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General 'STO is disatisfactory' thread.

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  • BadgeOfHonorBadgeOfHonor Member CommonPosts: 6
    Well, today makes a nice round 10 times that I've emailed Perfect World to get an explanation. Nothing. It really is hurtful.
  • DeivosDeivos Member EpicPosts: 3,692
    wyodragon said:

    Star Trek Online is developed by Cryptic Studios, creators of the massively successful City of Heroes and City of Villains. It’s built on the Cryptic Engine, a core technology that means our designers can focus less on a game’s nuts and bolts and more on creating a game that captures Star Trek’s essence, guaranteeing that both longtime fans of Star Trek and people new to the universe will feel at home.

    false statement city of heros and city of villians was made by NC SOFT cryptic had little to do with the game as far as building it or designing it if they did why would they bring out a game to try to match it called champions online??

    Just to clarify this part. Cryptic developed the engine for Champions Online out of the defunct Marvel Universe Online. After selling their CoX property to NC Soft, Cryptic bought license to Champions ip from Hero Games to develop Champions Online. At this time 2K was acting as the publisher, but they withdrew from that position by Atari doing a takeover of Cryptic.

    It was during Atari's ownership that two major things happened. One is that Champions online was rushed towards release when the Cryptic Engine wasn't remotely complete, forcing the game as well to launch in an incomplete state. The second thing was that Atari pushed immediate development of Star Trek Online using that very same incomplete engine with a short development window. This lead the game to have many problems.

    Atari further pressed Cryptic by issuing them the development of Neverwinter. That title was not completed before Atari ran into issues with the development of multiple their D&D titles they had been working on, leading Cryptic to be sold off to Perfect World along with the developer's titles and ip rights. This would also be why Neverwinter ended up with a longer development cycle, as PW actually gave them more leniency in revising the engine and game to fix what they could and make it more feature complete before launch.

    A lot of the problems with the games mechanically stems from Atari overloading and rushing Cryptic to complete multiple projects at once when they weren't a particularly large studio. These issues are legacy ones, that Cryptic can not fix without gutting the games developed using the Cryptic Engine and revising the whole thing for a relaunch.

    Safe to assume that will never happen, and a lot of the bugs and quirks have been minimized over time, but anything that remains players kind of have to live with.

    The rest of it would end up being a matter of player preference in the direction the games have taken as well as the service that Cryptic and PW has delivered since then.

    I have no personal opinion to share on that stuff. Just wanted to clarify the situation as it pertained to the development of the three games on the Cryptic Engine.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

  • BadgeOfHonorBadgeOfHonor Member CommonPosts: 6
    Baker's dozen emails to Perfect World and not even an automated reply. Very hurtful. But they don't care.
  • foppoteefoppotee Member UncommonPosts: 106
    [quote="baddmoonrizin;c-13476898"]@seaofsorrows I'm not saying be silent. Hell, I agreed with the majority that the BOFFs and Tardigrade should've been account-wide unlocks. I'm glad that the vocal protests about those items resulted in Cryptic making a change. And don't worry about angering me personally. I do my best to keep any of this forum business from being personal. I just know that some of the stuff being said about Cryptic's marketing lean towards borderline, if not out right, criminal accusations, and that just isn't going to fly in this forum. So, like I was saying, don't like it, don't buy it, but the accusations need to stop. If you don't agree with the way a certain item is being marketed, fine, say something. By all means, speak up. It obviously made a difference here. But we can't go that step further with the over the top accusations, though. That's all I'm saying.[/quote]

    1) we don't know if our "vocal protests about those items resulted in Cryptic making a change".

    2) "And don't worry about angering me personally."  I've felt your reasoning when asking about if the new Upgrading now Binding items is a new feature under the patch notes section, which if it is a feature that's where it should be mentioned, only to get the cute animated jail bars from you.  "File a bug report."  I will & I suggest all affected by it to do so but that's usually a treadmill as well.  Not going to worry about your anger nor wrath from my experience your ego suits this duty.

    3)"criminal accusations" is your falsehood.  Many of us are questioning the marketing tactics & a holding back then giving what was already planned approach is not criminal lol it is a tried & proven technique.  It may not be ethical or consumer friendly, but calling that criminal is over the top itself.

    4)"It obviously made a difference here."  & that is the question whether it did or not, we'll not know, so your best advice of, "don't like it, don't buy it" is spot on but don't conflate criminal activity with any negative dissent just to erase any valid concerns & questions.

    I'm positive we all want to support a game we enjoy playing, but possibly being lied to seems to be the trend these days with gaming companies towards their players/customers & we don't want it with STO.  Try to engage with the STO community not just control.


    So Cryptic just released another Discovery pack & it seems most players/customers are less than thrilled with the pay the same or more but for less content so Cryptic initially made changes to the pack making items that had been previously account wide unlock to per character unlocks then an up-roar of dissent & then Cryptic white-knighted & made them to account wide unlocks.

    The question is was that Cryptic's plan all along since they didn't add anything more to the pack & the pack is lean in content compared to previous packs.  It still seems like good quality but just less of it.

    Then after the patch & patch notes today a "bug" where now Upgrading items automatically Binds them to that character which you didn't know until it was done.  Cryptic hadn't officially responded to this nor clarified whether a "bug" or an intended feature which wasn't mentioned in the patch notes. 

