill each other.
Unless there is a end goal, a way to win, the whole game becomes nothing more than a sociopath playground of killing purely to kill, which is why all these games quickly get filled with gankers and trolls.
This is also why MOBA's, BR,. and Arena games are popular, the PvP has a purpose, there is a meaning behind the fight.. even if it is nothing more than to simply win the match, there is at the very least that end goal.. at some point you will win or lose.
In these PvP MMO's you can never really win, and you can't really lose. so you end up killing other players simply to kill them, making PvP no different than a PvE grind.
Even games like DAoC, with facation wars, the PvP still ended up being killing each other for the sake of killing each other, as there was no way to actually win or lose.
Some games like GW2 for example, had WvW which had week long matches with Winners and Losers, and that gave meaning to the PvP, not only in rewards, but each team had a score and a place, and wins and looses would move you up and down the roster. This was a form of meaningful PvP, a reason to fight.
I know Crowfall is planning to expand on this idea.. wonder what other games also give meaningful PvP?
Eh, you are completely missing the point. PvP is not about the game, it is about the players. It is what makes the MMO - MMO. If there is not competition - in fact any competition is PvP, it is a singleplayer game. For me GW2 is a singleplayer game with some arenas, a battleground, but in general - a solo RPG. And TW3 or DS are far better RPGs.
That sounds like some serious sociopath behavior, to want to kill people because there are people around you. Seek Help.
I like chess and poker too. Did not see dead bodies after the game We just drink beer.
This is my point, See in a game of Chess, there is a point to the conflict, to win the game.
In the MMO's you play, there is no point to the PvP, you are simply attacking people to attack them, in an endless cycle of pointless, purposeless violence for the sake of violence.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
There are plenty of Perma-Death, Full Loot Open World PvP Survival MMO's out there, like Ark, Rend, Rust, Day Z, etc... some doing quite well.
Are there actual perms death modes in them? I didn’t know that if true. Not that it matters though the progression is vastly different than an mmorpg which is the main issue I think.
I know Day Z is perma death by default.
Ark has a "Hard Core" mode, which is Perma Death.
No Clue about the others.. and to be honest, if it does not have Perma Death, than it's simply not a Survival Game in my mind, it's just another pointless PvP MMO.
Well your mind is wrought with all kinds of crazy so it’s all good.
Ponder this.. if you can't really die.. how can you call it a game of survival?
If you really die, how can you call it a game? YOU seek help.
I get that you are trying to witty, like this is some kind of jab or what have you, but really, but playing up being deliberately obtuse about the fact that we are talking about games here, just makes you look stupid.
But keep on keeping on I guess..
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
There is no such thing as meaningful PvP in an MMO.
All PvP in a MMO is nothing more than pointless petty digital violence to other players, the only time PvP can have meaning, is in PvP campaigns where a Side can Win, and that winning has an impact.
That's what I want to see changed.
Although, some PvP games have a little meaning to it. UO, for example, was your loot. Some say that's a simulation of the Feudal Age or Wild West, but it's not because killing the bad guys doesn't stop them, they are more like the Undead overrunning the game world. But then, the good guys are like undead too, or maybe like souls being tormented in hell. lol
See that would be fun pvp. You as a warrior must fight the undead until you die and become one. Then you fight the living until you perish, your soul being free to enter a body and pick up the fight against the undead. Each side could have different classes who become more powerful the longer they survive. The more powerful enemies are a bigger target. Probably couldnt make a full game of it, but naybe a side-game or mod.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
There are plenty of Perma-Death, Full Loot Open World PvP Survival MMO's out there, like Ark, Rend, Rust, Day Z, etc... some doing quite well.
Are there actual perms death modes in them? I didn’t know that if true. Not that it matters though the progression is vastly different than an mmorpg which is the main issue I think.
I know Day Z is perma death by default.
Ark has a "Hard Core" mode, which is Perma Death.
No Clue about the others.. and to be honest, if it does not have Perma Death, than it's simply not a Survival Game in my mind, it's just another pointless PvP MMO.
Well your mind is wrought with all kinds of crazy so it’s all good.
Ponder this.. if you can't really die.. how can you call it a game of survival?
If you really die, how can you call it a game? YOU seek help.
I get that you are trying to witty, like this is some kind of jab or what have you, but really, but playing up being deliberately obtuse about the fact that we are talking about games here, just makes you look stupid.
But keep on keeping on I guess..
No, dipshit, the real problem is when you jump into a thread it goes to shit because you don't stay on topic, you don't have discussions and instead just throw your opinions around like facts. It's obnoxious and pointless to attempt any real discussion with you so I just have fun with it instead.
There is no such thing as meaningful PvP in an MMO.
All PvP in a MMO is nothing more than pointless petty digital violence to other players, the only time PvP can have meaning, is in PvP campaigns where a Side can Win, and that winning has an impact.
That's what I want to see changed.
Although, some PvP games have a little meaning to it. UO, for example, was your loot. Some say that's a simulation of the Feudal Age or Wild West, but it's not because killing the bad guys doesn't stop them, they are more like the Undead overrunning the game world. But then, the good guys are like undead too, or maybe like souls being tormented in hell. lol
See that would be fun pvp. You as a warrior must fight the undead until you die and become one. Then you fight the living until you perish, your soul being free to enter a body and pick up the fight against the undead. Each side could have different classes who become more powerful the longer they survive. The more powerful enemies are a bigger target. Probably couldnt make a full game of it, but naybe a side-game or mod.
GW2 did something like this for their Halloween Event. Where players would start out living, and then if they got killed they would become undead wraiths hunting and killing the other living players... till the timer ran out.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
GW2 did something like this for their Halloween Event. Where players would start out living, and then if they got killed they would become undead wraiths hunting and killing the other living players... till the timer ran out.
I loved this mini-game.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
See that is the main problem with all these PvP MMO's, killing players is the same as killing NPC's, basically, you are killing each other as nothing more than a pointless grind for the sake of grind.
No End, No Meaning, No Reason to PvP it other than to kill each other.
Unless there is a end goal, a way to win, the whole game becomes nothing more than a sociopath playground of killing purely to kill, which is why all these games quickly get filled with gankers and trolls.
This is also why MOBA's, BR,. and Arena games are popular, the PvP has a purpose, there is a meaning behind the fight.. even if it is nothing more than to simply win the match, there is at the very least that end goal.. at some point you will win or lose.
In these PvP MMO's you can never really win, and you can't really lose. so you end up killing other players simply to kill them, making PvP no different than a PvE grind.
Even games like DAoC, with facation wars, the PvP still ended up being killing each other for the sake of killing each other, as there was no way to actually win or lose.
Some games like GW2 for example, had WvW which had week long matches with Winners and Losers, and that gave meaning to the PvP, not only in rewards, but each team had a score and a place, and wins and looses would move you up and down the roster. This was a form of meaningful PvP, a reason to fight.
I know Crowfall is planning to expand on this idea.. wonder what other games also give meaningful PvP?
Eh, you are completely missing the point. PvP is not about the game, it is about the players. It is what makes the MMO - MMO. If there is not competition - in fact any competition is PvP, it is a singleplayer game. For me GW2 is a singleplayer game with some arenas, a battleground, but in general - a solo RPG. And TW3 or DS are far better RPGs.
That sounds like some serious sociopath behavior, to want to kill people because there are people around you. Seek Help.
I like chess and poker too. Did not see dead bodies after the game We just drink beer.
This is my point, See in a game of Chess, there is a point to the conflict, to win the game.
In the MMO's you play, there is no point to the PvP, you are simply attacking people to attack them, in an endless cycle of pointless, purposeless violence for the sake of violence.
It's the exact same point "to win the game."
The game being the combat between two opponents.
However, an mmorpg is a bit different than a game of chess. The sole purpose of chess is to beat your opponent. You aren't getting loot, you aren't getting territory control or control of resources.
Which is, I bet, a part of the conflict in an mmorpg. However, if the game has battlegrounds or some such things then "yes" the purpose is to "win the game."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
This is my point, See in a game of Chess, there is a point to the conflict, to win the game.
In the MMO's you play, there is no point to the PvP, you are simply attacking people to attack them, in an endless cycle of pointless, purposeless violence for the sake of violence.
It's the exact same point "to win the game."
The game being the combat between two opponents.
However, an mmorpg is a bit different than a game of chess. The sole purpose of chess is to beat your opponent. You aren't getting loot, you aren't getting territory control or control of resources.
Which is, I bet, a part of the conflict in an mmorpg. However, if the game has battlegrounds or some such things then "yes" the purpose is to "win the game."
Thats a cood point. Every battle can be won. The war might rage on (otherwise the game would end) but things are still won in online pvp. It might not be real-life treasure, but you win or lose pride, confidence, territory, time, etc. People lose patience all the time in these games. Too bad they can’t win some of that, lol. To say nothing is won or lost is a little disingenuous imo.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Give players the ability to fight each other, they'll fight over resources, over loot, over pride, over identity... even over nothing at all.