    Many are not too happy with the pack, but the ignoring this newest "bug" inquiries has led to this exchange which is 1 of many where the Community Moderator of the forums likes to squash any negative dissension.  
  • foppoteefoppotee Member UncommonPosts: 106
    [quote="baddmoonrizin;c-13477060"]I'm tagging @nommo#5819 because it's his list that I'm answering, but I'm not singling him out. This info is good for anyone.
      
      1) Uh, yeah we do know. The evidence is seen right there in the changes that were made to the account-wide unlocks and discount for those who had already purchased the Starter Pack after all the protestations.
      
      2) So, you want to discuss moderation? Why? So that we can go round and round and derail the thread? This is why we don't discuss moderation. If you have a problem with me and how I do my job, please, contact Kael. And honestly, that goes for anyone.
      
      3) The terms "shady" and "bait and switch" and "unethical" and other such terms do border on criminal accusations. No one has any evidence to support such accusations, just their own feelings on the matter. All of this falls within the definition of flaming against Cryptic, as the accusations amount to insults against how they do business. The EP was even named in some posts as being guilty of this. You don't like how they market a product? Fine, speak up and/or don't buy. But don't come to this forum and hurl insults and accusations. It's flaming and will be dealt with as such.
      
      4) Again, the evidence that it did is right there. A product was presented. People protested. Changes were made. If you "feel" like something else is/was going on, that's on you, but there is no evidence to support your "feeling" on the matter. All it does is serve to stir up more discontent and negativity with such conspiracy theories.
      
      You want to support the game? Great! But you don't do that by insulting and accusing the devs of being underhanded and lying. You want them to engage more with the community? Great! They actually want to, but how about you be more positive in the way that YOU engage with the community? There are ways of expressing displeasure without being combative and insulting and making unfounded accusations.
      
      At the end of the day, I'm just trying to preserve the peace.[/quote]

    1)  What would've been impressive is after breaking a precedent of previously account-wide unlocks initially only being once per a character with this pack then Cryptic waiting & changing back to the precedent would've been an explanation & same for the Starter Pack discount.  Was it just an over-sight easily explained or was there some intent?  It is a valid question & the mere reaction of the changes after the concerns are voiced don't signify evidence neither way it just shows their was a reaction.

    2)  I will state I have little concern with your moderation whether I agree or disagree.  I look at it as your yard your advantage, but just like I've previously sent you when you've censored if you included the example(s) & the why it would benefit possibly you in the long-run & me & any one else you "edit" or "delete".  Not only punitive but educational too, but I also understand that might require more effort/work

    3)  Now parsing words with "border on criminal" instead of just "criminal".  " Fine, speak up and/or don't buy. But don't come to this forum and hurl insults and accusations."  Just like in 1) up above just because it was changed to what I, & I think many seem more favourable, doesn't mean we wouldn't mind knowing why this sequence of events happened like this.  Yes, we don't have to know which is very true but I'd think when asked that would be an opportunity to engage with the community discussing any & all positives or negatives & reasons why.  I have to show my ignorance here, what is that title "EP"?  Did I target this "EP"?  

    4)  "Again, the evidence that it did is right there. A product was presented. People protested. Changes were made. If you "feel" like something else is/was going on, that's on you, but there is no evidence to support your "feeling" on the matter. All it does is serve to stir up more discontent and negativity with such conspiracy theories."  The only evidence is that there was a change.  That change doesn't prove or disprove yours, mine, or anyone's suspected intent of why the change happened.  Again, an engagement of discussion probably would've been beneficial citing any reasoning, that can build confidence right there.

    "I'm tagging @nommo#5819 because it's his list that I'm answering, but I'm not singling him out. This info is good for anyone."  
    "You want to support the game? Great! But you don't do that by insulting and accusing the devs of being underhanded and lying. You want them to engage more with the community? Great! They actually want to, but how about you be more positive in the way that YOU engage with the community? There are ways of expressing displeasure without being combative and insulting and making unfounded accusations."  

    I do think you are singling me out here, so you're saying one thing then doing another, but I don't mind that.  I think your big capitalized "YOU" makes that pretty clear.  I also think if you glance through-out my posts, even of this particular incident & pack I've made positive remarks in the past, presently, & in the future if allowed.  Perhaps they're just not up to your standard, BMR, but I have made positive remarks so please recheck.  I try to find a balance with positive & negative because I think both are valuable.  It is true I have no evidence if I think Cryptic changed back what had been normal account-wide unlocks & the reasoning why?  What I have is my speculation.  A change occurred, & I think for the better, but that change isn't proof one way or the other & stating such is unfounded.  I'm not privy to any insider info. so I can't just, "ask" & get a direct answer like you.  

    "There are ways of expressing displeasure without being combative and insulting and making unfounded accusations."  I agree & it is something I always have to work-on, maybe all of us, but I'd definitely ask you to do the same too since what I'm reading I don't think your following your own advice.  You're the Community Moderator.  

    Overall, I'm just glad with the outcome so far.  The tardigrade combat pet is a perfect example.  Some have already bought, maybe multiple, & even though it has been said it will be account-wide given this incident, & for me it is more about the sequence of events involved with the incident not the pet, I wouldn't buy this pack until it actually changed to account-wide compared to buying with fingers-crossed, but that's just me.  A lot of subjectivity comes with typed words versus vocally discussing things.  As a consumer though buying something like this pack has precedent to other previous packs so we naturally compare & weigh the value then decide.  What clears this up are accurate details in the descriptions & when there are concerns/questions getting responses even if we don't like the response.  I do think this would've gone a lot smoother as a released pack if it had been released with account-wide unlocks from the get go like previous packs.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,540
    I think the Universal Translator broke on this necropost.  :p
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