Creating content takes a ton of people and time. That's why most indy MMOs are sandbox - developers build the tools, players bring the content (themselves.)
I mean, take a guess how many people it takes Ubisoft to build one of their games with 2-3 "main" storylines + hundreds of side quests and other little pieces of curated content.
There are plenty of Perma-Death, Full Loot Open World PvP Survival MMO's out there, like Ark, Rend, Rust, Day Z, etc... some doing quite well.
Are there actual perms death modes in them? I didn’t know that if true. Not that it matters though the progression is vastly different than an mmorpg which is the main issue I think.
I know Day Z is perma death by default.
Ark has a "Hard Core" mode, which is Perma Death.
No Clue about the others.. and to be honest, if it does not have Perma Death, than it's simply not a Survival Game in my mind, it's just another pointless PvP MMO.
Well your mind is wrought with all kinds of crazy so it’s all good.
Ponder this.. if you can't really die.. how can you call it a game of survival?
If you really die, how can you call it a game? YOU seek help.
I get that you are trying to witty, like this is some kind of jab or what have you, but really, but playing up being deliberately obtuse about the fact that we are talking about games here, just makes you look stupid.
But keep on keeping on I guess..
No, dipshit, the real problem is when you jump into a thread it goes to shit because you don't stay on topic, you don't have discussions and instead just throw your opinions around like facts. It's obnoxious and pointless to attempt any real discussion with you so I just have fun with it instead.
But keep on keeping on I guess...
Let me hold your hand here.. this is a discussion about PvP, and why it is in Games. I am on topic with my points, you on the other hand have added nothing to this discussion because not only do you lack the ability to rationally counter any point I have made, you also you lack the coping skills to handle the truth of what I am saying.
But kudos to admitting you lack the skills for a discussion and have opted to be nothing but a pissant troll, would explain why you like pointless purposeless PvP games that cater to your mindset.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
This is my point, See in a game of Chess, there is a point to the conflict, to win the game.
In the MMO's you play, there is no point to the PvP, you are simply attacking people to attack them, in an endless cycle of pointless, purposeless violence for the sake of violence.
It's the exact same point "to win the game."
The game being the combat between two opponents.
However, an mmorpg is a bit different than a game of chess. The sole purpose of chess is to beat your opponent. You aren't getting loot, you aren't getting territory control or control of resources.
Which is, I bet, a part of the conflict in an mmorpg. However, if the game has battlegrounds or some such things then "yes" the purpose is to "win the game."
Kudos, a thought out response.
Lets use Chess. Two players sit down to a game of Chess, at some point, one of them will win, one of them will lose, or they will be so evenly matched, they will stalemate.
A stalemate is where neither player can win the game, at which point, they re-start the game and see if they can win this time.. but the goal here, is to Win.
Now in a lot of MMO's, you start the game with a Stalemate. You can't win the game and you can't lose either, at best you can just trade pieces on the board, which will get instantly replaced.
Imagine how boring a game like that would become for the players. imagine sitting at a chess board, stuck in an endless cycle of trading pieces. Sure, I took your pawn, you took my knight, then I took your castle and you took my pawn.. look at us fighting.. at first it might even be fun.. the thrill of the fight.. but that does not change the fact that is is nothing more than a game of conflict for the sake of conflict, since no one can win and no one can lose, it will go on forever, and ever, and ever... until at least one of the players get bored and leaves.
When that happens the remaining player will just cry they have no one to play with.
Without that Win Mechanic, the PvP is just people killing each other for the sake of killing each other. Conflict for the sake of Conflict.. purposeless pointless violence purely for the sake of violence in and of itself.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Lets use Chess. Two players sit down to a game of Chess, at some point, one of them will win, one of them will lose, or they will be so evenly matched, they will stalemate.
Yeah if you win one chess game you win The Chess game Then you can go and kill few people in a cheap PvP MMO. Just hide the bodies, as the police may be concerned.
You obviously do not play chess, or even understand the nature of the game, and I have neither the patience nor crayons to explain this to you. Leave the higher level discussions to the adults, please, and maybe go entertain yourself with some mindless PvP in Linage 2 or something.. unless you started to suck at that game too.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
Although, some PvP games have a little meaning to it. UO, for example, was your loot.
Some say that's a simulation of the Feudal Age or Wild West, but it's not because killing the bad guys doesn't stop them, they are more like the Undead overrunning the game world. But then, the good guys are like undead too, or maybe like souls being tormented in hell. lol
Once upon a time....
The reason full loot works with the aspects you mentioned is because no matter how much you die or are looted, if you don't get better, y0u can turn around to your crafter or merchant and resupply yourself instantly with damn near everything u lost so really all you lost was the little bit of pve/crafting time.
For pvp or learning the game it usually take some massive prep to get your kit ready for some hard core pvp action; pots, bandages, ore, leather, wood, food, regs, spare mounts, tricks of the trade like bolos an such, and of course gold. All of that is pve sure you may have to defend while doing it but a smart player will never loose more then two or three nodes/ mobs worth of stuff
It's true that some players left for EQ's 3D world. But many more left, even before EQ, because of the rampant PKing overrunning the game.
The numbers prove it, and the Lead Designer, Raph Koster has said it. That UO lost a huge number of players because of the rampant PKing, known because that's what people said as their reason for leaving.
Once upon a time....
No End, No Meaning, No Reason to PvP it other than to kill each other.
Unless there is a end goal, a way to win, the whole game becomes nothing more than a sociopath playground of killing purely to kill, which is why all these games quickly get filled with gankers and trolls.
This is also why MOBA's, BR,. and Arena games are popular, the PvP has a purpose, there is a meaning behind the fight.. even if it is nothing more than to simply win the match, there is at the very least that end goal.. at some point you will win or lose.
In these PvP MMO's you can never really win, and you can't really lose. so you end up killing other players simply to kill them, making PvP no different than a PvE grind.
Even games like DAoC, with facation wars, the PvP still ended up being killing each other for the sake of killing each other, as there was no way to actually win or lose.
Some games like GW2 for example, had WvW which had week long matches with Winners and Losers, and that gave meaning to the PvP, not only in rewards, but each team had a score and a place, and wins and looses would move you up and down the roster. This was a form of meaningful PvP, a reason to fight.
I know Crowfall is planning to expand on this idea.. wonder what other games also give meaningful PvP?
fool loot, next thing, a nice in a niche.
3rd step, perma death, that's a niche in a niche in a niche :P
why people make em? same reason there is kebab with garlic sauce, even tho i don't like it, some people do.
there will always be niche games, be happy about it, for some years, we only had non niche mmos, and all copied WoW... booooorrriiiiiing.
and one of the most successfull nichegames is still eve online, running for 15++ years now. so please, don't say they don't work, bc they do
you don't have to like everything, understand that, and you understand why devs do what they do.
:>
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
In the MMO's you play, there is no point to the PvP, you are simply attacking people to attack them, in an endless cycle of pointless, purposeless violence for the sake of violence.
But keep on keeping on I guess..
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
It's also potentially never ending content.
Give players the ability to fight each other, they'll fight over resources, over loot, over pride, over identity... even over nothing at all.
Creating content takes a ton of people and time. That's why most indy MMOs are sandbox - developers build the tools, players bring the content (themselves.)
I mean, take a guess how many people it takes Ubisoft to build one of their games with 2-3 "main" storylines + hundreds of side quests and other little pieces of curated content.
But kudos to admitting you lack the skills for a discussion and have opted to be nothing but a pissant troll, would explain why you like pointless purposeless PvP games that cater to your mindset.
Lets use Chess. Two players sit down to a game of Chess, at some point, one of them will win, one of them will lose, or they will be so evenly matched, they will stalemate.
A stalemate is where neither player can win the game, at which point, they re-start the game and see if they can win this time.. but the goal here, is to Win.
Now in a lot of MMO's, you start the game with a Stalemate. You can't win the game and you can't lose either, at best you can just trade pieces on the board, which will get instantly replaced.
Imagine how boring a game like that would become for the players. imagine sitting at a chess board, stuck in an endless cycle of trading pieces. Sure, I took your pawn, you took my knight, then I took your castle and you took my pawn.. look at us fighting.. at first it might even be fun.. the thrill of the fight.. but that does not change the fact that is is nothing more than a game of conflict for the sake of conflict, since no one can win and no one can lose, it will go on forever, and ever, and ever... until at least one of the players get bored and leaves.
When that happens the remaining player will just cry they have no one to play with.
Without that Win Mechanic, the PvP is just people killing each other for the sake of killing each other. Conflict for the sake of Conflict.. purposeless pointless violence purely for the sake of violence in and of itself.
You obviously do not play chess, or even understand the nature of the game, and I have neither the patience nor crayons to explain this to you. Leave the higher level discussions to the adults, please, and maybe go entertain yourself with some mindless PvP in Linage 2 or something.. unless you started to suck at that game too.